Alternative Thinking: Atheism

[20YearsandCounting]

As I hope you can tell from the thread title, this thread is for those who have a different, or 'alternative' viewpoint on the topic of religion or spirituality.  This thread is intended to give a space to those who embrace atheism, in its many permutations. 

If you are agnostic, or if you are in the process of questioning one or more belief systems, you might try these threads: 

https://www.depressionforums.org/forums/topic/132100-alternative-thinking-agnosticism/

https://www.depressionforums.org/forums/topic/132101-aternative-thinking-questioning-one-or-more-belief-systems/

Please check these rules regularly. I may re-post them throughout the thread as needed.

 

RULES:

No pushing!!!! This thread is for members who question or reject religious belief. It is not a ‘chance’ for anyone to push their belief/nonbelief on anyone else, in any form.  Do not belittle or put down anyone's belief/nonbelief.  Disagree without insult.  

No chasing!!!! No retaliation against those you disagree with. No targeting specific members. If you want to pursue a discussion once the thread has moved on, find a new way to approach it. (‘Thread moved on’ is defined as four or more posts by other members on a completely new idea/topic)

No insulting!!!! Do not insult, demean, put down, threaten, troll, flame, or bait other members. Show respect when you choose to disagree. Convey your opinion about the idea, never the member.

All comments will be open for everyone to respond to. If you quote a post, make it clear you are doing so to reference material. There will be no targeted exchanges between members. If you want to have a one on one exchange, do so in a PM.

 

VIOLATIONS MAY RESULT IN ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING:

>POSTS MAY BE HIDDEN

>ADMIN MAY MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF YOU

>WARNING POINTS MAY BE HANDED OUT

>YOU MAY BE PLACED IN THE MOD QUEUE

MEMBERS WHO CONSISTENTLY, FLAGRANTLY, AND/OR MALICIOUSLY FLOUT THESE RULES MAY BE TEMPORARILY OR PERMANENTLY BANNED!!!!!!

 

 

[20YearsandCounting]

I'll start things off, but if you have something different to say, please feel free. 

Do you feel atheism is an expression of who you are, or is it more like an inescapable conclusion, or maybe a combination of the two?  I have heard both from various people over the years. 

[lonelyforeigner]

The latter, it's just an inescapable conclusion for me. Not believing in a higher power doesn't significantly affect my everyday life or behavior so I don't really view it as an expression of who I am. 

Edited February 18, 2017 by lonelyforeigner

[LonelyHiker]

Thank you for opening a new thread, 20YAC! We agnostics/atheists appreciate it!

[LonelyHiker]

28 minutes ago, lonelyforeigner said:

The latter, it's just an inescapable conclusion for me. Not believing in a higher power doesn't significantly affect my everyday life or behavior so I don't really view it as an expression of who I am. 

Ditto

[scienceguy]

With me its just a fact of life that there is nothing supernatural. religion does not hold any personal significance to me it seems silly to me i don't give it importance I think its a waste of time to acknowledged religion I don't get into fights with people in life I just tell them there right so they leave me alone. Im not mad, I don't think gods are cruel, Im not mad at any kind of morality they oppose i just think the whole thing is a silly waste of time, I think deep down most people don't believe in there religion but pretend like they do to fit in with everyone else. i find the whole thing crazy if I saw grown men arguing whether Dobby the house elf was real or not and one said you can't disprove him so he might be real I would just think they wanted attention or they are pretending to be stupid. when people pray I think its silly and have to stop myself from laughing not because I am trying to be malicious but I think it is so funny people believe those sorts of things that it has to be a joke.  I guess I would be called a strong atheist if I was open about most my views.

Edited February 21, 2017 by scienceguy

[KittyQueen]

I was an agnostic for many many years.... in 2016 I officially became.. well...

If you don't believe in unicorns, you're not called a "atheist" or "non believer"....  So technically i am atheist.  But i like to think of myself as a scientist.  Do you guys ever get frustrated by the labels?  Or the connotations that accompany the labels?

I do

-Kitty

[20YearsandCounting]

23 minutes ago, Misanthrop said:

But what about atheists who question or reject religious belief because they find religious beliefs illogical? If one posts about that here, will it be interpreted as "pushing" or belittling?

20Y&C, as you've said before, those who choose to reject religion or spirituality are frequently attacked when expressing their opinions or experiences. But what about DF's own mod/admin team? Will expressing atheist opinions or experiences be censored as 'insulting/demeaning/trolling/flaming'?

It does not matter why you choose to reject spiritual and/or religious beliefs, @Misanthrop.  When you focus on describing your beliefs, and do not make comments about those who may disagree, you avoid belittling others. 'But what about atheists who question or reject religious belief because they find religious beliefs illogical?'  In this statement, you have succinctly stated your belief and avoided insulting those who may disagree.

