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Rocker

Trouble finding work, tired of being called lazy?

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I've read a lot of things online that are just insulting, and caused depression in me. I am currently employed, but not making much and living at home. People often say that you can create your own luck, if you work hard enough you'll get there, ect. The really frustrating part is when people are so quick to label people as being lazy if they are unemployed.

Here's the thing:

Some people don't believe in luck, but I think there is a fault to that. We don't get to choose what our passions or aptitudes are. I do believe some people are lucky in the sense that they are blessed with a prosperous passion. If you are passionate about law, medicine, computer science, or engineering, then you have a huge advantage over the people who's passion/aptitude lies in painting or playing the flute. The painter could work just as hard as the aspiring doctor, but the former has very little chance of having a lucrative career. I think a lot of the people who are "blessed with prosperous passions" take that for granted and forget that not everyone has that luxury.

And seriously, I am so frustrated (and sometimes get depressed) at all the people calling us lazy because we are either out of a job or not making a good living. Sure, there are some lazy people out there. But what about the people who are working 16 hours a day just to get by? How insulting and insensitive can people be?

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Well, you know...people like to think that they got somewhere because they worked hard, but working hard wasn't the only factor to get them there.  They don't want to acknowledge what you've mentioned, or the fact that maybe a job opening appeared at the right time, a friend got them an interview, or people working below them did most of the hard work.  If they acknowledged that stuff, they'd have to admit that it wasn't all of their own hard work that got them there.

Also, I think people like to believe that life is under their control, because it's comforting to think that.  If they had to face the fact that life can hand you s*** sandwiches at times, and you can't always bounce back, the bubble they live in would burst. 

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You guys are hitting the nail on the head. Some people give themselves way too much credit and are too quick to judge others. They are oblivious. Hard work, in and of itself, does not guarantee anything. There are so many factors that go into life and "success" and often these people take simple things for granted. 

I'm sick of people thinking I'm lazy when I struggle just to make it through each day. If they could just feel what I feel for 5 minutes they would change their tune.

If there's one thing depression has taught me, it's to NOT be a judgmental, self-absorbed wanker. 

Edited by standup

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Luck definitely exists - good and bad. And a person doesn't make their own. The universe rewards and punishes entirely at random. Nobody's in charge of the world and everybody has a lot less control over their lives than they realise. Can't choose your family, can't choose skin colour or gender, can't choose appearance, can't choose talent, can't choose where or when you'll be born. (I reckon I would have much preferred growing up through the '60s).

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8 hours ago, standup said:

 

I'm sick of people thinking I'm lazy when I struggle just to make it through each day. If they could just feel what I feel for 5 minutes they would change their tune.

If there's one thing depression has taught me, it's to NOT be a judgmental, self-absorbed wanker. 

Same here! I am a very understanding person because of my condition. I think to myself all the time, can they just step into my shoes for one day and see how they cope?

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I used to believe in hard work. I used to believe in being in control, and in fighting for things, and creating my own destiny. But depression has taught me that we are not in control of our lives as we often like to think.

 

We don't pick or parents, the place you were born, your sex, skin color. We don't pick our body features. And the truth is, doesn't matter how good we are, we are vulnerable to a lot of bad things. Here is an example. That airliner that was shot down over Ukraine in 2014 carried a bunch of clinical researchers that were going to go to an international conference about AIDS in Australia. Those people were top-notch doctors, highly-intelligent extremely successful people, with multiple degrees and such. Not only that, they contributed a lot to the world with their research. Yet, they got killed by a missile coming out of the sky with no warning. Not one of them could even imagine what was about to happen and they were absolutely powerless to change what happened to them.

 

 

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10 hours ago, depressedand said:

Here is an example. That airliner that was shot down over Ukraine in 2014 carried a bunch of clinical researchers that were going to go to an international conference about AIDS in Australia. Those people were top-notch doctors, highly-intelligent extremely successful people, with multiple degrees and such. Not only that, they contributed a lot to the world with their research. Yet, they got killed by a missile coming out of the sky with no warning. Not one of them could even imagine what was about to happen and they were absolutely powerless to change what happened to them.

