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Starting to feel a bit insecure about my looks


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7 minutes ago, lonelyforeigner said:

Yeah, I've had a lot of female friends in college and even later women always seemed to be nice to me. I  think the thing with guys like us is that we're very non-threatening. They look at us and view us like a relative, never even considering us dating potential and that's why they let their guard down. Show some interest and they're shocked and feel betrayed... 

Yeah, I think that could be a big part of it. I feel like I've never been taken that seriously since I'm short. I think the only hope for us is to get in really good physical shape to be taken more seriously. I was in incredible shape a few years ago when I was going to the gym consistently but my mental health made me slack off from going consistently now I'm back to being very average looking body wise. I wouldn't even want to be friends with a woman that I'm attracted to though. It's like what's the point when I'd want something more & she doesn't. I wouldn't want to be that guy she complains to about her guy problems & such like I'm some beta. I at the very least have more respect for myself in that regard than to put myself in that situation. 

Edited by GAJ123
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GAJ123 --

I suspect you're not going to be talked down off this particular ledge, so I won't try.  I would, however, suggest that you check out the height(s) of some famous men in the entertainment industry.  And don't trust the IMDB database for statistics.  Most male actors pad their real height, because they too, or their agents, think height is important on paper.  In front of a camera, however, the shorter you are, the better. 

I like tall men in theory, because I'm a bit taller-than-average woman.  My last boyfriend, however, was my height, and it didn't turn me off.  It was his a.s.s.h.o.l.e.r.y that did that.

Good luck to you.  We all eventually have to accept ourselves if we hope to have decent romantic relationships.  I'm working on that as we speak.

 

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8 minutes ago, womanofthelight said:

GAJ123 --

I suspect you're not going to be talked down off this particular ledge, so I won't try.  I would, however, suggest that you check out the height(s) of some famous men in the entertainment industry.  And don't trust the IMDB database for statistics.  Most male actors pad their real height, because they too, or their agents, think height is important on paper.  In front of a camera, however, the shorter you are, the better. 

I like tall men in theory, because I'm a bit taller-than-average woman.  My last boyfriend, however, was my height, and it didn't turn me off.  It was his a.s.s.h.o.l.e.r.y that did that.

Good luck to you.  We all eventually have to accept ourselves if we hope to have decent romantic relationships.  I'm working on that as we speak.

 

The thing is you're talking about people that are in the top 1% of men in terms of success. So of course those guys will easily get women if they're rich & famous. And I dislike that women taller than me are automatically off limits to me. I can't tell you how many times I've seen women an inch or few taller than me that were so attractive & of course I'd never stand a chance with her due to wanting a guy taller than her. The thing that's sad is I literally never or very very rarely even thought about my height in any way until I went on online dating & relationship forums & see what women generally prefer in men. And I can't just stop knowing what I know now. 

Edited by GAJ123
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11 minutes ago, womanofthelight said:

I would, however, suggest that you check out the height(s) of some famous men in the entertainment industry.

Seriously? Like fame has nothing to do with their success... By the way, if short is such an advantage on camera, why'd they have Tom Cruise stand on boxes when next to Kelly McGillis? :) 

The whole short celebrity thing is about as valid as saying you're just as likely to succeed without an education because Bill Gates did or telling people to play the lottery because SOMEONE always wins... 

I forgot, it's never that guys are short... it's that short guys have an attitude problem

Edited by lonelyforeigner
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2 minutes ago, lonelyforeigner said:

Seriously? Like fame has nothing to do with their success... By the way, if short is such an advantage on camera, why'd they have Tom Cruise stand on boxes when next to Kelly McGillis? :) 

The whole short celebrity thing is about as valid as saying you're just as likely to succeed without an education because Bill Gates did or telling people to play the lottery because SOMEONE always wins... 

