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Happy People Are Better And Superior


MattMVS7

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There is one more thing I would like to add to my list of arguments in my previous post which are all arguments for the user gandolfication as well as others to debate:

21.) It's not life itself that I view as inferior--it is these concepts of life that I view as inferior such as there being no God or heaven for all our suffering as well as the concept that this is a life of suffering and of acceptance of our suffering and that we cannot be superior god-like beings who can be superior to this concept by exterminating it from existence. Me calling these concepts of life inferior and such would bring me great pleasure (feelings of empowerment) if I had my ability to experience pleasure right now. Also, I am not someone who looks outside of myself and finds greater things in life than my own pleasure. For example, I do not look at the universe as something far more amazing than my own pleasure and that I am insignificant in this universe. I instead embrace the universe and make myself more great (more significant) in increasing my pleasure. So this is why I will not let go and accept my loss of pleasure and instead open up to other things in life because I am a megalomaniac who seeks to be someone powerful and great in life through my empowered feelings of pleasure and such.

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All right, I'll go at least one more round here.

I just want to preface by saying that although I like to debate, I am mainly interested in engaging in productive exercises toward learning, finding truth and improving/recovering and being the best, healthiest version of myself that I can be - not in winning an argument for its own sake.

You are right, I do wish to debate about this. So here are some other things for you to debate against as well. Some of these things might be the exact same things I have already said, but just worded differently (I'm not sure). But go ahead and read through them all anyway and debate against them:

