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I wasn't sure if I should put this here, or in relationships section since it didn't really start bothering me until my mom got very big time upset this afternoon over the topic of discussion, but now I'm feeling the stress too, so I thought it might go here. Admin, feel free to tell me to relocate the topic if need be, or do it yourself if you have that power. Anyway, the topic at hand.

For those of you who don't live in the U.S.A. or wisely choose to only catch up on the news once a month or so, there has been a riot going on in Minneapolis, Minnesota for 4 days straight, getting ready to become 5 here soon if I'm not mistaken. The town is burning, people are looting, it's a mess. The cause of this riot, that is looking like it will rival the California riots of 1992, was the death of a black man at the hands of police, one white officer in particular who suffocated the victim/alleged criminal by putting too much pressure on the neck, causing death. The officers involved were fired soon after the incident. This is what I know for sure happened.

What comes next is a hurricane of main stream media spins, hearsay, and 4 days of destruction and anarchy. The media says these are merely protests and not at all unruly, as a building burns behind the reporter. Known race baiters and average citizens claim the victim/alleged criminal expressed that he could not breathe, but other official reports claim he could not speak due to the pressure on his neck. Some claim this was a M***** fueled by a racist police force trained to **** minorities, others point out that officers aren't even trained to place their knees on any suspect or victim's neck during attempt to restrain the suspect or victim (from what I've seen in real life, the knee always goes on the suspect's mid or upper back.) Some claim the man was a perfectly healthy man, other sources say the man had health complications, and that was the actual cause of death.

Look at all of this conflicting information. What is anyone supposed to do with all of these contradictions? Burn a city down? That makes no sense at all. I hate to be a tin-foil hat conspiracy theory guy, but it really does seem like the misinformation and confusion is intentionally made to worsen racial tensions. Doesn't help that seemingly every outrage ends up being due to a black person being killed by a white person, police or not. See the Ferguson, Missouri riots and the case of Trayvon Martin for two more examples of this. Both of those cases turned out to be greatly exaggerated (the Ferguson case victim wasn't as innocent as media outlets claimed and the shooter in the Trayvon Martin case wasn't white despite most media outlets claiming that to be the case, among other things). Heck, I wouldn't even be surprised if some of the rioters in this current case aren't even living in Minneapolis, or if they were paid by activists and got way out of hand or something.

So, with all of this on my mind, and finding out my mom has been freaking out in her head, I guess I'm just really stressed out today. I'll be completely honest. I'm a white gun owner (legally, of course). Everyone in my family owns a personal handgun and knows the procedures for using it. If we're witnessing the start of a race war in my home country, I'm more worried about everyone that isn't capable of defending themselves in any way that matters. If it's just this year's racial outrage, then I'm not looking forward to having this incident thrown in my face for the rest of my life as though I'm the one who killed that man (even if it turns out the police didn't **** him somehow, everyone will still say they did). I made a comparison to the California Riots of 1992 earlier. That was wrong of me, because in this case, the officers who killed that man have already been fired and from what I hear are likely to be prosecuted (though with all the conflicting info, who can be certain anymore?). This whole riot is a sham fueling racial tensions and dividing the country even further.  The scary part is, I think it's working.

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I'm a tell it like it is person.  What's happening right now is very serious.  This could absolutely be the beginning of the end right now.  People have realized what I have known for a long time we have no rights whatsoever.

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It's already happening. The world is passing judgement, but not on itself. Oh no, it's America being judged. Canadian friend expressed his "disappointment" in America. I'm so tired of this. Every year. Every single year. Every single bloody year, America gets viewed under a microscope and always, always, always gets this "better than thou" treatment. As if the stuff coming out of Canada is pure, wholesome, inclusive, and all things good, or any other country for that matter. So, now on top of being told that as a white person, I should feel guilty, I can look forward to being told that as an American, I should feel like a disappointment. Racism is alive and well. It can now take a new form that nobody recognizes or even cares about, because as far as everyone is concerned, Americans deserve every bit of scorn and negative attention they get, since the only thing anyone talks about anymore the misdeeds and sins of our forefathers until something like this comes up to give everyone a fresh new reason.

