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Paris Attacks - C'est Horrible


Jules19

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It is so very very tragic and sorrowful!  Watching the terrible news on television, I couldn't help but remember the words of Rodney King:  "Can we get along?"  Or "Why can't we all just get along?"

Edited by Epictetus
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I visited Paris for the first time in my life in April 2014.

But I feel I had visited it many times in my dreams over the years, and last night confusing dreams, unsettling dreams in which I was looking for a place to sleep, and carrying my blanket around with me, near the Rue Rambuteau. Near the Centre Pompidou. Near the Ile de la Cité. In this darkness with nothing but street lights and sirens.

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Even a day after, I find myself profoundly shaken and saddened.  I pray for both the victims and the terrorists that somehow some ultimate good can come out of the evil of this for both.  Although I absolutely condemn the evil of terrorism , I do not feel "good enough" in myself to cast stones at the perpetrators of the ghastly terrors in Paris.  I often wonder whether if everyone were kind and loving and compassionate and generous and understanding, whether terrorism would exist.  So I hold myself partly responsible for what has happened in Paris.  I personally am not a bright and shinning light of kindness, love, compassion, understanding, generosity!

Edited by Epictetus
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Even a day after, I find myself profoundly shaken and saddened.  I pray for both the victims and the terrorists that somehow some ultimate good can come out of the evil of this for both.  Although I absolutely condemn the evil of terrorism , I do not feel "good enough" in myself to cast stones at the perpetrators of the ghastly terrors in Paris.  I often wonder whether if everyone were kind and loving and compassionate and generous and understanding, whether terrorism would exist.  So I hold myself partly responsible for what has happened in Paris.  I personally am not a bright and shinning light of kindness, love, compassion, understanding, generosity!

 

Trust me, unless you are willing to massacre innocent civilians, you are above those monsters that committed these awful crimes.  No amount of kindness can stop them.  They are brainwashed with an evil ideology that seeks to only destroy. 

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Epictetus, I agree with Jules, in no way are you partly responsible for what has happened in Paris.

 

And, as you know, philosophical discussions of good and evil haven't yet succeeded in explaining the existence of evil, and haven't yet found a way for good to triumph permanently over evil.

 

One point I do take away from your comment and Jules response: if children are raised from birth to embrace ideologies and actions that embody evil, then in one small way a person could say "It wasn't their fault", much like we understand on this forum how childhood abuse was not the fault of the abused child.  The brainwashing and radicalism from birth produced a damaged mind, with no ability nor free will to stop and say "Hey, this ain't right."

 

Every time the news media says that some members of ISIS are "French citizens", I get a little annoyed, because technically that may be so, but I doubt that they are children of French chefs or French fashion designers who suddenly decided, "Hey, I'll go be a terrorist".

 

They are likely the children of terrorists who immigrated to France with evil in their hearts, and taught that evil to their children, who are French citizens only by birth, not by heart.

 

So, yeah, if those same terrorists had been raised in a peaceful loving Muslim or Islamic family in New Jersey, USA or Marseilles, France with kindness, love, understanding and generosity, they would not be terrorists.  The kindness, love, understanding can prevent evil before it's implanted, but once implanted then no amount of kindness and love can overcome it.

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"What's happening to you, is your fault. We are avenging our brothers in Syria." - Yahoo news, survivor account of shooting at concert.

When crazy statements like this need to be taken seriously, it's not just about a small group of terrorists anymore.

 

It doesn't shock me to hear the news. It's what goes on in the world today. And it's not going to stop by ******* the terrorists back. People without hope turn to extreme beliefs and desperate actions; more will take their place. There's a systemic problem in the global society we are all part of, whether we are responsible for it in any way doesn't make it less of our shared concern.

 

I believe terrorists target the innocent to refute the mindset that "I am not my brother's keeper". They're making it into everyone's problem.

 

My opinion is their actions should be condemned, and they are hurting their own cause by ******* civilians. But the sad truth is, terror and death of innocent people receive media attention. It may not be effective in helping their cause, but it is effective to make their presence known.

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Please, I would rather not discuss whatever these monsters have to say about why they did this.  You cannot tolerate people that are willing to massacre innocent people.

 

I would rather focus on the people in Paris.  There are still people that are fighting for their lives.  Unfortunately, the death toll is continuing to rise.  It is both saddening & enraging. 

