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Kabuto

My Feelings Are Rational, But Hard For People To Understand

19 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post  

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That's perhaps the hardest part, when your feelings are 100% rational, but people haven't understood me because they haven't experienced personally.   

Wishing more people could relate right now.

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Posted · Report post  

Although you have not divulged the exact situation, I can say I totally get this post and can 100% relate. Hopefully that is some small consolation. It's infuriating and feels hopeless when no one can connect or understand or they undermine your feelings because they have yet to have the same experience. I'm sorry you're having a rough time. We're always here to chat. 

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Posted · Report post  

Thanks a lot!   Appreciate everything, good vibes are shared :)

Wish I knew more people in person though...heh.

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Posted · Report post  

Are you sure they are 100% rational?

From my experience dealing with depression, mania and whatnot, there is never something 100% rational and objective.

It is always your brain making you believe it is.

 

Besides, a few details could give us some clue what we're talking about here?

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Posted · Report post  

I have found it odd at times that people can't seem to "get" what I feel is completely rational.

For instance, I was talking to a psychiatrist, and somehow we started talking about death.  I mentioned that I didn't care what anyone did with my body after I die, because I'll be dead and it won't matter to me.  They could throw my body in an open pit or whatever, I don't care.  He spazzed out and started screaming at me.

I've also told people that I think it's wrong to lie to children and tell them there's a Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, etc., because the more you lie to your child, the more you are teaching him/her that you can't be trusted to tell the truth.  People routinely spaz out when I say this, telling me that if you don't tell your children these lies, you're robbing them of the wonder of childhood.  But children will enjoy presents at Christmas time regardless of whether or not they think a mythical being has given them the presents, and you can read them the stories without trying to convince them that the characters actually exist.

Another thing people don't seem to understand is when I say that it doesn't make much logical sense for me to continue on with my life.  I'm using resources and contributing next to nothing, and I'm miserable.  People act like I'm being irrational by saying that it makes sense for me to consider suicide, but from a logic standpoint, I don't see what the problem is.

To me, these people are just basing their objections on emotions when I'm making a point based on facts and reasoning.  Not everyone appreciates facts and reasoning, however.

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Posted · Report post  

@LoneSquirrel

A decision/feeling you don't want to continue with your life is never a logical one but always emotional.

Have you tried all the meds available?

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Posted (edited) · Report post  

1 hour ago, marwit said:

@LoneSquirrel

A decision/feeling you don't want to continue with your life is never a logical one but always emotional.

Have you tried all the meds available?

If I had terminal cancer, I doubt you'd be arguing that a decision to end my life would be illogical, but since I'm mentally ill, you've decided that my thoughts on suicide must actually be emotions.

The meds have not been exhausted yet, but I'm not dead yet, am I?

You've proven the point I was trying to make in my original post.  You don't understand, but you think you do, because you think you know how I feel and what I'm thinking.  You don't.

 

 

Edited by LoneSquirrel

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3 hours ago, LoneSquirrel said:

If I had terminal cancer, I doubt you'd be arguing that a decision to end my life would be illogical, but since I'm mentally ill, you've decided that my thoughts on suicide must actually be emotions.

The meds have not been exhausted yet, but I'm not dead yet, am I?

You've proven the point I was trying to make in my original post.  You don't understand, but you think you do, because you think you know how I feel and what I'm thinking.  You don't.

 

 

And ironically you've actually proven how emotional you are even about this thread with this passive-aggressive tantrum.

If it makes you feel better, you can continue to believe you make choices based purely on "logic" and everybody else is just an ***** who can't understand logic. But it doesn't work like that.

You're right, I don't know how you feel, because I'm not you, but that has nothing to do with the question whether your decisions are emotion or logic based. Nwsflash: EVERYBODY makes decisions using their emotions and no, you're not the special one who doesn't.

And it has nothing to do with you having mental illness, it's sad you interpreted it like that.

Wow, I'm actually surprised at how much you assume about me, what I was trying to say and how I judge you, even though I don't know you and neither do you know me.

My assumption: You need benzos. 

Edited by marwit

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Posted (edited) · Report post  

This thread is becoming argumentative and is completely unnecessary. No more.

Respect and remember Kabuto's reason for posting the topic.

 

- KS

Edited by KidSurvivor2011
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8 hours ago, LoneSquirrel said:

For instance, I was talking to a psychiatrist, and somehow we started talking about death.  I mentioned that I didn't care what anyone did with my body after I die, because I'll be dead and it won't matter to me.  They could throw my body in an open pit or whatever, I don't care.  He spazzed out and started screaming at me.