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Posted (edited)

I'm not disappointed in America.  You can look at lot of this year and point at bad leadership at many different levels getting us here.  The riots will not solve anything.  Why are the police and governments mainly just backing off and letting us destroy the place?  They see this as us destroying our own property because we are really.  They think go ahead and destroy the place.  You will have to be the ones that have to pay to repair the place through tax money.  When I saw the worst police video I ever saw in my life I didn't see anything to do with race.  I saw a person being killed in the street.  

Edited by sober4life

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Posted (edited)

"Misdeeds of our forefathers?"  "Our forefathers" didn't stand on a black man's neck until he died, while 3 other white cops looked on.

"Our forefathers" didn't k. i. l. l. a black man, as though he were a hunted animal because he was out for a jog.

“Our forefathers” didn’t try to get a black man arrested in Central Park just because he told a white woman she was in the Bird Watching section of the park and should leash her dog. She pulled a tool from her racist tool box and called 911, saying a black man was filming her and threatening her, and the police should come immediately. And WHY did she think this would work? Because of everything she’s seen recently in the news, by the grace of updated technology. By grace of that same technology, her ploy backfired and she was fired from her job and temporarily surrendered her dog. These instances are merely an update of what was formerly called “lynching.” (or in this case, attempted lynching)

You think you’ve heard it all before, but that stance is indicative not only of naivete, but blindness and ignorance; history is always told by the conquerors. Only in recent years has history also been taught to include a perspective of the defeated and their insistence upon establishing their value—not just in theory—in a culture which heretofore (and really, ongoing) has been content to ignore and/or m.u.r.d.e.r. them. The indigenous peoples of this country have even gone so far as to withdraw from this culture altogether (much to their detriment, by the way) on land “given” to them by the race of greater numbers. 

YES, tribes and races around the world have been k.i.l.l.i.n.g. each other for centuries; EVERY country has a violent origin story.  But the crime of m.u.r.d.e.r. in these countries, apart from the Holocaust, has not been held to the same standard as the US simply because the US established itself as the big kid on the block centuries ago by rebellion against Britain, m.u.r.d.e.r.i.n.g tribes of native peoples and calling it “manifest destiny,” “independence” and “civilizing” a nation. Added to this façade of civilization, an American president abolished slavery in his own country, which, by the way, was not born of humanitarianism, but economic necessity.  The authors of the Declaration of Independence, by writing “all men are created equal,” were by no means talking about brown people, black people, or women.

My intention in this reply has not been to accuse you, or to teach you a lesson.  I’m just saying that, as in all things, we must turn the kaleidoscope even by one move just to broaden our perspective and see the world from another relevant and important point of view. The scary part is that, not only in this matter but in all others, humanity seems bent on self-destruction.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.”

Ariel Durant

 

 

Edited by womanofthelight

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5 hours ago, womanofthelight said:

"Misdeeds of our forefathers?"  "Our forefathers" didn't stand on a black man's neck until he died, while 3 other white cops looked on.

"Our forefathers" didn't k. i. l. l. a black man, as though he were a hunted animal because he was out for a jog.

“Our forefathers” didn’t try to get a black man arrested in Central Park just because he told a white woman she was in the Bird Watching section of the park and should leash her dog. She pulled a tool from her racist tool box and called 911, saying a black man was filming her and threatening her, and the police should come immediately. And WHY did she think this would work? Because of everything she’s seen recently in the news, by the grace of updated technology. By grace of that same technology, her ploy backfired and she was fired from her job and temporarily surrendered her dog. These instances are merely an update of what was formerly called “lynching.” (or in this case, attempted lynching)

You think you’ve heard it all before, but that stance is indicative not only of naivete, but blindness and ignorance; history is always told by the conquerors. Only in recent years has history also been taught to include a perspective of the defeated and their insistence upon establishing their value—not just in theory—in a culture which heretofore (and really, ongoing) has been content to ignore and/or m.u.r.d.e.r. them. The indigenous peoples of this country have even gone so far as to withdraw from this culture altogether (much to their detriment, by the way) on land “given” to them by the race of greater numbers. 