1.) You said that expressing yourself is perhaps better than the feelings themselves that are not there due to depression or anhedonia. In other words, if you express that you love someone, but don't have love, that would make you a great person. (or a liar or hypocrite or someone aspiring to love I suppose). But based on my arguments, that is still nothing compared to these feelings themselves and expressing yourself is something a highly intelligent and well-designed robot in the future can accomplish. Also, what I mean by being a better person if you had these feelings is that these feelings are what make you the better person than if you were someone without these feelings and also that these feelings make you better than everyone else who either don't have them or have little to none of them.
You keep saying this ("that these feelings are what make you the better person than if you were someone without these feelings"), but I don't see any reason or support for it. You've just assumed and asserted it. I could just as easily assert that self-awareness or abstract reasoning or tactile feeling or any number of other things is what is most valuable and salient in making us human and imbuing us with value. All of these seem arbitrary to me in a purely natural world, where, by definition we are all just matter and motion, dust and atoms banging around in a random way. If that's what you want to believe, go for it, but I don't want to pretend that I see any rational basis or warrant for it.
2.) Robots are fine living a life without pleasure because that's what they are--emotionally insensitive functioning machines that are inferior. But I, on the other hand, am an emotionally sensitive human being who is not fine living a life without pleasure and will never be fine with such a thing because, again, I am a sensitive human being and will forever remain a sensitive human being in terms of my pleasure. (So you don't feel pleasure, but you remain emotionally sensitive? Doesn't that conflict a little? I mean, if you have emotional sensitivity, I realize that most of it may be gradations of pain, but that would necessarily entail some pleasure on a continuum, even if minimal, right?). For me to be fine with and accept this as a way of life would truly make me the inferior robot (why?) and anyone else to be fine with and accept that they might never recover would truly be inferior robots as well. No. They would be struggling human beings with a condition that apparently still allowed them some emotional capacity even if pleasure was extraordinarily blunted - that is still 'superior' (in the context you're using this term) if the relevant measurement is the ability to have emotional capacity. The 'less-than-robot' thing just isn't so. I would never accept such a thing anyway for all my reasons stated in my writing. I am at least one step towards being a superior human being despite my depression and severe chronic anhedonia for having not accepting this as a way of life and trying to gain my pleasure back. Well, in resisting, or not accepting what actually is, what you're actually doing is causing yourself additional pain or suffering (suffering is often defined as pain + non-acceptance). Acceptance doesn't have to be permanent, and it also - surprisingly - does not negate taking action and wanting to change for the better. For example, if I put my hand in a bucket of ice water, it will begin to hurt. Now, if I sit there and resist and bemoan my situation, neuroscience shows conclusively, that I will actually experience more pain than if I sit there and think and say things like, 'this will pass' 'I can accept this' 'this is uncomfortable, but I've handled painful and uncomfortable things in the past.' In fact, the experiments show if I say the latter - and I'm loosely paraphrasing acceptance affirmations and the like - I will be able to keep my hand in the painful ice water bucket for about twice as long. So this is plain experimental science which confirms the wisdom traditions. This is the kind of supporting evidence that I am pointing out that most of your assertions lack, and it's why, while some are mildly interesting, I'm not taking them too seriously, even though I truly do empathize with you greatly regarding the pain of depression and anhedonia.
Also, Robots can be distinguished by more than lack of emotion. They are interesting in providing a nice point of comparison for us to inquire what makes us human, but I don't think it can be reduced merely to emotion. I think animals probably feel a form of emotions very like our own that neuroscience will continue to discovery, but that won't make them quite human either. Lack of true self awareness, creative force, and even certain types of abstract reasoning also come to mind - and I know there are others, but I'm not a robotics expert right now. As humans, we may be many things, but one dimensional and having all our value based on one of these domains surely is not among them.
3.) Life is not about acceptance of living an entire life with depression or anhedonia that never recovers. It is about completely overcoming our suffering of depression and anhedonia. Who says? Why should I not consider this completely aribtrary and without rational or other support to warrant or justify it? The fact that we would like it to be this way certainly doesn't make it so. If it did, then the same line of reasoning would apply equally and I could say that there is no possibility of any meaning or purpose because life is about perfection without any pain, and nothing short will suffice, and thus everyone should terminate their life immediately. Why is that less persuasive? I hope you see the point of the arbitrariness there. It is also about being superior to acceptance itself and to this inferior life as well as its inferior pointless hardships by living a nice happy life and also by having the attitude of a megalomaniac psychopath who wishes to have power and control in their lives only in the sense of their lives not being bound by any inferior problems. Ok, that's mildly scary, and good luck with that one, but fine, I can appreciate it actually. By that standard though, you're just going to have to accept a constant, unceasing fighting against the inevitable. Sounds like misery compounded to me, besides that it is a level of futility that Sisyphus could only have dreamed of. Again, that is totally arbitrary - that is to say, you have posited an assertion with no supporting reasons to justify it, making it very weak and hard to take seriously. This is one of the reasons why the lives of those who are happy and struggle-free (there is no such person, but okay...) are better lives because these happy people have power and control in their lives, can live life basically however they want, and their lives are not bound by any inferior problems which makes them superior to major problems in life as well as acceptance since they don't have to accept any major problems in life while the rest of us do. These happy people dominate over this inferior life of suffering since they don't have to go through any of it. This is simplistic in the extreme. Countless studies show that people who experience trauma and hardship in their youths go on to become better leaders, and stronger individuals and even along some domains, 'happier.' Just a simple example to show this simplistic 'Superman' theory redux is not correct. I don't think anyone questions that if you have a lot of money, good family, friends, freedom, like your job, don't have depression, are healthy, etc., yep, you're gonna be happier - that's sort of a basic rough hewn definition of happiness (albeit a general one that is constantly upended by exceptions of people who find ways to be happy DESPITE their great suffering and misfortune). Besides, anyone who has lived long enough and thought very far past their naval, realizes that we all die, and so whatever control we think we might have is illusory. Those with power, fame and wealth and who love their work are not always any happier (we need only look as far back as Phillip Hoffman and Robin Williams to be reminded of this). If you want to read or listen to a good book on happiness that will give you a different take, I recommend http://www.amazon.com/The-How-Happiness-Approach-Getting/dp/0143114956
