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afflicted

Monogamy

Love, sex, and all of those things  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. What best describes you?

    • Monogamous
      48
    • Polyamorous
      6
    • Open relationship, but strictly for casual
      0
    • Not interested
      3


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Wow. I'm surprised all this is coming from you. You definitely need better friends, no offense. These people you hang out with are giving you horrible advice & are bad influences. And than you say "I was going to break up with him anyway" sounds extremely cold. I mean would you like your boyfriend to do that to you? How are you ever going to have a healthy relationship with that mindset? How do you even know he didn't care? I'm sure he was a bit hurt by it even if he didn't show it to you in person.

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Well, the best thing to do was just break up with them in general. I mean if something goes wrong in your next relationship, would you consider cheating again as "revenge" for them treating you bad. You have to truly ask yourself that. Since that's not a healthy way of going about things. If it's not working out just break up with them & move on.

And good, you don't need awful people like that in your life. But still sucks you have no friends at the moment. But that's still better than having bad influence friends.

And what specifically are you referring to for your questions?

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That's a really bizarre way of looking at it. Let's say you did enjoy cheating with that perspective, I guess you would have done it to every single boyfriend you have in your life or even a husband. Just sounds really cold to me.

And than you say things that are right or wrong change all the time. What if you get this idea in your head that cheating is the "right" thing to do at a particular time? How would you feel if your long time boyfriend was going behind your back cheating on you without you knowing? Than you find out a year into it. Would it bother you, or would you be saying "oh, I guess it was the right thing for him to do at the time". You see how ridiculous that sounds.

Edited by GAJ123

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Well, no one can stop you in terms of what type of behavior you'll have in future relationships. That's entirely up to you, but you'll just have to ask yourself if it's worth it in the end & what the consequences will be. I've read so many stories of how cheating has destroyed lives. And in some cases turned even deadly.

And that's a bit different since that's physical pain, not emotional. I think the death penalty should still be in place, but just for the very worst criminals. And in terms of physical harm, if you have to defend yourself from someone than of course it's okay to fight back. And if you mean hurt emotionally, than no, I'd rather break up with them, than to get even. Since if someone ever cheated on me, that would be the end of the relationship as far as I'm concerned.

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I don't think things that hurt people are the right thing to do. What about people that get executed for m***** though? If someone hurts you is it okay to hurt them back?

That's true, I just want to know the real reason some things are right or not. I don't know what would have happened if it turned out I liked it. I started smoking because I wanted to know why my family wouldn't quit for me. : /

The issue is basically that our perceptions of what hurt us are our own perceptions and others don't automatically share them. If we feel someone else is intentionally hurting us, we might feel vindication to hurt them back. That's the eye for an eye, age old question. I prefer to just cut ties if someone has no interest in my well being and move on. It usually makes me feel better than stooping to another's level.

But what makes this issue more complicated are perceptions. A lot of times when we hurt each other it's not like a conscious intentional process. It's more like stepping on someone's toe. A lot of the time people are just wandering through life relatively obliviously and are unaware of the 'pain causing' ramifications of their actions, unless someone is very vocal about it like, 'owww!!!!! You're stepping on my toe!'

With emotions and psychological states, it's measuring how hurtful something is, is way more complex than a toe stepping situation as there isn't a concrete piece of evidence like 'foot on toe' that we can all point at. So people can deny the amount of pain, people can exaggerate the amount of pain, and people can be completely oblivious to the pain in the first place. So it's very possible for one person to 'feel' like another person doesn't care about them at all, but the other person may have a totally different way of expressing 'care' than we are familiar with, or we could be going through a tough time ourselves where emotionally (particularly with depression) we have difficulty seeing whatever is there for what it is or isn't.

I'm not saying that is the situation with your boyfriend (it's very possible he didn't care at all, and you're completely correct), but in most situations for me, unless I have outright proof of direct intentional harm:

1. Foot goes on toe

2. I say that hurts,

3. Foot goes on toe harder

Unless it is concrete like that I would never choose revenge, as my perceptions of why someone might be doing an action that causes me harm could be incorrect. Revenge is on purpose. It's very intentional action. Pain can be caused upon us by misunderstandings, by people being mentally challenged (unable to comprehend), immature (like children), or I often I could have done a very poor job of explaining my situation.

It's unforutnately common for some to assume others are 'mind readers' and should just know better. I'm not saying this is something you do, but have you ever known someone who would get hurt about something, sulk, and stay vinditive about the issue rather than coming clean and talking about it to work on it? It's the equivalent of letting the foot sit on the toe and silently getting angry. Pain needs to be openly communicated for people to understand it and better prevent it.