I forgot, it's never that guys are short... it's that short guys have an attitude problem

Yeah, it might sound like I keep complaining, which maybe I am but another thing is I can't tell you how many times I've heard a woman say they dated a short guy once than say they never would again because she thought he was a jerk. But you'd never hear a woman flat out say the tall guy she dated was a jerk so she won't date a tall guy again. I mean it's hard not to be bitter when I have everything working against me though. 

And Cruise wears huge shoe lifts. Even Sylvester Stallone does. There's rumors that Stallone is only 5'7"-5'8" & not really 5'10" like everywhere online states. 

 

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5 minutes ago, womanofthelight said:

If your height is a dealbreaker for a woman, why would you want her?

The issue with it is that way too many women have it as a deal breaker in the first place. It's like I'd have to have way more going for me than a taller man just to be given a chance even with most women that are okay with height. 

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1 minute ago, GAJ123 said:

Yeah, it might sound like I keep complaining...

 

Heightism is real, despite people pretending that it isn't. Study after study has show that women strongly prefer taller men, that taller men make more money, get more promotions, are more respected, and are judged to be more competent and confident. A tall man firmly stating his opinion = confident leader, a short man doing the same = aggressive with an Napoleon complex. 

As long as women keep complaining about equal rights us short guys have the right to complain about heightism :smilingteeth:

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1 minute ago, lonelyforeigner said:

Heightism is real, despite people pretending that it isn't. Study after study has show that women strongly prefer taller men, that taller men make more money, get more promotions, are more respected, and are judged to be more competent and confident. A tall man firmly stating his opinion = confident leader, a short man doing the same = aggressive with an Napoleon complex. 

As long as women keep complaining about equal rights us short guys have the right to complain about heightism :smilingteeth:

The thing is heightism is accepted in society & you even hear people on TV make fun of short people with no repercussions. There's no winning against it & we just have to find a way to accept it instead of complaining even though it's extremely hard to. I really wish I never went on any relationship forums or on online dating. But what's been seen can't be unseen, now it's wired in my brain to know what women really prefer & I'm not it. Even if I were to meet a woman & she liked me but didn't find me that physically attractive it's like what's the point? Just like I'd need to be physically & emotionally attracted to a woman I'd need her to feel the same about me or else I wouldn't want to be with her. 

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Yeah, there's no winning. I just wish people would at least admit that heightism is real, seems like society as a whole is in denial about that. But you'e right, complaining won't solve it, we just have to play the cards we're dealt with, life isn't fair, never has been and never will be. Guess we're still lucky that we're not in a war zone or poverty stricken country. 

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6 hours ago, lonelyforeigner said:

Seriously? Like fame has nothing to do with their success... By the way, if short is such an advantage on camera, why'd they have Tom Cruise stand on boxes when next to Kelly McGillis? :) 

The whole short celebrity thing is about as valid as saying you're just as likely to succeed without an education because Bill Gates did or telling people to play the lottery because SOMEONE always wins... 

I forgot, it's never that guys are short... it's that short guys have an attitude problem

Might I suggest some herbal tea?  It might calm your nerves.

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So, lonelyforeigner, you get to judge women on our size and say chubby women are unattractive, but women do not get to judge you on your height? Seems like a bit of a double standard there, don't you think? Men have this one physical thing they are judged for, height, whereas women are constantly judged for everything about our appearance (including height) and not just on the internet, it is in exactly everything you see. Movies, TV, magazines and almost every man you meet seems to have no problem spewing stuff about it, it is considered 100% acceptable when done to a woman, but dare do it to a man on even one attribute and all h*** will break loose.