It's a positive psychology book, has plenty of social science, and shows the large components of ordinary happiness that are genetic, but also based on action and most importantly I think, expectations. Not, control, superiority, living however you want or having an absence of problems.
4.) All our suffering is for nothing. And you know this how? We may have helped others suffering through our own suffering which gives the illusion that our own suffering did have a useful purpose and such, but our own suffering for ourselves is truly pointless because there are innocent people with nice happy lives who help others suffering and give great advice. In other words, we can achieve great things in life and help others through pure happiness alone and with a life free of struggles just as good as (and even better) than those people who suffer. I'm also an atheist and believe that there is no heaven for all our suffering and no hell to put all our suffering on wicked people with nice happy lives which is another thing that makes our own suffering even more pointless and makes those who are wicked with nice happy lives even more great. I don't believe there is any such thing as this 'nice happy life' you fantasize about. At all. To live, is to have problems and to experience pain, disappointment, regret, fear, worry, etc. And also to experience plenty of good things. The mix and the balance changes for sure, but I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
Yah, I believe a firm belief that one can somehow know there is not and cannot be any higher power to provide some ultimate order, meaning, purpose and redemption does make nihilism much more likely and in some sense, unavoidable (many atheists and agnostics and people on this site would disagree with me). But many of the great thinkers through history - including some of the great atheist thinkers like Nietzsche Camus, Tolstoy, etc. did realize that if this was all there was, then Bill Maher is right - 'life is a surling, sucking eddy of despair. Then you die.' And this would be the case for ALL people regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of happiness and lack of pleasure. Not only that, I think there is a good case to be made then for those who opt for suicide (even though I have written at some length in another post in the DF why I think there are reasons to live and not succumb despite this). If your argument is: a) life is painful; b) I don't see and we can't be sure there is anything to redeem it; so c) it is hopeless and meaningless and even d) there's no reason to keep on living - then we can have a debate, because I at least think that has internal consistency. I just don't share the major premise, though it's one I've obsessed and tortured over quite a bit.
5.) But some forms of struggle do have an advantage such as training in the military, struggling through rigorous training, and having gained something after all of this which would be the "no pain, no gain" mentality. But there are forms of struggle in this life that are truly pointless. One of these struggles would be for those people who suffer from depression and anhedonia (especially for those people who can't gain any betterment from their suffering and are doomed to a life of suffering). Unlike the gains we would obtain which are gains that can only be achieved through hard training in the military, the gains we obtain from suffering from depression and anhedonia which are gains that are used in helping others who suffer from these things and giving advice as well as other things, these are gains that an innocent person with a nice happy life can achieve (as I've just stated in the paragraph above).
Except as I've mentioned above, it is not accurate to say that depression and suffering has no benefit. They do, and the research, anecdotes and in this case, fairly common knowledge are too mountainous to recount here. See above regarding the 3-4 books I mentioned - they're all great and speak powerfully to this, and there are many others.
6.) An innocent person suffering from cancer in a hospital bed might think that their suffering had a benefit because they got to meet many people who cared for him/her and such and because he/she gave inspiring messages to others who suffer. But an innocent and caring person with a nice happy life with no suffering (of which are there are no such people) can achieve the exact same things (and even better) and can achieve many other great things in life that this innocent person suffering from cancer couldn't which would make this happy person's life far better and would make this other person's suffering truly pointless. And you're not right. Someone who has had an easier life cannot enter in to the same kind of particular empathy as one who has experienced a specific kind of pain. Someone who has never experienced depression, cannot--try as they might--understand and care in the same way as those friends I have who have experienced it. You know this, right? Even if that was the only benefit (and I don't for a second suggest it is), that would be quite a lot.
7.) Some scientists and intelligent people might say that feelings of love and pleasure are nothing more than chemical processes in the brain, that it is nothing more than something used for our survival, and that it is nothing special for these very reasons stated. But there is a big difference between how nonspecial and ungreat love and pleasure are in terms of science and how special and great they are to us based on our own personal experience of these emotions. Well, if everything is just chemical reactions, you are going to have a tough case to make as far as any ultimate import of pleasure. It's just one more illusion in the Matrix. So this is why these feelings are so special to me and are the greatest things in my life simply because they feel like the most special and greatest things ever experienced. I don't really even know what 'special' could mean in a universe composed purely of random matter and motion. Stuff just happens. There's no meaning or sense of complaining about anything. Talking about something being 'special' or 'important' or 'morally significant' as in 'better' 'superior' and the rest are not merely semantically imprecise - they are very literally irrational. I want to add here, that I do believe in the speacialness of life, experience, and especially love. And that makes rational sense in my world view because it allows for the transcendent. Since these emotions feel like the most special and greatest things to me in life, that is what makes them the most special and greatest things in life. The feelings of love and pleasure that others have also has the same value as your own and makes their feelings of love and pleasure the most special and greatest things in life as well. But as for anything else in life besides feelings of love and pleasure that is either unable to serve you or others love and pleasure (such as due to depression or anhedonia) or serves no purpose in regaining your lost love and pleasure, these things have no value. In other words, if you have anhedonia and you lived your life as nothing more than a "job" not doing things to try and bring you or others love and pleasure and not caring to regain your lost love and pleasure, then that is a life of no value and your life would be worthless. Maybe - if I truly had NO desire even to experience joy and pleasure and happiness - but I'm not sure there ever has been such a person. Countless times and ways, you've acknowledged your own desire to experience these things - and I'm glad for that. Regarding depression, as bad as it is, and as much as it suffuses our 'normal' emotional functioning (whatever normal (homoclite) is), it is not at all inconsistent with feeling, expressing, giving and experiencing love - thank heaven and earth.
