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Crumpet

Question About Female Attractiveness

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Hi,

So recently I've been working on turning my low self-esteem around. I am self conscious about my weight and always compare myself to the younger thinner me and feel unattractive. At the same time I kind of realise that I like most girls am suffering because I don't look like women in magazines do. Personally I want to hear the opinion of men as I feel women are either too kind or too critical of each other depending on the dynamic.

What's attractive in a woman? How much her weight matters? When does it matter? How much does physicality factor into attraction and how much is it behaviour and personality? Please be honest.

Trying to be objective and not too hard on myself I would say I'm 5'6 chubby(UK/EU/US size 16/44/12) but with an hourglass figure. I've got fairly large breasts and a large round bum. I dress relatively well for my shape, I carry myself with confidence (even if I am critical internally). I am flirty, have a great/wicked sense of humour and have been called sexy by friends/lovers. And yet I don't feel attractive.

I'm looking for justification I suppose because media can skew perceptions of reality. I want to know the honest opinion of strangers because I always feel like friends are just trying to be nice. How much am I actually being judged for being on the heavy side?

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This is just my opinion, but I find any woman who has a sense of confidence and just basically happy in who they are very sexy. Being stick-thin to me is not sexy. I like women with curves. :tounge:

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trying to be hones i would carefully say the following...

i think the culture / media is powerful, judgmental, and twisted.

i think beauty is a slippery term and is different in other places other times.

i think beauty is something held up for good and bad reasons.

i think we rarely win in comparing ourselves with others.

i think trying to be healthy is a generally good idea so eating and exercising is important to me.

i think that sometimes feeling attractive is a gift someone else gives us.

i think attractive needs to be something about the inside of a person.

i think men tend to be interested in beauty in a way that is wired in dna.

i think men can confuse what matters.

i think beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

i think the example of beauty in our world that is out of reach for so many and sometimes it is about making money.

i think beauty along with money, power, and iq are poor standards for assessment of value in regard to human worth.

i don't know if any of that helps.

these were things off the top of my head that came to mind - trying to be honest as you requested.

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I'm bisexual and not attracted to morbid obesity, but I think plus-sized can be just as sexy as slender - especially with an hour-glass shape and confidence! Sometimes I wish I had a little bit more meat on my bones, just a little bit. Anxiety and depression greatly reduced the amount I ate/eat and I'm down to a size 4 - rather miss my bigger butt. TMI, but true.

- Christina

Edited by neurotic_lady89

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Look around you. You will see people pairing up with every " type " of human being. I personally don't find it healthy to ask the opinions of others. You are going to get many different answers, and who cares what a bunch of individual strangers think. If you are appealing to X number of people, what does that mean for you in your real life.

It becomes just the other side of the same coin that tells women we are too short, too tall, too thin, too fat, and that our specific parts are not quite in the correct proportions. What are you left with at the end of the day ? You don't like what is shoved down our throats, yet you felt you needed to make sure that people know you are a particular shape. That's the unfortunate fallout. It not only damages your perception of yourself, but it continues the cycle of telling women that they are okay, or not at all okay.

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This is a really great post and let me state by saying that I am female but I have thought about this stuff a lot, obviously. I have been wondering the same thing myself. I think it just depends on the man and how pre-programmed they are from the media. This is my opinion so it's not the bible, but there are things that make certain women more attractive to the male species, biologically speaking, than other women. I think in the end the personality and connection matters the most, and also having sexual chemistry with someone is the utmost of importance. But, in my opinion things that make women attractive to men in a physical sense, if that's what you asking are:

-Symmetry, a symmetrical face

-Long hair, as this is a sign of fertility

-A good waist to hip ratio, some curves and not stick thin

-Healthy teeth, skin etc

-As blunt as it is, boobs and butt... argh. Some guys like huge ones, seems like some guys are ok with small ones. I'm flat as hell and I hate it, but I haven't had someone dump me over it.

I think the fashion industry creates these ridiculous standards for beauty that are completely unattainable and not even that attractive to most males. High fashion editorials are artistically beautiful, but the models are way too thin and go to great and unhealthy lengths to do so. Glamour models in my opinion are what more men are into (Kate Upton, or a Marilyn Monroe type).

