Jump to content

Answers To Curing Anhedonia/numbness/apathy, No. 1


itstrevor

Recommended Posts

Opioids has been brought up. Conclusion:

At least partial mu-opioid buprenorphine may be interesting. Once in a while someone report good effect from Kratom.

Another approach would be using a kappa agonist (due to some inverse relationship between kappa and mu-opioid receptors). Therefore theoretically kappaagonism would upregulate mu-opioid receptors.

Things like

Ibogaine, Salvia divinorum has been brought up (actually someone in this thread has used it. It seemed helpful but can't recall if there really was any effect regarding anhedonia.).

Another approach might be blocking mu-opioid receptors by using naltrexone. I am unsure if that leads to muR-upregulation.

The thing I like with MJ indica is feeling relaxed and the intensifying of emotions (which is mostly flat). It's really not like it brings in passion and enthusiasm (Ritalin did that for me). In my case not even for social interaction (Wellbutrin did that) but likely the opposite.

After this ca 2.5 fluoxetine(+ 5 mg escitalopram and 2,1 g sarcosine) things has been somewhat better. Despite being apathetic in general there seems to have been some mental activation i. Maybe it's another example of a "wired but tired" state but better than being "unwired".

As I won't get Ritalin prescribed and happens to be allergic to Wellbutrin there's basically just one change I am considering. Adding 5 mg selegiline. If that doesn't work I consider it a FIA and go on like this, maybe spicing it up with random illegal drug once in a while and buy viagra or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I don't actually care if anyone responds, but I want someone to respond"

Ger.. so familiar that feeling. like shining a flashlight in an abyss; with nothing to reflect on how do you know it makes light? only if someone else out there sees it and tells you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have mixed feelings about MJ... most of times its like analogy said, "paranoid, VERY socially anxious (not talking AT ALL around strangers), and gave me an annoying, dumbed-down". I hate feeling stupid, being aware that what ill be doing wont be as good as it could be and that i might very well mess up. On the other hand, sometimes it does actually increases emotions, enjoyment and libido, if theres no one around to make me paranoid. I have just simply given up on it, mustve been 3 years or so, i think its safe to say it makes people dumb and de-motivated

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MJ can definetely enhance rewarding activities such as food, sex , music. But it also tend to make me confused and paranoid which reduce reward. I know mj is a cannabinoid but it also have a cascade of effects on other things also. It is a weak kappa agonist like salvia but not as strong obviously. This may be responsible for the confusion, dissociation and paranoia thst it can produce. It also enhance 5ht2a function, this could be responsable for the increase in reward and emotions.

From what i understand 5ht2a activation can enhance reward and emotions but will not really makes you motivated. I guess dopamine is the real player here for making you motivated. But still you can feel motivated without getting much emotions or reward....so complex the brain is and all these differents systems all interact and affect each others.

5ht2a activation does not produce hallucinations and if you think psychedelic drugs produce hallucinations you clearly know nothing about them. Also psychedelics do a lot more than just 5ht2a activation. Some 5ht2a agonist are not psychedelic at all. Also enhancing 5ht2a receptors wont produce hallucinations to anyone normal. It may be dangerous for schizophrenics however.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm thinking about it, actually yeah dmt can produce hallucinations when smoked, but its kinda in its own class of drugs. Normal psychedelics like lsd, illegal drug, etc wont really make you hallucinate unless mayb you take extremely high doses. They will mostly distort your visions, colors, thoughts and emotions. You can see some patterns of shape and colors especially if you have your eyes closed but no one will see a giant spider walking on the wall or things like that. Deliriants will do that but they arent psychedelics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great news! I always like to hear about success with unconventional treatments. Its always a good thing to think outside the box and not always follow the path doctors want you to follow. Do you have any idea how acupuncture reduce your symptoms? By reducing stress? What kind of supplements are you taking?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What improvements are you noticing Trevor? Are you still taking the drug free mindful route?