8.) I bet people such as your family would feel very sorry for you more than they would being happy for you if you were suffering from cancer in a hospital bed or any other such type of suffering. But based on my writing, losing your pleasure would be even much worse than that since it is basically the greatest thing in your life. "Since it [pleasure] is basically the greatest thing in life" I'm not saying that pleasure isn't great or important, or really nice, etc, etc., but your assertion that it is the be all end all greatest thin in life still lacks support. You haven't established this or any reason for it. So it truly would make no sense if these people felt happy towards you despite your loss of pleasure and yet felt very sad and depressed for you if you were going through any other type of suffering. Of course, these people deserve to be happy. I am just simply pointing out here that it wouldn't make any sense for them to be happy towards you despite your loss of pleasure. You're right, that would not make sense, but....so? I am also pointing out just how bad of an experience this is for me and that I would prefer any other type of suffering over this. Oh yes, I certainly understand and empathize with this. Like I said above, I would never wish even depression on my worst enemy, let alone whatever it must feel like to have anhedonia. I have been diagnosed with major depressive disorder, bi-polar and cyclothemia (which oddly seemed the worst since per my then-psychiatrist, there wasn't really anything you could do for it). The terms and names seem silly (except that possibly they are useful to some for treatment). So far they have been nearly completely resistant to treatment and I have wanted my life to end for about 8 years consistently. I do not get nearly the same pleasure out of daily activities, I lack real hope, and generally, life is exquisitely painful. Many, many others on this site and in the world experience this too. Anyhow, all of this to say, of course you prefer any other type of life (or, if you're like me and so many others, even at times, death, to this uber painful way of living). Still in all, this is mostly about emotion and feeling. It does not actually remove purpose or goodness or greatness or the benefit for growing through this paint, etc. from my life.
9) Now another reason why megalomaniacs and people with mania are superior is because they can increase their self-worth and empowerment (their pleasure) to an extreme psychotic level which, metaphorically speaking, makes their value and worth enhanced to a god-like level. I hope you realize how silly this sounds. I've had mania. Euphoria is nice (it is one reason those with depression are do disproportionately susceptible to drug abuse and addiction). It is also tragically destructive. Megalomaniacs who want power and control in their lives and to not accept any problem in life (again, this is a fiction) , their attitude here is not compatible with this life (universe) as it is a life that forces its problems upon us and to live with those problems. But their attitude would be compatible with a superior god-like life (universe) of no suffering and this is what, in a sense, makes their attitude of this superior god-like universe and makes them superior god-like beings from that universe. Nah, not really. This is a comic book version of the real complexity and nuance of life. But those who do accept problems in life, have humility, and don't want power and control in their lives--these would be inferior beings of this inferior universe only providing that they have less pleasure in life because pleasure is really the only thing here that determines your value, worth, and status as a human being. I think you are spending too much time up in your own head, which a lot of us (myself included) do.
I gotta stop here. Best,
-g
Megalomaniacs would be superior god-like beings from another universe (a superior god-like universe) that is the opposite of this inferior universe of being powerless in overcoming certain suffering and just having to accept problems in life and make the best of our lives anyway. This superior god-like universe is a universe where we live lives of perfection, immortality, and empowerment over suffering knowing that we are superior god-like beings who are superior to suffering because we don't have to accept or have any of it. Megalomaniacs have the personality trait of this superior god-like universe since they don't accept problems in life and wish to be superior to them while the rest of us who accept suffering as a way of life have the personality trait of this inferior universe of pointless suffering. Again, I am metaphorically speaking when saying all of this and don't actually mean that there are superior god-like beings or that there is another universe of no suffering because I am an atheist, believe in scientific facts, and don't believe in such superstition. But atheists who accept that there is no God or an afterlife that will grant them this superior god-like status, these people are inferior. At least I hate my own atheism, don't accept it, and wish to have the personality trait of a superior god-like being myself in order to make myself superior to this inferior universe of suffering.
Megalomaniacs are superior because they wish to change things in their life and are not pathetic punching bags that just sit there and accept punches (problems) that this life gives to them. They wish to live the way they want and wish to be superior to reality and its problems which is what makes these megalomaniacs superior. People with humility and acceptance are inferior because they allow their lives to be bound by inferior problems, tell others to just accept their problems, and allow themselves to be of a lower status in life, whereas megalomaniacs are superior because they are the opposite. Actually, as I will explain later on in my writing, accepting any problem in life besides your loss of pleasure and telling others to accept these types of problems does not make you inferior. But if you accept a lifelong depression or anhedonia that never gets better or fully recovers as well as tell others to just accept a lifelong depression or anhedonia, that would make you utterly inferior. This would also include accepting atheism in which you would be accepting a denied afterlife of eternal pleasure. However, as I stated before, pleasure is what really defines your status as a human being. So if you did have all the pleasure in the world and accepted these things in life, then that would give you a superior status anyway.
Megalomaniacs and people with mania would be superior to people with humility and acceptance who accept depression/anhedonia and make the best of it. These megalomaniacs and people with mania would be superior due to their psychotically enhanced pleasure and for not accepting reality and choosing to increase their level of pleasure to a psychotically enhanced level while the rest of us with not as much pleasure or have little to no pleasure due to depression and anhedonia are inferior.
10.) Also, since I am a hedonist and pleasure is the greatest thing in life to me, since our minds, bodies, and this universe are not designed to make us happy and instead gives us depression, anhedonia, and many other types of suffering, this is another thing that makes our design and this universe inferior to me. I am an atheist who is not even allowed to have pleasure in this one and only life which is what makes this life inferior and worthless to me. Without my ability to experience pleasure, then there is absolutely nothing for me in this one and only life which is why I would rather of been someone who believed in a God and an afterlife of eternal joy because that would give me a sense of hope and a "real" life to look forward to (even though that life doesn't exist) rather than this life which is now worthless since I have no pleasure. Without pleasure, then this life is nothing more than a mockery of me--giving me beautiful and great things to enjoy in this life and I can't experience any amount of pleasure whatsoever from any of these things. My life is now just being wasted away at this point since pleasure is the only greatest thing to me in life and anything else I do in life is nothing more than the equivalent of a robot doing mechanical task in life whether they be great things in life or helping others.