Sounds like that doctor needed to be on medication more than you.

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8 hours ago, LoneSquirrel said:

Another thing people don't seem to understand is when I say that it doesn't make much logical sense for me to continue on with my life.  I'm using resources and contributing next to nothing, and I'm miserable.  People act like I'm being irrational by saying that it makes sense for me to consider suicide, but from a logic standpoint, I don't see what the problem is.

I tend to agree with this. A lot of suicides are impulsive decisions. But I personally think about it from the perspective of my having chronic, treatment-resistant depression and being in constant pain.

I compare my situation to people with terminal, painful illnesses who ask for doctor-assisted suicide (Kevorkian, etc.). In my case, it wouldn't be a knee-jerk decision. It's something I've thought long and hard about. I've gone years with no relief. I've tried many medications and therapy. Nothing works. Nothing gets better. But I know I've tried. I've tried everything I know how to do to get better and nothing works.

I know my condition is never just going to up and vanish. I'll have this for the rest of my life. If, by some miracle, I find something that makes me feel better, I'll still know that it's only temporary. The only hope I have is that somebody comes out with a completely new kind of therapy that actually works for me. But the chances of that seem kind of slim. I keep myself informed about experimental treatments and there's not much on the horizon that gives me hope. Because each and every day is so very painful, the prospect of waiting 1, 2, 5, or 10 years for some "miracle" treatment to come out does not seem worthwhile. That's an eternity.

On Monday, I'm going in for a very expensive ketamine treatment that my dad is paying for, thankfully. If that works, I'll reassess my situation, even though I don't think ketamine could possibly be a long term treatment (mostly due to the cost). If it doesn't help, I'll be back to square one and I'll feel hopeless again. My next option will then be ECT.

If I die because of this disease, it won't be a snap decision. I will have tried everything at my disposal. The pain is so great and so chronic, that I can't find any logical reasons to keep enduring it for decades. I don't see this as emotional reasoning.

Edited by standup

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7 hours ago, marwit said:

And ironically you've actually proven how emotional you are even about this thread with this passive-aggressive tantrum.

If it makes you feel better, you can continue to believe you make choices based purely on "logic" and everybody else is just an ***** who can't understand logic. But it doesn't work like that.

You're right, I don't know how you feel, because I'm not you, but that has nothing to do with the question whether your decisions are emotion or logic based. Nwsflash: EVERYBODY makes decisions using their emotions and no, you're not the special one who doesn't.

And it has nothing to do with you having mental illness, it's sad you interpreted it like that.

Wow, I'm actually surprised at how much you assume about me, what I was trying to say and how I judge you, even though I don't know you and neither do you know me.

My assumption: You need benzos. 

I wasn't emotional when I posted that response.  Don't project your issues onto me.

If doing a cost-benefit-type analysis of whether or not I should remain alive isn't logical, then I don't know what is.  Of course emotions will figure in, and I'm not to the point that I'm emotionally ready to exit.

The fact that you're reacting to my unemotional post with venom is an indication of your own instability, so perhaps you should take your own advice.

 

 

 

Edited by LoneSquirrel

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5 hours ago, KidSurvivor2011 said:

This thread is becoming argumentative and is completely unnecessary. No more.

Respect and remember Kabuto's reason for posting the topic.

 

- KS

Why are you allowing another member to post venomous personal attacks against me?

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3 hours ago, standup said:

I tend to agree with this. A lot of suicides are impulsive decisions. But I personally think about it from the perspective of my having chronic, treatment-resistant depression and being in constant pain.

I compare my situation to people with terminal, painful illnesses who ask for doctor-assisted suicide (Kevorkian, etc.). In my case, it wouldn't be a knee-jerk decision. It's something I've thought long and hard about. I've gone years with no relief. I've tried many medications and therapy. Nothing works. Nothing gets better. But I know I've tried. I've tried everything I know how to do to get better and nothing works.

I know my condition is never just going to up and vanish. I'll have this for the rest of my life. If, by some miracle, I find something that makes me feel better, I'll still know that it's only temporary. The only hope I have is that somebody comes out with a completely new kind of therapy that actually works for me. But the chances of that seem kind of slim. I keep myself informed about experimental treatments and there's not much on the horizon that gives me hope. Because each and every day is so very painful, the prospect of waiting 1, 2, 5, or 10 years for some "miracle" treatment to come out does not seem worthwhile. That's an eternity.