I see gradual improvements that are not notable day-to-day, but more like month-to-month. I get periods of high blunting and irritability that precede a "window" of emotion or "release." I think that after the provided time frame I will be in pretty good shape, and already I would say things are definitely adequate and livable and not anywhere near the endless torturous all-enveloping irritability and numbness that I am unfortunately familiar with. I feel that there is a slow build up to windows that occurs, but that the time between each window will decrease and the intensity of windows will increase. I commonly feel relaxed enough to doze off and sleep, which is nice - a simple pleasure that can be emulated with the use of benzodiazepines, but luckily for me, this is not necessary. I enjoy food to a greater degree than before.

What I think a lot of people feel is "missing" in anhedonia is that sort of fuzzy tickly feeling of the reward center in the brain - if that makes sense. Normally, there would be a cascade of this sensation with a rewarding situation, but this is blunted in anhedonia. What I am feeling in my baseline is things reaching that "reward threshold" and giving me those feelings, but not a total "let loose" "release" "full" cascade. Sometimes I get the release fully more-or-less - I call these times "windows."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 July added 5mg selegiline

Sarcosine 2,1 mg 18th of july

Escitalopram like 2 months

Fluoxetine 2,5 mg 20th of july

Selegiline 5 mg. 28 th of july per advice from my cyberdoc, Sadly he didn't recommend trying Wellbutrin SR to bypass XR allergy. Not even antihistamics was recommended,.

In general I trust DRI action more as Pramipexole didn't do other giving me tics under the right eye. But what to do with docs involved in some powertrip congratulating themselves for the bravery of denying patients psychostimulants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how many of us, pre anhedonia, were the type of people who could find enjoyment with the smallest of things. The kind of people that didnt need a lot to be content. I remember learning in a high school psych class that the type of people who sky dive, ride fast motorcycles, and do other high thrill things, have a higher level of dopamine, and people who don't really care for the high thrill, have lower levels of dopamine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how many of us, pre anhedonia, were the type of people who could find enjoyment with the smallest of things. The kind of people that didnt need a lot to be content. I remember learning in a high school psych class that the type of people who sky dive, ride fast motorcycles, and do other high thrill things, have a higher level of dopamine, and people who don't really care for the high thrill, have lower levels of dopamine.

I was both. I could find beauty and enjoyment sitting and watch the wind blow through the trees, but I also loved a good thrill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fresh news (15 July), Tianeptine has been proved to be active at the opioid receptors

http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v4/n7/full/tp201430a.html

looks like someone has interest in not letting it land on the US market, considered the late "rebranding" from SSRE to NMDA modulator.

personally ive found very low bi-weekly doses of kratom extremely relieving: nervousness and edginess are smoothed, appreciation increased and cognitive function unaltered.

Edited by nostromo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am wondering if my anhedonia may be permanent or not. Though I realize that the author of this topic said that, based on his research, anhedonia tends to resolve around 3 years depending on how severe it is, I am wondering if this depends on the situation as well though and whether the situation I am in will cause my anhedonia to be permanent (or will last much longer than 3 years--perhaps even decades). First off, my anhedonia is at the worst possible level of severity in which I have no windows at all. If I were to give my ability to experience pleasure a rating on a scale of 0-10 (0 being absolutely nothing and 10 being my normal self), I would give it a 0. This anhedonia is chronic (there all the time 24/7 everyday). So based on this level of severity, would you still say that it would resolve around 3 years?

Aside from the severity, one also has to consider the situation. So based on the situation I am in that I am now going to explain, would you still say that my anhedonia will resolve? And what would your guess be on how long it will take to resolve based on both the level of severity and the situation? Here is the situation I'm in:

