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God makes me bitter not better


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Having a hard time processing why a “God” would allow suffering. What purpose does it serve? I’ve heard the bull answer of, “free will. We have to learn from our mistakes!” But if you saw your child running in the street towards a semi-truck do you stop them? Or do you go, “aw man, he’s just gotta learn the hard way!” Of course you stop them, of course you protect your child, the love(s) of your life from life’s tragedies and certain death.

 

If you saw someone ******* someone, and you had the ability to undeniably stop it and for everyone to be safe, why wouldn’t you? Or rape? Or even any smaller transgressions. If you had the ability to give someone wholeness and unconditional love would you not give it freely? 

 

Why doesn’t God? The debate is always free-will. Free will for what purpose? For an ego boost to some possibly fictitious omnipresent being that can sit by and idly witness every atrocity this world has offered? Yet there is reprieve for the wicked and hardship for the virtuous. What does God gain that is worth the world’s suffering? What do we gain besides the possibility of eternal cohabitation with a “God” that has serious sadist vibes. 

 

I’m growing more and more bitter without a valid answer for “God’s” inactions. This post isn’t meant to be a debate or to be offensive. So I’m sorry if anyone takes it that way, I apologize. My intentions aren’t to make anyone hurt or uncomfortable but to vent. If there is some infinite wisdom I am missing, please by all means, share the wealth of knowledge.

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Of course I would have to step in to help.  Whatever created us either doesn't care or is a scientist conducting a science experiment and just wants to stand back and see how things go without interfering.  This scientist might see earth as a failed science experiment and has abandoned us or the creator might not live forever.  Whatever created the earth might have died and can't step in anymore.  My opinion my mom passed away and I hope there is a wonderful heaven where she is but looking at the disaster this world is what can I really expect the afterlife to be.  Maybe God thinks this is good so what can I really expect for an afterlife?

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3 minutes ago, sober4life said:

Of course I would have to step in to help.  Whatever created us either doesn't care or is a scientist conducting a science experiment and just wants to stand back and see how things go without interfering.  This scientist might see earth as a failed science experiment and has abandoned us or the creator might not live forever.  Whatever created the earth might have died and can't step in anymore.  My opinion my mom passed away and I hope there is a wonderful heaven where she is but looking at the disaster this world is what can I really expect the afterlife to be.  Maybe God thinks this is good so what can I really expect for an afterlife?

I’m sorry about your mom and I hope there is some happy existence after this life. There should be some reward for our endurance. I lost my dad when I was 13. He wasn’t a very good person to be honest (wow. Think this might be my first time admitting this openly) so I’m not sure how I feel about him living beyond, though I was a big daddy’s girl when he passed and it affected me terribly.

That’s funny you said Science experiment. I remember I took a creative writing class in College and I wrote a short story from the perspective of a “God” that was observing us for a science project. A lot of people scoffed at first but I ended up being the hottest topic writer in the class. I guess god is a big seller. 

I really appreciate sharing the potential scenarios. Who knows what it might all really be? Bending ideas to suit a fallible god is much more alluring than one that doesn’t care.

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22 minutes ago, MarkintheDark said:

I so wish I had some wisdom to impart befitting my 60-some years.  I really do.  But I'm afraid that John Milton's speech ("Devil's Advocate") was like an epiphany to me.  He precisely described my feelings on the matter.

Just went to read it. That really resonates. It really makes sense. If there is a god and a devil, I can understand why he rebelled. Maybe he got tired of the same bullshit we endure? They say that hell is the absence of god. But I have yet to see him interact, so maybe we’re already here.

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I personally think the the "God" running our part of the universe is cruel and vindictive. There's no other conclusion that I can reach.

Maybe it isn't really "God" in charge; just some sort of evil demiurge wannabe who gets his/her/its jollies by randomly screwing with people's lives. The real God must enjoy watching too, otherwise he/she/it would step in and stop the damage.

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8 hours ago, Tid322 said:

Having a hard time processing why a “God” would allow suffering. What purpose does it serve? I’ve heard the bull answer of, “free will. We have to learn from our mistakes!” But if you saw your child running in the street towards a semi-truck do you stop them? Or do you go, “aw man, he’s just gotta learn the hard way!” Of course you stop them, of course you protect your child, the love(s) of your life from life’s tragedies and certain death.

 

If you saw someone ******* someone, and you had the ability to undeniably stop it and for everyone to be safe, why wouldn’t you? Or rape? Or even any smaller transgressions. If you had the ability to give someone wholeness and unconditional love would you not give it freely? 