YES, tribes and races around the world have been k.i.l.l.i.n.g. each other for centuries; EVERY country has a violent origin story.  But the crime of m.u.r.d.e.r. in these countries, apart from the Holocaust, has not been held to the same standard as the US simply because the US established itself as the big kid on the block centuries ago by rebellion against Britain, m.u.r.d.e.r.i.n.g tribes of native peoples and calling it “manifest destiny,” “independence” and “civilizing” a nation. Added to this façade of civilization, an American president abolished slavery in his own country, which, by the way, was not born of humanitarianism, but economic necessity.  The authors of the Declaration of Independence, by writing “all men are created equal,” were by no means talking about brown people, black people, or women.

My intention in this reply has not been to accuse you, or to teach you a lesson.  I’m just saying that, as in all things, we must turn the kaleidoscope even by one move just to broaden our perspective and see the world from another relevant and important point of view. The scary part is that, not only in this matter but in all others, humanity seems bent on self-destruction.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.”

Ariel Durant

 

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. How do you know what actually happened? Were you there? Did you see unedited bodycam footage? Last I heard, one of the cops was asian and another was hispanic too. And way to do exactly what I hate by throwing the past in my face. Why would someone think they can get away with a "lynching" when every recent example has led to outrage? Heck, even the hate hoaxes garner the outrage of the supposedly oppressed until the facts come out. If anything, it's more acceptable to **** a white person since that rarely gets any news coverage. Certainly no riots or protests (not that I'd want any, but I'm making a point). Christ, some people actually think white people never even get pulled over by the police, let alone wrongfully killed or arrested.

You claim that I think I've heard it all? Nuh uh, I think you believe you already know it all. What I'm thinking, what I'm feeling. Your reply wasn't meant to accuse me or teach me a lesson, yet you accuse me of being naive, blind, and ignorant and proceed to lecture me on the importance of considering other perspectives. All while narrowing your own focus on assuming this was an intentional racist act, ignoring the aftermath in which the officers were all fired and are now being charged. Ignoring the lives and businesses being uprooted and destroyed in the name of "fighting racism". Lecturing me about how big bad America destroyed the lives of natives as though zero other world powers are guilty of the same thing. America isn't special. The only thing that makes America special is everyone's willingness to use it as a scapegoat to avoid taking responsibility for themselves. And I disagree with the notion that humanity seeks to destroy itself. That's some old, tired, pretentious philosophy that I've heard ever since I was a teen. If humanity wanted that, it would have happened long before any of us were born. Humanity wants to be better. Only problem is that everyone's definition of better is different. Some think better means working hard and staying true to oneself. Others think better means exploiting one's differences to improve their life.

By the way, where did you get your information on this case? I'm curious.

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Your sources say it all. CNN, MSNBC, Fox, USA Today, and ABC are all well known for their spreading of misinformation in favor of pushing a narrative. Countless falsehoods have been published by them, few have been retracted. Christ, during a riot, CNN assured everyone the riots were not unruly at all while a building burned behind the reporter. They're arguably the least trustworthy of them all. And I don't think I will continue this discussion in private. Anything you have to say to me, you can say it in front of everyone. So go ahead and post what you sent to me in PM right here. I'll be waiting for you to shower me with more criticism due to the color of my skin.

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They're all news stations technically but they do like Ancient Aliens does.  They give you just enough facts to where they can mix in lies and opinions and misdirection with it to lead you in whatever direction they want you to go.  I've never been interested in news before these times so I'm not sure if it's always been this way but right now the news stations are 100 percent political.  They exist at this point to either get you to love or hate the president.  That's about it.