This anhedonia is something that happened as a result of me having a severe panic disorder as a result of phobic thoughts being a constant part of my daily life. I have a phobia which is a fear of me speeding. Therefore, knowing that the Earth is constantly speeding causes me to feel like I am constantly speeding in a car in my mind which is what was causing me constant panic. I also have a phobia of being in situations I cannot escape from. Therefore, there are also other thoughts that are a part of my constant daily life which cause me constant panic such as that the ground is everywhere and that no matter where I go, the ground is always there and I can never escape that situation. As you would know with phobias and such, you cannot use logic to reason your way out of them which is why that, despite the fact that I already know the Earth speeding and the ground being there are very important things and are just a normal part of life, that does not ease the fear at all.
When I experienced as many as 3 episodes of panic in 1 minute and the panic did not seem to stop, I made the realization that this is something that is likely not going to stop and might continue almost all throughout the day each day (though it could be something true or could be false). But this is a risk that my mind was not willing to take and decided to completely shut down my fear caused by all of these different thoughts as a defense mechanism to prevent the panic from happening. But in doing so, it obviously had to shut down my ability to experience pleasure as well for some reason. Whether this is a defense mechanism or not and is instead a physiological change in the brain as a result of stress (or perhaps both of these things combined) is something I do not know. But what I do know is that if this is a defense mechanism, it is always there protecting me and preventing me from ever taking the risk of being in a situation of either experiencing panic in general, or having many panic attacks all throughout the day each day.
At first when I made the realization that the panic might not stop, I became very depressed and this depression was also there with the anhedonia. But when I had the depression, I still had the ability to experience pleasure at the time and my ability to experience pleasure was only very mildly suppressed at the time and I was able to experience many moments of pleasure. However, my depression did get better and I was expecting that my ability to experience pleasure would also get better. But when my depression has fully recovered, I was actually left with complete anhedonia. It would seem that, in this case, there was an inverse relationship between my depression and anhedonia for some strange reason. I notice that as I got out of this depression and became more calm and relaxed, my ability to experience pleasure went down. So clearly, there is something going on here in which there are two opposing functions in my brain in which as the function in the brain responsible for feeling calm and relaxed goes up, the function in my brain responsible for experiencing pleasure goes down. I thought that exercise would help regain my ability to experience pleasure. But no matter what intensity or how long I exercise each day, this only increases my ability to feel calm and relaxed and causes my ability to experience pleasure to go down as a result. I am now left feeling completely calm and relaxed with no ability to experience pleasure whatsoever 24/7.
If this anhedonia is a defense mechanism, it is there all the time 24/7 preventing me from experiencing the fear. If this anhedonia were to be completely gone right now or even ease up, that would cause all my panic to return and I would be back into being in a near constant state of panic. I noticed that when there were brief moments when I had the depression with the anhedonia in which both of these things went down, the panic would return. But now that my depression is gone, the anhedonia is there all the time and there are never such moments in which it ever goes down. This anhedonia is also not taking the risk of getting better because that would obviously take the risk of having all my panic return. So how is it ever going to get any better now?
Is this anhediona, despite the fact that it is severe and chronic, something that will pass on its own just like how all my previous moments of depression and chronic depression in my life have passed? Or is this not the case and is something completely different than depression that no amount of focus on other things and such can recover and that the only way of getting better is that if I were to be comfortable with having these panic attacks because I'm thinking that depression and anhedonia, in this case, ease up when you are comfortable with something and no longer view it as a problem? So in other words, is the only way for me to get better is for me to feel comfortable facing my panic attacks, or will my ability to experience pleasure recover on its own anyway even if I never feel comfortable? I have the strong will and determination to face my panic in order to get out of this anhedonia. But am I true or false in saying that as long as you are not comfortable facing these panic attacks which is how I feel, you can have all the will and determination in the world and it won't do anything and that you can even address this issue through medication and everything else, but that won't do anything either as long as I am not comfortable having these panic attacks?
Therefore, I feel that this might never get better since I don't think it will ever be possible for me to feel comfortable in a situation in which I am experiencing many panic attacks each day or even few. You might be thinking that if I were to treat the panic and the panic eases up, then I will feel more comfortable and that will cause this defense mechanism (anhedonia) to ease up. But I am treatment resistant in terms of panic disorder and it is something that never gets better. And if I am somehow treatment resistant in terms of anhedonia (despite the fact that I was never treatment resistant in terms of depression and have completely gotten over many moments of depression in my life), then this makes the situation much worse. Therefore, will my anhedonia ease up anyway despite the fact that the panic never gets better and that I never feel comfortable having these panic attacks? Since the mind is a very complex organ, then does that make this situation more complex in that my mind can somehow significantly or completely recover the ability to experience pleasure while still fully suppressing my fear?
Again, I am really thinking that this is a defense mechanism rather than a physiological change. If it is a defense mechanism, then I am that much more worried that it will never get better since it is always there protecting me from ever being in a situation in which I am having the panic (since, again, I never feel comfortable having panic and even having many panic attacks each day for that matter). But if it is just a physiological change, then I would feel less worried since the author of this topic said that it is something that resolves around 3 years.
Edited by MattMVS7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I'm down to 25mg sertraline now.. Looking to take every other day next week then stopping. I have been taking the supplements and vitamins advised in the book The Way up from down by Priscilla slagle .