 

Why doesn’t God? The debate is always free-will. Free will for what purpose? For an ego boost to some possibly fictitious omnipresent being that can sit by and idly witness every atrocity this world has offered? Yet there is reprieve for the wicked and hardship for the virtuous. What does God gain that is worth the world’s suffering? What do we gain besides the possibility of eternal cohabitation with a “God” that has serious sadist vibes. 

 

I’m growing more and more bitter without a valid answer for “God’s” inactions. This post isn’t meant to be a debate or to be offensive. So I’m sorry if anyone takes it that way, I apologize. My intentions aren’t to make anyone hurt or uncomfortable but to vent. If there is some infinite wisdom I am missing, please by all means, share the wealth of knowledge.

Well, I'm not a particularly religious person, but I can share what I know, bearing in mind that churches never seem to agree with one another, and I'm in no way qualified to give this advice. (Yay?) But I'll give it a shot.

Biblically speaking, God is technically locked into an epic battle with Satan, (sort of like Good Omens but with fewer snarky demon/English angel gay couples being adorable while trying to stop the apocalypse.) So, Satan really enjoys suffering and evil. Initially, he didn't have much power, but then the human race made a decision. Basically, it's usually framed as the first sin, but could also be seen as the ability to discern what is right and wrong, which is more complicated. Humans, according to the Bible, were initially 'perfect', but perfect in the sense that if they did anything wrong, it didn't count as evil because they didn't know it was wrong, and it never occurred to them, in a perfect world, to do anything violent or invasive. (There wouldn't have been a concept of theft, for example, because there wasn't a concept of ownership.) The upshot of them actually giving Satan a place in their lives through wanting to attain this knowledge of good and evil gave him a door into the world, and because of the way it came about, the fight is now on for everyone's souls, and that is why evil exists.

So, that's at the  beginning of the Bible. The way out of the troubles basically comes about in the New Testament, where Jesus arrives. Because of the cosmic battle, God basically decides, 'Man, I need an original way out of this, where I know that the people who want to fight on my side are genuine, and I can get them out of there safely.' (Obviously, this concept of 'safely' is more about the afterlife than life, since life is a battlefield. Now imagine that phrase playing in the music video of Love is a Battlefield, and splice it with Good Omens. You will get something very interesting.)

So, God sent down a version of Himself in human form, who was named Jesus. Jesus preached lots of radical things, like love, compassion, selflessness, and a whole new way of looking at things. But then he was crucified for blasphemy. However, it was actually in the plan for him to die this way. In the Old Testament, people who 'done bad', you might say, had to offer up an animal sacrifice in atonement. So, Jesus was technically the sacrifice. He died and was put in a tomb, and came back to life after three days dead. So, this basically allowed humans who realized that they're essentially not so good, (and none of us are perfect,) to say so to God, and to ask to be forgiven, and then they, like Jesus, will be reborn one day, (assuming they want to keep Jesus commands about loving others and loving God and all that.) Obviously, the majority of people are not going to do that, so there's still evil in the world because the battle's still going on, like the Epic Rap Battle that nobody ever wanted. But it means that if those who accept Jesus persevere, they will be on the winning side, while the bad guys will ultimately be punished by going to Hell, where they're going to find that the general of Satan's army ain't so cool to hang with.

That's my explanation, and I'm probably going to get roasted for heresy because of something I said, but that's the Cliffnotes version, and I'm only going to give references to these scriptures if you ask. (You can ask, though, and I'll go search them up. I'm happy to. Don't know if any of this helped, or if I just did a semi creative writing project that bored everyone to sleep.)

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13 minutes ago, MargotMontage said:

Well, I'm not a particularly religious person, but I can share what I know, bearing in mind that churches never seem to agree with one another, and I'm in no way qualified to give this advice. (Yay?) But I'll give it a shot.

Biblically speaking, God is technically locked into an epic battle with Satan, (sort of like Good Omens but with fewer snarky demon/English angel gay couples being adorable while trying to stop the apocalypse.) So, Satan really enjoys suffering and evil. Initially, he didn't have much power, but then the human race made a decision. Basically, it's usually framed as the first sin, but could also be seen as the ability to discern what is right and wrong, which is more complicated. Humans, according to the Bible, were initially 'perfect', but perfect in the sense that if they did anything wrong, it didn't count as evil because they didn't know it was wrong, and it never occurred to them, in a perfect world, to do anything violent or invasive. (There wouldn't have been a concept of theft, for example, because there wasn't a concept of ownership.) The upshot of them actually giving Satan a place in their lives through wanting to attain this knowledge of good and evil gave him a door into the world, and because of the way it came about, the fight is now on for everyone's souls, and that is why evil exists.

