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Answers To Curing Anhedonia/numbness/apathy, No. 1


itstrevor

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Question: if I try licorice, should I go for the candy variety (say I find some good quality ones without too many additives) or for the tablets?

This said, I am realizing that being worried about anhedonia may be just another problem added to the stack.

Therefore, in the next few days, I want to see if I can stop feeling bad about it.

I have a lot of regrets for 15 years of my life lost, I have a lot of anxiety about not being able to ever get out of it, and I may obsess and over analyse my thoughts and sensations and in general being a drama queen (hello handsup...)

I did enough CBT to be able to handle that, so, even if I can't feel good or even ok, I want at least to feel flat and neutral.

I will allow myself to think about anhedonia only in a constructive way.

If I freak out, my attempts at getting rid of anhedonia will be less effective.

Not to mention that the physical stress caused by the rumination and anixety over the anhedonia might actually be a perpetuating factor. I wonder how effective behavioral activation in combination with mindfulness might be with the condition? Not the westernized variant but the 'Thich That Nanh' version of using various techniques aimed at bringing attention gently to the present moment.

You said you already did CBT, but did that contain also the behavioral activation component? IT is specifically aimed at alleviating anhedoina and, as General failure already mentioned (albeit slightly exaggerated is often the most effective component of treatment.

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anhedonia in a nutshell is the inability to experience euphoria. I do sometimes wonder if the only effective medications are the euphoriants. We will see.

I can't help but think that I gave you this idea. I was under the impression that my condition is anhedonia, and since my condition in a nutshell is the inability to experience euphoria, I thought the same goes for anhedonia. But now I understand I'm not anhedonic.

I can't know what you are experiencing, maybe you can't experience euphoria, but remember that you lack emotions. Inability to cry - what has that got to do with euphoria? Inability to be afraid? Inability to be excited? Inability to feel amused? What do those have to do with euphoria?

If that is true - that in anhedonia the intensity of emotions is diminished - then I don't see how could it be opioid related. I guess if you take opioids you do feel euphoria, but it's no cure since that's not what you're lacking. Or am I wrong? Go test it, get some OTC cough suppressant that includes codeine and see what happens.

Edited by Vieno
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CBT for ANHEDONIA? Most EFFECTIVE treatment? LOL....

If you really want to waste your money (and if you're stupid enough), you might as well blow it on this useless "therapy". Do you want to lose hundreds of dollar's just so someone can tell you "so what are your goals? write down this... that, etc.. how does this make you feel? how does that make you feel?" when you can't feel in the first place, and goals mean nothing to you since there's no reward?

Oh god...

Edited by handsup
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CBT for ANHEDONIA? Most EFFECTIVE treatment? LOL....

If you really want to waste your money (and if you're stupid enough), you might as well blow it on this useless "therapy". Do you want to lose hundreds of dollar's just so someone can tell you "so what are your goals? write down this... that, etc.. how does this make you feel? how does that make you feel?" when you can't feel in the first place, and goals mean nothing to you since there's no reward?

Oh god...

relax dude, I was referring to BA as being the most effective component of CBT treatment. However, it is pretty well known that in severe depression, BA is slighlt more effective than Antidepressants in the short run, and significantly more effective in preventing relapse/recurrences than meds, so yeah...

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as for licorice I tried it. Someone warned that it was nasty in the beginning but would get better. I didn't see that warning before trying.

I think anxiety increased some what. I think it lowers free testosterone but I am not sure about serum(?) levels.

I think I am already on too much crap that increases prolactine and lowers dopamine. Therefore lowing testosterone doesnt seem that

tempting. Licorice seems indicated at so called hypoadrenal states.

We've "been through" this before but I'll send the link with the somewhat cocky topic again regarding "adrenal fatigue".

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_nutrition/the_truth_about_adrenal_fatigue

Regarding therapy. I don't know if it's helpful but I can really relate to chinese Daoism and Zen buddhism in this state.

If one wants to make it easy for oneself Alan Watts audiotapes should be easy to obtain. Actually what lead me into this was a book

Of Bruce Lee. It was back at 17 and the books intro was mainly about Zen as well as the outro. That was basically the interesting part.

While not being on drugs I somewhat used some form of DBT-therapy at myself by thinking out contradictions or what one might call absurd. That sort of thinking helped automatise non-inhibitation or at least create some shortcircuit in the brain which was somewhat helpful overcoming certain "akward" social situations.