Our minds and bodies are just designed for survival and nothing more. We are just designed to survive and to just forever remain dead in the end. The fact that we are not designed to be superior immortal god-like beings who have complete control over reality and suffering in living an eternal life of joy, this is what makes our design utterly inferior.
11.) A true emotionally sensitive human being is someone who has both immense value towards his/her own feelings of love and pleasure and those feelings of others. I mentioned earlier in my writing that I am at least one step towards being an emotionally sensitive human being for not accepting my loss of pleasure and trying to regain it. The fact that I also value the feelings of others makes me two steps towards being an emotionally sensitive human being despite my depression and severe chronic anhedonia. So in order to be truly defined as "emotionally sensitive," you would have to have both of these personality traits I just mentioned. If you just have one or the other, then you would only earn half that title and that would make you a lesser person as opposed to having the full title. But despite the fact that Hitler does not have that title at all, he is still the better person for having pleasure in his life anyway and nothing can take away from that greatness other than his own loss of pleasure.
12.) If you have the ability to fully recover from depression and anhedonia, then that would deem you as the "Ultimate Life Form" in this universe since you would have the ability to recover the only greatest thing in life which is your pleasure. But if you can't recover, then that would make you and your brain a "Worthless Creation" and you should end your worthless life because you would be delusional in somehow thinking you would be making the best of your life anyway and living a fulfilling life without pleasure. You can choose to live anyway, but you would just be a biological robot not being able to "appreciate anything" or "make the best of life" or "live a fulfilling life" because those things in quotes can only come from pleasure alone and don't come from nothing but biological robotic functioning. I ask of you, can a robot achieve those things quoted? I don't think so! And it wouldn't matter anyway if you could because, again, you would still be nothing but a biological robot with a worthless life.
13.) I am a person who, without pleasure, finds no value in living just for the sake of living and in just doing things in life as a mission or a job in this life. I am neither a person who solely values intelligence and the pursuit of knowledge in life over the pursuit of happiness. I would have to agree and say that my intelligence is completely useless for me and has only brought me depression and anhedonia as well as atheism in making my life that more pointless and worthless. My intelligence of scientific facts is what lead me to atheism. I am not interested and don't care about science or reality itself for that matter. I just want to live a happy life with the delusional fantasy belief of there being a God and a heaven for my worthless life without pleasure here on Earth. I wanted to live in a happy fantasy world separate from reality through composing and other things. There is a phrase that states "Ignorance is bliss." In other words, I would of rather been someone who is happy and very dumb who believes in superstition (even a dumb happy wild animal that is carefree in life). Some scientists might tell me that, despite my inability to feel love and pleasure, I am an amazing creation that has come about through evolution and that my intelligence can be used for great things in life. Although a scientist would appreciate this, I , once again, am not interested and don't care about science and evolution, my design, or who I am as a person. I would still be nothing more than the equivalent of a highly intelligent and well-designed biological robot from the future that has no ability to love or feel pleasure even if I did use my intelligence to do great things in life and help others as well as having a great personality in life. Not to mention, I have no help or advice I can even think of that I can give to others through my intelligence anyway. The only thing I can think of and is something I truly believe would be everything I'm saying here in my writing. I do not believe in anything else such as making the best of your life anyway if you could never recover your ability to experience pleasure because, according to what I'm saying here in my writing and what I believe, your life would be truly worthless if you could never recover.
I only care about my feelings of love and pleasure because they are the most precious things to me and, unlike the average intelligent person who pursues knowledge and such over happiness through science and other things, I am someone who completely pursues my happiness and love through composing and in expressing these feelings I value so much through composing.
But there is one thing of great value that my intelligence has which would be everything I'm saying here in my writing. I have used my intelligence in discovering the truth of this life which is that pleasure and love are the greatest things and if you ever lose these things and can never recover them, then you are truly an inferior robot who should end his/her worthless life. Now that I have no love or pleasure, then there is nothing left for me in this life but to now call this one and only life inferior and to reveal this cold hard truth in my writing.
14.) Now my dream in life was to be a composer and my only reason for being a composer was to express and experience my feelings of pleasure that I valued so much because music, to me, is all about emotions. But now that I am emotionally numb and depressed, there is nothing for me to express or experience and there is no longer a reason for me to become a composer. I realize that there are composers who put all their suffering into making music in helping others and such, but this is not who I am at all and choosing to express my suffering through composing would only make me feel worse. I wish to express feelings of pleasure alone by creating music that has a beautiful and mystical fantasy feel which would be music that expresses mystical forests and other things.
Even if I were a composer who composed songs that have somber feels to them in helping other people who are suffering, I can compose music that is just as powerful and compelling in helping others and such (and even better) through pure pleasure alone (the pleasure in helping others and through other forms of pleasure). I can compose any song with any feel to it through pure pleasure alone and these songs can be just as good (and even better) than if I suffered negative emotions and used my suffering in composing music. This is another reason why suffering from depression and anhedonia is pointless and has no greater benefit than if you were a happy person. Therefore, living a life of suffering that never gets any better or never fully recovers in inspiring and helping others who suffer is even more pointless because you can be just as helpful and inspiring (and even more) if you fully recovered from your suffering and chose to be helpful and inspiring through your recovery. Again, you can even be just as inspiring and helpful (and even more) having not suffered in the first place and just being inspiring and helpful to those who suffer out of the kindness of your own heart despite the fact that you are living a nice happy life yourself.