So, that's at the  beginning of the Bible. The way out of the troubles basically comes about in the New Testament, where Jesus arrives. Because of the cosmic battle, God basically decides, 'Man, I need an original way out of this, where I know that the people who want to fight on my side are genuine, and I can get them out of there safely.' (Obviously, this concept of 'safely' is more about the afterlife than life, since life is a battlefield. Now imagine that phrase playing in the music video of Love is a Battlefield, and splice it with Good Omens. You will get something very interesting.)

So, God sent down a version of Himself in human form, who was named Jesus. Jesus preached lots of radical things, like love, compassion, selflessness, and a whole new way of looking at things. But then he was crucified for blasphemy. However, it was actually in the plan for him to die this way. In the Old Testament, people who 'done bad', you might say, had to offer up an animal sacrifice in atonement. So, Jesus was technically the sacrifice. He died and was put in a tomb, and came back to life after three days dead. So, this basically allowed humans who realized that they're essentially not so good, (and none of us are perfect,) to say so to God, and to ask to be forgiven, and then they, like Jesus, will be reborn one day, (assuming they want to keep Jesus commands about loving others and loving God and all that.) Obviously, the majority of people are not going to do that, so there's still evil in the world because the battle's still going on, like the Epic Rap Battle that nobody ever wanted. But it means that if those who accept Jesus persevere, they will be on the winning side, while the bad guys will ultimately be punished by going to Hell, where they're going to find that the general of Satan's army ain't so cool to hang with.

That's my explanation, and I'm probably going to get roasted for heresy because of something I said, but that's the Cliffnotes version, and I'm only going to give references to these scriptures if you ask. (You can ask, though, and I'll go search them up. I'm happy to. Don't know if any of this helped, or if I just did a semi creative writing project that bored everyone to sleep.)

I appreciate your reply. I am not clear if this goes along at all with your own feelings or beliefs. Or if it’s just your interpretation of the Bible.

As shocking as it may be, I am actually very well versed on the Bible, and have read it in its entirety. My husband was a preacher for a couple years and pretty much every single male in his family preaches. So I am by no means a stranger to the gospel.

I think because of exposure it has only made me more bitter. Still none of it offers me a reasonable explanation to allow the suffering of humanity.

I question the benevolence of a God who’s only method of salvation was the brutal slaying of his own innocent son.

The fact that churches don’t act Christ like is proving. The fact that they act like it’s a sin to skip services makes me question the techniques of brainwashing. 

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6 hours ago, Tid322 said:

I appreciate your reply. I am not clear if this goes along at all with your own feelings or beliefs. Or if it’s just your interpretation of the Bible.

As shocking as it may be, I am actually very well versed on the Bible, and have read it in its entirety. My husband was a preacher for a couple years and pretty much every single male in his family preaches. So I am by no means a stranger to the gospel.

I think because of exposure it has only made me more bitter. Still none of it offers me a reasonable explanation to allow the suffering of humanity.

I question the benevolence of a God who’s only method of salvation was the brutal slaying of his own innocent son.

The fact that churches don’t act Christ like is proving. The fact that they act like it’s a sin to skip services makes me question the techniques of brainwashing. 

Well, it's my interpretation, to be fair. And no, it's not shocking that you know the Bible. Many do. (Of course, that probably makes my long post less useful to you ... but oh well.)

Yeah, I see your point about the suffering, and the sacrifice of his own son. I guess that, if you want to go by what's written down, Jesus wanted to go through it himself in order to spare everyone else. (I mean, the dude was asking God to forgive the people who were ******* and mocking him as it happened in real time, so it seems like the kind of thing he'd want to do himself, in my opinion.) So technically it was more of a self-sacrifice than an outright human sacrifice.

Still, that doesn't erase the other suffering, and will probably only be comforting if you believe in Biblical text to begin with. Even though I have a lot of problems with religion, I do get into debates about it sometimes, so I hope this is not too tiresome!

Churches, on the other hand, I have little patience with. They are rarely about the teachings of Jesus, (love others, forgive, be generous, be humble, etc.) Many churches are not loving or forgiving, are the polar opposite of generous, (e.g. focus on tithing even when congregants are in poverty,) and very grandiose. Skipping services sometimes certainly isn't going to 'send anyone to Hell', and it's mainly about control when they get upset about it. I guess the greatest evil can be a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I doubt I've really made you feel any better, but I hope that you'll be able to arrive at peace somehow. Be sure to keep posting anyway, if it's helping! :hugs:

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4 hours ago, Bulgakov said:

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us

Sang--but not written--by Joan Osborne

I'm one of us.  I get it and my thoughts if I was him would be I have the power to give my "children" a better life and I'm going to do it.

