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itstrevor

Answers To Curing Anhedonia/numbness/apathy, No. 1

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That is interesting I wonder if that's why I look forward to/obsess about sleep so much. Apart from the fact I always feel tired.. Anyway I'm still gonna get some weights done today and hit the treadmill. My third day on 100mg sertraline

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I recall there's been talk about HT-2a receptortype. More so specifically that downregulation of those may contribute to anhedonia. It also seems some or someone have had some success when using psychadelic drugs which works very much with that type. Another one seemed to have had some faith in smoking THC.

I am sceptical however http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23151877 >>

"In summary, our results identified a strong cannabinoid-induced upregulation of 5-HT(2A) receptor signaling in rat PFCx. Our cultured cell studies suggest that selective CB2 receptor agonists upregulate 5-HT(2A) receptor signaling by activation of the ERK1/2 signaling pathway. Activity of cortical 5-HT(2A) receptors has been associated with several physiological functions and neuropsychiatric disorders such as stress response, anxiety and depression, and schizophrenia. Therefore, these results may provide a molecular mechanism by which activation of cannabinoid receptors might be relevant to the pathophysiology of some cognitive and mood disorders in humans."

They of course seems to see HT-2a receptors as all bad. Maybe thats why (imo) like Mirtazapine is still allowed.

>>

may add some substance to those "theories".

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Wow generalfailure! Are you reading my mind or something??? I happen to have been researching about the cannabinoid upregulation of 5ht2a. The 5ht2a receptor seems to be crucial for the emotional experience as all drugs that block it or downregulate it are zombifying. On the other psychedelics can greatly enhance your emotional experience. Who cares what psychiatry thinks about it, i think some have overexpression of it and some others have under expression. Now nothing that exist upregulate 5ht2a, even ect downregulate it and most psychiatric drugs.

Ive read a lot about cannabinoids and they appear to induce strong upregulation via the cb2 receptor. There are 2 cannabinoids receptors, cb1 and cb2. Cb1 is psychoactive, cb2 is not. The 5ht2a upregulation is due to cb2, not cb1. So you need only cb2 activation. Im looking to put my hand on gp1a and will soon get news from it. Gp1a is a strong and selective cb2 agonist and has been found to upregulate 5ht2a. Gp1a has no direct psychoactive effect at all and it is 650x stronger on cb2 compared to illegal drug. I hope i can get it and i surely will try it. I will keep you updated. I am just wondering, would the upregulation be strong enough and would it last?? Well what do i have to lose.

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Well i dont think they sell to 'normal' people only to other scientific. I also wont wait that research is done on that because obviously it wont happen. Psychiatry is all about zombifying people, they certainly wont make any research on how to enhance emotions in people. If you wait that psychiatry find a cure for having no emotions, you will be dead a long time before that happens. They surely know how to blunt emotions tho.

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Hi itstrevor :smile: ,

I have two comments

1. Thank you for creating this topic. Adhedonia is a symptom everyone on depressionforums has experienced.

2. Laughter - I am curious to know whether you experience pleasure when you laugh? If you do, this may provide some evidence that maybe you are not completely adhedonic.

I wish you well, mate.

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I wouldn't say I can laugh but sometimes humour and good funny memories can trigger a smile.. I honestly think if I didn't analyse my feelings so often maybe I'd make some progress but I've no idea how to stop obsessing

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If dopamine agonists are out of the question, are there any dopaminergic supplements worth trying?

For instance, would trying Curcumin, Quercetin or Tyrosine be of any benefit, or would they do more harm than good?

I suspect my root problem is Adult ADHD and comorbid depression.

It sure would be nice if raising dopamine could relieve both my ADHD and PSSD.

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I remember when i was on certain meds that i didn't even care if the roof caved in. I wouldn't have even responded. I recommend this book for anyone who still has a little bit of faith.

A selection of uplifting and inspirational bible devotions from personal life experiences geared towards people who suffer from depression.

A selection of Christian devotions to help with our daily walk in Christ for 30 days. The daily devotions are encouraging, enlightening, and uplifting. Lessons for our everyday life and spiritual food for our walk with Christ. Faith or a lack of, doubt, confusion, depression, anger and feelings of rejection: all these are attacks on the believer. If readers suffer from depression, negativity or discouragement, they can take heart and begin to rejoice. The author shows readers how to change their lives by showing them how to have their faith increased.
C.L. Griffin writes how you can deal with thousands of thoughts that people think everyday and of how to focus the mind the way God intends us to think. And she shares the trials, failures, and ultimate victories from her own life. She shares life-transforming truths--and reveals her thoughts and feelings every step of the way.
If you are depressed right now then this is the book for you. http://www.amazon.com/Dealing-Depression-Daily-Devotions-Griffin-ebook/dp/B004SOZPJA