Though I am actually sceptical about therapies that involves thinking. Maybe it was just my disposition which made me "think" that way and therefore act. I don't believe in so call "free will". And I am not alone believing that.

CBT as handsup stated with what I know of it doesn't seem reliable. I respect the behaviour part of it. It probably works in situation of phobias. Exposing oneself for this or that but if some therapy would ask me now "What are your goals" I would probably end up answering "no goals as a goal" , then follow up with "mu" and afterwards "I send you the bill" and go away. Not to say I would even go there.

Regarding opioids. IT'S NOT ABOUT using opioids to treat anhedonia. They are probably effective in depression, no doubt. But it most likely lead to INCREASED anhedonia and less sexual interest in general. That's the effect of what might be a somewhat pro-opioid drug that is Mirtazapine. I would say it makes me a bit more autistic. Even less interested in meeting people. And it wouldn't surprise me if the Valdoxan killed of that last libido as well. I've been careful not to blame it because of it so called non-side effects but agonising melatoninergic receptors in itself I think reduce testosterone. However I am on 5 drugs so it's hard to tell but still.

And yes about OPIOIDS, it's about INCREASING the opioid-RESPONSE if anything, not stimulating opioid receptors. That seems to be one of the effects of methylphenidate. Except for that Dopaminereuptakeinhibitation with perhaps some release as well. Or maybe it transports dopamine backwards as well as illegal drug.

There's no wonder why it works. Though this suck I think I rather start to decrease things instead of augmentating with Ritalin. Not to say that my new doctor or maybe even old one would prescribe it.

Edited by General_Failure
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Another thing which beats me is so called natural and unnatural rewards. If one for instance is into programming and solves a problem and the result is presented on the monitor. Like for instance game programming. What kind of mechanism is involved then ? Is there something like natural hedonism, sex, food, exercise and then there's some "emotional" or intellectual "hedonism" ? I can't imagine that one get's opioid release by doing something "Intellectual" ?

Or what about gaming in general ? Reaching a new level? Increasing one's virtual gold. Though I've heard about some pre-heroinist who compared World of Warcraft with illegal drug it still beats me. I've been into serious gaming myself when I was younger and though derealized and slightly anhedonic I got stuck with games until I beat them at the hardest level.

I read some about dopamine and opioid,, that they were reinforcing each other at Ventral Tegmental Area. Though it's very elaborating

something tells me that dopamine and likely opioid is involved in "artifical" rewards and opioids

Though after copulation prolactinlevels rises and dopamine get's lower that's why I fittingly used to say that being on SSRI was like feeling "constantly recently fuxked". Maybe that's where one should look if one suffers from Tardive SSRI. low dose cabergolide might work.

I am sorry for being a bit fabulating and eventually it just end up being mental mastrubation. But still.

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handsup is an *****.

CBT brought me out of deep depression, suicidal thoughts and drama queen mode.

Didn't do for anhedonia, but if now I am able to tackle it is just because I am still alive.

Plus, I spent no money whatsoever on it: downloaded a couple of books and went through free online do-it-yourself treatments.

handsup, you may want to consider that the prime artificer of your misery is you.

I used to think exactly like you do, to complain and whine like you do, and it's just because it's easier to vent drama than actually to take responsibility for your condition and risk to fail.

Have you noticed how half of your complaints is about reassuring yourself that there can't possibly be any way out?

This way you don't have any responsibility, you don't have to do anything.

This is the only reason you write in this forum: to legitimize your fear to fail.

**** you handsup.

I might as well try to feel alive and fail miserably, I have an eternity to be dead anyway.

@sc2: Interesting.

Never heard of the behavioural activation thing. Could you tell me more?

I also have no clue about the "Thich That Nanh".

I practiced mindfulness for a good while but then interrupted because it wasn't making much difference in my life.

Still, I learned a lot through it.

I'll probably end up with licorice capsules, it's easier to control the dosage.

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You paid hundreds of dollars just to talk to someone... so they can talk about "goals" and other stupid b.s ... lol, congrats and cool story bro. I think it's stupid.. but it does work for depression.. but NOT for anhedonia... good ****ing damn people, USE YOUR BRAINS... anhedonia is purely physiological... how the hell can CBT relieve anhedonia? LOL.

