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Tired, getting through another day


gandolfication

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Life goes in cycles.  Many of us feel like our depression never really lifts (I've felt like that most of the time...hard to tell how literally true it is....probably not for me).

One of the things I have is Bi-polar II (the more 'mild' kind in terms of manic extremes).  Lately I have had somewhat of an upswing in energy, manufactured energy at least this time, because I have needed to.  We're barely surviving financially, emotionally and in other ways.  So I've been doing a lot...paid tutoring law students on the weekends, working a lot, doing stuff with the family etc.  Trying to read at night when I can, listening to more positive stuff in the car, etc.

It's all good, but it's just like a law of gravity, that at some point, I hit walls and fall on my back.  Last night was a tough one.  Lot going on trying to stay solvent, in our rented house, keeping a job (which I know over time will ware me the h*ll out).

I have a therapist.  I like her, but availability and access isn't great.  And I feel isolated...like I'm gullible *****, for again believing I can overcome this fine madness.  It does seem like nothing ever really gets any better, just deteriorates like entropy of the mind and soul (which from a pure materialist point of view, I guess it does ultimately).

Well, anyhow, hopefully I'll bounce back.  I love my wife and kids.  In theory, there's some hope.  I have some things going for me, it's just hard to see.  Staying even at all is a heavy lift.  Had some good activities at work actually....but you know how it is with depression....I discount, I project, I rationalize...they weren't perfect, weren't enough...sure I still have talent, intelligence, ability, but give it a minute, it'll be wasted, I'll self-sabotage.  There are some good people I work with, but--and I know I need to do something to change this perspective--I think my immediate boss is a pretty horrible person I am going to HATE!  I'm not sure if it's me, but we seem like oil and water.  I do not try to act smarter than anyone, but I think I do try to put on a happy face that probably comes across as glib. I feel like I almost have to, because to be the real me, to dare say anything close to what I'm actually feeling and thinking is of course absolutely socially unacceptable anywhere, let alone at work.   Or maybe I even come across as a little, 'know-it-all,' which mortifies me if correct.  It's not what I'm going for at all.  I'm just trying to show enthusiasm and that I'm engaged, trying, working hard, being smart, bringing my "A-game" which includes some recruiting experience and knowledge, doing my best, etc.  Anyway, I don't know if I've actually already done something to rub my boss the wrong way, or its just her, and she's maybe struggling.  She's a former restaurant server/bar tender they recruited and promoted to an Account Manager, and I'm a lawyer trying to maintain interest and a good attitude while struggling with wanting to end my life all the time out of inferiority and a bunch of other sh*t.  I don't expect us to be pals, but would appreciate not being talked down to and treated with passive aggression right out of the gate.  

Disturbing thing is I really don't know how much is in my mind, or just a personal preference, personality, etc., or if she's really an awful person.  And does it matter?  Perhaps not.  Maybe all that matters is what I do.  How I handle it.  Maybe I'll just re-read a list of professional wisdom I'd asked my dad for a few years back.  No one says things as clearly and concisely as him.  It's always both illuminating, humbling, motivating and unnerving all at once.

Well, here's to getting through the day in one piece.

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Gandolf, so good to hear from you.  I’ve been away from these forums for a few weeks, maybe a few months. It’s hard to tell.  But here I am again and I’m finding that I need to go somewhere where I can be myself.  Crazy how this stuff comes and goes in waves.  You think you’re doing ok. Heck, even doing pretty good on some days. Other days you struggle but you fight on and get through it. But then it finally comes crashing down and you find yourself back in that place. What was the trigger this time? Or maybe there was no trigger at all - it just happened. Maybe it’s your true self and your charade just finally ran out of steam.  I don’t know. But here I am again.

It’s nice to see a familiar name. I have always enjoyed your writings because you describe things in such a tangible manner.  I can definitley grasp what you’re struggling with - the exhausting effort maintaining a professional persona, the struggle to interact with others, the battle to hide your real personality, the difficulties of your job, the responsibilities of caring for a family.  I truly feel for you. Hang in there. I have no real words of encouragement for you because I don’t know what I can say beyond the usual platitudes. But in a way it sounds like you’re sort of on top of things. You’re dealing with life all the while carrying around that unwieldy bag of depression. One image I think of to help me, as cornball as it may sound, is that of the warrior. The person who fights on day after day after day because that is what they are - a warrior. There is strength and virtue in that role.