There is also a free book right now if anyone is struggling with any kind of addiction

http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Addictions-C-L-Griffin-ebook/dp/B00L0E0Z8C/

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ive tried tyrosine and it didt do anything...ive also tried Yohimbe and yohimbine and both did increase energy and gave a slight mood boosting effect but it came at a nasty price..it made me feel very anxious and just agitated..my entire body felt agitated and my blood pressure spiked..

again the first thing many of us need is something activating, something to get us going and interested in life..Welbutrin worked well in this area for about a week or 2 then pooped out..most stims do the same thing, they make life seem much more interesting for a short while but then, effects disappear..like we've already said, getting activated is the first step, next is finding something that fixes the anhedonia part...just thinking about this part makes my head spin as nothing seems to work..

religion has never helped me, in fact it made me question it and life even more..definitely not a help for anhedonia in my experience..

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I think anhedonia is a really broad term. Imo there are two kinds of anhedonia. The depressive anhedonia and the numbness anhedonia. In depressive anhedonia you still have emotions but they are mostly negative. You cant get pleasure because of the overwhelming negativity. The numbness anhedonia has nothing to do with being positive or negative. You are numb and dont react to positive or negative emotions. Whether you are depressed or not its there all the time. Imo the numbness anhedonia is far worse and long standing. Sound like you are more depressed than anhedonic.

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Neuralstem NSI-189

I don't think this substance has been discussed here yet.

-Most current major depressive disorder (MDD) treatments are oral medications that modulate levels of different neurotransmitters in the brain. One class, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), is commonly believed to be the most widely-prescribed type of antidepressants in the world. However, a new theory on major depressive disorder is emerging. It implicates brain physiology in the disease rather than brain chemistry alone. Researchers now know that depressed patients have reduced hippocampal volume. The healthy hippocampus is a rich source of neural stem cells, from which new neurons are generated, making vital new connections throughout life. Neuralstem believes that stimulating the generation of new neurons in the hippocampus could potentially address the pathology of the depression itself.

Phase 1b trials were recently completed and the data will be presented this month.

I know there are group buys on Longecity as well as other places you can get a synthesis of NSI-189

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/58442-nsi-189/

20% hippocampal growth in mice...

http://gizmodo.com/5874433/the-pill-that-could-cure-depression-by-growing-your-brain

Edited by nighthawk37

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Thats why i say there is different kind of anhedonia. Some can feel negative emotions and some others feel nothing at all, positive or negative.

I think having no emotions at all plus problems motivating oneself actually could be apathy as well. However, I know whar you mean. when I was badly depressed my anxiety was numbed too. That is I didnt experience panic attacks or social anxiety. HOwever I did experience loads of ruminative thoughts/cognitive anxiety regarding my condition.

Edited by sc2

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Neuralstem NSI-189

I don't think this substance has been discussed here yet.

-Most current major depressive disorder (MDD) treatments are oral medications that modulate levels of different neurotransmitters in the brain. One class, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), is commonly believed to be the most widely-prescribed type of antidepressants in the world. However, a new theory on major depressive disorder is emerging. It implicates brain physiology in the disease rather than brain chemistry alone. Researchers now know that depressed patients have reduced hippocampal volume. The healthy hippocampus is a rich source of neural stem cells, from which new neurons are generated, making vital new connections throughout life. Neuralstem believes that stimulating the generation of new neurons in the hippocampus could potentially address the pathology of the depression itself.

Phase 1b trials were recently completed and the data will be presented this month.

I know there are group buys on Longecity as well as other places you can get a synthesis of NSI-189

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/58442-nsi-189/

20% hippocampal growth in mice...

http://gizmodo.com/5874433/the-pill-that-could-cure-depression-by-growing-your-brain

More promising future drugs in clinical trials:

Naurex GLYX-13

Naurex NRX-1074

Both have similar action as Ketamine.

http://www.naurex.com/media/NatureNews0113-8.pdf

Here is a site where you can get NSI-189, GLYX-13 and Tianeptine

http://nutraction.com/

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NSI-189 has been a disappointment for most on the longecity thread.

The fact that there is no medication for negative schizophrenia symptoms, which are the carbon copy of anhedonic symptoms, is discomforting to say the least.

Theres plenty of meds for these symptoms that dont even get to phase 2 trials.. again, discomforting

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I don't expect illegal drugs fixing anything which likely safer drug would do (problem is they don't seem to either)

.