Now, my brother is 5'5 and has never had a trouble with women. He has always dated some really beautiful women. Why? He doesn't let his height bother him. He is most certainly not part of the 1%, we come from a very poor background and were even homeless at one point. Right now he is dating a gorgeous and lovely woman who is 5'9 and they love each other and have been together for years. I think only once did he actually date a woman shorter than himself. He has a friend who is 5'3 who is dating a model, again from a really poor home. In fact, most of his friends are really short and come from our old neighborhood, and they are dating tall, beautiful women. So yes, it really is all in your attitude. The reason I hear quoted most often is that women want a tall guy because they want a man who they feel can protect them, a shorter guy can do that just fine if he has the right attitude and is confident in himself. Of course it helps if you are really buff, but thankfully like the chubby women can lose weight you can buff up. ;)

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1 hour ago, ErinCat said:

So, lonelyforeigner, you get to judge women on our size and say chubby women are unattractive, but women do not get to judge you on your height? Seems like a bit of a double standard there, don't you think? Men have this one physical thing they are judged for, height, whereas women are constantly judged for everything about our appearance (including height) and not just on the internet, it is in exactly everything you see. Movies, TV, magazines and almost every man you meet seems to have no problem spewing stuff about it, it is considered 100% acceptable when done to a woman, but dare do it to a man on even one attribute and all h*** will break loose.

Now, my brother is 5'5 and has never had a trouble with women. He has always dated some really beautiful women. Why? He doesn't let his height bother him. He is most certainly not part of the 1%, we come from a very poor background and were even homeless at one point. Right now he is dating a gorgeous and lovely woman who is 5'9 and they love each other and have been together for years. I think only once did he actually date a woman shorter than himself. He has a friend who is 5'3 who is dating a model, again from a really poor home. In fact, most of his friends are really short and come from our old neighborhood, and they are dating tall, beautiful women. So yes, it really is all in your attitude. The reason I hear quoted most often is that women want a tall guy because they want a man who they feel can protect them, a shorter guy can do that just fine if he has the right attitude and is confident in himself. Of course it helps if you are really buff, but thankfully like the chubby women can lose weight you can buff up. ;)

I didn't say that women don't have the right to judge; they have every right to judge short men as we're genetically inferior from a evolutionary perspective. And yes, I do find women that weigh more than me to be unattractive, I won't deny that. What annoys me to no end is that women won't acknowledge this and constantly claim to be less shallow then men, guys at least have the guts to admit that they're shallow whereas women always try to make it about something else like personality. 

And like I said previously, it's not impossible for a short guy to find a woman, just significantly more difficult, according to some studies only in around 7.5% of couples the man is shorter, that's not congruent with the height distribution so there is a clear bias against short men. Your brother or any actors are just anecdotal evidence, it doesn't change the fact that in 90% of the cases it won't work out that way. 

And sure, a shorter guy can buff up but even given greater muscle mass most women will still go for the taller guy, it's just a fact. As far as only women being discriminated against I call BS. Men are judged on height, baldness, weight, strength, career, wealth, and social status. Oh, and by the way, men with mental illness generally get less help and are more harshly judged by society, they frequently end up homeless which in many cases leads to jail or prison in the long term. We're not as privileged as you think! Yes, some things like the work environment are designed to benefit men but being a woman also comes with its benefits in other areas. 

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I suppose the bad news is that height is very, very often a thing. It seems insane to pretend it isn't. It would be nice to imagine that established relationships could endure if husbands and boyfriends randomly shrunk 4 or 5 inches in the bathtub but before then a sort of a mininum is very much a sort of a girl's standard. That might just be the nature of attraction.

The better news is that isn't as if it can't be overcome. Happens all the time. And I think it happens most often to men who aren't limited by it. If you're height is worn palpably as a flaw, then you're asking people to feel that. Women may be able to empathise and reason with that intellectually. I doubt that many would feel attracted though.

In related news, if Jaime Lannister were 5'5" he'd still be a hall pass ;)

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You're right Gisele, empathy won't lead to attraction, you can't debate someone into feeling something that isn't there. Tried that one plenty of times with female friends when I was younger, it never worked and ended up ruining some otherwise good friendships. "But I'm perfect for you because a, b, c..." :Coopwink: 

Attraction is mostly based on instincts and it would be foolish to think that humans are the only species that won't act on those instincts. What people find attractive has been more or less the same throughout history, even before TV and other media outlets. Queen Nefertiti or Michelangelo's David come to mind. Some of it is cultural, like hairstyles, clothes, skin tone, make-up etc. but the underlying beauty standard has always been a healthy body and strong symmetry since that gives offspring the best chance of survival. 