CBT is going to give your emotions and humanity back? LOL... let that sink into anyone's head who's actually considering CBT for anhedonia.

And books..... BOOKS/?!?!??! LMAO... dude, you are so delusional... how the hell can BOOKS give my humanity back? Do you understand what you are saying????

Dude..... I think this is the most stupidest post I have EVER read in my whole entire life.... and I think "stupidest" is too kind of a word. I'm sorry, but I literally cannot take someone serious when they say reading books solves problems...

You're right... you can keep trying... but we know the end result anyways.

---


Anyone who has anhedonia is basically screwed. They are simply missing out on life, and there's practically nothing they can do.... you can try for years and years to find a cure, but while you're trying to find a non-existent cure, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and years are gone forever... and there's not a single thing you can do about it.

Our lives suck... it's a fact, and whether anyone chooses to ignore the facts is up to them.

For me personally, I'd rather just end this nightmare than spending 24/7 of my time to "cure" brain damage (from taking SSRI antidepressants), because you can't cure brain damage.

Edited by handsup
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^^ Try every dopaminergic drug type: reuptake inhibitor, precursor, releasing agent, agonist etc. If nothing works, try every other drug type. I guess brain damage can't be cured without surgery that doesn't exist yet, but some of the many drugs out there is probably capable of compensating for whatever dysfunction is going on in your brain.

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I have the impression that handsup has sort of given up, so there's not much advice that you can give him really. I have already voiced my opinion that my anhedonia has fallen out of the realm of psychological remedies and now requires intervention. My depression/anhedonia is sort of like the weather - it is unpredictable for the most part and does whatever it decides to do apart from what is going on in my life or whatever attitudes I employ about things. Of course, I try to be positive, keep busy, set goals, see friends, maintain relationships, etc., but my depression/anhedonia persists. I try my best not because I think that I will get better doing it, but because I know that not trying will make it worse. Of course I try not to think about the anhedonia, but I don't think that it is possible to just forget about it.

In short, I think that I need something pretty powerful to get me out of this. I did try licorice root for a while, but I didn't feel any different. The reason I started licorice root was because I read one anecdotal report that it worked for somebody, but that's it.

Here is my Parnate Update for 3/3/2013 (Day 6):

I took 20mg of Parnate today. No different. No notable side effects; no insomnia, no hypotension, no stimulation, no changes in libido, no boost in mood, no real changes in blood pressure, nothing. There is no orthostatic hypotension; I can go from sitting down to standing up without feeling any sort of dizziness. I was a bit tired yesterday, but today I don't feel tired. I think that so far, Parnate has given me the least side effects out of any medication I have taken so far. I think that if someone had given me Parnate by slipping it in my drinks every day, I would not be able to tell I was taking anything and would go about my day as usual. Not even the placebo effect is suggesting that there is any difference. My moods still dip low and I still feel incredibly numb. I sincerely hope that this medication will actually do something in the days/weeks to come.

Edited by itstrevor
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Trevor, you've said previously that you're already preparing for living with anhedonia, that if Parnate and ETC don't work then that's it for you. But I think there are options to consider. You have probably been right from the beginning that it's a dopaminergic problem. So like I suggested to handsup, why not to try every different type? Have you tried any releasers yet (in addition to adderall, which possibly failed due to cross-tolerance)? How about L-DOPA? You were interested in that at some point. If you're broke, I can mail it to you for free, it's the OTC form. How about agonists, like pramipexole? Sorry if you've mentioned these, I haven't read most of the past 10 pages.

Another thing that I might consider as an anhedonic would be total stress removal for a loooooong time. Just an idea - I don't know if it would work, I definitely don't mean to say that all you need to do is relax, no. But here's the idea: go to Maledives and do nothing for a year (okay, choose a more cost-effective place). I hear they cure buzzing of ears that way. I'm serious: if all the drugs fail, something like that could be tried next. If anhedonia is as bad as you say, then I can't understand how could you live with it. I can't live with my condition. Didn't Sapolsky say that after being under stress for a long period of time, stress hormones may continue to secrete even after the stress is gone? Sounds like nervous system overtraining. Even after you stop training your body continues to be ****ed up, but if you take it really easy for half a year, you start to see some improvement and eventually your body becomes normalized.