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Oh, I love a good religious debate. I don’t shy away and I always like to listen to any side because you never know where you might learn something. Knowledge is everywhere.

As for Jesus “wanting” to, I wouldn’t agree. He prayed for God to take that burden from him, of course of it was God’s will. So we can say without certainty he didn’t want to and I have would go further to say that it was certain death. And even though/if it was a self-sacrifice from Jesus, it was a blatant display of God’s lack of care for humanity. He takes the human in the highest esteem and purity and he watches him being brutalized. 

I believe church goers are the Pharisees and the sadducees in modern day. 

Edited by Tid322
For clarity. I suck at typing/texting.
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33 minutes ago, sober4life said:

I'm one of us.  I get it and my thoughts if I was him would be I have the power to give my "children" a better life and I'm going to do it.

Exactly! Why wouldn’t a LOVING parent do that? Shit I want to do that for people I don’t even know! How do our hearts compare to god’s? 

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21 hours ago, Tid322 said:

 Yet there is reprieve for the wicked and hardship for the virtuous.

Mother Nature definitely seems to favour evil. I don't know if God exists or not, but we all know for sure that Mother Nature exists, and nature likes to create monsters. Our flimsy, poorly-developed sense of morality says that we should lock up all the monsters, but that's not what nature wants. 

I'm always reminded of this whenever I watch a good nature documentary, and I'm always reminded in the most sobering way that practically everything out there is trying to hurt you or ki*l you.

Without question, my whole life, it's always been the most sociopathic people that obtain the happiest lives. Every now and then a nice person will make it in life, but it only ever looks like a fluke. Someone who has somehow managed to infiltrate Mother Nature's brutal barricades which only permit entry to the cruel, the soulless, and the vilest.

I think you also need to take into account that people actually quite like evil. I've always observed that humanity's relationship with evil is entirely hypocritical, which is to say, nobody has a problem dishing it out, evil only becomes a problem for people when they're on the receiving end. Then it becomes an "outrage". 

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42 minutes ago, mmoose said:

When God gave humans free will, did God lose omnipotence?   

(serious.  Was just thinking about that yesterday)

Well, the omnipotence question has always been there. I guess that the fact is that God didn't give humans free will so much as they got it when they turned away from God, so ... I don't know the answer to that one. I'm not a philosopher ... But it's a great question.

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8 hours ago, Tid322 said:

Oh, I love a good religious debate. I don’t shy away and I always like to listen to any side because you never know where you might learn something. Knowledge is everywhere.

As for Jesus “wanting” to, I wouldn’t agree. He prayed for God to take that burden from him, of course of it was God’s will. So we can say without certainty he didn’t want to and I have would go further to say that it was certain death. And even though/if it was a self-sacrifice from Jesus, it was a blatant display of God’s lack of care for humanity. He takes the human in the highest esteem and purity and he watches him being brutalized. 

I believe church goers are the Pharisees and the sadducees in modern day. 

You're right. I went to check that part of the New Testament, and Jesus did ask God not to let him die that way. 'Going a little farther, he fell with his face on the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."' (Matthew 26:39). So I guess the question is: which part of that sentence is the more dominant one? The bit where he asks for it not to happen, or the bit where he's willing for it if that's what God wants? Other bits of the scriptures definitely suggest the second part of that passage is the dominant one, but that doesn't mean that what happened to him wasn't brutal and horrifying. (Actually, the whole concept of crucifixion is inhumane, and it wasn't a very efficient or quick way of carrying out capital punishment, so I guess the Romans did it for the humiliation/public display factor, which is pretty disgusting.)

I suppose that you could look at the positive side: that Jesus loved everyone so much that he went and died that way to take the burden off everyone else. That's a lot easier to hold onto than the concept of an alien god who seems cruel and uncaring. There's nothing cruel or uncaring in letting yourself be ****** for the sake of everyone else because you just love them so darn much, warts and all. (Again, I don't know if that's comforting to you, but that's my interpretation.)

Overall, though, I'd agree that the standard modern church really reflects the attitude of the Pharisees/Sadducees. It's very sad.

Edited by MargotMontage
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7 hours ago, Mark250 said:

I think you also need to take into account that people actually quite like evil. I've always observed that humanity's relationship with evil is entirely hypocritical, which is to say, nobody has a problem dishing it out, evil only becomes a problem for people when they're on the receiving end.