So yeah, the minimum criteria for an eye for an eye, is very very solid evidence I can pin on someone's intentions, and it can't be a vague feeling of being hurt. I need measurable proof in their actions. Even then, for me at least, it's usually healthier to just move on to healthier people for me who respect me more than continue to involve with unheathy ones.

As for why things are right and wrong, it's basically cultural norms that define those things. Some of these norms had more positive aspects of goals (like monogamy is pretty good for children, to have stable parents) but a lot of them are just plain nonsense. Like illegal drug being a 'devil's drug' and alchohol being perfectly legal, when alcohol causes way more car accidents, unwanted pregnancies, and violence.

I use ethics as an alternative method (harmful/helpful/neutral), which is basically a calculated trajectory of harm reduction. Ethics are a lot like watching where your feet go, so you don't step on others and hurt them, only your feet are your 'actions taken more broadly.' You watch and your study actions to reduce harm.

The problem you'll run into is ethics require a lot of intellect and calculation to perform. Simple concepts like 'right and wrong' can be understood by children, or people with other kinds of disabilities (intellectual ones) and .... People who are too lazy or selfish to use ethics. :ermm: So ethics aren't necessarily the right choice for everyone all the time. Having simple, often somewhat religious rules set forth by societies catches a 'broader' net of participants.

When people like us aren't very responsive to rules, and start asking 'why?' this is terrifying to many. In general civilizations fear free thinkers, because the average person believes without 'rules' people would run amok and hurt each other greatly. But it's a choice what you make of life without arbitrary 'rules.' Societies are kind of right to be afraid. Once you've abandoned the rules. Who knows what you'd cook up?

We can either try to be ethical, or stop caring about hurting others. I've put my vote in trying to not hurt others. My civilization isn't completely pleased with me, but I've got a pretty good record of reducing harm to others. So it can work to make up your own rules through study, but it requires diligent thought and continuously good intentions.

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Well, no one can stop you in terms of what type of behavior you'll have in future relationships. That's entirely up to you, but you'll just have to ask yourself if it's worth it in the end & what the consequences will be. I've read so many stories of how cheating has destroyed lives. And in some cases turned even deadly.

And that's a bit different since that's physical pain, not emotional. I think the death penalty should still be in place, but just for the very worst criminals. And in terms of physical harm, if you have to defend yourself from someone than of course it's okay to fight back. And if you mean hurt emotionally, than no, I'd rather break up with them, than to get even. Since if someone ever cheated on me, that would be the end of the relationship as far as I'm concerned.

Well, I don't plan on doing it ever again. :) To bad there isn't emotional law.

Hopefully you don't. It's not worth it in the end. And don't go out with married men anymore! lol Once you find out that the guy is married just go no contact on them. Don't let them lead you on. I mean if their going on actual dates with you what do you expect their intentions are? Definitely not to be just friends, that's for sure. There's some that are sleazy enough to even use their kids to get what they want, which it seems like the one guy did to you.

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Well, than that's a whole other story. I mean that's fine if you would want that. The thing is the married guys you were seeing you're not even sure if they have an open marriage. What type of relationship do you prefer? Seems you want something that's not exactly monogamous? I haven't read all your posts in this thread to know what you exactly want.

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I'm confused. :( Why don't men want the same thing that I want?

But what is it that you want from men if you're saying you don't know what you want? You're saying men don't want the same thing you want? So I'm extremely confused now lol

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I don't want eternal promiscuity, that's for sure. It seems like that's what most men want. I want someone to love me and only me forever. When I say me I mean the real me, not my body. :)

True. Well, I'm sure eventually you'll find someone where you're both on the same page in terms of your wants.

Edited by GAJ123

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I don't want eternal promiscuity, that's for sure. It seems like that's what most men want. I want someone to love me and only me forever. When I say me I mean the real me, not my body. :)

This is tricky. I've been in a long distance relationship for about 8 years. I love with her and she loves me, but due to various circumstances, we couldn't immigrate and we may never be able to work out this situation unless our health problems resolve or cultural barriers like immigration qualifications and religious structures change.

I could probably love another person in my life time equally, but I don't think I could stop loving her, cause she's just too cool and she never did a single thing to deserve not being loved. She's not just good looking, but she's incredibly sweet, thoughtful, empathetic, and has literaly saved my life through cleverness when medical problems were directly threatening my life, and no doctors would do anything to help me.

Could I give sexual exclusivity to another woman so she doesn't experience pain? Probably. Can I stop loving my best friend in the entire world just so another woman has 'all of my love.' Hell no. My best friend gets my love for the rest of our lives. I can probably love someone closer and more accessable equally, if not more in person, if they are equally cool. I'm not going to screw over my best friend just so I can get laid while someone else feels secure in my lack of love for others.