Size 12 is not considered "chubby" in the real world. I think it you carry yourself well and exude confidence men will swarm towards you. I have a friend who is size 10/12 and doesn't have model good looks, but almost every man I know has had a crush at her at some point. That's like what Marilyn had - she just exuded (a word? sp?) confidence and sexuality that couldn't be described. So work on your confidence. :) I am working on mine myself! Let's go, girl!

Edited by chiquen81

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There has to be some degree of physical attractiveness, at least in the beginning. I believe even the most polar opposite couples would not have given each other consideration if there wasn't at least a hint of attraction by one of the parties. I even believe adults tend to treat those that they are attracted to better than others. What people look for is completely dependent on the individual. One guy might think you are quite frankly the sexist and most attractive women they ever seen, others may not even second glance in your direction. For me personally, classiness and education are major selling factors, and oddly enough, the manor and style of clothing. If she looks like she stepped out of a Ralph Lauren catalog, to me that's attractive. A college educated, sophisticated, well dressed woman is what I can say is attractive. That's where I would start, then the physical attraction becomes the next factor.

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The answer to all of your questions are, "it depends." It's not the worlds greatest answer but its the most accurate beauty and attractiveness are subjective and vary wildly from person to person. I can answer your questions from my own individual perspective which I have found to be fairly typical overall.

What's attractive in a woman?

Above all else confidence and personability is what is most attractive. A woman who is physically more attractive may get a temporary upper hand but in the long term the woman who is easier to be around is going to get ahead.

How much her weight matters?

To me it doesn't. From what I have observed from talking to my friends is there tends to be range they consider acceptable but the limits tend to be flexible. Its really up to the individual.

How much does physicality factor into attraction and how much is it behaviour and personality?

I mentioned before that initially that physicality played the larger role but as time goes on behavior and personality take on a larger role. If a woman is nice to look at but isn't much fun to be around its not going to work long term.

As far as the media skewing the perceptions of reality its absolutely true but not everyone uses that as their own personal benchmark of attractiveness.

How much am I actually being judged for being on the heavy side?

By some people not at all by others a lot. We all get judged for something. Your choices are really to accept it, change it, or realize they are wrong. Don't beat yourself up over it.

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For starters I am 5'8" and 285 pounds, but I'm loosing weight to try to get feeling better physically.

This is the way I think:

1. Do I think I look okay?

2. Do I feel okay?

If I can answer yes to either of them, that's good

To hell with other people think about me. This is the way I am. I may not be completely okay with how I look, and that's fine. I can change that. Other people have not walked the path I have, so their opinion means nothing to me.

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I think that there tends to be pressure on women to look certain ways, just as there is for men to act certain ways. It sucks. Media definitely has influence. But so does family, peers, and everyone else that has had a hand in our development.

What do I find attractive in women? That depends. If a woman is very physically attractive but I find isn't compatible, I would rate low. If I think a woman is moderately attractive physically and pulls me in with her personality, I would rate high.

Physical attributes that I like:

1) Ass-ets. Honestly, I probably spend more time that I'd like to admit scanning for this.

2) Eyes. Holy sh*t the eyes. Like they can pierce through me.

3) Medium-Large size breasts (although I'd rather like smaller, natural ones better than bigger fake ones)

4) Hair. Not very picky but I tend to like longer styles. Some short styles are sexy though. Color doesn't matter that much.

5) Overall, slim or medium build w/curves. Not too slim (stick figure).

Personality attributes that I like:

1) Honesty

2) Intellect

3) Satirical/edgy sense of humor

4) Kind (except when #3)

5) Seductive

Edited by afflicted

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Great to see people's thoughts. Thanks for everyone's honestly! I agree with a lot that's been said. It's always easier to be objective about this stuff when considering others rather than yourself.

Look around you. You will see people pairing up with every " type " of human being. I personally don't find it healthy to ask the opinions of others. You are going to get many different answers, and who cares what a bunch of individual strangers think. If you are appealing to X number of people, what does that mean for you in your real life.

It becomes just the other side of the same coin that tells women we are too short, too tall, too thin, too fat, and that our specific parts are not quite in the correct proportions. What are you left with at the end of the day ? You don't like what is shoved down our throats, yet you felt you needed to make sure that people know you are a particular shape. That's the unfortunate fallout. It not only damages your perception of yourself, but it continues the cycle of telling women that they are okay, or not at all okay.