I have had at least two threads derailed by members insulting each other; I am trying to avoid that happening, while still giving everyone a chance to be heard on what can often be a complicated and controversial topic.  If you feel someone has insulted you or your beliefs, or the beliefs of another member, please PM me or another Admin about it. 

In a larger sense, what I do or do not believe is irrelevant to what I do here on DF as an Admin.  I'm sure that is true for every Mod that volunteers on DF, to one degree or another.  Most of my focus as an Admin is  more about: making sure the TOS is followed, making sure the individual forum rules are followed, making sure that members feel like they can express themselves here without being ridiculed, and making sure that Mods are able to do these things as well. 

If you, or any other member, ever feel like a Mod or Admin (like myself) is allowing their personal beliefs to affect their decisions, please don't hesitate to PM me, or site owner   @Lindsay and @Forum Admin and @LGJ, or Webmaster @Lioninwinter.  

[scienceguy]

What are all my atheists up to today!! 

Edited May 22, 2017 by scienceguy

[scienceguy]

On 3/24/2017 at 8:40 PM, KittyQueen said:

I was an agnostic for many many years.... in 2016 I officially became.. well...

If you don't believe in unicorns, you're not called a "atheist" or "non believer"....  So technically i am atheist.  But i like to think of myself as a scientist.  Do you guys ever get frustrated by the labels?  Or the connotations that accompany the labels?

I do

-Kitty

I just tell people im a scienceguy now if they bring up religion which is ironic given my name. I do get frustrated with labels as I feel when society uses the word atheism they given legitimacy that being religious is the correct way to be since you need a word to describe what the default position should be.

[sober4life]

Nope I can't believe there is a god.  When I look at the world I can't do it.  So many people in this world are completely morally bankrupt at this point.  If there was a god surely he would stepped in by now.

[scienceguy]

On 5/22/2017 at 7:49 PM, sober4life said:

Nope I can't believe there is a god.  When I look at the world I can't do it.  So many people in this world are completely morally bankrupt at this point.  If there was a god surely he would stepped in by now.

god could always just be a d**k I remember reading in philosophy that there was a religious theory that only the devil existed and the bible was inspired by the devil to mess with people and he just sends everyone to hell but the religious believers get the worst of it for being guilible. That makes more sense to me than the depiction of god being this hippy who wants world peace. I always viewed him as like a kid that burns ants with a magnifying glass out of sadism. 

[wheelman82]

I'm a near complete atheist, the only ways in my mind a god could exist, are:

A: He doesn't care for the world and we're only here to entertain him/them.

B: He doesn't intervene in this world, maybe we are a scientific study of an advanced race in another universe.

C: He has given up hope for our world.

But anyway, the only thing I believe in is the balance between the will to do good and the selfishness of mankind.

[JD4010]

I was raised in a mainstream protestant family. We attended church fairly regularly and I was confirmed when I was in 8th grade. Even by then, I had a lot of questions, mostly stemming from the vast amount of cruelty and suffering the people and animals on this planet endure. Like @scienceguy, I began to believe that God was some sort of sadistic SOB that enjoyed watching us from the bleachers as we inflicted pain, disease, and death upon each other.

I became a full-fledged atheist at some point, but after reading a lot of C.S. Lewis's serious works, I have "softened" into an agnostic position. We are definitely living on a a "fallen world", but that could happen with or without God.

[sober4life]

On 6/27/2017 at 9:22 AM, wheelman82 said:

I'm a near complete atheist, the only ways in my mind a god could exist, are:

A: He doesn't care for the world and we're only here to entertain him/them.

B: He doesn't intervene in this world, maybe we are a scientific study of an advanced race in another universe.

C: He has given up hope for our world.

But anyway, the only thing I believe in is the balance between the will to do good and the selfishness of mankind.

It's most likely A.  If it was B it would lead to C because if we are a science experiment the experiment has become a disaster.  I know I would have given up hope a long time ago.  If there is a god people make the mistake of thinking that god must be good.  Why?  He could be like any other ruler through history.  He could be a good guy or he could be an evil dictator.  The good guy would have felt guilt and he would have stepped in to help tons of times so we're left with the other choice or there is no god.

[scienceguy]

On 6/29/2017 at 8:51 PM, sober4life said:

It's most likely A.  If it was B it would lead to C because if we are a science experiment the experiment has become a disaster.  I know I would have given up hope a long time ago.  If there is a god people make the mistake of thinking that god must be good.  Why?  He could be like any other ruler through history.  He could be a good guy or he could be an evil dictator.  The good guy would have felt guilt and he would have stepped in to help tons of times so we're left with the other choice or there is no god.

That is the choice that makes sense to me when i was younger I would always think about how people in other countries would have a completely opposite belief system from Christianity, like Hinduism in India and I said to myself human beings will believe what ever there taught as children like Santa claus or else why would to groups of human beings believe in completely opposite things why would there be so many conflicting religions if there is suppose to be only one truth than when I was little it dawned on me that its all made and I haven't believed in anything supernatural since I was about 10 years old.