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I am still shocked by what has happened. I have an aunt living in Paris, who was not affected, but it brought it so close when she rang to say that she is fine and the son of people we know there who was at the concert also survived one (at least physically).

I pray for them all injured or killed and for the relatives of everyone who died or looking for a loved one. I am sure everyone will be physically looked after but i also pray that in the short and especially the long term that there are easily and freely available mental health services for those injured and bereaved, wherever they are in the world.

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I don't understand this world!  I am numb as well concerning this terrible tragedy.  My prayers go out to all those who lost their lives, are wounded, and their families and loved ones.  The fact that these were all innocent people whose lives were struck down hurts me the most.  I hope this won't happen again.

 

So very sad.

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Even a day after, I find myself profoundly shaken and saddened.  I pray for both the victims and the terrorists that somehow some ultimate good can come out of the evil of this for both.  Although I absolutely condemn the evil of terrorism , I do not feel "good enough" in myself to cast stones at the perpetrators of the ghastly terrors in Paris.  I often wonder whether if everyone were kind and loving and compassionate and generous and understanding, whether terrorism would exist.  So I hold myself partly responsible for what has happened in Paris.  I personally am not a bright and shinning light of kindness, love, compassion, understanding, generosity!

 

Trust me, unless you are willing to massacre innocent civilians, you are above those monsters that committed these awful crimes.  No amount of kindness can stop them.  They are brainwashed with an evil ideology that seeks to only destroy. 

 

 

Actually.... everyone who promotes self-importance is a contributor to this. This includes current day psychological therapy, as well as a large majority of human society. So in all honesty, unless you have never told anyone that all they need is themselves (even with absolute positive intentions), you're a contributor.

 

Epictetus is absolutely right. If promotion of importance in others was promoted rather than the reverse that is, this kind of thing would be far rarer. And the only way to actually achieve something like that is recognizing the needs and values in others, rather than just yourself. Because as constructive as it may seem to tell someone they shouldn't rely on others to be happy, it's actually very destructive, as it adversely promotes selfishness and greed, which turns to the idea that you will only get what you want by taking it yourself, because you cannot rely on anyone else. This is the result.

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Even a day after, I find myself profoundly shaken and saddened.  I pray for both the victims and the terrorists that somehow some ultimate good can come out of the evil of this for both.  Although I absolutely condemn the evil of terrorism , I do not feel "good enough" in myself to cast stones at the perpetrators of the ghastly terrors in Paris.  I often wonder whether if everyone were kind and loving and compassionate and generous and understanding, whether terrorism would exist.  So I hold myself partly responsible for what has happened in Paris.  I personally am not a bright and shinning light of kindness, love, compassion, understanding, generosity!

 

Trust me, unless you are willing to massacre innocent civilians, you are above those monsters that committed these awful crimes.  No amount of kindness can stop them.  They are brainwashed with an evil ideology that seeks to only destroy. 

 

 

Actually.... everyone who promotes self-importance is a contributor to this. This includes current day psychological therapy, as well as a large majority of human society. So in all honesty, unless you have never told anyone that all they need is themselves (even with absolute positive intentions), you're a contributor.

 

Epictetus is absolutely right. If promotion of importance in others was promoted rather than the reverse that is, this kind of thing would be far rarer. And the only way to actually achieve something like that is recognizing the needs and values in others, rather than just yourself. Because as constructive as it may seem to tell someone they shouldn't rely on others to be happy, it's actually very destructive, as it adversely promotes selfishness and greed, which turns to the idea that you will only get what you want by taking it yourself, because you cannot rely on anyone else. This is the result.

 

 

I'm confused about what your point is? Are you saying that everyone is responsible for these attacks?  If so, I find that quite offensive as this is blaming the victims. I started this thread to show support for the victims in Paris, not blame them.

Edited by Jules19
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Even a day after, I find myself profoundly shaken and saddened.  I pray for both the victims and the terrorists that somehow some ultimate good can come out of the evil of this for both.  Although I absolutely condemn the evil of terrorism , I do not feel "good enough" in myself to cast stones at the perpetrators of the ghastly terrors in Paris.  I often wonder whether if everyone were kind and loving and compassionate and generous and understanding, whether terrorism would exist.  So I hold myself partly responsible for what has happened in Paris.  I personally am not a bright and shinning light of kindness, love, compassion, understanding, generosity!