I don’t know that I agree with this. I don’t think people particularly like evil. I suspect for some narcissists that is true because that may be their only way to feel emotion. However for the vast majority I think it is a matter of preservation. It’s been made nearly financially impossible to display our hearts yearning to help others, so our society has been conditioned to think of themselves and their small group first. Survivability. 

If you surround yourself only with your small circle and don’t try to reach out and learn you close off experiences, you close yourself to empathy. You become cold hearted and mean. But I wouldn’t necessarily say evil. I don’t think the vast majority is okay with the way things are but what can one person do, is the mentality.

Documentaries are my favorite things to watch. I’ve always been made fun of for it. But I have a huge desire to learn about all aspects of life. Especially others lives.And I totally get what you mean by everything is trying to **** you. Probability says we shouldn’t be alive, but since we are, I couldn’t imagine we will last too much longer. So maybe there is a light at the end of our cancerous existence?

Thanks so much for writing. I really appreciated reading your perspective.

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1 hour ago, mmoose said:

When God gave humans free will, did God lose omnipotence?   

(serious.  Was just thinking about that yesterday)

From what I gather, only from man’s word about god so take it with a grain of salt, he is still omnipotent because he has the ability to swipe it all away. So then the new question is, do we really have free will? 

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52 minutes ago, MargotMontage said:

You're right. I went to check that part of the New Testament, and Jesus did ask God not to let him die that way. 'Going a little farther, he fell with his face on the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."' (Matthew 26:39). So I guess the question is: which part of that sentence is the more dominant one? The bit where he asks for it not to happen, or the bit where he's willing for it if that's what God wants? Other bits of the scriptures definitely suggest the second part of that passage is the dominant one, but that doesn't mean that what happened to him wasn't brutal and horrifying. (Actually, the whole concept of crucifixion is inhumane, and it wasn't a very efficient or quick way of carrying out capital punishment, so I guess the Romans did it for the humiliation/public display factor, which is pretty disgusting.)

I suppose that you could look at the positive side: that Jesus loved everyone so much that he went and died that way to take the burden off everyone else. That's a lot easier to hold onto than the concept of an alien god who seems cruel and uncaring. There's nothing cruel or uncaring in letting yourself be ****** for the sake of everyone else because you just love them so darn much, warts and all. (Again, I don't know if that's comforting to you, but that's my interpretation.)

Overall, though, I'd agree that the standard modern church really reflects the attitude of the Pharisees/Sadducees. It's very sad.

I have pondered the thought that God is fallible. That man had perversed the image of God through what is written in the Bible. Because Jesus and the God of the Old Testament are in contradiction. But it was under Moses that he said an eye for an eye, it was under him that the commandments were received. But directly out of Jesus’s mouth he quotes mosaic law, “you’ve heard an eye for an eye..” (sorry, I’m too lazy to look up scripture I am paraphrasing) ..”If someone slaps your right cheek, turn to him your left”.

The Bible says he was a pacifist and “a man of sorrows”. Regardless of if he was really the flesh of god, I feel like he must’ve known and endured a pain like no other on earth. Not just in his death but during his life. And I can’t help but ask why? But it’s never met with a equatable response.

It’s hard to not wag my finger at the churches because it feels hypocritical. I’m not perfect by any means, but I am also not trying to portray that I am or that I have the answers. Because I sure don’t. I guess I’m not so much bitter at them, they’re just humans trying to exist as best they can. I’m more so indifferent but I should have more sympathy. 

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Hi Tid322,

I don't have much in the way of wisdom and in the end I think I would end up with just "paper logic" and not much insight.  I am very, very sorry you are beset by such profound difficulties.   I was a philosophy major in the university and know that so many really great minds have wrestled with the thoughts you are having.  - epictetus

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I think that besides free will, evil has been allowed to reign for a time on earth. Yet I also believe that somehow God can turn our bad experiences into something of eternal good if we trust Him. He is powerful enough and His ways are higher than our ways. In the end, I believe God will get revenge on all the evil that has happened and He will turn what was meant for evil, into something good. This life is but a dot on the timeline of eternity.  

BW

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I'm really to the point where I think this is all just random chemistry.  The whole universe is chemistry so maybe everything is just random chemistry.  How could all of this come out of nowhere.  All of what?  What is really so great about any of it?

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13 minutes ago, sober4life said:

I'm really to the point where I think this is all just random chemistry.  The whole universe is chemistry so maybe everything is just random chemistry.  How could all of this come out of nowhere.  All of what?  What is really so great about any of it?

For some reason, this makes me think of the beginning of the 'History of the World, I Guess' video on YouTube. (Sorry, I know you're being serious, but it just struck me.)

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