Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
jaiho

Pretty Much Sorted My Anhedonia

Recommended Posts

I would like to explain what works for me. My anhedonia was SSRI induced, either by Zoloft or Fluoxetine.

 

My baseline Symptoms when unmedicated are - (10 being max, 1 being lowest impact)

No emotions - 10

No Pleasure from activities - 7

PSSD (No libido or sexual pleasure) - 8

Fatigue - 7

Disassociation. - 9

 

My journey to treating Anhedonia came from Forums, befriending people who are experts in pharmacology, and from other people's experiences.

 

The biggest impact started when i discovered a compound called NSI-189

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSI-189

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/58442-nsi-189/

 

"NSI-189 is an experimental drug being studied by Neuralstem, Inc.[1] Research into NSI-189 has been funded by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) for the treatment of major depressive disorder."

Poll results:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/2p49hs/nsi189_poll_results/

 

Now i was skeptical at the start, as it is currently going through FDA trials, and the risks long term are unknown. However, i weighed up the risk/benefits, considering i can no longer tolerate Anhedonia for much longer so i went for it.

 

Within 22 days of dosing, 2x 20mg sublingual of freebase NSI-189, i felt emotions again for the first time in years. Music gave me chills, watching fireworks gave me joy, everything felt real again.

The best part of NSI-189 is that it does not affect receptors directly, that we know of. The mechanism of action is still unknown, but we do know it is a potent neurogenesis agent and hippocampus growth agent.

 

The issue with SSRIs, is that it messes with the brain's equilibrium, it blunts our highs and our lows, and can even leave permanent impacts well after the drug is discontinued. I believe NSI-189 is going to be a hit when it finishes trials and comes on the market.

 

To try and reverse the damage to receptors / SERT from SSRI use, Saint John's Wort can be used to upregulate 5HT1A, 5HT2A, and the main goal here is to reverse the action of SSRIs. St John's wort can bring back sexual function and emotions via 5HT1A upregulation.

 

Even though NSI-189 lifted my mood, dropped my disassociation, and brought on emotions, my sexual function was still impaired by SSRI use. St johns wort, or anything with 5HT2C antagonism (Agomelatine) would be helpful for this.

 

My mood score on NSI-189:

 

No Emotions - 3

No Pleasure from activities - 3

PSSD - 7

Fatigue - 3

Disassociation - 5

 

Huge improvement from one compound. I am trialling combinations to bring myself closer to 100%.

Thanks for reading.

Edited by jaiho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting stuff! Thanks for the links. Were you part of the preliminary studies? Where did you find that information about St. John's Wort btw? I can sift through Pub Med for it, but I wonder if you have a source that's collected relevant data already or something. Is that subreddit where this data was collected?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is very conflicting to me.

I tried St. John's Wort for a few days to help with depression, but once I noticed lackluster erections, I gave it up.

Now a week later, I've still been feeling feelings that are associated with PSSD..

Libido is down, erection quality is down, emotions are down.

On the flip side I have less stress. I feel like I should be stressing about this issue more than I am right now.. Maybe that's actually a bad thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is very conflicting to me.

I tried St. John's Wort for a few days to help with depression, but once I noticed lackluster erections, I gave it up.

Now a week later, I've still been feeling feelings that are associated with PSSD..

Libido is down, erection quality is down, emotions are down.

On the flip side I have less stress. I feel like I should be stressing about this issue more than I am right now.. Maybe that's actually a bad thing.

It's too bad no one seems to have data on SJW??? When I was looking for something else, I found a discussion where people were talking about the same problem as you though. Maybe the thread (or site) might be of interest to those affected by PSSD: http://www.pssdforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=185&start=40

 

(Based on my personal experience of overcoming it and on others' anecdotal reports, I suspect PSSD is a symptom of serotonin and/or dopamine sensitivity being *downregulated* in the brain. Either elimination or reduced dosage of all SSRI/SNRI type drugs for a long enough healing period is probably what's necessary to getting over it.)

 

Damn, that's another good reminder of something I forgot in my symptoms thread...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was able to experience atleast some enjoyment or pleasure from activities before starting an SSRI(Vilazodone HCL) afterwards nothing was interesting or enjoyable albeit i wasn't constantly irrationally sad at nonexistent things. On zoloft and bupropion now and seems like the longer i go on the worse the anhedonia gets. Would you be willing to share your source for NSI-189?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welcome
He writes of Polish Greetings to all forum users
Anhedonia suffer for a long time, for many years I used a lot of drugs based on feedback uptake of serotonin which only worsened my condition. The reason anhedonia is a deficit of dopamine and endorphins in the brain's reward system. Drugs that may be effective in the treatment of anhedonia is primarily dopamine agonists, naltrexone, tianeptine, bupropion, mirtazapine, selegiline. Currently, several days take selegiline at a dose of 10 mg of mirtazapine and 90 mg. Selegiline as inhibitors of reuptake of dopamine D2 dopamine autoreceptors downregulation lasts usually month. Mirtazapine being inverse agonist, 5HT2c increases the release of dopamine and noradrenaline. I believe that this kit will help me. If this set does not work out I'm going to use tianeptine. The drug acts on opioid receptors responsible for euphoria. In clinical doses, tianeptine upregulate the opioid system in the brain, this results in increased synthesis of endorphins and dopamine. Endorphins regulate the brain's reward system, thus increasing the synthesis of dopamine.
Endorphins regulate the brain's reward system, thus increasing the synthesis of dopamine.
To reward system back to equilibrium beyond the use of medications you need to keep sexual abstinence as the orgasm increases the release of dopamine in the nucleus accumbens, this has the effect that after orgasm falls to about two weeks dopamine levels while increasing prolactin levels. Orgasm kills dopamine. To reward system back to equilibrium should give up all drugs, maintain abstinence for a month and use appropriate drugs that force the body to a greater synthesis of dopamine.