15.) Now I was able to channel my feelings of pleasure in creating great music. But now that my pleasure is gone, I cannot create any such piece of music whatsoever and there is no reason to become a composer anyway since I have no feelings of pleasure to express. When I had feelings of pleasure in the beginning, I was able to dedicate all my time all day everyday (many hours a day) in learning to compose and such. But now that I have no pleasure, I have completely given up and no longer dedicate any amount of time whatsoever in composing.
A true composer who only values and expresses their feelings of pleasure through composing (such as myself) would realize that there is no longer any point in composing without pleasure and would just give up composing completely because they would now be emotionless robots in a world that absolutely calls for our experience of love and pleasure (which would be the emotional world of music and composing). If I or any other true hedonist composer such as myself were to have any other disability besides depression and anhedonia instead such as being in a wheelchair or any other mental or physical disability, then such a true composer would never give up in this situation since he/she still has the most important thing about him/her as an emotionally sensitive hedonist composer (which would be his/her pleasure). I, myself, would never give up on composing and even all other things in life in this situation.
But if such a composer were to lose his/her pleasure either due to depression or anhedonia, then that would be the time I and other such composers like me should give up composing completely only until our pleasure fully recovers. Although I could compose purely for the sake of other people's pleasure instead, my only goal in becoming a composer was to express my own feelings of pleasure and give others pleasure only through my own pleasure. Once again, I still value others and their pleasure. It's just that composing is a very personal thing for me and any music I compose comes from my own personal pleasure. Composing is not something in which I abandon my own personal means of composing (which would be channeling my own feelings of pleasure) and instead just composes for the sake of other people's pleasure and composes just as a "job" like a robot.
Although I could compose without my feelings of pleasure and instead compose using only my knowledge of music theory, through my thinking alone, and through just playing around on the keyboard, music and composing is a very emotional thing to me and I will not compose like a robot without emotions. Since music and composing must absolutely be a pleasurable emotional human experience for me and I am not even allowed to have this experience at all (since I have severe chronic anhedonia that is there all the time 24/7), this is why I am giving up being a composer. To me, there is no value whatsoever in pursuing my dream of being a composer anyway because that is something "robotic" that only an inferior biological robot would do. I am instead doing the human thing by giving up my dream for now and instead trying to gain back my pleasure through therapies and medication.
Only when my pleasure is back will I then go back to being a composer because I absolutely refuse to be the inferior biological robot in the world of music and composing because my only goal in composing is to use my pleasure and pleasure alone to make music and to feel pleasure when listening to music I like. Therefore, me choosing to become a composer and to listen to music I like despite my anhedonia and depression only serves to make me feel much worse knowing that I cannot experience pleasure from these things at all.
But if I can never regain my full pleasure, then I will never go back to being a composer. I cannot gain back some or even most of my pleasure in order for me to go back to being a composer. I must regain my full pleasure in order for that to happen because I will not be the inferior biological robot to any degree whatsoever in the world of music and composing (even if it is just a little bit).
16.) My sole dream was to, metaphorically speaking, be a superior god-like being in the world of music and composing. That status would be given to someone who is able to fully experience pleasure from music and in composing as well as being able to experience pleasure from these things at a manic level. In other words, my dream was to express my god-like feelings of mania (empowerment) and create music that has an empowered god-like mystical feel to it as an expression of my superior god-like empowered status as a human being and as a composer. But also because I just wish to express my feelings of pleasure in general which would be enhanced to a manic level due to my immense value and overly emotional sensitive personality towards feelings of love and pleasure.
17.) Some people embrace their inner nothingness and call that something great and that it makes them a better person (perhaps a superior god-like being like how I would embrace my feelings of pleasure and call myself a metaphorically spoken superior god-like being as well). But nothingness is not a "power" at all to embrace. It is a lack of power that only serves to make you less of a person (not a superior god-like being or even a human being for that matter). You are nothing but a biological robot if you had inner nothingness regardless of how much you embrace it and use it for great things in life as well as helping others. A superior god-like being would be someone who has full pleasure in life that is even enhanced to manic levels. People who embrace despair and inner nothingness in the world of goth might call themselves "gods of darkness." But, once again, a god of darkness would feel pleasure from dark gothic things--not depression or nothingness in their lives to any degree that only serves to make these people inferior and not gods.
But as for other negative emotions such as rage or sadness that these people might embrace, although having these emotions does make you human and not a biological robot, these emotions are still inferior and make you an inferior human being because they take away from the greatest emotions in your life which are love and pleasure. They are also inferior because they allow problems/rotten people in life to get to you and to make you an emotional slave to these problems/rotten people, rather than emotionally dominating over these problems/rotten people by living a happy empowered life and instead being superior to these things through your pleasure. This also applies to feelings of hopelessness (depression) and anhedonia (emotional numbness). Except that, these two feelings just mentioned are the most inferior of all and are not classified as feelings at all. They are the taking away of your feelings and make you an inferior biological robot.
18.) I watch and feel enlightened and empowered by anime (Japanese cartoons) in which there are god-like and mystical concepts such as god-like characters who have enhanced god-like pleasure and have power and control in their lives through their god-like powers as well as the concept of an afterlife. These concepts are superior to this inferior life in which we have less pleasure and basically have no power and control in our lives over suffering and that there is no afterlife of eternal joy to make us gods. Unlike the average person who watches anime and is inspired by realistic messages portrayed by anime such as making the best of life even during hardships, I am instead inspired by unrealistic messages such as the ruthless characters in anime with enhanced god-like pleasure and personality who seek god-like powers and control over reality and I am inspired by the mystical god-like concepts in anime as well. I have embraced these things and made myself into a megalomaniac who wishes to be a superior god-like being through my pleasure and pursues that in composing music. I am a megalomaniac only in the sense that I feel empowered by mystical god-like things and that I just wish to be a great and empowered person through my pleasure. I still have great value towards other people though.