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2 hours ago, sober4life said:

They're all news stations technically but they do like Ancient Aliens does.  They give you just enough facts to where they can mix in lies and opinions and misdirection with it to lead you in whatever direction they want you to go.  I've never been interested in news before these times so I'm not sure if it's always been this way but right now the news stations are 100 percent political.  They exist at this point to either get you to love or hate the president.  That's about it.

I can't speak from personal experience, but my understanding is that main stream media has always had a left-leaning bias as far back as the 60s, at least. As for before then, maybe it was a right-leaning bias? In any case, it does seem like it has in fact been like that for a very long time. Though there is a strong case that can be made about it getting much worse and much more blatant in recent years. Your Ancient Aliens comparison is super on point and much like the show, Ancient Aliens, I'm baffled as to how anybody still trust the main stream media after all of the lies, set ups, deception, division, and hatred they've sewed.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, psycholuigiman said:

I can't speak from personal experience, but my understanding is that main stream media has always had a left-leaning bias as far back as the 60s, at least. As for before then, maybe it was a right-leaning bias? In any case, it does seem like it has in fact been like that for a very long time. Though there is a strong case that can be made about it getting much worse and much more blatant in recent years. Your Ancient Aliens comparison is super on point and much like the show, Ancient Aliens, I'm baffled as to how anybody still trust the main stream media after all of the lies, set ups, deception, division, and hatred they've sewed.

Again, I invite you to continue this discussion via PM.

 

 

Edited by womanofthelight

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Posted (edited)

About the man´s death, I think its pretty simple, maybe he had health complications, but, if a knee wouldnt been under his neck, he would died about those complications ? Its easy, he died because the police put his knee over his neck. 

About the riots. Its hard to say it, but... sometimes if you dont make chaos, you just are not heard. I mean, damn those people have reason to make all that chaos. But its sad, because Im sure innocent and good people could been looted, small shops and etc.

Remember some they just want to loot, they are not there protesting, they are just tacking their opportunity.

"race war", Im not sure about that, if whites start to indiscriminately attack blacks, and blacks start doing the same, thats race war. But... I dont think thats what happening there, I think some people are looting, and some other blacks dont want to start a race war, they want racism stop.

Blacks have been living a race war since long time in US. 

-

"So, now on top of being told that as a white person, I should feel guilty, I can look forward to being told that as an American, I should feel like a disappointment"

I dont think you have to feel dissapointment or shameful or whatever because what other people tells you how you should feel. I mean, al what other people says shouldnt affect you !

If someone says to me "ohhh, you should this or that...", and I dont share their opinion, to me is like wind in the air, its just words of other person, saying things I dont care.

I mean, dont let what other people says gets to your nerves.

Edited by mmd

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Posted (edited)

 

 
  •  
15 hours ago, psycholuigiman said:

Your sources say it all. CNN, MSNBC, Fox, USA Today, and ABC are all well known for their spreading of misinformation in favor of pushing a narrative. Countless falsehoods have been published by them, few have been retracted. Christ, during a riot, CNN assured everyone the riots were not unruly at all while a building burned behind the reporter. They're arguably the least trustworthy of them all. And I don't think I will continue this discussion in private. Anything you have to say to me, you can say it in front of everyone. So go ahead and post what you sent to me in PM right here. I'll be waiting for you to shower me with more criticism due to the color of my skin.

Discussions of this nature are prohibited on this site, and we've been fortunate thus far in that we have not been shut down or penalized.  Once again, I invite you to continue this with me in private.  

Edited by womanofthelight

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5 hours ago, womanofthelight said:

 

 
  •  

Discussions of this nature are prohibited on this site, and we've been fortunate thus far in that we have not been shut down or penalized.  Once again, I invite you to continue this with me in private.  

I've combed through both the ToS and the forum guidelines about posting. I haven't seen any restriction on posts of this nature, so long as all parties involved remain respectful. Can you point me to the section you're referring to?