I am seeing huge improvements everyday. I'm cracking jokes without thinking.. I'm noticing girls more. I went bowling with friends last night and had a great time.

I am avoiding caffeine and sugar and drinking once a week but being careful.

This is someone who was so hopeless and bored of life month ago they felt suicidal. I can only recommend you give the book a read.. It's free in pdf format online. It hasn't cured the anhedonia completely yet but I'm seeing improvements all the time at a dramatic rate. I am truly starting to enjoy life again and I've got no doctor or therapist who has seen me to thank for it.. Only the lady who wrote that book

Edited by smithci
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What improvements are you noticing Trevor? Are you still taking the drug free mindful route?

I see gradual improvements that are not notable day-to-day, but more like month-to-month. I get periods of high blunting and irritability that precede a "window" of emotion or "release." I think that after the provided time frame I will be in pretty good shape, and already I would say things are definitely adequate and livable and not anywhere near the endless torturous all-enveloping irritability and numbness that I am unfortunately familiar with. I feel that there is a slow build up to windows that occurs, but that the time between each window will decrease and the intensity of windows will increase. I commonly feel relaxed enough to doze off and sleep, which is nice - a simple pleasure that can be emulated with the use of benzodiazepines, but luckily for me, this is not necessary. I enjoy food to a greater degree than before.

What I think a lot of people feel is "missing" in anhedonia is that sort of fuzzy tickly feeling of the reward center in the brain - if that makes sense. Normally, there would be a cascade of this sensation with a rewarding situation, but this is blunted in anhedonia. What I am feeling in my baseline is things reaching that "reward threshold" and giving me those feelings, but not a total "let loose" "release" "full" cascade. Sometimes I get the release fully more-or-less - I call these times "windows."