My megalomania would of then enhanced my pleasure to manic states which would of made me a superior god-like being and a better composer (a superior god-like composer in a sense) who would then be able to create pieces of music that have much more feel and power to them (a manic feel) as opposed to if I was someone with depression and anhedonia (or even just the average person with a humble amount of pleasure) who would only be likely to create music that is nowhere near as great. My megalomania is not only inspired by the ruthless god-like characters, but also by innocent god-like characters which makes my megalomania a very empowered innocent god-like experience as well. I stated before that, since pleasure feels like the greatest thing to me, then that makes it great and makes me a great person. But if I also experience feelings of pleasure that feel god-like, then that would make my pleasure in this specific situation god-like and would make me god-like as well (metaphorically speaking). Experiencing god-like feelings of pleasure from mystical god-like things is what makes you a mystical god-like being in a sense. But now that I have no pleasure at all, I am unable to have any such pleasurable experience whatsoever.
19.) Now as I just stated, your happiness has just as much value as anyone else's (even your own family's happiness). In other words, their happiness is neither of lesser or even greater value than yours. So if I had the choice to either be a happy ****** and give my family the burden of taking care of me in which they would just feel a little loss of pleasure due to their hard lives of taking care of me, or to be an intelligent genius with no ability to experience pleasure whatsoever to make their lives happy, one might think that making the sacrifice in becoming the intelligent genius would be the right thing to do. But if I were to become the intelligent genius, that would say right there that my family's happiness is more important than mine. But if I were to become the happy ******, that would say right there that my own happiness has more value than theirs. Therefore, to determine which of these two sacrifices is the right one now all comes down to which of these two sacrifices would cause the greatest loss of pleasure. My family might be happy with a little loss of pleasure in having to take care of me if I was the happy ******, but I would have no pleasure whatsoever if I was the intelligent genius. So the right sacrifice for me to make would for me to become the happy ******. What would be even worse in me making the sacrifice in becoming the intelligent genius is that, since pleasure is the only greatest thing about you as a person in life and that to lose it would be the worst suffering, your family should not feel happy for you at all in making that sacrifice since you would now be nothing more than a biological robot regardless of how much value they have towards you and that you would be going through the worst suffering. Even if my family made the sacrifice in becoming happy retards if they had depression or anhedonia, I would feel that their decision was well-justified and was the right thing to do despite the fact that I would now have to take care of them. This and the other sacrifice I will explain later on in my writing in becoming happy wild animals are both the right sacrifices to make.
But aside from pleasure, one would also have to consider the non-emotional physical aspects in that making the sacrifice in becoming the happy ****** would cause the lives of your family to become a physical chore. But non-emotional physical aspects are nothing more than biological robotic functioning that really has no value. In other words, your happiness is the only thing that matters about you and to cause the lives of others to become a physical chore through your sacrifice in becoming the happy ****** does not matter. However, physical pain is something of value you would definitely have to consider in making your sacrifice in becoming the happy ******. An entire life of physical pain or any other unpleasant sensation might be just as bad as a life without pleasure (depending on the severity of the pain or unpleasant sensation). Although I am not sure if it can ever be just as bad (or even worse) than a life without pleasure. So to make my sacrifice in becoming the happy ****** at the expense of my family living an entire life of intense physical pain or any other unpleasant sensation, or to become the intelligent genius with no pleasure so that my family does not live a life of such misery, this is something undecided. But even so, if my family were to become happy retards at the expense of my life being nothing but physical pain or any other unpleasant sensation or if I were to do the same to them, it just might be the right thing to do considering just how important pleasure is for you in life.
20.) Even if you were a psychopath like Hitler who slaughtered many innocent people, as long as you have pleasure, that would make you the better person. You would even be far better than a depressed and emotionally numb innocent person who instead helped many people around the world.
Who you are as a person (in this case, being a psychopath like Hitler) is neither inferior nor superior to someone who helps and cares for other people because who you are as a person is nothing more than biological robotic functions and has no value whatsoever (whether positive or negative) compared to pleasure. It's only your amount of pleasure that makes you the better person. So this is the reason why people with nice happy lives are the better people. As for feelings of pleasure that are obtained from eating tasty foods (which I wouldn't even call pleasure at all--just simply a tasty sensation), these types of pleasure have no value and don't make you a better person. It's the other types of pleasure such as love, joy, motivation, empowerment, etc. (the "powerful" and "human-defining" feelings of pleasure), these are what make you the better person.
All of those "greater" feelings of pleasure I just mentioned, they all have equal value. Not having one of them would make you a lesser person. But despite the fact that Hitler has no love, he would still be better than an emotionally numb person who can't feel any form of pleasure whatsoever, but helped many people and gave them pleasure.
If I never had depression or anhedonia in my entire life and I never knew just how awful losing pleasure would feel, then I think I would not have valued pleasure to such an extreme as to even call Hitler himself great for having it. I would instead view him as a subhuman monster for ******* all those innocent people. But now that I have lost my pleasure, I realize just how great and absolutely necessary pleasure is for me in life and that it makes even the most wicked people great and absolutely nothing can take away from that greatness (other than them losing their own pleasure). It makes even the most wicked people great and makes even the most innocent people inferior biological robots if these innocent people didn't have it regardless of how caring and innocent these people are and what great things they do in life. Even if I were to fully recover my ability to experience pleasure, I would still never forget the immense value that pleasure has and I would still view Hitler as a great person for having it.
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There is one more thing I would like to add to my list of arguments in my previous post which are all arguments for the user gandolfication as well as others to debate:

