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Nightjar

Children of narcs refuge.

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Posted (edited)

@sober4life a question for thought.  How can you be an idiot when you have helped many people with your posts and concerns?

An idiot would not care about others going through the same thing. An idiot would not take the time to post and respond on a forum. 

An idiot is someone who  ridicules, humiliates, and harms others  to make themselves feel good and  takes pleasure in others pain.

You are NOT an idiot. You are a compassionate person who has been mistreated by so-called love ones. You have helped me in so many ways with your posts.❤️:hugs:

Quote

I'm not worried about tomorrow.  I'm stronger and smarter than he will ever be.  He still makes fun of me and puts me down because he knows I'm stronger and smarter than him and I have a better life than he has and he can't stand it.

The above words are not the words of an idiot.  YOU are strong and smart!

Edited by nojoy
needed to add the quote

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Thank you that's very sweet of you @nojoyThe truth is I am a compassionate loving person.  The idiot is who I have to see later today.  Yes I could stay home but it's not who I am.  I have to be the good person in the situation and do the "right thing" even if it is like eating large amounts of poison.  I have to go because it's the right thing to do.  Rest and self care before and after but I have to show up to be able to live with myself.  I know he's never had these types of feelings but thank god I do have feelings.  Thank god I'm not like him.  Thank god I had an angel on earth mother that raised me up right and made me a good person!

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Posted (edited)
On 6/12/2019 at 10:32 PM, MarkintheDark said:

With respect, Mikayla, I disagree with your friend.

There are some whose transgressions are so egregious - pedophile priests, for example - that, no, they don't deserve my forgiveness.

In the case of narcissists, they're extremely unlikely to even recognize their transgressions, let alone ask for forgiveness.  It's not in their nature.  My bottom line is that someone has to take the initiative to ask for my forgiveness.  Even then, I've sometimes had to say, "If you're seeking absolution, you're going to have to talk to someone else."

Speaking to my own experience, particularly as someone with depression, there was a period in my life when I got hung up on the whole "forgiveness" thing and that put me into a downward spiral.  If I CAN'T forgive, then I internalize it further that I'm not good enough, I'm broken, and I'm not worthy of my gurus, church, etc.  Put simply, that overly broad, vague "forgiveness" standard is just another way to invalidate my feelings and keep me stuck.

Having jettisoned that standard, I gradually sometimes started to feel it was ok just to be human, flaws and all.  What HAS worked is gaining an understanding, for example, of my narcissist's mindset, as some have already illustrated in this thread.

Frankly, too, I take issue with "the circle of depression will continue."  To my ears, that's dangerous territory for people like us.  It almost sounds patronizing over-simplification.  Depression like ours is a biochemical issue, NOT a matter of willpower.  Yes, tools like CBT or other therapies are useful for some of us but, imo, it keeps coming back to our brain chemistry.

If there is a so-called circle, it's the one in which we keep our anger pent up, whatever the level.  These days I tend to express mine quite freely a good deal of the time.

Thank you Mark for your time. You helped me a lot.

I believe pedophile priests will be judged and God will judge them, surely because I'm not a victim of them, I hope He will be merciful. 

I appreciate if someone can say "sorry" to me.  It's nice. But I'm pleased if the person is able to forgive me too. We all have narcissistic traits after all.

I'm stuck with that forgiveness thing when I'm in withdrawals (I was addicted to clonazepam for more than 10 years) Perhaps I should accept the situation better and not to be so hard on myself. 

I guess my withdrawals (but sometimes I don't understand what's wrong with me) are a biochemical issue I should just accept but I don't think all depressions are caused by chemical imbalance.

 You are absolutely right that it's not right to suppress our emotions but I don't like to hurt others with my anger even if the conflict isn't my fault. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mikayla

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I'm being tough with my family right now.  I'm standing up to them and telling them how it is and that's it.  Of course they try to manipulate me every step of the way but I'm done being used and abused by them.

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1 hour ago, sober4life said:

I did exactly what mom would want me to do on her birthday I cut off dad for good.  I stood up to him took a stand and it's over!