I realize that you are someone who has done research regarding anhedonia and such and I suffer from anhedonia. Although I could just simply talk to others here and get their advice, I need an expert opinion on this situation I'm in and if my anhedonia will get better (or even perhaps go away since I have completely gotten over many depressive moments in my life). And you are the only one I feel that I can turn to because, although the advice given by others is helpful, I require an expert scientific analysis of my situation and conclusion as to whether my anhedonia will get better or perhaps eventually go away.
I am wondering if my anhedonia may be permanent or not. Though I realize that you said in your topic that, based on your research, anhedonia tends to resolve around 3 years depending on how severe it is, I am wondering if this depends on the situation as well though and whether the situation I am in will cause my anhedonia to be permanent (or will last much longer than 3 years--perhaps even decades). First off, my anhedonia is at the worst possible level of severity in which I have no windows at all. If I were to give my ability to experience pleasure a rating on a scale of 0-10 (0 being absolutely nothing and 10 being my normal self), I would give it a 0. This anhedonia is chronic (there all the time 24/7 everyday). So based on this level of severity, would you still say that it would resolve around 3 years?
Aside from the severity, one also has to consider the situation. So based on the situation I am in that I am now going to explain, would you still say that my anhedonia will resolve? And what would your guess be on how long it will take to resolve based on both the level of severity and the situation? Here is the situation I'm in:
This anhedonia is something that happened as a result of me having a severe panic disorder as a result of phobic thoughts being a constant part of my daily life. I have a phobia which is a fear of me speeding. Therefore, knowing that the Earth is constantly speeding causes me to feel like I am constantly speeding in a car in my mind which is what was causing me constant panic. I also have a phobia of being in situations I cannot escape from. Therefore, there are also other thoughts that are a part of my constant daily life which cause me constant panic such as that the ground is everywhere and that no matter where I go, the ground is always there and I can never escape that situation. As you would know with phobias and such, you cannot use logic to reason your way out of them which is why that, despite the fact that I already know the Earth speeding and the ground being there are very important things and are just a normal part of life, that does not ease the fear at all.
When I experienced as many as 3 episodes of panic in 1 minute and the panic did not seem to stop, I made the realization that this is something that is likely not going to stop and might continue almost all throughout the day each day (though it could be something true or could be false). But this is a risk that my mind was not willing to take and decided to completely shut down my fear caused by all of these different thoughts as a defense mechanism to prevent the panic from happening. But in doing so, it obviously had to shut down my ability to experience pleasure as well for some reason. Whether this is a defense mechanism or not and is instead a physiological change in the brain as a result of stress (or perhaps both of these things combined) is something I do not know. But what I do know is that if this is a defense mechanism, it is always there protecting me and preventing me from ever taking the risk of being in a situation of either experiencing panic in general, or having many panic attacks all throughout the day each day.
I am, however, going towards the fact that it is a defense mechanism (that an obsessive thought of me never wanting to take that risk is the only cause of this anhedonia). What has happened to me is that this anhedonia is not something that happened spontaneously or gradually as though it is something resulting from brain damage or an unnatural change in the brain and such. When I was having panic attacks, that panic was allowed at first. But immediately once I made the realization that I could live a life of panic and never or hardly get better and that there is no way I could live and cope with that, that is when my fear and ability to experience pleasure was immediately shut down as though this was an actual defense mechanism to prevent that situation from happening. Furthermore, the fear I had that was caused by these thoughts was shut down, but I am able to have fear regarding other things in life. So my fear in general was not shut down, only my fear regarding these thoughts I felt I could not live and cope with, suggesting that this is a natural defense mechanism in this case to prevent the fear from these thoughts. Also, I feel a strange sensation in my mind as though my ability to experience pleasure is actually being held down (suppressed). A normal person who has no ability to experience pleasure would not feel that sensation. I had that sensation at the time when I had at least a little bit of pleasure. But now that my pleasure is completely gone, I no longer feel that sensation.
Now at first when I made the realization that the panic might not stop, I became very depressed and this depression was also there with the anhedonia. But when I had the depression, I still had the ability to experience pleasure at the time and my ability to experience pleasure was only very mildly suppressed at the time and I was able to experience many moments of pleasure. However, my depression did get better and I was expecting that my ability to experience pleasure would also get better. But when my depression has fully recovered, I was actually left with complete anhedonia. It would seem that, in this case, there was an inverse relationship between my depression and anhedonia for some strange reason. I notice that as I got out of this depression and became more calm and relaxed, my ability to experience pleasure went down. So clearly, there is something going on here in which there are two opposing functions in my brain in which as the function in my brain responsible for feeling calm and relaxed goes up, the function in my brain responsible for experiencing pleasure goes down. I thought that exercise would help regain my ability to experience pleasure. But no matter what intensity or how long I exercise each day, this only increases my ability to feel calm and relaxed and causes my ability to experience pleasure to go down as a result. I am now left feeling completely calm and relaxed with no ability to experience pleasure whatsoever 24/7.
If this anhedonia is a defense mechanism, it is there all the time 24/7 preventing me from experiencing the fear. If this anhedonia were to be completely gone right now or even ease up, that would cause all my panic to return and I would be back into being in a near constant state of panic. I noticed that when there were brief moments when I had the depression with the anhedonia in which both of these things went down, the panic would return. But now that my depression is gone, the anhedonia is there all the time and there are never such moments in which it ever goes down. This anhedonia is also not taking the risk of getting better because that would obviously take the risk of having all my panic return. So how is it ever going to get any better now?
Is this anhediona, despite the fact that it is severe and chronic, something that will pass on its own just like how all my previous moments of depression and chronic depression in my life have passed? Or is this not the case and is something completely different than depression that no amount of focus on other things and such can recover and that the only way of getting better is that if I were to be comfortable with having these panic attacks because I'm thinking that depression and anhedonia, in this case, ease up when you are comfortable with something and no longer view it as a problem? So in other words, is the only way for me to get better is for me to feel comfortable facing my panic attacks, or will my ability to experience pleasure recover on its own anyway even if I never feel comfortable? I have the strong will and determination to face my panic in order to get out of this anhedonia. But am I true or false in saying that as long as you are not comfortable facing these panic attacks which is how I feel, you can have all the will and determination in the world and it won't do anything and that you can even address this issue through medication and everything else, but that won't do anything either as long as I am not comfortable having these panic attacks?
Therefore, I feel that this might never get better since I don't think it will ever be possible for me to feel comfortable in a situation in which I am experiencing many panic attacks each day or even few. You might be thinking that if I were to treat the panic and the panic eases up, then I will feel more comfortable and that will cause this defense mechanism (anhedonia) to ease up. But I am treatment resistant in terms of panic disorder and it is something that never gets better. And if I am somehow treatment resistant in terms of anhedonia (despite the fact that I was never treatment resistant in terms of depression and have completely gotten over many moments of depression in my life), then this makes the situation much worse. Therefore, will my anhedonia ease up anyway despite the fact that the panic never gets better and that I never feel comfortable having these panic attacks? Since the mind is a very complex organ, then does that make this situation more complex in that my mind can somehow significantly or completely recover the ability to experience pleasure while still fully suppressing my fear?
Again, I am really thinking that this is a defense mechanism rather than a physiological change. If it is a defense mechanism, then I am that much more worried that it will never get better since it is always there protecting me from ever being in a situation in which I am having the panic (since, again, I never feel comfortable having panic and even having many panic attacks each day for that matter). But if it is just a physiological change, then I would feel less worried since you said in your topic that it is something that tends to resolve around 3 years.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now as I have read through this topic, I read that melanocortins might be the main reason for anhedonia and my anhedonia as well. Therefore, are there any supplements or anything that can address this issue with the melanocortins?