I also can tell just how much you care about your family.  They seem like a true source of hope for you. That’s awesome. For me, that is the only thing that keeps me in this world.  My wife is the sole determiner of my sanity. She goes through phases where she is mean, resentful, maybe even mentally abusive. When those days come any tidbit of resiliency I might have had is gone and those days become my darkest. Thankfully, she has been in very good spirits in past months so my family life has been normal. Incredibly stressful, but thankfully normal.  My children, well, if it wasn’t for them I’d have left the world probably 2 or 3 years ago. I love them to death but at the same time they are my curse. It’s because of them that I have to suffer each day (as opposed to taking the easy way out.) But at the same time they are my blessing because they are what keep me alive. It’s nuts how those ideas interact with each other.

How does one deal with depression like we have and suppress the hyper-critical thoughts we have about our true selves while engaging day after day with “healthy” people in the professional workplace? I get amazed at myself that I am able to get through each day. Get through each week.  I wonder how long until my body runs out of will.  Sounds like you are doing the same thing. Struggling to deal with people you’re not quite sure about. I also wonder all the time whether I judge my coworkers correctly. Maybe people I don’t respect are seen that way by me because of a defense mechanism. I can’t respect them because doing so would acknowledge their capability, and my lack of, and that would send me deeper down the spiral. Or maybe these people are just poor performers that shouldn’t be respected. That’s been one of the biggest casualties from depression - my inability to truly trust my judgement. I never seem to know who is doing the talking - the true me (whoever that is) or the depression.

But we fight on. Day after day. Hang in there brother.  Enjoy your family and those blessings because that can be a huge source of positive.

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2 hours ago, MtnDreams said:

Gandolf, so good to hear from you.  I’ve been away from these forums for a few weeks, maybe a few months. It’s hard to tell.  But here I am again and I’m finding that I need to go somewhere where I can be myself.  Crazy how this stuff comes and goes in waves.  You think you’re doing ok. Heck, even doing pretty good on some days. Other days you struggle but you fight on and get through it. But then it finally comes crashing down and you find yourself back in that place. What was the trigger this time? Or maybe there was no trigger at all - it just happened. Maybe it’s your true self and your charade just finally ran out of steam.  I don’t know. But here I am again.

It’s nice to see a familiar name. I have always enjoyed your writings because you describe things in such a tangible manner.  I can definitley grasp what you’re struggling with - the exhausting effort maintaining a professional persona, the struggle to interact with others, the battle to hide your real personality, the difficulties of your job, the responsibilities of caring for a family.  I truly feel for you. Hang in there. I have no real words of encouragement for you because I don’t know what I can say beyond the usual platitudes. But in a way it sounds like you’re sort of on top of things. You’re dealing with life all the while carrying around that unwieldy bag of depression. One image I think of to help me, as cornball as it may sound, is that of the warrior. The person who fights on day after day after day because that is what they are - a warrior. There is strength and virtue in that role.

I also can tell just how much you care about your family.  They seem like a true source of hope for you. That’s awesome. For me, that is the only thing that keeps me in this world.  My wife is the sole determiner of my sanity. She goes through phases where she is mean, resentful, maybe even mentally abusive. When those days come any tidbit of resiliency I might have had is gone and those days become my darkest. Thankfully, she has been in very good spirits in past months so my family life has been normal. Incredibly stressful, but thankfully normal.  My children, well, if it wasn’t for them I’d have left the world probably 2 or 3 years ago. I love them to death but at the same time they are my curse. It’s because of them that I have to suffer each day (as opposed to taking the easy way out.) But at the same time they are my blessing because they are what keep me alive. It’s nuts how those ideas interact with each other.

How does one deal with depression like we have and suppress the hyper-critical thoughts we have about our true selves while engaging day after day with “healthy” people in the professional workplace? I get amazed at myself that I am able to get through each day. Get through each week.  I wonder how long until my body runs out of will.  Sounds like you are doing the same thing. Struggling to deal with people you’re not quite sure about. I also wonder all the time whether I judge my coworkers correctly. Maybe people I don’t respect are seen that way by me because of a defense mechanism. I can’t respect them because doing so would acknowledge their capability, and my lack of, and that would send me deeper down the spiral. Or maybe these people are just poor performers that shouldn’t be respected. That’s been one of the biggest casualties from depression - my inability to truly trust my judgement. I never seem to know who is doing the talking - the true me (whoever that is) or the depression.

But we fight on. Day after day. Hang in there brother.  Enjoy your family and those blessings because that can be a huge source of positive.