 

 

That is an awesome example. People who are very giving and getting killed tragically. It brings me back to when I thought The Secret was the greatest thing ever (thank god I got that out of my life!) One of the most controversial statements in that film was that we attract everything in our lives. So each and every person on that flight could have spared themselves by changing their thinking? SMH.

If I punched the author of that book, would she apologize to me for thinking the thoughts that compelled me to punch her?

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1 hour ago, Rocker said:

That is an awesome example. People who are very giving and getting killed tragically. It brings me back to when I thought The Secret was the greatest thing ever (thank god I got that out of my life!) One of the most controversial statements in that film was that we attract everything in our lives. So each and every person on that flight could have spared themselves by changing their thinking? SMH.

If I punched the author of that book, would she apologize to me for thinking the thoughts that compelled me to punch her?

LOL! You know, I've always noticed the movie version of The Secret on Netflix and each time I see it and read the summary, I'm intrigued for a second - and then it just sort of feels wrong so I don't end up watching it. Thanks for confirming that for me. I just did a quick bit of research on it and found out that some people call it The Bulls***! I'm glad I didn't waste my time on that, although I'm sure my therapist would've told me it's crap anyways.

But just in reading why it's wrong, it brought some ideas together in my head from therapy, so that's good....Forced positive thinking, or positive intent, or the "law of attraction", doesn't work. In fact, in can do harm. It's just an attempt to bury the negative under phony positive, which just confuses everything and can cause you to make bad decisions. It's better to just be aware of the negative, not fight it (and then try to "re-frame" if possible).

 

 

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I don't think hard work is entirely meritless. While we are subject to a chaotic, unfair, and meaningless universe, we can still try to do something with our time. We can't choose how we are born, but we can try to use our circumstances to benefit us and others.

I agree that people calling us lazy for being unemployed is unfair and wrong, and I hope I can learn to ignore such jeers.

On 22.7.2016 at 1:08 AM, standup said:

If there's one thing depression has taught me, it's to NOT be a judgmental, self-absorbed wanker. 

A good point, though I think depressives can often be very self-absorbed. I can be, as I am often obsessed with my pain. Depression made me almost incapable of anger and hatred, which has been useful (though that usefulness certainly does not compensate for the pain).

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The types of people who label others “lazy” most likely have issues of their own. 

* They might be so out of touch and privileged that they assume if you’re not “making it” you must not be trying.  They probably attribute their own success to their personal merit and hard work, when in reality it was due to unearned advantages or luck.

* They might be struggling themselves yet desperate to believe that their toil is not for nothing, that as long as they work hard, they will eventually “make it.”  When they’re faced with others who don’t seem to buy into this ideology, who don’t seem to be working as hard as they are, they feel resentful and maybe somewhat threatened, so they lash out and call them “lazy.”

* And then there’s classic projection, which most of us succumb to at times.  The “work ethic” – the idea that work is virtuous and noble, the key to salvation -- is so strong in American and Anglo culture that we can’t help but internalize it to a certain degree.  It’s also big in immigrant culture (that’s how I caught it).  Especially when it’s so hard to make ends meet, many of us may worry that we’re not working hard enough, that we’re “lazy.”  So we criticize ourselves and/or project the criticism onto others.

In the US/Canada and UK, we keep clinging to the idea that we live in a *meritocracy*, that people rise to the top or fall to the bottom due to merit (what they do rather than who they are, based on birth, i.e., their race, ethnicity, gender, class, physical attributes).  These days the claim of equal opportunity is laughable.  In the US, millions of people work full-time, yet live in poverty.  What’s the best way to get rich in the US?  To have wealthy parents.  If only we could choose our parents.  Most (though not all) CEOs and leaders in business, politics and the media were born into privilege, groomed for these positions since birth, educated at the most elite institutions; a small minority achieved such positions through hard work *and luck* (the majority work their tails off but never achieve such power and prestige).  And if we look back over the last decade, how have these “smart and savvy” super-high-paid financial and political leaders done?  They effed up the world economy, caused a global financial crisis, recessions throughout the world, bailed out the banks, and stuck regular taxpayers with the bill. 

After ruining the economy and destroying our jobs, they call us lazy for being unemployed or asking for assistance. Eff them.