I've already tried the melanocortin Bremelanotide. It had no effect whatsoever in any dose that I tried subcutaneously.

In a way, anhedonia is a "defense mechanism" preventing overload and probably even seizures due to excessive NMDA overactivity in regions of the brain. This "brake" is bypassed by psychedelics which, consequently, bring upon highly emotional states as well as seizures in some individuals.

I'm still experiencing substantial improvements and expect to feel pretty much "normal" after a year off of all meds, but detachment from the outcome really helps me get rid of anxiety spikes just in case I do not "get what I expected."

Please remember that just because something "increases" endorphins, dopamine, or anything else does not mean much. What is important is that over time, receptor density increases and the brain is able to return to a euthymic state in a sustainable way. A lot of terrible drugs also happen to increase endorphins and dopamine.

Edited by itstrevor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now as I have read through this topic, I read that melanocortins might be the main reason for anhedonia and my anhedonia as well. Therefore, are there any supplements or anything that can address this issue with the melanocortins?

I've already tried the melanocortin Bremelanotide. It had no effect whatsoever in any dose that I tried subcutaneously.

In a way, anhedonia is a "defense mechanism" preventing overload and probably even seizures due to excessive NMDA overactivity in regions of the brain. This "brake" is bypassed by psychedelics which, consequently, bring upon highly emotional states as well as seizures in some individuals.

I'm still experiencing substantial improvements and expect to feel pretty much "normal" after a year off of all meds, but detachment from the outcome really helps me get rid of anxiety spikes just in case I do not "get what I expected."

Please remember that just because something "increases" endorphins, dopamine, or anything else does not mean much. What is important is that over time, receptor density increases and the brain is able to return to a euthymic state in a sustainable way. A lot of terrible drugs also happen to increase endorphins and dopamine.

Thank you for replying to one of my posts. Now could you give your opinion on my previous (albeit, long) post above because I feel that my anhedonia might never get better based on my reasonings in that post.