I'd be dead, literally. I owe her some love and affection and I'll honor this. It is all quite tricky, but basically, 'circumstantial' is about as good as people will get from me. There is no 'rule' that could ever work for every situation.

Edited by chaku

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I don't think I could have a long distance relationship. For me it's out of sight out of mind, I've mostly forgotten about my love for my ex boyfriends. When I look back on them I wonder if I loved them at all, I know I thought I did at the time. I hate it when men say they still or will always love their ex's. I feel like they must be stuck and need to move on or go back to their ex.

Maybe you didn't love them? No kind of love I've experienced works that way for me. If someone in my life is situated in a position where I can be receptive of feeling love and they are worthy of love (parent, friend, romantic partner) then it generally can happen without 'stealing love' from others. Feeling love for one person doesn't stop me from feeling love for another if they are situated and also worthy.

My childhood friend died, and I still love her, I dream about her frequently, though she was burned to ashes and is long since out of sight. If a parent does something horrific to me I can stop loving them. It's the same with a romantic partner. I have to make a conscious choice to stop loving and 'destroy' the love which seems pointless and harmful to people who have done me no wrong.

If it doesn't last, to me it's not real love. It's probably infatuation and lust. Love transcends death, it's that powerful. I'll keep loving my dead friends, families, and anyone who has ever been authentically romantic with me, for what they are, as long as they deserve it. No one will ever own my affections to anyone.

Edited by chaku

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I like monogamy, at least in serious relationships, because I do not like sharing. For me, lack of satisfaction usually means either something has to be worked on or I am supposed to "go." I have nothing against polyamory, I just know better than to try it...and turn into a hurt, evil, person! Some people never feel that way with more than one lover and all the power to them, I don't judge people's lifestyle choices.

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Sorry, I edited this into my last post: I mean love only me in the romantic way, I think there is love for friends and family too.

I'm not saying what you have going is bad, it just reminded me of how guys feel about their ex's.

To me it seems pointless to carry old feelings around with me, they drag me down and bug me. When I break up with someone all I feel is heartbreak, I really don't want to carry that around with me. I've had a few men try to recreate with me what they had with their ex or they want me because I remind them of their ex. It really bothers me that they don't see me as an individual and that the relationship as something that's unique depending on who's in it.

Individuality is really important. I have no interest in replicating people so we agree on that. But basically it is possible to refocus romantic love while still appreciating the platonic love that exists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_love

This has been the plan my friend and I have mutually shared for the past few years. If either of us find someone who is very compatible and accessable in person we will attempt to refocus our relationship into appreciating the beauty we have offered each other's lives, and appreciating the beauty of each other's humanity while removing the sexual and romantic elements so there can be a clean slate.

She can't handle psychologically me being romantically involved with another woman either. The few times these situations have come close to occurring were extremely distressing to her, but since we both truly love each other, we both want what is best for each other, This would mean being open to the ideas of in person relationships. rather than being eternally stranded long distance.

The transition would be painful, but if we love each other, we will experience pain if the end result is for the best. If she is going to experience any pain in the transition, she will not be abandoned however. She has depression too, it might **** her and I'm her best friend. I will never stop being her friend for any woman.

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I've been thought that people have to mourn the loss of the romantic relationship they are in before they start a new one or the new one won't work out.

There will be mourning, yes. But the idea that a certain process needs to be done in a specific order sounds like a rule.

There are likely situations that contradict the theory. I never act according to rules unless a law will threaten my life. Everything is circumstantial and if I meet a polyamouras woman for example, I may have time to mourn with my monogamous woman.

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Chaku, you say that you and this woman have a plan, yet you then say that she became very distressed when there was a possibility of you being in a romantic relationship with someone else. As of right now, is she truly open to this ? I can of course only go by the bit you have said, but I wonder if she is in some ways more of a woman to fall back on. This wouldn't change deep feelings, but if it would " k**l her " to be abandoned, is this a good situation for her ? If she has fears of being abandoned and she already has shown great distress over romantic changes...do you see how, aside from all the plans and words that sound good, this isn't a situation where both are on equal footing, physically and emotionally ? Saying that one wants what is best for another doesn't mesh with what you are describing. Again, just from I see here, she is trying to hang on to the hopes that changes will happen and she can be with you in every way. You are more " open ". I don't know. Lofty ideas sometimes don't address the reality of human heads, hearts, and all the experiences that make up each of us human beings. I feel for her mental health, only because of what you have sad of her reaction and how future arrangements will affect her.

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I like monogamy, at least in serious relationships, because I do not like sharing. For me, lack of satisfaction usually means either something has to be worked on or I am supposed to "go." I have nothing against polyamory, I just know better than to try it...and turn into a hurt, evil, person! Some people never feel that way with more than one lover and all the power to them, I don't judge people's lifestyle choices.