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Good observations, @Inanomie, though I would add that class conflict is nothing new.

The virtue of work is an intoxicating idea, as "knowing" that we can become wealthy and comfortable through our efforts feels empowering. In school I was a perpetrator of this, as I worked 40 hours per week while being a full-time student. I called others lazy, and I knew it was an attempt to validate myself. My depression meant I denied myself most life experiences, and I replaced them with work. Since then I have changed my mind, as an extended period of unemployment has taught me that there is more to life than work.

Our socioeconomic status is largely defined by our upbringing, but we are not totally helpless. Through work and wise life decisions you can improve your situation. Almost certainly you won't become a CEO, but you might be able to live a bit more comfortably.

Edited by Hermitic

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7 hours ago, Inanomie said:

The types of people who label others “lazy” most likely have issues of their own. 

 

* They might be so out of touch and privileged that they assume if you’re not “making it” you must not be trying.  They probably attribute their own success to their personal merit and hard work, when in reality it was due to unearned advantages or luck.

This. I think a lot of wealthy people take for granted a lot of the advantages they have to begin with. They don't seem to realize the advantages they have, even though they did work their ***** off. And again, I don't hate wealthy people. I am a very active member in the sports car community, so most of my friends/acquaintances have money. I love hanging out with them and sharing that passion. It's just the few people who call us lazy if we aren't making it to the top.

One time, I heard someone say, "College students have so much time. There is NO EXCUSE for having college debt."

WHAAAATTTTTTTTT???????????????????????????????????????????

Edited by Rocker

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I can understand the where you are coming from, primarily because I'm currently job hunting. Luck definitely plays a HUGE part in such things if you are a new grad, or an outsider to an organization hoping to get their foot in the door.

I say huge part because the thinking of the current job market is that, if someone has more experience than someone else and has good enough soft skills, we will go with them. Screw the new grad who is most likely to help make up the workforce for the future, who needs to think about that stuff when all we need to do is get the best right now? Am I right or am I right? (Sarcasm intended)

Another point where luck plays a huge part is being in the right place at the right time. Humans are biased creatures no matter how much they try not to be. If the hiring manager's mood is sour, it will affect your status for consideration even if you didn't do anything wrong. Sometimes you come across people who understand your situation and still see the value in what you have to offer. They may see that you can be trained into a greater employee with the understanding that you are the future of the workforce. Therefore they may pick you over the experienced employee, but truthfully that is not the case most of the time. Why else is there such a rise in startups and new businesses?

Another issue is that of training. In the past manager happily trained their employees, this helped create a family like mindset between the employers and employees. Now days due to the change in mindset within the workforce, employers want an employee that is trained up and ready to go right out of college (even though that is an unrealistic expectation). That also makes them disposable resources, let that sink in. People in higher positions treat others as disposable resources in their organization (sometimes in personal life as well).

We as humans have created a complex world for ourselves no doubt. But it is also quite sad that instead of being empathetic towards one another (we are one species after all), and aiming for a sense of unity we have people out there throwing insulting and insensitive slurs around at people. This does nothing but to further fracture humans in general as species (this is a subjective point though, you may see things differently).

Edited by Naitomea1224

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15 hours ago, CoolCat7 said:

This thread reminds me of something I witnessed at work.  A young woman I worked with was completely un-ambitious.  She was happy working her entry-level job.  Then she won a lottery worth over a million dollars.  After that, she quickly began getting promoted and ended up in a management position.  It wasn't that she worked any harder -- she had entered a different socio-economic class, one in which she could afford nicer clothes, a better car, and fit in better with others of that higher socio-economic class.  It really taught me that socio-economic class is a major factor in success.

A lot of it has to do with status and looks to. I remember when I was still in high school and my father was promoted to the higher managerial positions, he went out shopping for a new car. Why? Because you had to look a certain way to maintain a certain professional standard which in my opinion is ridiculous. The old car worked just fine (not that I think cars are good in general for the Earth).

Status tends to create a huge barrier between people. Why else did the middle class revolt against the rich in the past? Because the middle and poor class realized that they were being exploited by the rich to further their own gains. Same thing happens today, but unlike in the past that wasn't as strictly regulated in everything we do, nowdays there are even barriers to revolting in the same sense as our ancestors. On top of that, what we are taught in school tends to be very contradictory to how the world actually operates (the job/business world).