Edited by MattMVS7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the looks of your post, you are really perpetuating your anhedonia due to the amount of thought you are putting into potential negative outcomes. Perhaps try an SSRI for a little while to make the anxiety go away enough so that you are able to feel comfortable in your own skin (albeit not happy due to blunted emotions), and then slowly taper off of it as much as you can handle without the anxiety returning. Sometimes it is difficult to convince your subconscious self that it is okay to not worry constantly about things, and even better not to. Sometimes it is necessary to reach rock bottom before the message gets across to your subconscious.

I think that healing from this is largely an unconscious thing, and that conscious/subconscious behaviors can simply perpetuate the anhedonia or prolong it, so the best thing to do is to eliminate anxiety spikes. This doesn't mean "not think about things," because in doing so, you are thinking about it and will have a nagging feeling that something hasn't been properly resolved (anxiety). Maybe try tinybuddha.com for further advice on this?

The specter of permanence is something that can perpetuate anxiety, which is really the only reason that it would be permanent in an otherwise healthy individual. Being anxious about it being permanent causes it to become permanent as long as you are anxious about it, and then some time for things to "settle."

If you are having panic attacks, perhaps you have some sort of hormonal, psychotropic use, stress, or physical problem? If left alone, anhedonia resolves. It's not something that you damage and your brain shrinks and is like that forever. There are tons of examples of this, and really, I only started improving once the nagging specter of permanence (anxiety) went away. Now it is really just a waiting game, but I don't wait banking on the outcome that I will get better in X amount of months, but try to live in the moment.

I reached rock bottom so therefore I can appreciate even feeling numb in many ways because it is like a nice rest from the highly anxious self that I was. In not banking my emotional state on an outcome, I eliminate the possibility of anxiety spikes caused by disappointment which can worsen the issue. Again, it might not be possible to convince yourself that it is okay to be anhedonic and you might think "yeah if I could just make myself believe that I am better, than I am better, but I can't just do that," but really you aren't fooling yourself at all, and sometimes you have to reach rock bottom before accepting that you aren't going to feel the best for a while but really and truly small and steady gradual change happens.

When you feel extremely anxious and then get a break from it, you are so relieved that you aren't anxious that being numb for a while isn't too bad

Edited by itstrevor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the looks of your post, you are really perpetuating your anhedonia due to the amount of thought you are putting into potential negative outcomes. Perhaps try an SSRI for a little while to make the anxiety go away enough so that you are able to feel comfortable in your own skin (albeit not happy due to blunted emotions), and then slowly taper off of it as much as you can handle without the anxiety returning. Sometimes it is difficult to convince your subconscious self that it is okay to not worry constantly about things, and even better not to. Sometimes it is necessary to reach rock bottom before the message gets across to your subconscious.

I think that healing from this is largely an unconscious thing, and that conscious/subconscious behaviors can simply perpetuate the anhedonia or prolong it, so the best thing to do is to eliminate anxiety spikes. This doesn't mean "not think about things," because in doing so, you are thinking about it and will have a nagging feeling that something hasn't been properly resolved (anxiety). Maybe try tinybuddha.com for further advice on this?

The specter of permanence is something that can perpetuate anxiety, which is really the only reason that it would be permanent in an otherwise healthy individual. Being anxious about it being permanent causes it to become permanent as long as you are anxious about it, and then some time for things to "settle."

If you are having panic attacks, perhaps you have some sort of hormonal, psychotropic use, stress, or physical problem? If left alone, anhedonia resolves. It's not something that you damage and your brain shrinks and is like that forever. There are tons of examples of this, and really, I only started improving once the nagging specter of permanence (anxiety) went away. Now it is really just a waiting game, but I don't wait banking on the outcome that I will get better in X amount of months, but try to live in the moment.

I reached rock bottom so therefore I can appreciate even feeling numb in many ways because it is like a nice rest from the highly anxious self that I was. In not banking my emotional state on an outcome, I eliminate the possibility of anxiety spikes caused by disappointment which can worsen the issue. Again, it might not be possible to convince yourself that it is okay to be anhedonic and you might think "yeah if I could just make myself believe that I am better, than I am better, but I can't just do that," but really you aren't fooling yourself at all, and sometimes you have to reach rock bottom before accepting that you aren't going to feel the best for a while but really and truly small and steady gradual change happens.