21.) It's not life itself that I view as inferior--it is these concepts of life that I view as inferior such as there being no God or heaven for all our suffering as well as the concept that this is a life of suffering and of acceptance of our suffering and that we cannot be superior god-like beings who can be superior to this concept by exterminating it from existence. Me calling these concepts of life inferior and such would bring me great pleasure (feelings of empowerment) if I had my ability to experience pleasure right now. Also, I am not someone who looks outside of myself and finds greater things in life than my own pleasure. For example, I do not look at the universe as something far more amazing than my own pleasure and that I am insignificant in this universe. I instead embrace the universe and make myself more great (more significant) in increasing my pleasure. So this is why I will not let go and accept my loss of pleasure and instead open up to other things in life because I am a megalomaniac who seeks to be someone powerful and great in life through my empowered feelings of pleasure and such.

I'm going to reply to this one off-line.

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Sorry but no they are not. And not every person who appears to be happy, is actually happy.

Well that was quite a bit more succinct than my response (and pretty well said).

I think the argument would be that people who are genuinely happy are also better/superior.

The problem--among many--is that the terms needs definition and the argument needs support for among other reasons, the terms 'better' and 'superior' are inherently vague and ambiguous, meaning many, many different things to different people and depending on context and circumstances.

I also have a quaint egalitarian notion that all people have equal value by virtue of their intrinsic nature as human beings.

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I think the argument would be that people who are genuinely happy are also better/superior.

What I said still applies. This is the dark path to having an inferiority complex. Something a person with depression does not need to acquire.

Best tool: Do not compare the current status of your life with another.

Edited by Twilight Sky
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I think the argument would be that people who are genuinely happy are also better/superior.

What I said still applies. This is the dark path to having an inferiority complex. Something a person with depression does not need to acquire.

Best tool: Do not compare the current status of your life with another.

Yes, I agree. Comparing and setting false expectations are a source of so much suffering - and can be difficult (but worthwhile) to learn not to do.

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It is also a pipe dream as we all experience suffering and I think even despair, etc. We all would like this, but it isnt' in the cards. I hope for you that you're able to find some meaning in the going, in the journey as it were, rather than waiting for a perfection that will never arrive.

Again, what I mean by a life free of despair and suffering is just a nice happy life of little suffering and despair because I realize that there is no such perfect life in which we are completely free of suffering and despair.

For me to be fine with and accept this as a way of life would truly make me the inferior robot (why?)

The reason I and everyone else would be inferior for accepting a lifelong depression or anhedonia is because not only would our lives be worthless for no longer living our lives to solely experience love and pleasure, but also because we would have abandoned the greatest aspects of us as human beings (which would be our feelings of love and pleasure) and have chosen instead to be lesser beings who have value towards other things in life that are nothing compared to the level of greatness that defines these feelings themselves.

This is a long hypothetical you're attributing to me, again made up out of thin air as near as I can tell. As just one example, I think you are forgetting the multiplicity of ways that something like love can be expressed, particularly and especially via action, which strictly speaking, does not logically require any emotion.

I will point out what I said before which is that expressing ourselves and our actions are nothing compared to these feelings themselves. Also, if I were to explain my situation of depression or anhedonia to a young innocent child who lives in ignorant bliss, this child would be likely to have full compassion towards me by saying that this will fully recover, that accepting a lifelong depression or anhedonia that never gets better or fully recovers would be a hopeless and worthless life that would warrant suicide as a means to put one out of his/her misery and for that very reason, I will be the hero and fully overcome my depression and anhedonia. However, someone who does not live in such innocent ignorant bliss and instead has value towards other things in life such as philosophies that encourage acceptance of living an entire life of suffering and despair, these would be the types of people who have less compassion/value towards my lost feelings of love and pleasure by telling me instead to accept a life of depression or anhedonia that might never get better or fully recover. Therefore, these types of people who have more value towards gaining knowledge and such are the lesser beings who no longer have the innocence and compassion of a young child. For this very reason, I will instead turn to people who have true full compassion towards me and not to those people who are "wise and intelligent inferior biological robots with little to no value and compassion towards the greatest aspects of me as a human being (which are my feelings of love and pleasure) which are the one and only precious things to me that make my life worth living."

Or, you might have wasted it longing for a restored past while you could have been living your life, with some acceptance of all its imperfectness and pain. It must be conceded this is at least another possibility since many are bearing this out every day.

Like I said before, feelings of love and pleasure are the only greatest aspects of me as a human being and are the only things that make my own personal life worth living. So for me to abandon them and instead live my life for other reasons besides trying to fully recover them, THAT would be the wasted life for me.

Edited by MattMVS7
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  • 5 months later...

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