This does beg the question in me, do rich kids who go to schools specifically designed for them learn the same things as the middle and poor class, or is it different?

My guess would be that it is different.

Very interesting replies and conversations happening here :).

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I have no college debt, as I was fortunate enough to be born to wealthy (albeit emotionally toxic) parents. In my job search, I have seen what @Naitomea1224 mentioned; nearly all employers want "experience." I was bewildered when I was rejected from a seretary position due to lack of professional experience. Did they really believe that I was incapable of answering a telephone?

How are college students supposed to gain this "experience?" Internships? Most internships are unpaid, so anybody that has to pay rent or eat food probably can't be an intern. Part of why I will go to Germany for my master's degree is free tuition and paid internships.

15 hours ago, CoolCat7 said:

This thread reminds me of something I witnessed at work.  A young woman I worked with was completely un-ambitious.  She was happy working her entry-level job.  Then she won a lottery worth over a million dollars.  After that, she quickly began getting promoted and ended up in a management position.  It wasn't that she worked any harder -- she had entered a different socio-economic class, one in which she could afford nicer clothes, a better car, and fit in better with others of that higher socio-economic class.  It really taught me that socio-economic class is a major factor in success.

Unfortunately, human nature seems to produce such situations. My acne-ridden face has won me no jobs.

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15 minutes ago, Hermitic said:

I have no college debt, as I was fortunate enough to be born to wealthy (albeit emotionally toxic) parents. In my job search, I have seen what @Naitomea1224 mentioned; nearly all employers want "experience." I was bewildered when I was rejected from a seretary position due to lack of professional experience. Did they really believe that I was incapable of answering a telephone?

How are college students supposed to gain this "experience?" Internships? Most internships are unpaid, so anybody that has to pay rent or eat food probably can't be an intern. Part of why I will go to Germany for my master's degree is free tuition and paid internships.

Unfortunately, human nature seems to produce such situations. My acne-ridden face has won me no jobs.

You know what else this person said? He said, "There IS free college. It's called the military, folks! Most of you people are just too lazy to do it."

Lazy???

First off, the military is not for everyone. Especially people like us on this forum. I already have PTSD, and I don't need someone screaming in my face everyday. Second, "too lazy?" Does he realize what an enormous commitment the military is? If you sign up, you'd better be absolutely sure you can handle it.

@Hermitic, going to Germany for college sounds like a great plan! Plus, think about all the tasks you have to do just to get over there. You have to apply for a passport or visa, it costs money just to get over there, it's a foreign country that is out of your comfort zone, and you will be away from your culture. That is ANYTHING BUT lazy. I definitely give you kudos for that. And you will probably pick up a lot of girls too, with your American accent. :smile:

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On 7/22/2016 at 2:08 AM, standup said:

You guys are hitting the nail on the head. Some people give themselves way too much credit and are too quick to judge others. They are oblivious. Hard work, in and of itself, does not guarantee anything. There are so many factors that go into life and "success" and often these people take simple things for granted. 

I'm sick of people thinking I'm lazy when I struggle just to make it through each day. If they could just feel what I feel for 5 minutes they would change their tune.

If there's one thing depression has taught me, it's to NOT be a judgmental, self-absorbed wanker. 

Beautifully said.

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1 hour ago, Rocker said:

And you will probably pick up a lot of girls too, with your American accent.

Ha! You can't be serious.

I think the military is not only a terrible option for a "free" education, but I intensely dislike the institution. It is severely emotionally damaging (see Lindybeige's Youtube video on "Shooting to ****" for an example). It's racist and sexist too, but I will spare you that diatribe, as it is not relevant to this thread.

Even when unemployed, dealing with depression can be as stressful as a job. I think ignoring people who call us lazy is best.

