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gandolfication

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) Thread

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19 hours ago, Asta said:

Oh no, I don't think you look like an ahole.   I think my sense of humor is broken, it's sad, I'm sorry. 

Ah, you may just need some dark humor.  Dry humor works too.

My last comment here was meant halfheartedly humorously.

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11 hours ago, Sophy said:

One of my previous ex's worked in theatre and knew a lot of actors.

I've met quite a few actors/ musicians/ artists too over the years and I think that these are jobs with very high rates of BPD compared to the general population.

I've heard actors say that BPD almost pre-determines them for the job, cos they are a) so good at acting and b) so good taking on a role.

And I think the whole "What is my image?" and "What is my style?" thing features heavily there too in terms of the underlying question "Who am I?"

But as @Natasha1 pointed out, these are of course generalisations.

It would be equally untrue/ ridiculous to make generalised statements about ppl with depression.

But in terms of trying to "grasp" BPD, because it's so much harder to understand than depression, I guess these kind of "broad brushstrokes" descriptions are a way of trying to reach that understanding/ description.

 

I was thinking that a lot of people on the BPD spectrum wouldn't have the wherewithal to pull this off.  But then again, this makes sense I guess.  Looking at it as a continuum from bipolar to BPD to Schizophrenia (which with some oversimplicity I think is how these are viewed), this makes more sense.

Kay Jamison's book, Touched With Fire is one big narrative and case study on how manic illness and artistic temperament simply go together.  Not always, but extremely often enough to merit a strong correlation and most likely even some causal relationship.

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34 minutes ago, Asta said:

Yeah, it's really hard for me to tell if someone is joking in writing too.

Do you mean that the spectrum goes from bipolar to BPD to Schizophrenia?  I think those are completely different things.  There aren't any medications that can help BPD. 

There's this weird thing where acting like the person makes them like you more.  I will even pick up a person's accent on accident, so, I'm pretty good at doing impressions.  BPD are good actors because they're good at impersonating other people.  I guess I don't think of it as being artistic. 

"Do you mean that the spectrum goes from bipolar to BPD to Schizophrenia?  I think those are completely different things.  There aren't any medications that can help BPD."

Yes, that is what I mean.  They are treated and described in many ways as on a continuum, and even one evolving over time along this continuum.  

I do know there are big differences.  Both DSM 4 and 5 and the profession, nonetheless, do treat them as close cousins in many ways.  To wit, my own doctors and therapists over years wondering and weighing if I am really more bipolar or more BPD?  And we do I think pretty much know that if and as manic illness deteriorates, it eventually merged into schizophrenia, where the line disappears.

These are crude oversimplifications (and there may also be fierce and widespread disagreement), but they are also not without grounding in the professional literature.

The acting like others thing is fascinating to me.  We all do it to some extent - we even now know some interesting things about how mirror neurons actually scientifically make another person respond to it - it's the basis for neuro linguistic programming (social engineering), sometimes legitimate, sometimes flim flam, but always fascinating.

I too, am a bit of a Zelig in certain ways (Woody Allen's character who always took on the personalities and affectations of those around her, like an overactive peer pressure desire to be accepted).  I tend to be able to imitate people easily and well.  

Sometime recently, I heard an entertainer say something like, we have one face, but a thousand masks.  

Zig Ziglar used to tell the story of a famous comedian in the 70's who did lots of great impressions, and an interviewer once asked him, do you ever find yourself imitating all these other people in all their combinations, and you lose track of who you are?  And the guy went a little pale and said, 'yes.'

I don't think there's any moral to that story, I just find it poignant.  

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33 minutes ago, Asta said:

@Sophy   I can't figure out my style, I think I have a different style every day.  Then there's impulsive shopping, I kind of do that but not so much that I run out of money.  The beauty routine I feel I need to do is overwhelming to me now.  I'll get very preoccupied with one thing like having shiny hair.  I'll feel like theirs something wrong with me and I need to fix it. 

I have almost exactly the same kind of shopping thing - I don't go crazy, or buy a bunch of useless stuff, but I also have great difficulty not buying things I want or think I need.  I view it as reduced impulse control, as well as trying to medicate with something I'm just sure will work, but anyway, it sounds similar.