I hope that brings you a measure of peace.  You deserve it.

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It feels very good.  He's the main poison in my life.  He's the main poison in everyone's life he has ever been in.  Now that he's my only parent left I was desperate to have a relationship with him to fill the hole in my heart but he's been manipulating me the whole time since he moved back to town.  It was the last straw when he faked an injury to manipulate me into helping him.

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38 minutes ago, sober4life said:

Now that he's my only parent left I was desperate to have a relationship with him

idk where I heard it, perhaps here or an episode of "Pose."  The gist of it is that those with whom you share genetics are relatives.  Family is the people you choose.  💓

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I agree.  I consider the people here family.  Mom's birthday needs to be a turning point in my life not in a bad way.  From this moment forward I need to be strong and make her proud.  With the rest of my family they have had 40 years to do better in my life.  They should make me feel better now in my time of mourning.  Instead they have made me feel physically and mentally sick and afraid every step of the way.  What the hell kind of life is?

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I more or less told off all of my toxic family yesterday.  Of course it's not that simple.  Over the next couple of weeks I have to do some things and July 4th will be my independence day from all the toxic ones.  They're not all bad.  My brother and I are actually getting pretty close.  My aunt has been very good to me as well.  It's that time in my life where I need to weed out the ones that are trying to bring me down and destroy my life.

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@sober4life

I'm sorry. This is so hard and stressful. It's a miracle we're alive frankly. I go back and fore with thinking about this too, from thinking narc mom needs to go, to thinking that they all need to go because they are all tangled in her toxic web. She gets to me through them a lot of the time too. 

I think maybe it's best to try to keep the good ones. But I get angry with them too because by standing back and allowing her bad behaviour against me, they are complicit.

But I'll probably change my mind tomorrow!

Argh!!

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I don't want to worry people here.  It seems like it's the only thing I'm good at anymore is worrying people.  This process of ridding my life of the toxic people is the hardest thing I've ever done.  Of course it's way more than just saying goodbye.  Of course it's not that easy.  The process will break me if I don't remain strong.  It's taking everything I've got in me.

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35 minutes ago, nojoy said:

@sober4life  You are stronger than you give yourself credit for!

Thank you.  It means a lot to me that people here believe in me.  I never give up.  I'm like the first king in Lord of the Rings.  I will go to battle and fight to the death even if I believe I won't win.  I will never give up.

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53 minutes ago, sober4life said:

I thought I would be free by July 4th yeah right I'm as boxed in right now as I've been so far.  

Oh, I hate to hear that my friend but hopefully you can still enjoy your 4th of July tomorrow

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10 minutes ago, Floor2017 said:

Oh, I hate to hear that my friend but hopefully you can still enjoy your 4th of July tomorrow

I have to make appearances with the goblins I mean with family over the weekend and I messed up my car today so I can't risk taking it out tomorrow or pieces might fall off.  Tomorrow I will have to starve myself I mean diet so I can be "myself" for them over the weekend.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/3/2019 at 10:35 AM, MarkintheDark said:

@Nightjar How are you doing this week?

Hey, @MarkintheDark. Thanks for asking. ...

OK. Well, have you got popcorn? 

Good. Here we go......

NM found out that I had my house on the market and went ballistic on Sunday, throwing everything she could possibly think of at me (verbally, this time) while I was at her house, supposedly for a nice family evening....All I can say is THANK GOD that I meditate. ..

As she got into her malevolent monolgue I stared straight ahead and focused on a tree outside the window. She invited big sis who was also there to join in with the onslaught and made sure to mention how her friends and my father agree about all the things I am doing wrong and all the things that I should be doing, but am not.

This all seemed to stem from the fact that I've put my house up for sale. No, it doesn't make sense. But this is the way narcs operate. She is simply terrified that she is losing control of me and can't stand the fact that I can move without her say so. All she can do is try to destroy my confidence as well as possible so that's what she proceeded to attempt...