MtnDreams,

Yah, that's exactly it.  Last night, I just gave my daughter a pep talk about "the battle to hide your real personality."  She's just shy in group situations, so it isn't overly serious, but it probably feels like it to her...and I'm pretty sure she follows a lot of my tenancies.  Anyway, this all resonates.

Trigger(s)?  Hard to say for me, I just cyclically get worn down.  Unrealistic expectations, perfectionism, feeling worthless if I can't keep working, failures, etc.

I'm just quoting a few of your passages that resonate, and that I like here:

"Maybe it’s your true self and your charade just finally ran out of steam."

"....But then it finally comes crashing down and you find yourself back in that place..."

"One image I think of to help me, as cornball as it may sound, is that of the warrior."
This one's particularly funny because on the one hand, I like the mental picture of the "happy warrior" in politics or T. Roosevelt's famous "Man in the Arena" image.
On the other hand, my CEO uses some (to me) ultra-cheesy catch phrases, and one of them is "Live like a Warrior," with which he signs off motivational emails, etc.  Ew (in this context).

"My wife is the sole determiner of my sanity. She goes through phases where she is mean, resentful, maybe even mentally abusive. When those days come any tidbit of resiliency I might have had is gone and those days become my darkest."

That's awful, I'm sorry.  I'm afraid I am probably closer to that (despite not wanting to) between my wife and I.  It's something close to borderline personality disorder.  I work on it. I hate it.  I wish I could say there was no truth to it.  The degree of guilt, shame, anger, I feel over it, is overwhelming...and I have actually tried very hard to change it, with very inconsistent/imperfect results.

"My children, well, if it wasn’t for them I’d have left the world probably 2 or 3 years ago. I love them to death but at the same time they are my curse. It’s because of them that I have to suffer each day (as opposed to taking the easy way out.) But at the same time they are my blessing because they are what keep me alive."

I know exactly what you mean.  My kids (the last of which was a very big surprise) are my life, but at the same time, I can't avoid the reality that I'm chickening myself trying to support us all.  It's madness.

"That’s been one of the biggest casualties from depression - my inability to truly trust my judgement."

This is so true for me too.  The realization that I might not be perceiving reality accurately is such a deep cut, right to the heart of ego, self esteem, basic trust of anything, etc.

Thanks for your message; I needed it.  You hang in there too.  We'll do it together somehow.

 

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Getting through the tough stuff, and doing some good stuff within it.  (I suppose that's one description of life).

I am struggling to stay engaged, care and concentrate today...this is fairly typical, but I still hate it.  Last few days, I've at least done well, controlling my activity/performance by tracking # of calls, and # of times I resisted the urge to distraction (which added up to a lot - and consequently felt good, albeit is tiring).

Back to it....

Hope everyone here is having a good or at least okay day.

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This is a great blog of sorts. As are most of the posts you make to start various threads! There is so much that I relate to in your posts but I cannot put things into words as well as you do. But I do nod my head vigorously while reading your stuff. Hahaha.

We are in similar situations. My ex and daughter live in the house that has been through several refinancings because of very deep debt (another story for another time). I'm paying a large amount towards that on a monthly basis, even though I live in an apartment. My daughter is in college and I pay a lot of her tuition and other costs associated with going to the university. She is also on my healthcare plan for another 3 years, so I'm nailed down for at least that long.

Meanwhile, I struggle to function at work. I generally can't keep up with the avalanche of shee-it that rolls down onto me. And I resent my boss for his constant "check ins". I'm sick of politics, both internal and external.

I'm stretched so d@mned tight all of the time. It really gets to me.

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Hi gandolf. A consistent thought ive had in recent years, is that my core beliefs are hard to overcome. I can realize when im thinking badly. I know how to make changes. I feel i have had to evolve to this pain. Ive been sober for a couple years now, and even though i overcame something great, i never was able to change how i felt about this world. I have a son and parents and a bro who i have great relations with now. I work a lot. By my actions, maybe i could be seen as a good person. But deep down, i really dont like a lot in this world. Certainly most of its people. For me, it feels like im stuck at this point of recovery. Happiness just hard to come by when i look at the world in dismay.  I too wonder, if there is a decent end game here.

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5 hours ago, JD4010 said:

This is a great blog of sorts. As are most of the posts you make to start various threads! There is so much that I relate to in your posts but I cannot put things into words as well as you do. But I do nod my head vigorously while reading your stuff. Hahaha.