 

Trust me, unless you are willing to massacre innocent civilians, you are above those monsters that committed these awful crimes.  No amount of kindness can stop them.  They are brainwashed with an evil ideology that seeks to only destroy. 

 

 

Actually.... everyone who promotes self-importance is a contributor to this. This includes current day psychological therapy, as well as a large majority of human society. So in all honesty, unless you have never told anyone that all they need is themselves (even with absolute positive intentions), you're a contributor.

 

Epictetus is absolutely right. If promotion of importance in others was promoted rather than the reverse that is, this kind of thing would be far rarer. And the only way to actually achieve something like that is recognizing the needs and values in others, rather than just yourself. Because as constructive as it may seem to tell someone they shouldn't rely on others to be happy, it's actually very destructive, as it adversely promotes selfishness and greed, which turns to the idea that you will only get what you want by taking it yourself, because you cannot rely on anyone else. This is the result.

 

 

I'm confused about what your point is? Are you saying that everyone is responsible for these attacks?  If so, I find that quite offensive as this is blaming the victims. I started this thread to show support for the victims in Paris, not blame them.

 

 

I'm not saying everyone is directly responsible for these attacks. I'm simply saying that these attacks happen because others care less about others and more about themselves. If society cared more about other people than they do, there would be less of these attacks. If you find it offensive that society leans towards greed and selfishness, then our feeling is mutual. I'm offended and appauled myself.

 

I didn't come into this thread to bash your support, so i apologize that it came off that way. But if you truly want to support those who have suffered loss, you can do so by recognizing what needs to change in society, and that is doing your best to spread mutual care. Neglecting the causes and being offended by people who are trying to get to the core of the issue is not the way to go about it. 

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Even a day after, I find myself profoundly shaken and saddened.  I pray for both the victims and the terrorists that somehow some ultimate good can come out of the evil of this for both.  Although I absolutely condemn the evil of terrorism , I do not feel "good enough" in myself to cast stones at the perpetrators of the ghastly terrors in Paris.  I often wonder whether if everyone were kind and loving and compassionate and generous and understanding, whether terrorism would exist.  So I hold myself partly responsible for what has happened in Paris.  I personally am not a bright and shinning light of kindness, love, compassion, understanding, generosity!

 

Trust me, unless you are willing to massacre innocent civilians, you are above those monsters that committed these awful crimes.  No amount of kindness can stop them.  They are brainwashed with an evil ideology that seeks to only destroy. 

 

 

Actually.... everyone who promotes self-importance is a contributor to this. This includes current day psychological therapy, as well as a large majority of human society. So in all honesty, unless you have never told anyone that all they need is themselves (even with absolute positive intentions), you're a contributor.

 

Epictetus is absolutely right. If promotion of importance in others was promoted rather than the reverse that is, this kind of thing would be far rarer. And the only way to actually achieve something like that is recognizing the needs and values in others, rather than just yourself. Because as constructive as it may seem to tell someone they shouldn't rely on others to be happy, it's actually very destructive, as it adversely promotes selfishness and greed, which turns to the idea that you will only get what you want by taking it yourself, because you cannot rely on anyone else. This is the result.

 

 

I'm confused about what your point is? Are you saying that everyone is responsible for these attacks?  If so, I find that quite offensive as this is blaming the victims. I started this thread to show support for the victims in Paris, not blame them.

 

 

I'm not saying everyone is directly responsible for these attacks. I'm simply saying that these attacks happen because others care less about others and more about themselves. If society cared more about other people than they do, there would be less of these attacks. If you find it offensive that society leans towards greed and selfishness, then our feeling is mutual. I'm offended and appauled myself.

 

I didn't come into this thread to bash your support, so i apologize that it came off that way. But if you truly want to support those who have suffered loss, you can do so by recognizing what needs to change in society, and that is doing your best to spread mutual care. Neglecting the causes and being offended by people who are trying to get to the core of the issue is not the way to go about it. 

 

 

Well, if people make up society & you are saying that it is society's fault, are you not blaming everyone? 

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Well, if people make up society & you are saying that it is society's fault, are you not blaming everyone? 