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Just now, Asta said:

I've never been manic so that's another reason I think they are very different. My friend was diagnosed with bipolar and BPD at the same time.  It seems like bipolar and Schizophrenia happen to people out of nowhere, BDP has a situational cause.   I think they each have their own continuum of severity.  Is manic episodes even part of BPD or is it just like mood swings?  

I don't think mania technically goes with BPD, though as you point out, BPD does have its own freequent volatile mood swings (so how different is this part really?).

Even within manic illness, there is the continuum from hypomania (mild) to full blown mania.

Life, it seems, is a seamless web.

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2 hours ago, Asta said:

I looked this up because it was bothering me.  All I could find is that BPD tends to be comorbid with bipolar and schizophrenia, like how anxiety is comorbid with major depression. One-third of BPD also seem to have schizophrenia and 20% of people with bipolar II have BPD.  I also found that there are studies being done because drug companies want to start giving mood stabilizers to people with BPD. 

Isn't it fair to say then that there is major overlap between these and that many people exhibit symptoms of both?

I concede I am deliberately not using clinical precision....and this is an area where I find clinical precision to be no more good than it's ever-changing definitions, understandings, and frankly, a very false sense of understanding of the actual underpinnings at least of the manic disorders, with which I am most familiar and read myself by far.

When I say I think we're we are still in the dark ages in understanding, much less treating seveer depression, it stems from the experience of SO MANY here, and my own. Refractory depression is not rare.  Antidepressants are a show for so many and I actually believe most.  Drug companies cherry pick only their most complimentary studies, and bury the rest, and most sufferers can scarcely of at all tell the difference between a placebo, even while I'm very glad for those antidepressants (ads) really help.

You'll have to excuse the fact that yes, my own experience where ads have been a nulity or a negative, obviously leads to some confirmation bias, but conclusions aren't necessarily wrong because they might be colored by confirmation bias.

Besides, I almost invariably remain on ads because it is all modern psychaitry will do, and because I'd give up limbs if they ever did help.  But ive never had one help even a tiny little bit.  Zero.

Anyhow, I didn't mean to concert this to some conversation or debate about ads, once in a while I just need to vent at how impoverished and ineffective I think they really are, and they're all the profession offers really now.  So easy, so profitable, so hard and subjective to measure, so many warnings they may INCREASE suicidality, etc.  But profit supercedes all.  There, I got that rant out for now.... apologies, I do feel p***** I've been given so many of these deugs after showing psychs, mountains and years of evidence that they do not work for me.

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19 minutes ago, Asta said:

From what I was reading (I had to stop because it was making me too angry) BPD shares symptoms from lots of different mental disorders.  The main reason they want to make it like bipolar is that Dr's don't want to work with people that have BPD, they think it will reduce the stigma and mood stabilizers are better than doing nothing.  I don't know why what I was reading didn't talk about DBT at all.  Also a lot of DR's think it's so confusing that it's like the other disorders they don't want it to be its own disorder.  The argument for Bipolar ignored the cause of BPD and looked at the symptoms single like they happened out of nowhere and made no sense. 

I already take ADs for major depression, I don't want to take a mood stabilizer too. 

Yeah, I wish they understood the cause of more of the disorders.  in this way, I think they actually understand BPD more than the other ones.  They act like it's a confusing mess, maybe they all are. 

Interesting, sad.

I tend to think there are some unanswerable questions (what is infinity, is there a god, why does Johnny Depp keep making s***ty movies, etc).

I view people as very largely incomprehensible ultimately....I hope this doesn't sound arrogant or sour grapes...it probably has something to do with a background more comfortable with splitting hairs, eliminating ambiguity and vagueness and reducing things until everything is at least describable, if not quantifiable

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1 hour ago, Asta said:

I thought everyone that had my childhood experience would have mental disorders but it turns out only one third does.  Scientists did a 25-year study, two-thirds of the kids grew up to be happy and healthy.

Makes sense, despite our tendency to think of people as blank slates this simply isn't true. Some are born stronger than others, the ones who are more resilient will often be able to withstand a higher level of abuse than someone who's rather vulnerable or genetically predisposed. Nature doesn't care about egalitarianism. 

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I've done tons of reasearch on kids and trauma over the decades.

The research shows that what seems to matter for kids is whether they have (at least) ONE sane/ stable/ caring/ supportive person, they can cling to.

It doesn't "matter" whether 10 or 20 people are treating you abusively as you grow up, as long as you have ONE (or more, of course) people you can turn to to help you "cope" with the madness and horror and who will help you grow and heal.