We are in similar situations. My ex and daughter live in the house that has been through several refinancings because of very deep debt (another story for another time). I'm paying a large amount towards that on a monthly basis, even though I live in an apartment. My daughter is in college and I pay a lot of her tuition and other costs associated with going to the university. She is also on my healthcare plan for another 3 years, so I'm nailed down for at least that long.

Meanwhile, I struggle to function at work. I generally can't keep up with the avalanche of shee-it that rolls down onto me. And I resent my boss for his constant "check ins". I'm sick of politics, both internal and external.

I'm stretched so d@mned tight all of the time. It really gets to me.

"I'm stretched so d@mned tight all of the time."
Yah, that's it, in a sentence.  That's it.

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3 hours ago, glfinding said:

Hi gandolf. A consistent thought ive had in recent years, is that my core beliefs are hard to overcome. I can realize when im thinking badly. I know how to make changes. I feel i have had to evolve to this pain. Ive been sober for a couple years now, and even though i overcame something great, i never was able to change how i felt about this world. I have a son and parents and a bro who i have great relations with now. I work a lot. By my actions, maybe i could be seen as a good person. But deep down, i really dont like a lot in this world. Certainly most of its people. For me, it feels like im stuck at this point of recovery. Happiness just hard to come by when i look at the world in dismay.  I too wonder, if there is a decent end game here.

I really enjoyed reading that (even though that sounds like the wrong word). 

"and even though i overcame something great, i never was able to change how i felt about this world."

I'm reading this book, Awareness: The Perils and Opportunities of Reality. It's major theme is awakening (but most people don't want to be awake - that's an easy one).  It's kind of acerbic in its unflinching look at reality, especially for a nominally spiritual book written by a Catholic priest-turned-mystic.  Here's a taste:

  • Everyone is selfish. All the time.  Our most basic instinct of self-preservation demands it.  Accept it.  So stop feeling bad about being selfish.
  • We don't really want to be happy without our conditions...e,g. provided I have this and that and the other thing.
  • People going to a therapist don't really want to be cured--that would be painful.  They merely want relief (the author is also a therapist).
  • Every great idea starts out as blasphemy (citing Bertrand Russell)
  • There's no need to renounce things, including vices, it only binds us closer to them. (I like this one)
  • On "Our Illusion About Others"....."You thought people were nice. They're not!  They're not nice."

It fits together a bit better in the book I think, but half of me is laughing while I read it, going, "Oh, yah, duh, that's right...I just didn't expect to hear that here."  And the other half of me, I confess is waiting for some wizened 'answer' to it all.  I should probably quit waiting and expecting that since he's already said in reference to the way we want to hope and rely on other people:

"We want to lean on someone, don't we?  We want to lean on anybody we think has arrived.  We love to hear that people have arrived.  It gives us hope, doesn't it?  You want to hope for something better than what you have right now...otherwise you wouldn't be hoping.  But then, you forget that you have it all right now anyway, and you don't know it."

Well, well.  Kinda makes me want to put the book down and go out and exercise, since at least I know that usually makes me feel better.

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Although my depression over the years last weeks to just a few months, one of the most incredible ways I have learned to live, is by learning to love.  That is: being patient and kind, not being jealous or boastful or proud or rude, not demanding, never giving up, always being hopeful and enduring through every circumstance.

As I continue to learn to live and love like, I get blessed with an amazing joy and peace that surpasses all understanding.  

Desmond Tutu once said ‘Hope is being able to see that there is light despite all of the darkness.’

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11 hours ago, Rozzie86 said:

Sounds like a great book.  Just know we're all behind you as you get through it day by day.  I try to take my job hour by hour.

Smart.  Great to hear this morning.  I'm back in the office, and have just been feeling the worst yesterday and driving in this morning.
I have to remember that feelings change, although it feels like they never do enough.
Thanks.

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9 hours ago, blessedby4 said:

 

 

Although my depression over the years last weeks to just a few months, one of the most incredible ways I have learned to live, is by learning to love.  That is: being patient and kind, not being jealous or boastful or proud or rude, not demanding, never giving up, always being hopeful and enduring through every circumstance.

As I continue to learn to live and love like, I get blessed with an amazing joy and peace that surpasses all understanding.  

Desmond Tutu once said ‘Hope is being able to see that there is light despite all of the darkness.’

That's good.  Sounds like a Biblical paraphrase of I Corinthians 13 I used to have, called The Message.