I wanted to address this post though. It took a lot for me to make this thread and explain something that I'm struggling with and that makes me feel incredibly vulnerable. While I understand this is a topic that is an issue with a lot of people, I made it to try and help myself, to see how others think and that others are probably not as critical of strangers as I am of myself.

Your post made me feel ashamed for doing that and I don't want to be shamed when I'm seeking a healthier outlook.

I don't like the fact I feel need for assurance, that I need someone to tell me I have attractive qualities and it's ok if I don't have the build of a fitness model. But I do. I get some peace of mind from it. I got dumped recently and couldn't help but feel bad about myself as the only person who was reminding me I was attractive left my life. I don't want to seek someone to fill basically just that role in my life when I'm not ready for a relationship so I'm seeking insight into strangers minds, so I don't feel as vulnerable.

Thank you for being understanding.

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Great to see people's thoughts. Thanks for everyone's honestly! I agree with a lot that's been said. It's always easier to be objective about this stuff when considering others rather than yourself.

I wanted to address this post though. It took a lot for me to make this thread and explain something that I'm struggling with and that makes me feel incredibly vulnerable. While I understand this is a topic that is an issue with a lot of people, I made it to try and help myself, to see how others think and that others are probably not as critical of strangers as I am of myself.

Your post made me feel ashamed for doing that and I don't want to be shamed when I'm seeking a healthier outlook.

I don't like the fact I feel need for assurance, that I need someone to tell me I have attractive qualities and it's ok if I don't have the build of a fitness model. But I do. I get some peace of mind from it. I got dumped recently and couldn't help but feel bad about myself as the only person who was reminding me I was attractive left my life. I don't want to seek someone to fill basically just that role in my life when I'm not ready for a relationship so I'm seeking insight into strangers minds, so I don't feel as vulnerable.

Thank you for being understanding.

Just to add in, and this doesn't change an ounce of what I said about plus-sized women being attractive too - I didn't realize you are a U.S. size 12, which isn't even plus-sized. I am sure you are a very beautiful woman with a lot to offer. Break-ups are rough as hell. For me, my rough experience was leaving an emotional abuser who made me feel ugly and unsexy for the first time in my life (NOT saying your relationship was anything like this at all, just that different things can trigger insecurity and body-image issues). It takes time, but I hope you feel a little better having read what most people said here.

FWIW, I don't think whatchagonnado is coming from a malicious place, but I can't speak for other people.

- Christina

Edited by neurotic_lady89

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Thank you neurotic_lady,

I'm glad you're out of that relationship. Letting people close means you trust them with your vulnerabilities and it must have been incredibly painful to have them exploit that privilege. :(

The week of the break up I had a regular check up at the doctors and I was told my BMI is 35, which is categorised as severely obese. I know BMI isn't reliable, I don't feel unhealthy or unfit, have never had any cardiovascular issues, but being told I'm severely obese by a doctor does carry a punch to your self-esteem along with adding anxiety about not knowing your own body and health. Obviously I'm making changes to be healthier but I don't want to feel undeserving of attention or even a relationship (further down the line) in the mean time.

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Thank you neurotic_lady,

I'm glad you're out of that relationship. Letting people close means you trust them with your vulnerabilities and it must have been incredibly painful to have them exploit that privilege. :(

The week of the break up I had a regular check up at the doctors and I was told my BMI is 35, which is categorised as severely obese. I know BMI isn't reliable, I don't feel unhealthy or unfit, have never had any cardiovascular issues, but being told I'm severely obese by a doctor does carry a punch to your self-esteem along with adding anxiety about not knowing your own body and health. Obviously I'm making changes to be healthier but I don't want to feel undeserving of attention or even a relationship (further down the line) in the mean time.

I don't mean to put down good health, but I think BMI can be a bit... "extreme." When I weighed 135 lbs and wore a size 8, I was considered overweight according to BMI and was like "Really? Come on!" Size 12 is NOT severely obese!