Thanks for contributing. As the poll suggests, people are clearly more comfortable with monogamy and for the very reasons that you mention. What is common is the view that people belong to perhaps their family and one other person. That one other person is expected to satisfy most of our wants/needs for the rest of our lives and if they don't, there is something wrong.

IMO, a lack of satisfaction doesn't necessarily mean that something is wrong with the relationship or that it's time to bail. I mean, it could be the case if there is a safety issue. But I think that it could instead mean that we want to have others in our lives as well, in a more intimate way, but we never really have the option to do so as it is seen as unacceptable.

Chaku, you say that you and this woman have a plan, yet you then say that she became very distressed when there was a possibility of you being in a romantic relationship with someone else. As of right now, is she truly open to this ? I can of course only go by the bit you have said, but I wonder if she is in some ways more of a woman to fall back on. This wouldn't change deep feelings, but if it would " k**l her " to be abandoned, is this a good situation for her ? If she has fears of being abandoned and she already has shown great distress over romantic changes...do you see how, aside from all the plans and words that sound good, this isn't a situation where both are on equal footing, physically and emotionally ? Saying that one wants what is best for another doesn't mesh with what you are describing. Again, just from I see here, she is trying to hang on to the hopes that changes will happen and she can be with you in every way. You are more " open ". I don't know. Lofty ideas sometimes don't address the reality of human heads, hearts, and all the experiences that make up each of us human beings. I feel for her mental health, only because of what you have sad of her reaction and how future arrangements will affect her.

In this case, I agree. If she can't stand the idea of Chaku in another relationship then I'm led to believe that she will not be able to let go of the romantic/sexual elements when it's decided to remove them. She is essentially monogamous. What I see happening is the relationship ending completely. But, maybe I'm wrong and things will work out as planned? Feelings can change I suppose.

I'm curious, whatchagonnado, what is your take on this topic/thread, generally?

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Chaku, you say that you and this woman have a plan, yet you then say that she became very distressed when there was a possibility of you being in a romantic relationship with someone else. As of right now, is she truly open to this ? I can of course only go by the bit you have said, but I wonder if she is in some ways more of a woman to fall back on. This wouldn't change deep feelings, but if it would " k**l her " to be abandoned, is this a good situation for her ? If she has fears of being abandoned and she already has shown great distress over romantic changes...do you see how, aside from all the plans and words that sound good, this isn't a situation where both are on equal footing, physically and emotionally ? Saying that one wants what is best for another doesn't mesh with what you are describing. Again, just from I see here, she is trying to hang on to the hopes that changes will happen and she can be with you in every way. You are more " open ". I don't know. Lofty ideas sometimes don't address the reality of human heads, hearts, and all the experiences that make up each of us human beings. I feel for her mental health, only because of what you have sad of her reaction and how future arrangements will affect her.

The possibility arised suddenly and unexpectedly when neither of us expected it. There was theory before but nothing in pratice. She hadn't had time to accept the possibility that we would never be together until the possibility happened. After experiencing the distress and mourning, she understands it better and says she has grown into a stage of 'acceptance' for what it is, rather than what we would have wished it to be nearly a decade ago.

There is no such thing as equal footing between two different people. Every psychology is different. Every circumstance is different. There are crossroads where people intersect and benefit can be greater than harm. It's very possible I could commit suicide if she callously abandoned me too. Historically I've been more vulnerable of the two of us and abandonment can do almost anyone in if it hits them wrong. One of friends did exactly that when she felt abandoned by a guy. Those possibiltiies existing doesn't warrant not having relationships, it warrants having more responsible relationships, where both parties nourish the other's psychological state as best as they can. I studied the relationship in question, where the suicide took place, and very little ethics occurred from any party.

People can survive pain, they can survive change, but abandonment hits really hard. It won't happen on my watch. No selfish woman wanting me for herself 'as soon as possible' is going to change my mind. If a potential future partner couldn't comprehend this situation enough to consider the other woman in the picture with compassion, and not as a 'competitor to be eliminated asap.' l don't care to invest in women like that. I'll only invest in a woman who cares about more than herself, including the well being of other women.

I've asked her many times what she believes is best. She says she wants to make the best of a bad situation. I don't want to end our relationship either, but if I truly thought it would be best for her I would. If I were to end the relationship with no external reason, she wouldn't even get to make the best of a bad situation. She's not interested in the men in her culture and doesn't want to start more long distance relationships

There is a tiny chance circumstances could change, but not very likely, as I am ill (in multiple ways) and am unlikely to have the sustained income to immigrate her. She'd have to abandon her entire culture, her family would disapprove and possibly disown her while the only support she'd have is an ill guy in a foreign country.