One of the toughest realizations (I could call it a 'lesson,' although I am only still continuing to learn it repeatedly and have certainly not arrived at anything like a solution), for me is that I can't give what I don't have.  As badly as I want to show that kind of holistic love to those around me, I am unable to do so before and until I can first extend it to myself.  Despite the work I've tried to do and the things I've read and tried to practice on Self Compassion etc, it seems like the most difficult thing just to accept and not loathe myself.  Then, it's only natural that I give from what I have to those closest to me.  And how much more do I hate myself for this?  Lots.

In fact, its one reason (in another thread), that I am seeking something spiritual I might believe in again with some beneficent purpose and end, even if I think it's mostly a benign fiction.

Reading your post again though, I do realize that each of these individual actions, are things I can practice.  It's not a zero-sum proposition.  I do exhibit them in limited forms, if I can remember to recognize and accept a little credit/affirmation from them.  Since I still don't much like to read the Bible directly, I tend to get them from other sources.  This morning I was listening to the Poem IF on the way in to the office.  How good it is too.

 

being patient and kind, not being jealous or boastful or proud or rude (being polite, humble, trusting), not demanding, never giving up, always being hopeful and enduring

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24 minutes ago, glfinding said:

Interesting quotes. Sounds like something i would read. I like reading about mindfulness. Probably similar to awareness. Friend gave me a book on Taoism. I really dig that kind of stuff.

Yes, I think his "awareness" and even the title and theme Awakening is pretty similar...and what I like is that it is more pedestrian/simpler than what 'mindfulness' is sometimes made into.

I have read of Taoism only indirectly in books by C.S. Lewis, etc., but in general, I am coming to believe more and more that there is a rich vein of wisdom and practices from the East that we Westerneres (ok, I'll speak for myself) have not previously benefited from.

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Weekends are supposed to be less stressful usually.

Today doesn't feel like it.  We'll get through this latest immediate thing, but I just keep asking myself, is this really worth it?  Is there any point and purpose?  Yes, I'm someone who needs some sort of point, purpose, hope, or whatever it wants to be called, a real reason for living.  I always have.  

The last 10 years, it's as though I have been skating by the skin of my teeth on borrowed time.

I have wounded my family, who I love, though all of this.

Mostly, it just feels too much to handle, saying nothing about improving.

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Thoughts of really ending it have come back a lot lately.

See of the reasons are obvious, the stress of returning to a type of work and environment that's bad for me, and other familiar patterns.

I just keep doing the same things over again, and real change seems the hardest thing.

One thing I like about this forum is that while I can always count on a life affirming ethic at large, I have never felt judged here for expressing the truth of how I feel.  That's quite a straddle and one I don't.thinkninhave found anywhere else quite the same way, not even in therapy, which I am back in to and glad to be.

I figure even if I take the last train out eventually (and hopefully I don't), at least I will have had someone else's there with me near the end, in my corner, and someone interesting, intelligent, and usually and in this case understanding to talk to.  Life is undeniably better this way then without.

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CS Lewis once wrote: 'God whispers to us in our pleasures and shouts to us in our pain."  As I started paying attention to God, I too realized that I cannot offer, what I do not have.  That is, if I don't have patience, it makes sense that I cannot offer it.  I needed a new heart (not in the physical sense) but in the spiritual sense, as a result of giving God my attention, He changed my heart.    I can pretend to be patient on outside, even though on the inside I was seething; I can try to be kind on the outside, even though on the inside I was ready to take full revenge for the wrong done to me- I tried to change, I tried to respond in patience- I always fell back into my emotional, moody self.   

I loved it how God gave me patience, kindness, not becoming jealous- so I can  give to others; but then I have learned to not demand my own way, to always have hope and to endure  through every circumstance.  Doing those things results in God giving me an unending hope.  

Someone once wrote: 'Hope is the only thing stronger than fear.'  Having hope gets me through the difficulties of marriage, and the pain of going through an addiction and the of not going back to it.  And when i read a verse like this, 'I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, they are plans for good and not disaster, to give you a future and a hope' -that causes me to have an amazing, never ending hope and that has made all the difference.  

 

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8 hours ago, gandolfication said:

Thoughts of really ending it have come back a lot lately.

See of the reasons are obvious, the stress of returning to a type of work and environment that's bad for me, and other familiar patterns.

I just keep doing the same things over again, and real change seems the hardest thing.

One thing I like about this forum is that while I can always count on a life affirming ethic at large, I have never felt judged here for expressing the truth of how I feel.  That's quite a straddle and one I don't.thinkninhave found anywhere else quite the same way, not even in therapy, which I am back in to and glad to be.

I figure even if I take the last train out eventually (and hopefully I don't), at least I will have had someone else's there with me near the end, in my corner, and someone interesting, intelligent, and usually and in this case understanding to talk to.  Life is undeniably better this way then without.