 

 

Indeed I am. But do you think denying the problem rather than actually trying to correct the issue is the way to go about it? You may not like the idea that "blame is being tossed around", but so long as that continues to be neglected, these sort of things will continue to happen. So you can ignore the core issue that is causing these kinds of things to happen, and let them continue to happen, or you can acknowledge the issue and work towards correcting it, by realizing that you as an individual can be a better person, and encourage others to do the same. 

The choice is yours.

I think what i'm trying to say, is that instead of taking it as a blaming game, use it to become a better person. But Fizzle is right. I apologize.

If you're capable, you can delete my posts if you like, I won't be opposed to that.

Edited by Lumessence
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Much support and sympathy from me to the people in Paris and anyone else effected. It must be a horrific experience. 

 

This isn't the political section of the site so I personally think its a shame to have it go in the direction of debate. I would like somewhere to express my support for those harmed. 

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"What's happening to you, is your fault. We are avenging our brothers in Syria." - Yahoo news, survivor account of shooting at concert.

When crazy statements like this need to be taken seriously, it's not just about a small group of terrorists anymore.

 

It doesn't shock me to hear the news. It's what goes on in the world today. And it's not going to stop by ******* the terrorists back. People without hope turn to extreme beliefs and desperate actions; more will take their place. There's a systemic problem in the global society we are all part of, whether we are responsible for it in any way doesn't make it less of our shared concern.

 

I believe terrorists target the innocent to refute the mindset that "I am not my brother's keeper". They're making it into everyone's problem.

 

My opinion is their actions should be condemned, and they are hurting their own cause by ******* civilians. But the sad truth is, terror and death of innocent people receive media attention. It may not be effective in helping their cause, but it is effective to make their presence known

You can,t really do anything about it because Jihad is inherent to there faith

Jihad (English pronunciation: /dʒɪˈhɑːd/; Arabic: جهاد‎ jihād [dʒiˈhæːd]) is an Islamic term referring to the religious duty of Muslims to maintain the religion. In Arabic, the word jihād is a noun meaning "to strive, to apply oneself, to struggle, to persevere".[1] A person engaged in jihad is called a mujahid, the plural of which is mujahideen (مجاهدين). The word jihad appears frequently in the Quran,[2] often in the idiomatic expression "striving in the way of God (al-jihad fi sabil Allah)", to refer to the act of striving to serve the purposes of God on this earth.[1][3][4][5]

Muslims and scholars do not all agree on its definition. Many observers—both Muslim[6] and non-Muslim[7]—as well as the Dictionary of Islam,[3] talk of jihad having two meanings: an inner spiritual struggle (the "greater jihad"), and an outer physical struggle against the enemies of Islam (the "lesser jihad")[3][8] which may take a violent or non-violent form.[1][9] Jihad is often translated as "Holy War",[10][11][12] although this term is controversial.[13][14] According to "Orientalist" (historian of the Middle East) Bernard Lewis, "the overwhelming majority of classical theologians, jurists", and specialists in the hadith "understood the obligation of jihad in a military sense."[15] Javed Ahmad Ghamidi states that there is consensus among Islamic scholars that the concept of jihad will always include armed struggle against wrong doers.[16]

It was generally supposed that the order for a general war could only be given by the Caliph (an office that was claimed by the Ottoman sultans), but Muslims who did not acknowledge the spiritual authority of the Caliphate (which has been vacant since 1923)—such as non-Sunnis and non-Ottoman Muslim states—always looked to their own rulers for the proclamation of a jihad. There has been in fact no universal warfare by Muslims on non-believers since the early caliphate. Some proclaimed jihad by claiming themselves as mahdi, e.g. the Sudanese Mahommed Ahmad in 1882.[17] In classical Islam, the military form of jihad was also regulated to protect civilians.[18]

Jihad is an important religious duty for Muslims. A minority among the Sunni scholars sometimes refer to this duty as the sixth pillar of Islam, though it occupies no such official status.[19] In Twelver Shi'a Islam, however, jihad is one of the ten Practices of the Religion.[20]

 

most muslims from the middle east are not moderate people l,I read something like 90% of Egyptians belive in punsishing people who leave the religion by death.Women are punished for being raped in alot of Muslim countries. There is really nothing you can do but enforce harsher immigration policies in europe,and have governments keep a closer eye on Muslim groups bombing them won,t help because more Muslims will just declare jihad because it is a major part of there faith.It will be very hard for both europeons and middle easterners to co exist iin the same country because they have completly different core values.

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