Naltrexone can also be effective in the fight against anhedonia. The brain acting as a chemical defiance after long exposure to naltrexone increases the sensitivity of dopaminergic D2 receptors. The need for a time of about two months. And in this case to drug therapy proven to be effective it is necessary to complete abstinence from pleasant experiences for at least a month.

So you have to meet the two conditions need to come out of anhedonia -after the first periodic abstinence from all pleasures (No sex, no drugs) and drug treatment based on dopaminergic receptors upregulate.
Greetings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do I get my hands on that stuff? Probably impossibly hard to get. Of course, everybody knows we can't have nice things.

 

Speaking of neurotrophic agents, exercise is a big one. I'm thinking if I can get some drug (probably some kind of stimulant) to at least give me a tiny bit of energy/ motivation to START exercising intensely, that I could be helped by said exercise. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the reddit should be considered along with formal studies. Many of the people who reported in were all taking a mix of different nootropics together at the same time. Also I don't think they were on standardized doses. It could turn out the results are better or worse than reported there. Better to stick with what's available through official channels, imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i didnt participate in that poll. also, it's unknown whether anyone in the poll had anhedonia or not.

But the notable part of it shows the increase in emotional response.

 

That's the biggest feature in this substance, relief of the disconnected feeling anhedonia has. You begin to feel more connected to the world like pre anhedonia, music feels more there, it feels like its getting to your soul again and you can feel it.

 

I changed source of NSI 189 and unfortunately it stopped working, but im going to attempt to source the phosphate salt again which worked well for me. 

 

I think a combination of Psychedelics & NSI-189 are the cure for Anhedonia, they allow us to feel empathy, connection to the world. While standard psych drugs such as SSRIs, numb us to a degree, which is useful for dread/guilt kind of depressives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really love the sound of this med. Its just a shame that its unavailable here in the UK. I'm seriously considering moving to the states so I could trial meds like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got a question for you Jaiho. Does NSI-189 when working change your taste in music or do you enjoy pretty much what you like i.e. your musical taste? I ask because I'd hate to take the med and then I end up enjoying some garbage music lol.

 

Also I've read on another forum that there are side effects with NSI-189 particular head aches and pins and needles which can get quite bad I understand. Still it wouldn't stop me from trying it if I had the opportunity but it does make worried a bit.

 

Anyways look forward to your response on my questions / points.

 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With anhedonia i don't bother listening to music because it doesn't impact me. Music is a very emotional thing, and i use it as a way to really test how bad my anhedonia is.

 

NSI allowed me to enjoy the music i usually enjoy, again.

 

It does have some side effects, but almost none compared to SSRIs etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really interesting topic, thanks so much for posting about your rexperience.  Are you saying you did not get headaches as a side effect?  That's good news.

 

Are you still able to access NSI?  I'm not clear on this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jaiho where do you live in America mate? I'm thinking about looking for work in the states now and would need to know I'm in the right area to get some NSI-189!! ;-)

 

Look forward to your response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im in Australia.

You can locate a source for NSI on the longecity forums, i plan to obtain some from China at some point that i might sell myself

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep. TCA augmentation. check my other thread.

Or just use NSI-189, and add a TCA like nortriptyline for more dopamine release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to wikipedia, NSI-189 stimulates hippocampal neurogenesis.

 

So if you don't happen to be near any clinical trials for NSI-189, Metformin, which is normally used for diabetes, also stimulates hippocampal neurogenesis.

 

Peace out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An update to this. NSI-189 stopped working after 6 months of remission. Though, i changed the source, so either it's the source or ive become tolerant to the drug.

Looking at Parnate + Nortriptyline next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An update to this. NSI-189 stopped working after 6 months of remission. Though, i changed the source, so either it's the source or ive become tolerant to the drug.

Looking at Parnate + Nortriptyline next.

Wow mate that's terrible news. Reading that really ruined my Friday as I was banking on this medication fixing my anhedonia at some point in the future. Lets hope its the source and not the medication in general which stops working after a short time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't give up hope, its likely the source. It was somewhat questionable, as it was alot cheaper.

Im trying Parnate since ive always wanted to, and it increase dopamine the most.

Funnily, im not getting any side effects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

Announcements

×
×
  • Create New...