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samadhiSheol

Existential (depression)?

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Meaninglessness. Nothing I do means anything to me. Nothing I see around me, happening to me to the world..none of it really means anything to me.

you know when they say how we should see the good in humanity, ourselves etc. I question the whole notion of good and bad. 

Why is something good and why is it bad? Why are not our thoughts, feelings and notions not TRULY US? (That is what we are being told when we are” depressed”: “no it’s not you, it’s depression/you mental disorder of choice speaking. “ “You inner critic telling you lies”, ad nauseam..

What if constant emptiness tells you time and time again, nothing you do changes anything? When you stay stuck whatever you do or think, or say or act?

On who’s authority are we to believe that our thoughts aren’t “ours”? 

Why is one thought supposed to be better than another? On who’s authority, I ask again? 

What if all our religions, sciences, arts etc. actually don’t tell anything about the world or “reality” around us at all, but are just narratives, campfire stories we tell ourselves, that tell us more about our(empty)selves and absolutely nothing about anything else?

Who am I? Who is anyone? Is consciousness just an illusion? Is life just a mechanism, without any meaning in the sense we think about “meaning”? Perhaps there is no ”my/your/ourselves.

And what is “meaning” anyhow???? What is anything?

And more to the point

why?

 

 

Emptiness is more real than anything else. Emptiness is ever present.

Life is..I can only speak for myself but my “life” is a pointless illusion and from my standpoint, so is everyone else’s.

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Unanswerable questions, in my opinion. Or if I did answer, it would be to reply, "I don't know."

I have this notion of "improving myself". Trying to get myself to "do better" at work and with life in general. But the very next thought that pops into my head is, "WHY?". I'm not optimistic about the future at all. But I think that I should continue living and if that's the case, I should be eating better, getting more exercise, trying to improve my performance at work, and the rest of the general horseshit that we are told.

Why?

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Since I come from a philosophical background, I can appreciate the idea of calling all things into question and doubting as long as one also doubts one's own doubts.

When someone says that everything is meaningless, should I take that seriously?  What I mean is:  Isn't the person saying this telling me:  "what I am saying here is meaningful, namely that everything is meaningless?  And if a person believes that even what he is saying is meaningless, then I wonder:  "why say it and why expect others to take it seriously?"

And it seems to me, that a person who says that everything is meaningless still holds onto some values.  What I mean is that they believe it is "good" to know that everything is meaningless, that is "bad" to believe in meaning and also that it is "good" to sort of teach others the "truth" that everything is meaningless and "bad" to keep that truth to oneself. 

If I say that everything is BS, smoke and mirrors and such . . . am I also saying that what I am saying is BS and smoke and mirrors and such.  If I exempt myself from the world of BS and saying that everything is BS except my insight that everything is BS, am I not smuggling in a little meaning into what I say is meaningless?  Am I doubting all things but my own doubts?

I've been watching the news pretty much all of my adult life.  Most of the news is about bad things that have happened or are going on.  Philosophically I can look at the news and ask, why are bad things reported rather than good.  What I mean is that I've never watched a news program where the stories were thus:  Today there were not earthquakes on every inch of land on the earth.  Today every student in the world [a billion] did not commit a mass violent act.  Today tens of thousands of trains and buses transported people safely to their destinations without incident.  Today over a trillion people did not commit a violent felony.

These kinds of things don't make the news because good things are very common.  It is common for tens of thousands of aircraft to transport hundreds of thousands of travelers safely.  It is news when one crashes.

That has some philosophical dimension.  While it is true that things are not perfect, is it true that only perfection is good?  Perfectionists have thought so but I wonder.  Of course if one equates goodness with infinite perfection that one is able to criticize anything and everything, including oneself.

But that leads to some questions too.  Where do human beings get this notion of "perfection"?  Someone once said that we get the notion of "perfection" by comparing things that are more perfect to things that are less perfect.  But this begs the question.  How do we know that some things are more or leess perfect unless we have some notion of "perfection" itself.

You ask "on whose authority" so many things are presented and if that not a "meaningful" question?  Perhaps that is why philosophers are taught to question and challenge everything but also challenge and question their own doubts.

Perhaps I'm wrong.

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Thing is I find it impossible to live without a “why”. I am not even sure there are any conditions within which I would choose to live.

I see no reason for anything. Love. Death. God. Existence. Happiness. Sadness. Good. Evil. The banality of these concepts never cease to surprise me(not in a particularly good way).

No reason for any of it.

I can’t live with this pointlessness anymore. I can’t stand the banality that is humanity. 

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You are spot on, @epictetus. 

I am just shooting in the dark though. There is no method to my proverbial madness, or genius at all. 

I am just an empty husk without a soul. I don’t have values that aren’t  changeable at any given moment. If you asked what my values were, I’d say I haven’t a clue.

Everything is negotiable. Everything and everyone can be corrupted beyond redemption, if redemption even exists in any form.

 

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“What do you mean by "banality" Samadhi?”

The “human” condition. 

We don’t make sense at all. We have concepts of good and bad. We have regulations. We have civilization, we create gods in our image. We try and make sense of the world.

Then we do our best to destroy it.

You say goodness is so commonplace it doesn’t make the news.

I say goodness weighs less than the bad, if “good” or “bad” even mean anything, objectively speaking.

To be sure, I have “morals”. There are things I would abhor doing to someone. I don’t think they are anything more than glorified reflexes though, stuff we have been conditioned with, living in certain circumstances.

That is I have morals now. In other circumstances I could and probably would be, Ted Bundy.