And if happens like getting non garden variety sideeffects like depersonalization disorder perhaps Murphys law is comforting.

"If it jams - force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway."

As of drugchanges I increased Escitalopram to 10 mg's a day. I also removed Mirtazapine completely 3 days ago.

It's a lot better despite having sleepingissues. The rest of the junk is of course there and I've become a bit "tame" from the escitalopram, less "misantrophic" and so on.

I mention it so to point out that untreated "depression" multiplies the suckyness of any other symptom. There's no dilemma here, I need those SSRI to cope. I didn't expect escitalopram to work for "depression". Heck I didn't even know I was "depressed". I however suspected I was anxious.

I guess this is however a technical solution on a social problem but what to do. it just seems to be the most rational route if not planning anything more drastic than changing diet and training after it's shown insufficient. I mean I've watching

that one 8 times in a row or so. That I consider quite a drastic change from pre-escitalopram (+ mirtazapine removal) mood.

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NSI-189 has been a disappointment for most on the longecity thread.

The fact that there is no medication for negative schizophrenia symptoms, which are the carbon copy of anhedonic symptoms, is discomforting to say the least.

Theres plenty of meds for these symptoms that dont even get to phase 2 trials.. again, discomforting

These are some recent posts on NSI-189. Seems pretty promising to me. This isn't even pharmaceutical grade NSI-189.

"In my case: It restores cognitive regression: memory enhanches, focus and concentration are getting normal again. I can read a book again, do some study or watch a movie. It does a lot to motivation and the amount of energy. It's the difference between a normal life and one down in the dumps. It does not affect my emotions. It's not a happy pill to me. But it's ok to have them, they're manageable. And then there's this experience like I'm a teenager again. Not only music sounds better, but just driving a car or scooter, feeling the wind in my hair makes me go totally wack. It feels like if it's my first experience."

"It seems like her global outlook on life has dramatically changed in only 5 or 6 weeks. Her motivation to do things is back, memory seems to get better slowly and she's able to feel pleasure again in her every day life. I really hope these are permanent changes and the direct action from nsi isn't contributing too much. Her dosage is 60mg per day. Besides light occasional headaches, she has no side effects."

"Huge benefits for me although I don't necessarily feel more "intelligent" and I haven't run any cognitive tests. I do however feel more spontaneous, ambitious, and social. I also seem to have a greater appreciation for detail and nuance."

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I really do not see there being much of a benefit from most pharmaceuticals - in my experience anything that causes you to "go up" will have a "comedown," and this includes illicit drugs with hallucinogenic properties (though I have no personal experience with this). Even these types of drugs form a tolerance (maybe I am wrong that with chronic administration they make anhedonia worse, but maybe someone else can chime in here). I am telling you guys the most reliable way to cure this is time. Take the example of alcoholics with PAWS - a syndrome characteristic of NMDA overactivity, emotional numbness (which seems to go hand in hand with NMDA overactivity), a dearth of functional GABA receptors, and physically damaging symptoms. This is THE SAME SYNDROME with a different mechanism/trigger. Even long-time alcoholics recover, and, sure enough, the time frequently given seems to be within the same time frame I have suggested in the thread.

I MYSELF have NOTICED steady improvement. I am fully functional, have windows, and cry at times. I have swings of irritability which are invariably followed by improvements (signs that the brain is working towards equilibrium). Please do not give up, and the anxiety spikes will perpetuate the numbness.

ALSO

I have become a big proponent of student rights as this whole situation was triggered, in large part, by my experience with the American education system. MANY OF MY CLOSE FRIENDS ARE EXPERIENCING SIMILAR SYMPTOMS NOW!!! All because of excessive stress!! If you have experienced stress - induced anhedonia or want to vent about your experiences in college, please include your experience here:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-life/1659682-fixing-college-debt-student-rights-unscrupulous-staff-discussion-official-thread.html#latest

I think that it is really important that we stick together with this. Many people are lost like I was. When I feel cured I will write a guide about this sort of thing so people won't suffer for so long in the dark. I have also found that tinybuddha.com has a lot of good resources to help get my thinking on track and reduce anxiety spikes which perpetuate the numbness/blunting.

Edited by itstrevor

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Wow, seems like the moderators did not like THAT down at college confidential. They took down the thread immediately once they saw I was making a thread about advocating for students with depression and dealing with student debt. Looks like I will have to take it elsewhere, but for all to see the unscrupulous people down there that don't seem to like people "rocking the boat" about this issue:

A315Tfo.png

I have been seeing improvements in my anhedonia and plan to write up a guide for you guys when I feel like I'm cured (whatever that means)

Edited by itstrevor

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