I too find comfort here. I assume most people i know in real life to never question thier purpose or happiness. Here we are free, searching for the meaning to our struggle. Im not sure i know anything more impprtant. I do believe we are the minority. My time here I hold to great value, and its nice to feel a connection. A real connection. Im just getting out of work. I am a chef. The place i get most of my hours is a party town. It becomes a club at night. I used to hate all the pretty people in the mix of the party scene. Lately i just feel bad for them. They will never know what we do. And ya mindfulness can get complicated. I struggle with, where does the existing self and thinking self begin and end. Maybe its because i over think everything.

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1 hour ago, blessedby4 said:

 

CS Lewis once wrote: 'God whispers to us in our pleasures and shouts to us in our pain."  As I started paying attention to God, I too realized that I cannot offer, what I do not have.  That is, if I don't have patience, it makes sense that I cannot offer it.  I needed a new heart (not in the physical sense) but in the spiritual sense, as a result of giving God my attention, He changed my heart.    I can pretend to be patient on outside, even though on the inside I was seething; I can try to be kind on the outside, even though on the inside I was ready to take full revenge for the wrong done to me- I tried to change, I tried to respond in patience- I always fell back into my emotional, moody self.   

I loved it how God gave me patience, kindness, not becoming jealous- so I can  give to others; but then I have learned to not demand my own way, to always have hope and to endure  through every circumstance.  Doing those things results in God giving me an unending hope.  

Someone once wrote: 'Hope is the only thing stronger than fear.'  Having hope gets me through the difficulties of marriage, and the pain of going through an addiction and the of not going back to it.  And when i read a verse like this, 'I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, they are plans for good and not disaster, to give you a future and a hope' -that causes me to have an amazing, never ending hope and that has made all the difference.  

 

I generally like people's stories about God and theory experience with him.

I mean 'stories' only describing experience, not as a pejorative.

I had mine.  They were real and vivid.

I loved them.  They did give me.hope and strength.

But they stopped being real.  I tried desperately to figure out what I was doing wrong, for years.  For a decade.  I prayed, read the Bible, read books, went.to church, plead with God.  A God who was not there.  It was a cruel trick. I did have to stop.

Eventually, I acknowledged I was conjuring a fiction.  Maybe a benign or even benevolent one.  But one that as badly as I wanted it to be otherwise, held no real power.

Sometimes I still like hearing others' stories.  Somehow, it gives me hope in a vicarious way, or at least a warm feeling.  I think it's a humanism....and it's what I now feel connects us while we hope for something more cosmic.

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10 hours ago, glfinding said:

I too find comfort here. I assume most people i know in real life to never question thier purpose or happiness. Here we are free, searching for the meaning to our struggle. Im not sure i know anything more impprtant. I do believe we are the minority. My time here I hold to great value, and its nice to feel a connection. A real connection. Im just getting out of work. I am a chef. The place i get most of my hours is a party town. It becomes a club at night. I used to hate all the pretty people in the mix of the party scene. Lately i just feel bad for them. They will never know what we do. And ya mindfulness can get complicated. I struggle with, where does the existing self and thinking self begin and end. Maybe its because i over think everything.

Yah, well said.  Some of the 'pretty people' will know (as this disease is no respected pf persons), but I think you're right in general, most people remain either largely asleep or at least contented.  (Being a chef sounds exciting and fun, though I'm sure is a ton of brutal work.)

I like how you describe the connection here. I feel the same.  It's good to come this way.

 

I guess it's a problem for me that I prefer to essentially only talk and socialize with people who have experienced serious depression. Not only because a deeper more profound level of being able to relate is a given, because I signed talking and socializing with them (us) invariably more interesting.

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11 hours ago, glfinding said:

I too find comfort here. I assume most people i know in real life to never question thier purpose or happiness. Here we are free, searching for the meaning to our struggle. Im not sure i know anything more impprtant. I do believe we are the minority. My time here I hold to great value, and its nice to feel a connection. A real connection. Im just getting out of work. I am a chef. The place i get most of my hours is a party town. It becomes a club at night. I used to hate all the pretty people in the mix of the party scene. Lately i just feel bad for them. They will never know what we do. And ya mindfulness can get complicated. I struggle with, where does the existing self and thinking self begin and end. Maybe its because i over think everything.

Yah, well said.  Some of the 'pretty people' will know, but I think you're right in general, most people remain either largely asleep or at least conten

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