I didn't say a word. Not one. I didn't leave. I didn't look at her. I just carried on staring at my tree and attempting stillness. My adrenaline was pumping but I had no desire to retaliate because I know that if I ever do the rage in her would be ignited and all would become nuclear. When you go at it with a narc you'd better be prepared to scream at the top of your lungs because that is where they will take you.

I won't ever do it now (get into a shouting match with her) I did it a couple of times when I was younger and I knew then that I should never do it again.  It was absolutely awful. In spite of the fact I was screaming I was still trying to rationally respond to her attack and come to an understanding. She, however just wanted to attack. There is never any desire to understand, listen to anything or get anything sorted.

So, back to Sunday, I'm there staring at a tree, big sis is there, sitting on the sidelines and NM's angry monologue goes on for about 30 - 40 minutes. (I know this because it takes 40 mins for the Chinese takeaway to arrive and the doorbell signals the end of the outburst).

Big sis sits back and watches mostly, agrees with some of what NM is saying and occasionally makes a slight effort to stick up for me. I'm still staring at the tree obvs but taking it all in. 

I knew well and good that BS (big sis) had been agreeing with NM (Narc mom) about I should do this and that behind my back and I wasn't impressed.  I don't indulge in NM's gossip and attempts to run big sis down when BS is not around. And boy, how she runs her down. To anyone and everyone.

So, eventually after repeating her self a few times and getting no reaction whatsoever from moi and also with the chime of the doorbell with the Chinese delivery, ding dong, ringing like the final bell in a boxing match, narc mom finally pipes down. 

I say have you finished? She goes on a little bit longer and then that's it. I say two sentences. She interrupts. I say let me speak and I say my two sentences. That's it, all I had to say on the matter. It's time to eat so we all head to the kitchen.

I am shell shocked, like I've literally been hit by a bomb and I'm staggering around in the kitchen dishing out the Chinese, heart still thumping. NM is, on the other hand, now elated after 'putting me in my place' and letting off some steam. And she is now acting as if nothing has happened. 

I wolf down my food because a) I'm starving and b) I'm outta there the minute my fork hits the table. So my fork hits the table and I'm thinking I'm done. I'm really done. This is it, the last time. No more of this for me and I do mean narc mom, I definitely don't mean Chinese. 

So, I get up and say, 'Well, it's been lovely but I think I'm gonna head off now'. NM says spitefully 'Yeah, I thought you would' and I'm like 'Well y'know, I can't quite feel relaxed afierce that' and I say goodbye to BS. 

I also say something I can't mention on the way out but it was a one liner and actually quite funny. Go me.  Later, when I go home and fall asleep, I wake up crying in the middle of the night..with a big pang of despair.

Yes, and it's all in the day of a child of a narc.

I feel really sad tonight. I still love them, in spite of how they have hurt me soooooo much. I'm so sad that I'm having to be uprooted again. I don't want to go but I don't feel I have a choice, it's bloody awful being monitored by NM's buddy across the road, being gossiped about and ignored by the neighbours and being constantly harassed at the house by NM. My life has been one long escape from NM. I have spent so much energy just trying to get away from her and her boundary crossing, stalkerish ways. I always think of Coraline the movie when I think of NM. So many similarites. 'She will sew the buttons' 

She's doing everything she can to make life difficult for me now because she can't accept my decision and she really is making my life difficult in ways I won't go into here - though I wish I could. There is a whole other layer to this story which I'm not currently sharing.

I was so stressed with it all the other night, feeling like I've lost my family again, moving stress, estate agent stress 😈 financial stress and long driving stress that as I lay in bed the other night I was having to force myself to breathe properly, I was having these little panicky breaths and they were keeping me from falling asleep.....I got there in the end with some forced deep breathing and got myself to sleep. Thank god again. 

I'm OK, I've done yoga today which always helps and had a good little walk. I'm taking it one step at a time. There is big change going on in my life but it must be what the doctor ordered I suppose. No rest for these children of narcs I suppose huh?