At the end of the day height is an important but obviously not the only factor, there are other qualities that can be worked on to improve our odds. 

Jaime Lannister, huh? Even as a guy I have to admit he has an amazing face, it exudes masculinity and confidence. 

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Ok being the tallest person to post height means nothing. I stand at 6'3" (1.9 meters) by what most everyone saying (guy's) then every women should be lining up to be with me guess what there not I can't get anyone to even look at me. I am a little over weight 224 lb (101.6 kg) I have an average build but I am strong. So clearly if was based solely on those things then someone with in 200 miles should want me but there isn't I've looked. Some women prefer taller men, some prefer shorter, some heavy set, some thinner. Just like every guy does not prefer the same type of women. On that topic alone we can go forever and forever till the world ends NO one is going to like the same things in their partner.

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Interesting discussion!

I believe 'judge not, less ye be judged' is the way to beat back the unreasonable physical appearance standards society puts on men and women. It's no use pretending it's not there, even the successful Tom Cruise types feel it's necessary to compensate for their short stature.

But in my own life, even if I am being judged for my height or whatever... I don't need to judge women by society's strict standards of beauty. If I chase after the types aspiring to what people on magazine covers look like, I will fall short of their standards and be treated unfair.

But when I open my eyes to the people around me, I see the vast majority are neither uglier nor handsomer than me! If I give more women a chance, then I find those are the ones who are more willing to give me a chance.

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4 hours ago, Gisele said:

I suppose the bad news is that height is very, very often a thing. It seems insane to pretend it isn't. It would be nice to imagine that established relationships could endure if husbands and boyfriends randomly shrunk 4 or 5 inches in the bathtub but before then a sort of a mininum is very much a sort of a girl's standard. That might just be the nature of attraction.

The better news is that isn't as if it can't be overcome. Happens all the time. And I think it happens most often to men who aren't limited by it. If you're height is worn palpably as a flaw, then you're asking people to feel that. Women may be able to empathise and reason with that intellectually. I doubt that many would feel attracted though.

In related news, if Jaime Lannister were 5'5" he'd still be a hall pass ;)

And that's the problem I have with it. As I've stated I want a woman to find me both physically attractive & emotionally attracted to my personality. Since I want the same out of a woman, I don't want a woman to settle for me just because she thinks I'm a good guy but she doesn't get that "spark" with me in terms of physical looks. It also is really lame that women that are taller than me are almost automatically off limits. Basically 9 out of 10 women that are taller than me, they would automatically have no attraction towards me & it really sucks. 

Edited by GAJ123
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8 hours ago, ErinCat said:

So, lonelyforeigner, you get to judge women on our size and say chubby women are unattractive, but women do not get to judge you on your height? Seems like a bit of a double standard there, don't you think? Men have this one physical thing they are judged for, height, whereas women are constantly judged for everything about our appearance (including height) and not just on the internet, it is in exactly everything you see. Movies, TV, magazines and almost every man you meet seems to have no problem spewing stuff about it, it is considered 100% acceptable when done to a woman, but dare do it to a man on even one attribute and all h*** will break loose.

Now, my brother is 5'5 and has never had a trouble with women. He has always dated some really beautiful women. Why? He doesn't let his height bother him. He is most certainly not part of the 1%, we come from a very poor background and were even homeless at one point. Right now he is dating a gorgeous and lovely woman who is 5'9 and they love each other and have been together for years. I think only once did he actually date a woman shorter than himself. He has a friend who is 5'3 who is dating a model, again from a really poor home. In fact, most of his friends are really short and come from our old neighborhood, and they are dating tall, beautiful women. So yes, it really is all in your attitude. The reason I hear quoted most often is that women want a tall guy because they want a man who they feel can protect them, a shorter guy can do that just fine if he has the right attitude and is confident in himself. Of course it helps if you are really buff, but thankfully like the chubby women can lose weight you can buff up. ;)

Are both your brother & his friend really successful in terms of their career? I feel when shorter guys have good looking women that they have to make compromises that taller guys don't to get those women.