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I'm bisexual and I find "chubby" women just as attractive as slim ones depending on other traits like face/personality/being proportionate. Always been a big fan of larger bums and curvy hips too, most of my straight male friends say they prefer that over thin builds as well. Hour glass figure, witty humor, people say you are sexy, you aren't cursed with the wrong plumbing and you come off as confident... I'd say you are set. I understand that some people do prefer the stereotypical "hot" girl that looks like a celeb, but would you really want to be with someone who is so shallow as to only care about your looks?

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Hmm.

A lot of wisdom here, Crumpet.

I'll have to say that I find healthy attractive.

Self-confidence, too.

And intelligence.

And the ability to physically perform what one wants to perform, whether that is in the gym, hiking and camping, running/walking, bedroom, whatever.

I agree with others that if you sit in a shopping mall for long enough, you'll find all kinds of pairings, and a lot of those folks are happy with each other.

Sorry - I don't mean this to be hurtful at all... you say "the younger, thinner me". If this comparison bothers you so much, then why not reacquire that self? While I agree that a US size 12 isn't a dealbreaker for me (or MANY men), it is seemingly within you to reduce your weight and increase your self-esteem, no? Diet, exercise, a hobby like walking/running/hiking/swimming or something?

Take care. I hope you get past this point of contention and find happiness!

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Like Ratboy said, I want a woman to be healthy. I want her to care about herself, and look like she cares about herself, both inside and out. If I see saw two identical twins, but one had an extra 40 pounds, im going to choose the one who appears to care about herself more.

Edited by FarmerSmith

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i am feeling for women here...

a lot of things may be true but maybe some things also need to be said.

there are things we can control and things we cannot control, or cannot control very well. that can be true no matter what size we are or what size we dream of.

i am 6' 4" and i did not do one thing to make that happen but someone gets to say that it is good or bad...really?!

genetics = winners and losers?

sometimes the way someone looks is about a physical issue they have, or, an emotional issue they have but we get to call them unattractive becaue they don't look like barbie or some model? we get to declare they are not worth someone's love or attention? they get to wear the label we give them? they get to be in the box we create?

who gets to decide who is appealing? what standard are they using and who gets to call it absolute? why do we believe stupid superficial stuff so much of the time without asking questions or fighting it? or how about looking into our own shallowness and what is broken about ourselves and our opinions?

i was also thinking of those who don't have the luxury of affording running shoes or organic options and how this conversation starts leaning somewhat superficial or predjudice against people who are different and maybe cannot afford to accessorize or have a gym membership. who are we?

can just surviving in this culture be beautiful when you don't have the money that helps make the changes and buys the lipstick?

i think women are devalued in our culture.

i wish people knew they were beautiful when others don't think so.

that is all.

i guess i am ranting - i just get tired of it and how the whole conversation hurts people.

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Farmer - " cares about herself more " ? Why not just leave it at what you prefer and not include some wildly judgmental and more than likely very wrong deduction.

This is a perfect example of why what a bunch of strangers are attracted to is worthless. And I understand the emotion behind wanting to be validated, but even in the original post there is a need to reassure that they have the stereotypical approved female shape. I just think that while it is normal for us all to feel how we feel about the messages this world hammers into us, care needs to be shown that the words used are about the individual ( ourselves ) only.

^eta - Crumpet, I really, really, understand the emotional grasping you are doing. My comments are not about the need, they are about the reasons for that need...and they are fickle reasons, sometimes dictated by changing view of what is attractive in a woman. None of us can beat that game, no matter how much we put into it and are made to feel ashamed for merely existing.

Edited by whatchagonnado

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Don't be bamboozled by the images promoted in magazines and commercials. To me, an attractive woman is a female who knows who she is and is confident with the way God made her. She's a woman who builds her house with love and compassion. People nowadays are so stuck on being skinny and looking like a model. The truth of the matter is with time all those 'looks' will fade away. However, the character and integrity of the woman will always remain the same. An attractive woman is a thoughtful forward thinking individual. I focus on the female attributes that time cannot corrupt or degrade.

For instance, if I'm married to a drop dead gorgeous woman and she happened to get really banged up in a car accident will I still 'love' her? If my attraction is based on carnal things instead of those eternal I might file for divorce. Who wants to be in a relationship solely because of looks? Not this guy!!