Yes, I'm feeling sorry for myself, but sadness beats depression in my book. I'm not feeling depressed at least and I can do what I need to, to move things forward. It's just such a sad situation isn't it, when your family are shits?

Edited by Nightjar

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Posted (edited)

I am beyond impressed @Nightjar at what you've been doing...and that, painful as it might have been, you've shared so much detail.  I hope it was somewhat cathartic.  I don't get the impression at all that you're feeling sorry for yourself.  You're exhausted.  And rightfully so.  You're doing remarkable work, imo, and I'm all but certain you'll see dividends from the effort.  I wish I could respond in kind to the intensity of the feelings you expressed.  Nevertheless, some train of thought...

In my own NM experience, I'm familiar with the rages, hijacking "conversations" and, best I can describe it, inciting her "mob."  Reminds me of a nightmare version of "The Scarlet Letter."   One of the worst, to which you can perhaps relate, was when she'd refer to me in the third person in front of everyone.  I was at about where you are now.  I firmly told her that was just downright rude.  Nevertheless, she couldn't make the distinction between angry and assertive.  All there was, in her mind, were attacks.  Ridiculous.  (As an aside, Casper Milqtoast hubby #3 would then drift off to talk about something like the roof...yes, I'm serious!).

I can't begin to address all of it, right down to the Chinese, Coraline, and the spying neighbor...except that the stress is almost unimaginable.  Putting the place on the market is a huge step.  My casual assessment is that NM knows the jig is up and is getting in her last licks.  Much the same as my experience - and that was about 30 years ago - I'm still confounded at how ANY mother could act that way.

Part of the shock to my system, with both the NM and birthmother, was that someone had to be the adult in the room...and it turned out to be me.

I hope you can draw strength from the tenacity and resolve you've already demonstrated.  It sure as hell has impressed me.

idk if this is the case with you, but mine also tried sometimes then putting on her "nice" act to get me to drop my guard...which, unfortunately, I was naive enough to do a couple times.  When, instead, I stood my ground, that was simply more ammunition for her that I was "ungrateful," etc. 

What I learn in the cases with both mothers is that they were simply incapable of doing things any other way.  I mention that b/c it helped me calmly move forward with what I needed to do for myself, regardless of the outbursts or other manipulations.  I've called it channeling my Inner Spock.  It also helped I just quit caring about the off-the-rails reactions.  They were irrelevant to my goals.

You've mentioned breathing, panic, yoga.  Now, this may sound ridiculous, but have you considered MMA or something else physically-exerting as an outlet?  MMA just came to mind because some people to whom I spoken have found it to be a really diverse culture and solid community these days.

As much work as it is right now, you're doing a remarkable job.

Edited by MarkintheDark

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On 7/4/2019 at 2:14 PM, Nightjar said:

I say have you finished?

I'm reminded of the Dowager Countess of Grantham, a character from TV's Dowton Abbey. "Are you quite finished?"  😐 delivered calmly after somebody throws a tantrum.

Because your NM hardly stops to take a breath during her rantings, it's hardly possible for you to get a couple of words in. For people like her, I keep in my wallet some white business cards with nothing but the words Stop Talking printed on them. Can be purchased at seteditions.com and yes, the reaction to receiving this card can be explosive. But often hilarious.

I'm really sorry your dinner evening with family was hijacked and you had to sit through abuse and berating. That's awful. I wondered whether you were going to make it until the food arrived. I asked myself, would I? For Chinese takeaway, yes I would. Yum. 

I got to admire how you kept your composure that had to have been so difficult. 

 

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I wasn't able to stay away from them this weekend.  I'm very lonely and desperate for a connection with someone in real life.  They made me sick and I had to run back here and hide in bed afterwards.  I'm very broken hearted and lonely right now.  I can't live a life feeling like there is always nobody there.  It's ******* me and driving me insane.  Of course they aren't the answer but nobody is the answer anymore.  I honestly don't believe that I will ever have a friend or significant other in real life again.  I can't live a life like this forever.

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