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4 hours ago, zdude954 said:

Ok being the tallest person to post height means nothing. I stand at 6'3" (1.9 meters) by what most everyone saying (guy's) then every women should be lining up to be with me guess what there not I can't get anyone to even look at me. I am a little over weight 224 lb (101.6 kg) I have an average build but I am strong. So clearly if was based solely on those things then someone with in 200 miles should want me but there isn't I've looked. Some women prefer taller men, some prefer shorter, some heavy set, some thinner. Just like every guy does not prefer the same type of women. On that topic alone we can go forever and forever till the world ends NO one is going to like the same things in their partner.

No, height alone won't attract anyone, there are plenty of tall guys who can't find anyone either, no one disputes that ;-) If you have significant flaws then being tall obviously won't help. A tall insecure or unattractive guy can have it just as hard as a short guy, still, all else being equal the tall guy would win hands down. 

And yes, you're right, there's a preference for everything. Heck, some people even have a thing for amputees (acrotomophilia). Dating is just a numbers game, the more people find a given attribute attractive the better your odds in the dating world. 

Edited by lonelyforeigner
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Well, I hear everyone on this issue.  Like I said, I don't have a height preference and nor should I, I guess, being of smaller stature??  But yes, there appears to be a preference for just about everything!  Sorry but it made me laugh reading that.  :hugs:

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1 hour ago, GAJ123 said:

And that's the problem I have with it. As I've stated I want a woman to find me both physically attractive & emotionally attracted to my personality. Since I want the same out of a woman, I don't want a woman to settle for me just because she thinks I'm a good guy but she doesn't get that "spark" with me in terms of physical looks. It also is really lame that women that are taller than me are almost automatically off limits. Basically 9 out of 10 women that are taller than me, they would automatically have no attraction towards me & it really sucks. 

The average Canadian woman is shorter than the average American woman. I once looked this up.  It's around a half to an inch difference.  I'm kidding, but why not move to Canada? 

Edited by gs22
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1 hour ago, GAJ123 said:

Are both your brother & his friend really successful in terms of their career? I feel when shorter guys have good looking women that they have to make compromises that taller guys don't to get those women.

Shorter guys should not have to make any compromises.  Take it from this one woman, you're fine the way you are now.

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Just now, gs22 said:

Shorter guys should not have to make any compromises.  Take it from this one woman, you're fine the way you are now.

Thanks, but the vast majority of women aren't like you. For every woman there is like you, there's 7 or 8 that aren't. It's just the way it is unfortunately & my options are very limited due to all my personal issues on top of what women prefer. I almost feel like I'll never stand a chance. I might be able to get a date here & there if I tried a lot probably, but for anyone to want to wind up with me for an actual relationship is slim to none.

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2 hours ago, 4amRedLight said:

Interesting discussion!

I believe 'judge not, less ye be judged' is the way to beat back the unreasonable physical appearance standards society puts on men and women. It's no use pretending it's not there, even the successful Tom Cruise types feel it's necessary to compensate for their short stature.

But in my own life, even if I am being judged for my height or whatever... I don't need to judge women by society's strict standards of beauty. If I chase after the types aspiring to what people on magazine covers look like, I will fall short of their standards and be treated unfair.

But when I open my eyes to the people around me, I see the vast majority are neither uglier nor handsomer than me! If I give more women a chance, then I find those are the ones who are more willing to give me a chance.

I find this interesting.  The funny thing is I don't even know or pretend to understand exactly what the ideal female beauty is.  I could never put my finger on it.  And is it the same in Canada as in the US?  I have no idea.  Whatever this standard is, it has eluded me.  Anyway, thanks for not judging women by that standard. 

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