It's late here and I'm heading to bed, but I'll tomorrow check some PMs I never responded to... many things have changed for me personallyy since I actively contributed here. I can understand anhedonia much better now that I don't feel obligated to match my experience to yours.

Edited by Vieno
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I'm not so sure that anhedonia is really a condition that can simply be explained by a "dopamine deficiency," but I do think that extra dopamine can treat the symptoms more effectively than alot of other strategies. It is possible that anhedonia results from an overactivity of a part of the brain that in turn causes an underactivity of the VTA and Nucleus Accumbens (see the discussion we have had about imaging studies earlier in the thread). Sometimes extra serotonin might turn down the overactive brain regions, but also dampens the reward circuitry. Both opioids and dopamine trigger the reward circuitry, and their circuits are sort of intertwined.

I think that someone told me that the usual effective dose of Parnate is 30-50mg, and that it usually takes around 2 weeks to work. I still have a little while to go before giving up on Parnate obviously, but I have high hopes. I'm not sure where to turn if ECT does not work out though. Maybe DBS? Maybe Ketamine? I don't know.

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I think that even though the symptoms feel entirely physiological with the anhedonia being some kind of veil cutting you of from the world around, irrespective of your attitude and thought processes, it is still important to adress the psychological and behavioral part of the condition. At the psychological level, people like trevor and handsup are convinced they have some kind of brain damage or dysfunction. Obviously, this is a deeply disturbing and depressing belief in it itself, irrespective of if it is true or not. Employing an attitude like handsup is definitely not going to help. My intuition is that, , just like with panic attacks, the monitoring of the condition, and reinforcing feedback loop about the symptoms is a perpetuating factor. So that the suffering consists of the condition itself and the attitude one employs towards the condition. This means that at the very least suffering can be reduced by accepting the condition, for now. Hopefully this might then also lessen the intensity of the symptoms, due to reduced physical stress caused by these distressing beliefs. If one accepts that stress ultimately caused the condition, why then is it so hard to accept that (perhaps semi-conscious) stress is also a perpetuating factor? Put another way, what is the presumed exact pathological mechanism here and what kind of evidence supports that?

From a behavioral point of view I think it is important that besides taking medications one involves himself in potentially rewarding situations and tries also to cultivate a sense of pleasure and reduce feelings of stress. From that viewpoint, I think Vieno makes an excellent suggestion to go to the Maladives or some such thing.

Anyway just food for thought.

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OCD is another disorder which is supposely related to overactive of anterior cingulate cortex. One of those areas is supposely

area 24. I tend to get 25% above average while doing a strooptest and that is after taking Clomipramine, Clonazepam and probably also mirtazapine. Though it was a test for military personal recruitment. I don't know what kind of people who is actually into that sort of things at least here. MAO-B levels is supposed to increase during stress but I doubt anyone would recover by low dose Selegiline anyway.

I still think that opioid-receptor hyposensitivity is involved in anhedonia. Though the mechanism of action is sometimes speculative regarding Wellbutrin. For instance at some studie it accentuated the decrease of dopaminelevels in nucleus accumbens when taken into conjuction with Haldol but that Dextroamphetamine attenuated it. One can not exclude nicotinine-antagonism as well.

Suffice to say at least Wellbutrin worked somewhat here though increasing anxietylevels more than Methylphenidate and of course being less effective. Sure there's sign of "hyperactive" circuits but the drugs is as selective as a nuke despite SSRI-marketing as SELECTIVE serotonin reuptake inhibitation. DBS seems more to the spot but more intrusive. It's not like I prefer running around with the brain filled with batteries. Sadly in this new society all responsibility falls on the indiviual. If it wasn't for all specialization then people would probably never had to outsource all jobs to those countries which can by sweatshopish behavour provide them cheaper.

Moving back the jobs would keep the technical competence in the country higher and yes it would cost more but considering how much money people spend on gadgets it would be a more sustainable solution not saying that I like the technical approach at all but when the whole infrastructure is dependent on it as well as import it's hard to just ignore the facts.

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handsup is an *****.

CBT brought me out of deep depression, suicidal thoughts and drama queen mode.

Didn't do for anhedonia, but if now I am able to tackle it is just because I am still alive.

Plus, I spent no money whatsoever on it: downloaded a couple of books and went through free online do-it-yourself treatments.

handsup, you may want to consider that the prime artificer of your misery is you.