[sober4life]

In the state I live in many people blindly accept Christianity from birth until death it's just a way of life for a lot of people.  My entire life I never believed in any of it.  I thought it was nonsense for the most part.  I feel like my brother.  He said I really don't care if there is a god I wouldn't worship him anyway.  He allows babies and children to be hurt so why would I worship him?  It is an interesting subject though.  You are a man of science so how would you explain this entire universe just coming out of nothing if it wasn't created?  I agree there had to be a first thing.  If you go back far enough in history somehow it had to just begin from nothing because there has to be a beginning somewhere.  

[scienceguy]

3 hours ago, sober4life said:

In the state I live in many people blindly accept Christianity from birth until death it's just a way of life for a lot of people.  My entire life I never believed in any of it.  I thought it was nonsense for the most part.  I feel like my brother.  He said I really don't care if there is a god I wouldn't worship him anyway.  He allows babies and children to be hurt so why would I worship him?  It is an interesting subject though.  You are a man of science so how would you explain this entire universe just coming out of nothing if it wasn't created?  I agree there had to be a first thing.  If you go back far enough in history somehow it had to just begin from nothing because there has to be a beginning somewhere.  

I don't think there was ever a beginning because than god or a higher intelligence would have to come from some where if we grant god could exist and comes from no where why would it make sense that the universe could always exist instead. I think it is unknowable because if the universe and reality is infinite there is no way to prove it because we would just keep finding new information so it wouldn't be provable that the universe is infinite or had a first cause so it is a unanswerable question, I just don't see evidence it would be a man in the sky that somehow only communicates with certain people that came from nothing. 

[sober4life]

I don't think anything is infinite.  Everything has to start at some point.  I suppose the universe could be made like the earth.  If you keep going in one direction you will probably eventually end up where you started.  Time could be infinite on a loop I guess in the same way but the loop of time would have had to start at some point as well.  That's the big question How is it possible to never have a beginning but at the same time there had to be a beginning out of nothing to start which would mean anything and everything can come out of nowhere from nothing.  There doesn't have to be anything to create anything I guess.

Edited July 1, 2017 by sober4life

[uncertain1]

Hi. Couple of scientists that communicate well to a lay audience:Lawrence Krauss (including his book "A Universe from Nothing") and Neil deGrasse Tyson. 

(I'm not a cosmologist/astrophysicist) Our intuitions can fall apart under further scrutiny. I agree sober4life that it seems like there *has* to be a beginning, but that may be because that's what our direct experience has always been.  

[scienceguy]

Im getting so sick of being told to pray for a job by my parents, I told them im not wasting my time on that rubbish, im the only one they tell to my sister is an atheist and they never bother her. My grandmother said they same thing though she is not as pushy she randomly told me its the end of the world and I have to pray so I don't go to hell I told her im going to hangup the phone if she keeps telling me to pray I said I don't tell her to pray to hindu gods or zeus to save her soul from there concepts of hell. Religious people get on my nerves so much especially when they just pretend to be religious and know nothing about the bible my parents don't even know the 10 commandments and are telling me to be religious, I took a college theology class and have read the bible for hours every morning and wrote a ten page exogesus I a quote I picked from the book of matthew and went to ccd till I was 10. Thank god(lol) I don't live in the south my family in Floridian are crazy religious.

[ladysmurf]

3 hours ago, Misanthrop said:

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

-Lucius Annaeus Seneca

exactly.....i never believed in religion. it's only used to bring it money

[Nisemono]

I've become incredibly bored of the more vocal atheists. Yes! god doesn't exist. Now what?  Read some science! I have, and the psychology of belief has always interested me, whether it's religion or advertising. And pi**ing on Jesus' cross isn't exactly progressing. They believe in that stuff and there's probably nothing you can say that will change that.

God is dead. Now what?  Spirituality is a word that makes me vomit in my mouth but maybe poetry is a better word for it. Empericism can't describe everything, which is no reason to believe in ghosts and homeopathy, but there is a spiritual poetic aspect to life, whether it's happy or sad poetry, good or ****ing awful poetry. Let's be more poetic.

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by 20YearsandCounting
Admin: remove inflamatory content; OP-Spelling

[LonelyHiker]

My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy'^.

^{- Sir David Attenborough}

David Attenborough, 2003. "Wild, wild life." The Sydney Morning Herald, 25 March. Attenborough has also told this story in numerous other interviews. (from Wikipedia page about David Attenborough, citation #132

Edited January 5, 2019 by 20YearsandCounting
remove outside link

[LonelyHiker]

So contributions to a thread devoted to atheism need to be approved in advance?

With all due respect, that seems unreasonably heavy-handed ...