In a stretch, I could try to research foreign atheist men for her, socialize with them and garden shrub out as many jerks as I could using clever intellectual tactics to expose their deviant plans. If I thought I'd found a decent guy, I could introduce the two. But it's a pretty weird idea for a girl you love and it's not a common social interaction for a man to seek other men for a woman. If I do find someone more accessible, it might be the last option I have left to help her.

Regardless, she's like family to me, and if a suitor screws her over by lying and misleading I'm gonna get really angry. In the meantime, I've tried to make sure she has enough objective information to be weary of those who would mislead her for sex.

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In this case, I agree. If she can't stand the idea of Chaku in another relationship then I'm led to believe that she will not be able to let go of the romantic/sexual elements when it's decided to remove them. She is essentially monogamous. What I see happening is the relationship ending completely. But, maybe I'm wrong and things will work out as planned? Feelings can change I suppose.

I'm curious, whatchagonnado, what is your take on this topic/thread, generally?

The outcome is always unpredictable, but we've based our entire relationship on honesty. She knows I've been attracted to women for longer than most would admit and have never kissed one in my life time. She fully understands my wiring is that of a a typical red blooded male, and even says she she supports me seeking casual sex if this is a goal I should choose. Neither of us like prostitution, but she would support that too.
She knows my instincts have been unsatisfied for most of my life and that the situation was a combination of voluntary factors, having less value as a
disabled man, and a tendency to isolate.
I believe her at this point. She knows that it has been torture as a man to live the life I have lived, and if you really love someone, you don't wish torture on them. If the right circumstance arises, I'lll remove the conflict between the primitive side of my brain and my higher brain. But if there is no right circumstance ethically, I will continue this current existence. In spite of psychological turmoil, I'm actually pretty happy with having followed my own path through life.
I've definitely thought on a higher level about these issues than most apes, so I have no shame, guilt, or negative feelings beyond the distress caused in the primitive sectors of my brain that gets hungry, horny, etc.

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Chaku, going to be blunt. You are coming across as her teacher and father. I would assume she is a woman and not a girl ? She seems like a safe and giving bet for you. You said she has no interest in the men in her culture. Have you used that to create, in part, a relationship where you can continue to feed that to your benefit ? I'm just seeing lots of flashing lights. Eight years is a long time for one person to be in limbo. You keep yourself open to sexual relationships, but she doesn't seem to want that with anyone else ? That is some heady power...yes, power...to have someone be so open ( and I use that word with a block of salt ) to you and your ' male needs '. Neither of you " like prostitution ", yet she would say fine if you decided on it ?? Do you like testing this woman ?

If she finds that one man in her culture that she likes and decides to have sex with him without totally abandoning you...it would be fine with you. And if not fine, you would graciously accept it ? Are you afraid of physical intimacy ? That is not a slam. Long distance situations which also contain immigration issues, cultural and religious concerns...that seems like a shield erected to allow for a shoulder to lean on, without any real danger of things developing in any healthy manner. Sure, relationships, whatever they are, can and do look many different ways. This tiny chance of anything changing and you don't believe you have an obligation to start the talk of your relationship with her being a friendship and only a friendship ? Remember, people will sometimes agree with things to try and keep something that may not be in their best interest. Let me ask you - does she talk about wanting a relationship with a man that contains sexual intimacy ?

Be her friend and not a mentor who says he would use clever tricks to use on other men who would have to go through him to get to her. If she is that unable to advocate for herself, then that is another clue that prolonging this situation has control issues all over it.

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Chaku, going to be blunt. You are coming across as her teacher and father. I would assume she is a woman and not a girl ? She seems like a safe and giving bet for you. You said she has no interest in the men in her culture. Have you used that to create, in part, a relationship where you can continue to feed that to your benefit ? I'm just seeing lots of flashing lights. Eight years is a long time for one person to be in limbo. You keep yourself open to sexual relationships, but she doesn't seem to want that with anyone else ? That is some heady power...yes, power...to have someone be so open ( and I use that word with a block of salt ) to you and your ' male needs '. Neither of you " like prostitution ", yet she would say fine if you decided on it ?? Do you like testing this woman ?

If she finds that one man in her culture that she likes and decides to have sex with him without totally abandoning you...it would be fine with you. And if not fine, you would graciously accept it ? Are you afraid of physical intimacy ? That is not a slam. Long distance situations which also contain immigration issues, cultural and religious concerns...that seems like a shield erected to allow for a shoulder to lean on, without any real danger of things developing in any healthy manner. Sure, relationships, whatever they are, can and do look many different ways. This tiny chance of anything changing and you don't believe you have an obligation to start the talk of your relationship with her being a friendship and only a friendship ? Remember, people will sometimes agree with things to try and keep something that may not be in their best interest. Let me ask you - does she talk about wanting a relationship with a man that contains sexual intimacy ?