I used to think exactly like you do, to complain and whine like you do, and it's just because it's easier to vent drama than actually to take responsibility for your condition and risk to fail.

Have you noticed how half of your complaints is about reassuring yourself that there can't possibly be any way out?

This way you don't have any responsibility, you don't have to do anything.

This is the only reason you write in this forum: to legitimize your fear to fail.

**** you handsup.

I might as well try to feel alive and fail miserably, I have an eternity to be dead anyway.

You paid hundreds of dollars just to talk to someone... so they can talk about "goals" and other stupid b.s ... lol, congrats and cool story bro. I think it's stupid.. but it does work for depression.. but NOT for anhedonia... good ****ing damn people, USE YOUR BRAINS... anhedonia is purely physiological... how the hell can CBT relieve anhedonia? LOL.

CBT is going to give your emotions and humanity back? LOL... let that sink into anyone's head who's actually considering CBT for anhedonia.

And books..... BOOKS/?!?!??! LMAO... dude, you are so delusional... how the hell can BOOKS give my humanity back? Do you understand what you are saying????

Dude..... I think this is the most stupidest post I have EVER read in my whole entire life.... and I think "stupidest" is too kind of a word. I'm sorry, but I literally cannot take someone serious when they say reading books solves problems...

You're right... you can keep trying... but we know the end result anyways.

---

Anyone who has anhedonia is basically screwed. They are simply missing out on life, and there's practically nothing they can do.... you can try for years and years to find a cure, but while you're trying to find a non-existent cure, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and years are gone forever... and there's not a single thing you can do about it.

Our lives suck... it's a fact, and whether anyone chooses to ignore the facts is up to them.

For me personally, I'd rather just end this nightmare than spending 24/7 of my time to "cure" brain damage (from taking SSRI antidepressants), because you can't cure brain damage.

Do you want to be happy handsup?

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@Vieno: I think the chemical interactions in our brain are too complex and too poorly understood (for now) to be so deductive.
Even psychiatrists are supposed to understand a lot of it, and I am frankly losing respect for the category.
At least for now, I prefer to follow annedoctal evidence, which sucks but allows me to explore a wider range of options.
@itstrevor: I have no difficulty to believe that anhedonia is largely biological.
I for one usually feel helpless.
But I second sc2: I think the psychological part cannot be ignored.
Whatever treatment you try, you will be able to better analyze and understand your condition if you can keep your psyche solid.
Plus, if you are less negative it's an improvement by itself.
I have a lot of regret for the many years of my life that I burned to depression and anhedonia, I have a lot of insecurities and often despair; I suffer from social anxiety and freak out at the idea of getting old without living.
I envy to the point of resenting people that are social and happy and seem to enjoy everything.
But those are not physiological, and tackling them gives me a far more solid base to work on the anhedonia.
I also don't want to think about anhedonia unless it is something constructive.
In short, I can't feel good, but doesn't mean that I have to feel bad.
Anyway.
I don't have much hope for the licorice, but trying takes no effort.
I want to take a week off of Lithium (still feeling some minor withdrawal) and to get better control of my psychological situation, then I will start with anhedonia.
My mood fluctuates more than usual, possibly because of the lithium interruption, but at the same time I am forcing myself to control the low swings and during the up swings I almost feel like I can feel.
I also managed to build a rather stable life around me, and it helps a lot to cope with everything.
Today I felt almost good.
Edited by forse
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@itstrevor

I know it's complex but dopamine seems to be involved. Could be that at the core there's something different, like glucocorticoids, but that dopaminergic dysfunction is sort of a symptom and targeting it also effectively treats the symptoms. You didn't exactly answer to me. Why not try all the different dopaminergics? Ketamine is a great idea, totally forgot. Methoxetamine is probably still legal in the US, go for it. Trying won't hurt. You also didn't comment my stress relieving idea.