On Monday, I'm going in for a very expensive ketamine treatment that my dad is paying for, thankfully. If that works, I'll reassess my situation, even though I don't think ketamine could possibly be a long term treatment (mostly due to the cost). If it doesn't help, I'll be back to square one and I'll feel hopeless again. My next option will then be ECT.

If I die because of this disease, it won't be a snap decision. I will have tried everything at my disposal. The pain is so great and so chronic, that I can't find any logical reasons to keep enduring it for decades. I don't see this as emotional reasoning.

I agree, Standup.

That said, I do try to remain hopeful...but I'm a realist.  It is possible that there could be some sort of spontaneous remission for you or I.  It may not be likely, but it's possible.  Maybe controversial nutritionists are right, and inflammation from improper diet or genetically-modified ingredients are causing us mental illness.  Maybe we're deficient in certain nutrients, or we consume too much sugar and it causes or exacerbates the problem.  Maybe you and I aren't living the sort of lifestyle that is suited to us, and that is causing a constant state of raised cortisol.  Maybe mental illness is related to Epstein-Barr type viruses, and we need to look to antiviral treatments for answers.  There are a number of different theories out there that could explain or partially explain what is going on with us, and there are new studies being done and new treatments being developed.  So there is always hope...but how long can a person suffer before they are worn out?  How long should a person live a life where it's a challenge just to get out of bed and shower?  Is it worth it to continue holding on year after year, decade after decade?  Each person must decide for him/herself.

I have a lot of trouble making decisions.  For me, making a list of pros and cons has often been helpful for making decisions.  A person's decision to end a life will involve emotion, but that does not make it illogical.  To say it's illogical just because there are emotions involved is erroneous.  That would be like saying that ending a marriage can't be a logical decision.  Sure there are emotions involved, but it doesn't mean that logic is absent.

A teenager taking his own life because his girlfriend broke up with him would be an example of an emotional and illogical decision.  This is not that.  This is years of suffering, pursuing treatment, pondering options and becoming more and more worn out in the process.

I do hope that you find relief, Standup.  You are an asset here, and you are someone who I consider valuable.  I would hate for the world to lose you, because you are a caring and helpful person...which seems to be rather rare these days.  I hope for your continued strength.  (But I also understand your point of view.)

I'm always open to talking about different theories of depression, and possible remedies (even the "weird" ones).  If you ever want to talk about stuff like that (or anything else), PM me.

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4 hours ago, standup said:

Sounds like that doctor needed to be on medication more than you.

Yelling at me when he didn't like what I said seemed to be his M.O.  

I think he thought that he was qualified to do mental health counseling just because he had an "M.D." after his name.  In reality, psychiatry and counseling are two different specialties.  He should not have been trying to be a counselor when he wasn't qualified.  However, he was not the first psychiatrist I'd seen who thought he was a counselor too.

One day--after he got done yelling at me--I said, "I don't think this is helping me."  He said, "I don't think it is either."  And that is when we parted ways.  :nod:

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1 hour ago, LoneSquirrel said:

Why are you allowing another member to post venomous personal attacks against me?

I'm not allowing any attacks against anyone. I said it stops NOW!

 

- KS

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9 hours ago, LoneSquirrel said:

Why are you allowing another member to post venomous personal attacks against me?

Oh really? Say how I attacked you be disagreeing with you in the FIRST post of mine.

Now let me quote your second post:

Quote

If I had terminal cancer, I doubt you'd be arguing that a decision to end my life would be illogical, but since I'm mentally ill, you've decided that my thoughts on suicide must actually be emotions.

The meds have not been exhausted yet, but I'm not dead yet, am I?

You've proven the point I was trying to make in my original post.  You don't understand, but you think you do, because you think you know how I feel and what I'm thinking.  You don't.

You made 1,2,3,4,5, - 6 passive-aggressive assumptions about me, just because I made a GENERAL OBSERVATION that such a decision is always emotional, it wasn't even about you specifically.

Even more, we as humans, are probably incapable of separating decisions from emotion altogether.

Yet you had to make 6 pretty EMOTIONAL remarks about ME, assuming that you know everything about me.

If that wasn't personal then I don't know what is. All I did is react, I didn't attack you first.

For me that proves you are emotional more than you realize and that also proves my general point. 

Anyway, not going to continue, because it doesn't make sense. You can believe whatever you want to. Out.

 

Edited by KidSurvivor2011
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Posted · Report post  

Thank you, KS!  There is no room for these type of arguments or attacks on DF.  Everyone has their opinions, but if it turns into attacking someone for them, then we stop them.

~Lindsay

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