Be her friend and not a mentor who says he would use clever tricks to use on other men who would have to go through him to get to her. If she is that unable to advocate for herself, then that is another clue that prolonging this situation has control issues all over it.

You're the one treating her like a child. I should 'initiate a talk to make our relationship only a friendship?' after she explicitly tells me she wants to maintain the relationship as is as long as possible? How many times should we have that have that disscussion before I accept her adult answers? What about her concerns? What about her autonomy? I'm supposed to control her destiny? I guess as a man need to step in and control her destiny by ending relationships for her, right? Helpless baby woman.

How many women have been abused by a man on this site? i've never done it. It's called having a conscience. I'm familiar with sexually experienced women getting 'red flags' from sexually inexperienced men and assuming they are 'abusers' who are the root problem. Ever think people might be projecting a bit of their bad relationship choices on someone else as a scapegoat?

She has social phobias, duh. She stays home a lot so it would be helpful to introduce more people into her social circle. Most people are liars. As someone with social phboias myself, I've been lied to, manipulated, hurt. So why not use knowledge gained by my interactions to do a background check on someone else prior to introducing them to her? I shouldn't check and see if someone is a liar before introducing them to a friend? How patriarchal. Next time i introduce someone, I'll make sure I don't bother to learn anything about their honesty. By the way, 'here's Ted Bundy, he's good looking! Figure it out for yourself, I have a lot of faith in you!'

You must be such an expert on the situation of strangers. Low status men are so evil, virgin men must be causing all of these relationship abuse everywhere! You make assumptions that I'm 'uncomfortable with having sex with her.' On what grounds? How many years have you known us and followed our sexual exploits? You're off your rocker.

Sometimes it's downright amazing how quickly women will make assumptions about low status men and their 'evil ways.' Utterly ridiculous how women blame inexperienced men for relationship problems. No ladies, if you're having relationships problems, it's the ones you're having sex with, not the ones you aren't. As soon as sexual inexperience is mentioned in a man, there's always some (he's the bad guy go get him!) responses comes out of the woodwork like clockwork. It's amazing. Talk about double standards.

If I was a real casavanoa and had even cheated on this girl and/or simply lied about my sexual experience, you'd never know a damned thing about her, about me, or anything else, and probably think I was a badass. Yet another example, honesty generally doesn't work guys. If you speak the truth, and you aren't a casanava, then everything wil be spun around in the blink of an eye that you're the devil incarnate before you know it. How do people fall for these kinds of shaming tactics?

In case you don't undersand, you're a very, very, very distant observer to a relationship you've had NO part in. You're not an expert in spite of what you might believe. Your negative assumptions are flagrantly incorrect, and likely colored by personal bias. It even reeks of emotional manipulation, to try to target the first potential emotional vulnerability introduced into this thread by a stranger and manipulate it and paint it as a 'deficiency.' Frankly, I'm just sad men allow women to shame them like this and let it damage their self esteem. I'm very blessed at this point in my life to genuinely not care about your 'expertise.'

Edited by chaku

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Ok. I stand up for men, when they need help, So here we go.

Chaku, going to be blunt. You are coming across as her teacher and father.

This is called a negative assumption about another person's intentions/

I would assume she is a woman and not a girl ? She seems like a safe and giving bet for you.

Negative Assumption about me. Even uses the word assume.

You said she has no interest in the men in her culture. Have you used that to create, in part, a relationship where you can continue to feed that to your benefit ?

A Negative assumption about my intentions. I met her knowing nothing of her culture and we fell in love before we even knew about the immigration difficulties.

I'm just seeing lots of flashing lights. Eight years is a long time for one person to be in limbo. You keep yourself open to sexual relationships, but she doesn't seem to want that with anyone else ? That is some heady power...yes, power...

You're assuming I have some kind of power, that makes her turn into a helpless child and is incapable of preventing her from ending a consensual relationship? So now, she can advocate for herself, but she totally can't. Cause she's a total weakling pathetic loser.

to have someone be so open ( and I use that word with a block of salt ) to you and your ' male needs '. Neither of you " like prostitution ", yet she would say fine if you decided on it ?? Do you like testing this woman ?

Another negative assumption. We've both discussed prostitution ethically pros and cons over the years. Thousands of words. It's a popular ethical discussion. We love those discussions.

If she finds that one man in her culture that she likes and decides to have sex with him without totally abandoning you...it would be fine with you. And if not fine, you would graciously accept it ?