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16 hours ago, mmd said:

About the man´s death, I think its pretty simple, maybe he had health complications, but, if a knee wouldnt been under his neck, he would died about those complications ? Its easy, he died because the police put his knee over his neck. 

About the riots. Its hard to say it, but... sometimes if you dont make chaos, you just are not heard. I mean, damn those people have reason to make all that chaos. But its sad, because Im sure innocent and good people could been looted, small shops and etc.

Remember some they just want to loot, they are not there protesting, they are just tacking their opportunity.

"race war", Im not sure about that, if whites start to indiscriminately attack blacks, and blacks start doing the same, thats race war. But... I dont think thats what happening there, I think some people are looting, and some other blacks dont want to start a race war, they want racism stop.

Blacks have been living a race war since long time in US. 

-

"So, now on top of being told that as a white person, I should feel guilty, I can look forward to being told that as an American, I should feel like a disappointment"

I dont think you have to feel dissapointment or shameful or whatever because what other people tells you how you should feel. I mean, al what other people says shouldnt affect you !

If someone says to me "ohhh, you should this or that...", and I dont share their opinion, to me is like wind in the air, its just words of other person, saying things I dont care.

I mean, dont let what other people says gets to your nerves.

My whole point in bringing up the health complications, the race of the other officers, and now the fact that two of the officers at the scene have a history of going overboard has only been to show that this was not a "lynching" as the media likes to call it. This was more than likely a police brutality instance not at all related to race. Not to mention the officer with his knee on the victim/suspect's neck getting fired before the riots really even got started. Sometimes you have to make chaos to be heard? Okay, then what's the message? Is it don't be racist? Well, this is looking more and more like it wasn't a racist act so that message is pointless. Is it police brutality won't be ignored? The officer was fired, so clearly it's not being ignored. Then again, maybe he wasn't fired until after the riots had started. Okay, then there is no reason for the riots to continue now that he has been not only fired, but arrested and is getting set up for criminal charges.

And I disagree with the notion that blacks have been living a race war. I somehow doubt that Generation Y or Generation Z have had to fight all that hard what with affirmative action making it easier to land a job, universities and other institutions giving them extra consideration due to the color of their skin being a virtue, and cities going as far as to prohibit the conduction of sting operations in dominantly black neighborhoods, as well as the myriad of organizations created solely to help black people. If they have been fighting a war, it's been from internal conflicts trying to decide for themselves if what they've been told about the system being against them their whole life was true or not. Whether or not racism has been involved in that is a lot harder for me to say. Bottom line is, those problems that are portrayed as problems only blacks have to deal with, they're not that way. Change the races of the officers and the victim/suspect in this case, and it's probably happened. Only difference is that blacks are the only ones whose lives are precious enough to warrant a 7 day and counting riot across a country.

I really appreciate your thoughtful reply, by the way. It's nice not to be told I'm just blind or ignorant to everything because I haven't lived through it personally. That's not a dig at womanofthelight, just to be clear. I get told that frequently in my life outside of this forum. On the topic of having this thrown in my face forever, I guess I can just only take so much. When you try to follow politics and current events, you run into some nasty people. I'm sure you know what that's like. It doesn't hurt so much when it's some random guy on the internet. As far as I know, they're just trying to get a rise out of me. This time was different though. It was someone I thought was my friend. I guess I had an image of him in my head, and I couldn't handle it when it was broken like that. He had so much sympathy for stuff in the past, but I guess when it's just what he perceives to be racist Americans, and on such a large scale, that sympathy turns into condescending disappointment. I guess I need to not think so highly of my friends, even though I'm careful about selecting them.