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i came from a very poor family I use to have to walk to work and school because I couldn't afford a car. What I don't understand is why do people want so much money. I would take a job that I like that pays less and live in a poorer area rather then take something I don't like just for a money. My car is from 2004 and I will try to get 10 years out of it if I can even if I had a million dollars. I have no problems living on 50 dollars a month if I have to. Most of my school was paid for by financial aid I was even on food stamps for a year. My college had a lot of rich kids that wanted to be doctors something I noticed it seemed like they were in college just because there parents wanted them to go or to appease other people not because they wanted to learn things they were interested in. I do tend to think of wealthy people as lazy who went to university and had everything paid for by there parents. Or people who refuse to walk somewhere or kids who get cars from there parents. If I had kids they would have to earn everything. I enjoy working and being competitive so I have trouble understanding people who complain about there jobs all the time. It really urks me when people have kids when they can't afford them then want sympathy from you. I look at people who work in factories as less lazy then CEO's here in my mind they have the same status and value so maybe thats why I have trouble understanding the rat race. Someone who works alot and is poor is less lazy to me then someone who is rich and barley works.

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43 minutes ago, scienceguy said:

i came from a very poor family I use to have to walk to work and school because I couldn't afford a car. What I don't understand is why do people want so much money. I would take a job that I like that pays less and live in a poorer area rather then take something I don't like just for a money. My car is from 2004 and I will try to get 10 years out of it if I can even if I had a million dollars. I have no problems living on 50 dollars a month if I have to. Most of my school was paid for by financial aid I was even on food stamps for a year. My college had a lot of rich kids that wanted to be doctors something I noticed it seemed like they were in college just because there parents wanted them to go or to appease other people not because they wanted to learn things they were interested in. I do tend to think of wealthy people as lazy who went to university and had everything paid for by there parents. Or people who refuse to walk somewhere or kids who get cars from there parents. If I had kids they would have to earn everything. I enjoy working and being competitive so I have trouble understanding people who complain about there jobs all the time. It really urks me when people have kids when they can't afford them then want sympathy from you. I look at people who work in factories as less lazy then CEO's here in my mind they have the same status and value so maybe thats why I have trouble understanding the rat race. Someone who works alot and is poor is less lazy to me then someone who is rich and barley works.

@scienceguy, it's great you have such a practical outlook on things in life. I'm replying to your post since I found what you said to be quite interesting, now what I say here are simply my own observations, so take them with a grain of salt :).

You say some kids from richer family go to college not for themselves but to appease others. It should also be considered that perhaps that is the mindset they have been brought up with even if it is unintended by the parents. If parents put ridiculous amounts of pressure and high expectations to succeed on their kids, they could begin to get the notion that they don't live life for themselves, but they live it to appease others. Some of those kids could very well be going through depression as well due to something like this.

Regarding your curiosity of why people focus on making so much money. What is the mindset kids are taught in school? More money = better life. What do parents teach kids? They teach them to be smart with their money (at least I hope most parents do that), but to be smart with money, you first have to have an adequate amount depending on what you want to do with it, ie. Investing, Loaning, buying and selling and etc. The problem comes in being able to determine how much money you are happy with. If you as an individual can't seem to draw a line, then you will keep on wanting more and more thinking that eventually you will hit that plateau where you are happy. But those that don't know how to limit such thoughts can fall victim to greed and corruption.

Society has been created on the concept of trade via money. Naturally the more money you have, the more opportunities you have for trade. And in a materialistic society such as ours, more money sounds appealing to the masses. This is because that is what they have been taught since childhood, that is what they have been taught from the moment they were born. It is engraved in their mind from a young age. That doesn't mean that this can't change, you yourself represent an exception to this type of thinking due to your experiences and circumstances making the individual you are.

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On 23 July 2016 at 4:56 PM, Inanomie said:

 

 

  Most (though not all) CEOs and leaders in business, politics and the media were born into privilege, groomed for these positions since birth, educated at the most elite institutions; a small minority achieved such positions through hard work *and luck* (the majority work their tails off but never achieve such power and prestige).  And if we look back over the last decade, how have these “smart and savvy” super-high-paid financial and political leaders done?  They effed up the world economy, caused a global financial crisis, recessions throughout the world, bailed out the banks, and stuck regular taxpayers with the bill. 

 

After ruining the economy and destroying our jobs, they call us lazy for being unemployed or asking for assistance. Eff them.

 

It amazes me that here in the UK at least, politicians are given the best education in the world and still get so much wrong and cause so many problems.

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