I will adapt as needed. If I have to experience pain for her to be happy, I will.

Are you afraid of physical intimacy ? That is not a slam. Long distance situations which also contain immigration issues, cultural and religious concerns...that seems like a shield erected to allow for a shoulder to lean on, without any real danger of things developing in any healthy manner.

Afraid of intimacy? With YOU? YES. With her. Hell no. Healthy manner? How dare you define what is healthy for two consenting adults. YOU declare what is healthy for this woman now? What about her adult capability to make decisions on what is a healthy sexual relationship? You get to define healthy relationships. I guess since homosexuality is not a popular slam, online relationships are.

Sure, relationships, whatever they are, can and do look many different ways. This tiny chance of anything changing and you don't believe you have an obligation to start the talk of your relationship with her being a friendship and only a friendship ?

How many times do people have to have these talks? I've had at it at least 15 times. OF course, as an adult she need to make her OWN decisions. You are all over the map. First she's a child, then I control, then I need to 'take' control and tell her to begin a friendship.

Remember, people will sometimes agree with things to try and keep something that may not be in their best interest. Let me ask you - does she talk about wanting a relationship with a man that contains sexual intimacy ?

What the hell? Of course, we are sexually intimate every day. Are you insane? What business is that of yours?

Be her friend and not a mentor who says he would use clever tricks to use on other men who would have to go through him to get to her. If she is that unable to advocate for herself, then that is another clue that prolonging this situation has control issues all over it.

This is an incredibly innaccurate statement and utterly hypocritical. I have been lied to and manipulated. It can happen to anyone. Everyone can use friends who offer extra perspectives in their lives. It is NOT controlling behavior. When people who aren't friends, and know nothing about each other start offering 'advocacy' of changing behavior with NO knowledge or context of the people inside the relationship, that IS a control issue. Re read exactly what you said to me. All you did was 'advocate' and mentor what was 'healthy, what was likely wrong with our relationship' with uniformly negative outlooks. Not as a friend. Not even as an informed bystander. There wasn't a single positive assumption made about me, and every line was about 'advocating me changing my behaviors' to suit your ignorant whims.

You seem to have have HUGE control issues. I won't say that unless I have evidence. It's likely you also have a really negatively attitude towards sexually inexperienced men. You waited for the first sign of a potential vulnerability to lay out a wash of horrifically innaccurate negativity while attempting to tell me the healthy ways of living my life.

Guys, if a woman makes horrifically uniform negative assumptions about you whenever you talk about your sexual inexperience, please, just keep walking. I know women do this frequently, but you're worth so much more than this. I'm calling this out so you can keep your heads up. If this is what passes for 'supporting' depressed men these days. Just leave. It ain't worth it. Find beautiful people like my friend who appreciate your unique personality and would give you a chance to get known, for who you really are, on the inside rather than your social status, your sexual experience, your disabilities, or whatever. If you find 'All knowing women' with no knowledge about you, your personal circumstance, are mentoring you and labeling you with a bunch of terrible qualities about you? This has been a sign of very bad things in my life. You don't have to put up with it.

Edited by chaku

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I like monogamy, at least in serious relationships, because I do not like sharing. For me, lack of satisfaction usually means either something has to be worked on or I am supposed to "go." I have nothing against polyamory, I just know better than to try it...and turn into a hurt, evil, person! Some people never feel that way with more than one lover and all the power to them, I don't judge people's lifestyle choices.

Thanks for contributing. As the poll suggests, people are clearly more comfortable with monogamy and for the very reasons that you mention. What is common is the view that people belong to perhaps their family and one other person. That one other person is expected to satisfy most of our wants/needs for the rest of our lives and if they don't, there is something wrong.

IMO, a lack of satisfaction doesn't necessarily mean that something is wrong with the relationship or that it's time to bail. I mean, it could be the case if there is a safety issue. But I think that it could instead mean that we want to have others in our lives as well, in a more intimate way, but we never really have the option to do so as it is seen as unacceptable.

I suppose anything is possible and try to keep an open mind. I know another topic that came up here was the fluidity of relationships and how not all relationships are meant to last a lifetime. I definitely agree with this and while there is something comforting about the idea of "forever", know that most relationships in my life will probably run their course before forever is up. (Emphasis on probably. I have no idea.) Most of the time, for me, when something is severely lacking and is beyond help, another lover wouldn't necessarily help... I am just no longer meant to be with that person. Another lover might add good sex or mental stimulation, but my underlying problems with the original lover still exist, so why keep them around if things aren't working? I can see that being the case maybe for lesser problems where the relationship still has a chance.

It's all very individual, IMO. I am not saying humans are inherently monogamous, only that we know best what problems in our relationships mean and signal to us. It's a very interesting topic.