When you feel extremely anxious and then get a break from it, you are so relieved that you aren't anxious that being numb for a while isn't too bad

Now what you said about eliminating anxiety spikes in order to recover from anhedonia, this is not the issue since I have no anxiety whatsoever regarding if my anhedonia will never get better. Rather, the anhedonia is constantly holding off the panic caused by those other thoughts and that unless this anhedonia forever remains there, that will cause the panic to return and that, since I am never comfortable taking that risk, then this is why I feel that it could forever remain there and never get better and never take that risk of ever getting better in the event that it causes my panic to return (which it would). I am, however, having moments of feeling very depressed about this despite the fact that I am calm and relaxed for now. It's not my worrying that this might last my entire life and not get better that is causing my anhedonia to perpetuate, it's that it is not ever taking the risk of getting better in the event that my panic returns which is what is causing my anhedonia to perpetuate. Since I feel that I will never be comfortable with such a risk (and I don't think any human being would ever feel completely comfortable with such a risk either, especially if it means having many upon many panic attacks each day), this is the reason why I feel that it could forever remain there and never get better.

As for using an SSRI for the panic, as I stated in that post, I am treatment resistant in terms of panic disorder and is also something that never gets better on its own and I am also already on SSRI and other anti-anxiety medication. And even if this were to somehow ease the panic despite the fact that I am treatment resistant, there would be no way for me to tell since my anhedonia is always there keeping the panic at a 0 (on a severity scale of 0-10). And I feel that this anhedonia is not going to take the risk of getting better to see if my panic has gotten better in the event that, again, the panic would still return.

As for feeling numb, if I had the choice, I would rather have my full ability to experience pleasure and be in a constant state of panic everyday (including other serious things to happen to me) than to feel numb and have no fear and have no pleasure. I feel that living a life of no pleasure with nothing more than mere thoughts is the worst thing that could happen to someone. If you had the choice to either be a genius with all the intelligence in the world with no ability to experience pleasure or be someone who is very dumb, but has all the pleasure in the world, which would you choose? Some people might choose to be the genius. But as for me, I would choose to be the dumb person and I am going to argue why pleasure is the most important thing here.

When we are faced with any hardship in life, we rely on our ability to experience pleasure to get us through in life. For example, someone with a physical condition would say something to his/herself such as "I may have this debilitating condition, but at least I am still able to enjoy my life." However, when the condition is something that takes away your ability to experience pleasure, that's when it's the worst thing, in my honest opinion.

Also, if you had the choice to either experience a feeling of love or pleasure towards someone or something or to just simply experience nothing more than a thought of pleasure or love towards that person or thing, which would you choose? I'm quite sure you would choose to experience a feeling of love or pleasure which proves here that feelings are far superior to mere thoughts in this case. Therefore, in regards to my question as to whether I would be a genius or a dumb person, I would choose to be the dumb person since feelings of love and pleasure are far superior to any amount of intelligence (intelligence being nothing more than mere thoughts and awareness).

In conclusion, although I said that I felt this anhedonia might not get better for all of my reasons stated, I also asked a question of whether the mind is more complex than that and can somehow fully or significantly recover my ability to experience pleasure while still keeping my fear fully shut down as it is now (in other words, I would have my ability to experience pleasure back, but still have my fear suppressed). Therefore, based on your knowledge and research, is this something likely or even possible to happen?

Edited by MattMVS7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was in depression 7 years. By this time I used anti-depression drugs 4 years.

I stopped it before 2 years and looking for some different ways such self-hypnosis and etc., and wuaalaaaaaaaa IT WORKS very well. :smilingteeth:

Sometimes I have supported my mood with supplements such L-Phenylananine or L-Theanine and I am in a good mood even I have a stress.

Good luck to everybody. Life is beautiful.

iherb_banner_zps26d03974.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...