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1. Anyone who's primarily concerned with your physically appearance probably isn't someone you want to be with.

2. BMI is BS. - " The person who dreamed up the BMI said explicitly that it could not and should not be used to indicate the level of fatness in an individual. The BMI was introduced in the early 19th century by a Belgian named Lambert Adolphe Jacques Quetelet. He was a mathematician, not a physician. He produced the formula to give a quick and easy way to measure the degree of obesity of the general population to assist the government in allocating resources. In other words, it is a 200-year-old hack."

3. Healthy IS NOT dependent on your size, so don't listen to anyone who uses "health" to justify their preference for normalized (and often unhealthy) standards of beauty. (I don't care what you prefer, just don't give it the guise of worrying about someone's health)

4. Ingest body positive media. Look up The Militant Baker, Curvy Fashionista, or there's ooooodles of folks on tumblr.

5. My main advice in most any situation: It's your business, and anyone who doesn't like it can f*** right off.

:hugs:

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Weight does matter. Don't join the crowd that say that weight doesn't matter. I am sure you are better than that!

I have been suffering depresion, loneliness, anxiety and other mental issues all my life all caused by my self perception as ugly and unwanted. So I can relate. However, I firmly believe that weight (or more correctly body composition) is very manageable for both women and men. If you are facialy unattractive, that is a different story (my case) and that takes more work to fix because you simply cannot move your eyes closer or make your head smaller. But if your only problem is weight, you are a lucky person.

 

The problem is that people are not wiling to make sacrafices. And by sacrafices I mean a complete change in your life. Everything. The moment you get up in the morning, you need to think about the key actions in your day that will help you to achieve your goal. You have to plan meals, cook every day, go sleep early, exercise, learn about nutrition, buy expensive supplements, drink more water and go to the bathroom every hour. You are going to have to learn the science behing fat loss. If food tastes too good, spit it out. You have to limit interactions with certain people that make you eat things you can't eat. Yes, you might have to abandon some of your friends if they don't support you. You might have to limit time you spend with your family if that makes you eat unhealthy. You have to limit parties, celebrations even lunches with colleagues. You are going to have to face people who will laugh at your new lifestyle. I personally moved from my old flat to a new one that has gym in the same building. And the worst part is, if you have bad genes that make you naturally store more fat, you have to do most of these things for the rest of your life. Every. Single. Day. Never stop. And it is going to get tougher and tougher. Two weeks into your diet you will feel hungry, angry, tired, depressed. You will want to give up. Your work performance will suffer. You will meet people who will be stuffing themselves with sugar and not gain a single gram of fat. You have to acknowledge the brutal unfairness of this world and just be focused on your goal. 

 

But you know what? It is worth it... This is how it is done.

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Weight does matter. Don't join the crowd that say that weight doesn't matter. I am sure you are better than that!

I have been suffering depresion, loneliness, anxiety and other mental issues all my life all caused by my self perception as ugly and unwanted. So I can relate. However, I firmly believe that weight (or more correctly body composition) is very manageable for both women and men. If you are facialy unattractive, that is a different story (my case) and that takes more work to fix because you simply cannot move your eyes closer or make your head smaller. But if your only problem is weight, you are a lucky person.

 

Though to be fair, some people have physical conditions that make their weight a *lot* less manageable. I have both a thyroid condition and PCOS, and so my weight will never be something I can completely control. Even though I exercise every single day (at least an hour), eat a low calorie and low carb diet, and take medications for both conditions, I'll always be at least a little overweight. If I ate a normal amount and only exercised a few days a week, my weight would get absolutely out of control. Even now, it randomly fluctuates and I need to keep two different sizes of clothing.

 

*Shrugs* I'm perfectly happy/comfortable with my body though, and I don't mind being kinda chubby. But at the same time, I wouldn't say that someone's "lucky" if weight is their only problem. Because of my other conditions, I'm automatically at higher risk for a bunch of other stuff. And there isn't a whole lot that I can do about it.

 

But, anyway, I've got to disagree with you loner124 - weight really doesn't matter that much. I've never had an issue with people being interested in me. I get checked out occasionally. I'm not gorgeous or anything, but I've got a big grin and a big laugh. I honestly think that people tend to be more attracted to confidence and personality, if I'm any kind of example.

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