Edited by samadhiSheol

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Well I've seen you around these Forums for some time.  I've seen you reach out to people in trouble.  It can be pretty easy to reach out to someone in misery when everything is coming up roses in one's life.  But you suffer and still reach to others.  I find that heroic beyond words.  It certainly puts everything I do to shame. 

You also share music with us here.  Music is awesome and helps and enriches people all over the world.

You share your own inner life with strangers here and those who know you and that is certainly a great help to others and to me when I am in the pit.

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Just now, Epictetus said:

Well I've seen you around these Forums for some time.  I've seen you reach out to people in trouble.  It can be pretty easy to reach out to someone in misery when everything is coming up roses in one's life.  But you suffer and still reach to others.  I find that heroic beyond words.  It certainly puts everything I do to shame. 

You also share music with us here.  Music is awesome and helps and enriches people all over the world.

You share your own inner life with strangers here and those who know you and that is certainly a great help to others and to me when I am in the pit.

None of this helps me though.

In fact, I think it just makes me feel worse.

One day I will have to quit or I will just end my life.

I might do that anyhow. 

I just don’t see any reason to live.

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At the peak of My depression a lot of my thoughts would be extremely existential. It was as If I woke up one day and someone just told me humanity entire history And I just found out what earth was and that were just these tiny beings Floating on this tiny rock in infinite black space. I couldn't  fathom it all. I was constantly going over im my head a lot of why/how questions that many didnt have answers to.

Then honestly I kind of got over it. There's a lot of questions that I still ponder about but I do it more so in a way that I just find it interesting that we all exist right now in this very moment. I used to be filled with existential dread until I just recognised that a lot of the questions I had were questions Most Humans Ponder about except they dont worry about it. We are not meant to have all the answers and thats ok. We have the self awareness to ask the questions but also its in us to be able to live a happy life without all the answers 

 Existential Depression in my opinion comes when our depression develops im a way that makes us feel disconnected to our settings and the people around us. Making it hard to enjoy anything. What helped me is realizing the things that were affecting me at a smaller scale that were making me feel like a complete mess and not be able to function. 

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I was 11 or twelve when it struck me how empty everything was. 

My "epiphany" at the time was realizing, eating my favourite sweets, watching my favourite tv-show with my grandparents, is this happiness? 

Since then I have never felt any emotion without the feeling of emptiness. I see it everywhere. I feel it constantly.

I have never made a meaningful life for myself. I have always felt dissatisfied and I am always wanting. All I have managed to do is live a life that has no interest to me. 

I have never known what I want. I have no passion for anything. I have no skills. I have nothing to make a difference in my life. 

I am empty within. I am absolutely nothing and I see no way out. There is no way out because there is no "in".

We are on a certain path of destruction. Humanity is driven by greed and selfishness and nothing will change that. It's part of what kept us alive when we were hunter-gatherers, but nowadays we will just destroy ourselves and good riddance. I don't want to live in any version of this sad world.

This planet will be a better place without humanity. I have no intention to stick around. I am just too much of a p ussy to do it - yet.

Or perhaps I am too braindead to care even about suicide.

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Hi Samadhi,

     In retrospect, I think it was wrong of me to offer you a philosophical argument.  I'm so sorry.  If a person is in pain, he or she has a right to scream.  It is wrong of me to try to argue you out of that scream.  Wrong and not helpful.  I am sure I would see and hear and sense and feel and think about things exactly as you do if I was in your shoes.  Wish I knew what to say that would help.  It is terrible that you are suffering so much.      - epictetus

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14 minutes ago, Epictetus said:

Hi Samadhi,

     In retrospect, I think it was wrong of me to offer you a philosophical argument.  I'm so sorry.  If a person is in pain, he or she has a right to scream.  It is wrong of me to try to argue you out of that scream.  Wrong and not helpful.  I am sure I would see and hear and sense and feel and think about things exactly as you do if I was in your shoes.  Wish I knew what to say that would help.  It is terrible that you are suffering so much.      - epictetus

No, no ,no, epic. I can't have this at all.

You have no reason whatsoever to apologize.  I.. We ALL need you to do what you do on df. We need your philosophy. We need your empathy and warmth.

I am just a malcontent, arguing for the sake of argument.

To be honest, there isn't really suffering..or no more than absolutely EVERYONE suffers, in a sort of buddhist, trilakshana (anitya, dukha, anatman) sense. 

It's just that I have been aware of this(my version of void) for so long. 

Who knows, perhaps I am closing in on enlightenment. 

Haha.

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1 hour ago, samadhiSheol said:

Who knows, perhaps I am closing in on enlightenment

Praps you are! Bloody hope so. If you go, take me with you! Take me now god, take me now hahaha!! 😂

 

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Custer was busy becoming;  Sitting Bull was busy being.  That's how a guy I read generalized  the big difference between American Indian thinking, and modern American thinking, Eastern/Western too.  Most of history's people knew, for better or worse, who they were, where they belonged.  It takes a modern mind to sing a worried song into the ground.

 

Bulgakov

Edited by Bulgakov

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7 hours ago, Bulgakov said:

Custer was busy becoming;  Sitting Bull was busy being.  That's how a guy I read generalized  the big difference between American Indian thinking, and modern American thinking, Eastern/Western too.  Most of history's people knew, for better or worse, who they were, where they belonged.  It takes a modern mind to sing a worried song into the ground.

 

Bulgakov

If I have understood zen correctly, this is it exactly.

Enlightenment,or satori, is the realization we have been enlightened the whole time!

I am too "western" for my own good though. Haha.

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