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Well, for me, monogamy is a natural expression of some of my strongest personality traits. I was raised with the idea that monogamy is an ideal, but even if I hadn't been I think I would naturally tend towards monogamy anyway.

My personality has very high tendencies towards very intense, nearly obsessive loyalty and faithfulness. Emotionally, I am not capable of really trusting more than one person at a time. I am not capable of healthy physical intimacy with someone I cannot invest that trust in. When I have attempted casual 'intimacy' in the past, I have ended up being a harmless, far less violent version of 'Fatal Attraction.'

So, for me, monogamy is more of a natural expression of who I am. I'm also very lucky to have found a spouse who doesn't mind being the object of my occasional obsession.

I'm happy you found someone that appreciates your traits.

Trust is important to me as well but perhaps in a different way than exclusivity.

Interesting topic..I selected "monogamous" (although at this point in time I would consider myself "none-ogamous" :( ).

I once had a long distance relationship with a woman who had tried polyamory a few times. We had some interesting discussions about it. Strangely enough, she was monogamous (as was I, and have always been) during our brief time together (even though we were 2500 miles apart). We were able to see each other in person quite a few times considering the distance. My argument against polyamory is simply that it is hard enough to establish deep, lasting trust with one person, let alone multiple partners. And regardless of the equanimity that is apparent in a polyamorous arrangement, it is my belief that someone is always good ng to feel "unequal". I'm not judging those who choose such an arrangement, to each their own. Just stating my opinion.

As for the argument that polyamory/polygamy is the natural instinct of human beings, maybe it is. In primitive society, it made sense to pair with multiple partners, to ensure survival of the species in a harsh world where life expectancy was understandably low. Shifting to modern times, this natural instinct becomes unnecessary. Look at it this way: it is also " natural" to defecate in our pants and to never brush our teeth, but we have learned to do the "unnatural" until it has supplanted nature's instinct so as to become "natural". The same argument could be made of monogamy supplanting (for the most part) polygamy.

The unequal bit would stem from feelings of jealousy. If each relationship is defined on it's own terms and boundaries set ahead of time then jealousy should not be a big issue. The trust would be about following through with what was agreed on.

Well, technically, it would not be natural to defecate in pants. Brushing teeth has come about because we have realized that it is healthy. I think you could have a point in that polyamory is not as necessary as it might have been in the past but it doesn't mean that there is more to be gained from monogamy. Certainly, we see examples where monogamy fails all of the time. People go on with the expectation of 'until death do us part' (and no one else) and then conveniently "forget" about it. Parting ways in that fashion often leaves at least one person devastated, regretful, and/or resentful. Polyamorous relationships can fail too, of course, but there's no such extreme expectation that has to be attached. I don't think monogamy has supplanted anything really but maybe somehow the awareness that one could choose differently. Having a relationship of any kind (that isn't manipulative or abusive) could be said to provide health benefits so I'm not sold on the monogamy monopoly theory as it relates to that.

Well, these are all just opinions, after all..YMMV

I would venture to guess that monogamy is the dominant relationship paradigm in society today. I strongly suspect that it wasn't 80,000 years ago. So in that respect, I do think it (monogamy) has supplanted (for the most part) polyamory/polygamy as the preferred relationship model. Just my opinion.

As far as depression is concerned and whether one's choice of relationship type has any impact, I would guess that it probably doesn't make any difference, as far as lessening depression's adverse effects on an individual. I would even suggest that having multiple partners simultaneously could potentially exacerbate one's depression because of the jealousy/inequity factor lurking in the background. Speaking for myself, being in a relationship never made depression any less of a problem. Maybe being with someone helps others, and maybe having multiple partners helps still others, in terms of coping with mental illness. Again, this is all just speculation and opinion.

Edited by LonelyHiker

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Chaku, I mentioned your inexperience, not as a negative, but to try and see where some of your difficulties are coming from. You are projecting your pain, as I wasn't patrolling sexually inexperienced men. You mentioned something and only then did I wonder how that something might play a part in how you navigate relationships. Also, I never asked if you two were sexually intimate. You are the one who said there was a tiny chance of things changing. I was questioning your particular long distance situation, not Long Distance Relationships. I was reading the words you chose to type. I said in " any healthy manner ". Again, your words lead me, a person who is able to read and able to do a bit with that reading, see you mention someone's great distress and how certain things would " **** her ". Believe it or not, that will cause some to react. Lots of talk about your potential sexual needs and how you might go about them if it was meant to be. No one can possibly know all about a person, but dots can be connected, or at least laid on a table. All this feels like little traps laid. Now I must go be sad that we will never be intimate.

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