I know less about anhedonia's physiology than you guys. But nobody of us knows enough to know what exactly helps: therefore, we need to experiment. So let's make a list:

Dopamine reuptake inhibitors

  • Methylphenidate
  • Amphetamines
  • Coc4ine
  • Methiopropamine (OTC)

Dopamine precursors

  • L-DOPA (OTC)
  • Tyramine (OTC)

Dopamine releasers

  • Amphetamine
  • Methamphetamine
  • Khat (cathinone)
  • Desoxypipradrol (OTC)
  • Methiopropamine MAYBE (OTC)

MAOIs

  • Natural supplements like Rhodiola Rhosea and extracts of green tea, olive leaf etc. (all OTC)
  • Antidepressants like Parnate

Dopamine agonists

  • Pramipexole
  • Ropinirole
  • and many others

Ketamine and the likes

  • Ketamine
  • Methoxetamine (OTC, still legal in many countries)
  • Dextromethorphan (available OTC in cough syrups, not a sustainable option but worth trying)

+ Psychedelics and cannabinoids often work for many things. illegal drug is everywhere and many research chemical psychedelics like 5-MeO-Dalt and alphamethyltryptamine are available OTC.

@sc2

It's impossible to avoid stress when fighting a disease. Considering the situation in which Trevor is - really strong anhedonia for a long time - I'd be more worried if there were no signs of stress :) Stress relievement may work, but it's not wise to focus on keeping stress at minimum level while at the same time running at doc's getting prescriptions - the equation is impossible. It's probably good to avoid stress in general, but until all the medications are trialled, I think the focus is better to be on them, not on stress. I do think that there's potential to the Maledives thing, some with anhedonia have found relief after dedicating to yoga for six months or something.

Go through all the meds, just avoid excess dosages of neurotoxic chemicals to avoid worsening the problem. Then, if every ****ing drug out there as well as all there ETC, DBS etc. things fail, then go to the Maledives. ****, organize an anti-anhedonia vacation. Get together and head to some cheap place, I can arrange a Finnish lakeside cabin and sauna for you!

Edited by Vieno
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@forse

I know it's complex and I'm all for anecdotal evidence. That's a big reason to go for dopaminergics. And what about ketamine? I don't know why it works for anhedonia, but it seems to do that. Anecdotes all the way. We know s***loads of drugs, they target all kinds of brain mechanisms. Some of them must do something for anhedonia. So if the science doesn't give answers, then trialling is the way to go.

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@Vieno: indeed.

But first I want to try the lass damaging stuff.

Then I will start studying brain chemistry and join the discussion.

BTW, if istrevor has been on a long time with anhedonia, what should I say after 15 years of it? =P

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@Forse, you should read these stories: http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Have-Anhedonia/48444 =D

I don't know your situation at all, I haven't read your previous messages, not trying to instruct. Just saying that giving up is the stupides thing one can do. Oh but maybe anhedonia is just a neglible nuisance ;)

My philosophy is that if a disease is preventing one from being happy, then there's absolutely nothing I wouldn't do to try to treat it. Well, I suppose moral stops me from hurting others. But I would do anything to me. For example, treating anhedonia may require illegal drugs. This involves the risk of getting caught. But what's worse - being with anhedonia or being in jail? What's the difference?

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Yeah it is a shame that the condition is so poorly understood. I wish they would do more studies on the naturalistic course of anhedonic symptoms and that more trials would evalute outcomes on anhedonia as a seperate outcome.

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@Handsup

Dude, you have two choices.

You go get your act togheter, for real this time. Not these "mood swings" .. Even tho I can't call them like that because you claim to have no emotions.

Or you have the guts to end it.

I'm sorry that I might sound rude, but seriously man.. Self-pity isn't gonna get you anywhere. If you are crying and whining so much that you want to get better then you don't stop trying.

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You guys aware of the following study?

Anterior cingulate cortex γ-aminobutyric acid in depressed adolescents: relationship to anhedonia.

In this study they found a pretty significant correlation (0.50) of GABA levels in the Anterior cingulate cortex and self reported anhedonia scores, suggesting that low levels of GABA are implicated, specifically in anhedonia. Moreover their results showed that only patietns with major depression WITH anhedonia had lower levels of GABA than controls. The group of paitetns with major depression withouth anhedonia had relatively normal GABA levels. Even though thhis is just an observational study, the results are quite striking.

Now gaba is a neurotransmitter that is involved in anxiety. More specifically, benzodizepines produce they anxiolityc effects by raising the level of GABA in the brain. unfortnunately, the design of this study doesnt allow much interpretation as the results could indicate that anhedonia caused anxiety and the other way around, or that they have a shared cause.

Nevertheless, it is something to keep in mind. I will keep looking in to this

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amongst other things this could have implications for people who have been using benzo's for a long time, but it might also explain why itstrevor felt somewhat better (i think) on his Xanax. Care to comment?

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