(I'm using "matter" loosely here. Of course it matters. What I mean is in terms of the statistical outcome of survive and thrive or suffer and despair.)

What seems to be totally destructive and debilitating is when kids are exposed to people treating them abusively and there is simply NO ONE they can turn to AT ALL. There is not a single safe or caring person in the entire environment that is willing to connect to the kid in a supportive manner.

THAT seems to be what drives kids into utter despair.

 

So apart from the general fact that that the severity of what issues kids are exposed to can vary and the natural coping skills a child has can vary, this "Is there at least ONE caring/ kind person?" thing seems to make the massive difference in the statistics of does someone grow and heal and do well, or is someone f*****ed up for decades.

 

Edited by Sophy

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1 hour ago, sober4life said:

When I'm hypo manic I feel pretty good about myself.  My self esteem is either very high or at zero.

Hell yah.  Hypomania. Is the best.  Maybe I'm not supposed to say that but it absolutely is, especially when it can be channeled into actual productivity with a lot of artists and some other people are able to do. I was able to do in college and law school to great effect...I just had no idea it was the early precursors for bipolar disorder, which seems a little funny now.

And I miss the sh*t out of it.  Along with my religious and political zeal of the time, it was the most potent force I have ever experienced, and nothing else comes close...better than any drug I've ever tried...which in terms of formerly ilicit drugs is only 1 I guess.

Anyhow, in the past at times, I've.tried my damnedest to induce hypomania in myself, with sort of success... Meaning that I have been at least able to stimulate I started the same period of high-energy inactivity and a little bit better feeling almost always directed at some specific purpose, and then much as I don't want two advantages into some level of crash.

I think I've had really only had 1 episode of what I'd call high-level hypomania (i.e. almost full mania)...whish is why my diagnosis is BP II.

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8 hours ago, gandolfication said:

Hell yah.  Hypomania. Is the best.  Maybe I'm not supposed to say that but it absolutely is, especially when it can be channeled into actual productivity with a lot of artists and some other people are able to do. I was able to do in college and law school to great effect...I just had no idea it was the early precursors for bipolar disorder, which seems a little funny now.

And I miss the sh*t out of it.  Along with my religious and political zeal of the time, it was the most potent force I have ever experienced, and nothing else comes close...better than any drug I've ever tried...which in terms of formerly ilicit drugs is only 1 I guess.

Anyhow, in the past at times, I've.tried my damnedest to induce hypomania in myself, with sort of success... Meaning that I have been at least able to stimulate I started the same period of high-energy inactivity and a little bit better feeling almost always directed at some specific purpose, and then much as I don't want two advantages into some level of crash.

I think I've had really only had 1 episode of what I'd call high-level hypomania (i.e. almost full mania)...whish is why my diagnosis is BP II.

You are right it is the best.  I don't have it much anymore.  I got it when I drank and I had it in early sobriety and I channeled it into exercise to lose lots of weight.  Channeling it is very hard to do.  Getting control can be impossible. I enjoy hypomania but at the same time am scared of it because I can set records with addictive things during that time.

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9 hours ago, sober4life said:

You are right it is the best.  I don't have it much anymore.  I got it when I drank and I had it in early sobriety and I channeled it into exercise to lose lots of weight.  Channeling it is very hard to do.  Getting control can be impossible. I enjoy hypomania but at the same time am scared of it because I can set records with addictive things during that time.

I know exactly what you mean.

Yah, I too am somewhat--ok a lot--scared of it, but still much less than how scared I am of constant major depression.

I guess what I've found is that I have been able to channel and even 'control' pretty well, when and IF I am engaged in a life--especially a job*--that bears some fulfillment.  And most of this, I admit, was in the first 32-ish years of my life.  And that may be another way of saying that the onset and progression of this disease has gotten worse for me over time as it often does as we age.

*This is one big reason I am considering possibly moving back home and starting up a form of law practice again with a former classmate of mine who still a good friend.

Edited by gandolfication

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Spoiler

 

The last week of October 2013 I was diagnosed with major depression, ptsd and bpd by a psychiatrist from one of  the psych hospitals in the city. At the time i was trying to understand my depression and ptsd. I went to countless therapists and did cbt. OK I've learned about my triggers and how they affected me with both.