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7 hours ago, psycholuigiman said:

My whole point in bringing up the health complications, the race of the other officers, and now the fact that two of the officers at the scene have a history of going overboard has only been to show that this was not a "lynching" as the media likes to call it. This was more than likely a police brutality instance not at all related to race. Not to mention the officer with his knee on the victim/suspect's neck getting fired before the riots really even got started. Sometimes you have to make chaos to be heard? Okay, then what's the message? Is it don't be racist? Well, this is looking more and more like it wasn't a racist act so that message is pointless. Is it police brutality won't be ignored? The officer was fired, so clearly it's not being ignored. Then again, maybe he wasn't fired until after the riots had started. Okay, then there is no reason for the riots to continue now that he has been not only fired, but arrested and is getting set up for criminal charges.

And I disagree with the notion that blacks have been living a race war. I somehow doubt that Generation Y or Generation Z have had to fight all that hard what with affirmative action making it easier to land a job, universities and other institutions giving them extra consideration due to the color of their skin being a virtue, and cities going as far as to prohibit the conduction of sting operations in dominantly black neighborhoods, as well as the myriad of organizations created solely to help black people. If they have been fighting a war, it's been from internal conflicts trying to decide for themselves if what they've been told about the system being against them their whole life was true or not. Whether or not racism has been involved in that is a lot harder for me to say. Bottom line is, those problems that are portrayed as problems only blacks have to deal with, they're not that way. Change the races of the officers and the victim/suspect in this case, and it's probably happened. Only difference is that blacks are the only ones whose lives are precious enough to warrant a 7 day and counting riot across a country.

I really appreciate your thoughtful reply, by the way. It's nice not to be told I'm just blind or ignorant to everything because I haven't lived through it personally. That's not a dig at womanofthelight, just to be clear. I get told that frequently in my life outside of this forum. On the topic of having this thrown in my face forever, I guess I can just only take so much. When you try to follow politics and current events, you run into some nasty people. I'm sure you know what that's like. It doesn't hurt so much when it's some random guy on the internet. As far as I know, they're just trying to get a rise out of me. This time was different though. It was someone I thought was my friend. I guess I had an image of him in my head, and I couldn't handle it when it was broken like that. He had so much sympathy for stuff in the past, but I guess when it's just what he perceives to be racist Americans, and on such a large scale, that sympathy turns into condescending disappointment. I guess I need to not think so highly of my friends, even though I'm careful about selecting them.

Hi again, i was going to make a long reply with arguments and all that, but im pretty tired really (sleepy). 

"I really appreciate your thoughtful reply, by the way. It's nice not to be told I'm just blind or ignorant to everything because I haven't lived through it personally. " You are welcome. I dont agree with some of the things you said in your last comment, but I can tell you are not racist, so thats good enough to me.

And just wanna say that the riots and lootings are sad to see. 

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2 hours ago, HeatherG said:

Wow.

His name was George Floyd.

My heart and prayers go out to his family and friends.

Same. They deserve better than to have his death be the catalyst for setting a country on fire and for activists, politicians, and criminals to all be using his death as a tool to promote their agenda and get some easy money.

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The media is completely twisted, self-serving, and evil.

These days they thrive entirely on clickbait outrage and fearmongering. It doesn't matter if they're "left" or "right", they both do the same thing. They don't care at all about unbiased truth.

It's really, really unhealthy for people with depression, anxiety, or PTSD to watch the news.

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Ufortunately turning to networks like PBS (in the states) has become a joke too. It used to go out of its way to not be skewed towards Dems or Reps. It's not as bad and blatant, in many cases, as the big networks. However I listen to it because my partner thinks it's still honest and unbiased. I think "unbiased" is an oxymoron at this point. PBS is also biased but they do it in a softer way to hide their agenda also.

At the end of the day we watch different media outlets then form our own opinion.

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This Topic has gone on long enough and has had some members distraught over it.  It has broken the Terms of Service more than once.

despite what @psycholuigiman had said was totally wrong in so many ways.

For one, War in the title is not inviting to members.  I understand this is an anxiety ridden subject, and we all feel for the victim, George Floyd.

I am an old baby boomer and I for one lived through many race riots in the 60's and 70's.

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