Last year i tried to get back into cbt but didn't get anything from it. I felt lost, lonely with recurrent past negative situations going through my thoughts. I was dating a man who manipulated and abused me.I finally left after 4 years of thinking he loved me. In fact all my past relationships failed. After going through couple job failures which at the time i thought i could handle a full time job. I only lasted a couple months due to conflict of the negative sort that sent me packing. I would get angry and start thinking that i don't need to go through that $&&#. And the big crash/ depression would happen where i avoided the world for over a year. 

I feel stupid because i finally realised  i have Boarderline Personality Disorder. Ta-dah! (smirk! after 6 years of being diagnosed) I went online to read about the bpd then went to the library and took out a book, Why I Act Crazy At Times. I'm still reading the cause, effect, reaction and that little light inside me would go bing! yes that's me, bing! yes again that's me. 

I tell ya it hurts physically and mentally.It's been far more debilitating than  just knowing  about the other two symptoms. Self loathing is stronger now and affects what I eat. I feel more lonely. 

Sigh!!!! right another battle to fight. I've gone past self pity and now i am preparing for the worst as i read more. I'll keep you updated - at the moment i feel the stress between my shoulders.

I wish it was easy to find some kind of help, I'm over talk therapy and in need of a different kind of help.....

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I've noticed how my old habits of when i was young has been creeping  back into my thoughts - i use to be anorexic and bulimic. My eating habits have been for simple carbohydrates of late. I would eat a light breakfast and leave to do errands with a bottle of water so that when my day extended i would drink water when i felt hungry. All the while my mind is preoccupied with , 'i wonder what i can eat' whilst  getting errands done. I would convince myself to buy cinnamon buns. Once home in the evening i would feed my dogs and then glutton out on a dozen cinnamon buns. Sometimes i would buy two or three when they are discounted because they were stale and this is what i would have to eat all day. I tell myself this is ok yet my mind is lingering on my stomach making me feel fat.... as always. I wish i could stop thinking this way and learn to love my body

Good gawd where is the strength and determination i use to have to stay fit and eat properly. Oh yeah it went out the door the moment i decided to stop looking for a partner. 

I should keep myself fit. Do it for me not some guy < this is my concious talking to me. At the moment i don't want to listen to sensibility as  self loathing is at the forefront of late.....

 

And the battle continues......

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Borderline Personality Disorder as well as anxiety and depression have taken over my life. I am 21 married with a 7 month old. It is often very chaotic in my household the other half of the time it is so blissful and you can feel the deep chemistry between my husband and I. We believe in soul mates (judge is you will , lol) We love our daughter to death. That is the hardest thing for me - the guilt of having this disorder and showing my family "the other side" of me. I am always ashamed of my actions. Two years ago after a failed suicide attempt I was diagnosed with bpd. I had trouble understanding exactly what it was so I did some research.  I still don't understand some parts of it but I seem to understand much better now.  I have a majority of the symtoms, they have worsened over two years I would say. I had a few signs as a child and teen but not enough to fit the full criteria until now.  Let me tell you it has been a hard road, only now I am getting the proper help. I have been put on Seraquel and Cymbolta, the cymbotla is more for anxiety and depression and the Seraquel is more for the bpd symptoms. My marriage to my husband is often described as unique and beautiful, we share and profound bound to each other that is unlike anything I have ever experienced. When I have my episodes it is hard on both of us. I have rage issues and I say and do hurtful things. Somehow he is still here. I am so grateful for his love and protection of me. Relationships with borderline can be very difficult and draining but not impossible. If you have the love and support you need you will get through it. I often have unresolved feelings towards my family who I no longer speak to or interact with. My family were very abusive and not supportive of me. My older brother used to beat me every time I said something wrong. I am afraid of turning into him because when my husband says something I take it personally or misconstrue it and just snap...the shame and guilt afterwards is unbearable. I just feel so damn trapped. Getting help takes so long and I can't afford to do any more damage. Ever since I have been diagnosed it all makes sense, my inappropriate anger towards small things, certain behaviours and insecurities that I have. I am on my second day of cymbotla so I am hoping that will help with the anxiety and depression so I can focus on working on the bpd alone. Not sure if cymbolta helps with bpd but Seraquel does so we have increased my dose from 25 to 50mgs then maybe up to 100mgs and see how that goes in conjuntion with DBT. 

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