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Everything posted by mynah

  1. hello i'm still here and i finally have a new computer now. (and failed to make the old one work properly.) i'm working on it to make it work as i want it, and i take too long, longer than i wanted. i need much longer for everything these days, much longer than i used to. (does prolonged depression **** brain cells?? i'm not _that_ old yet but i think this is how dementia must feel...) a new OS and i still have to get used to it and how to deal with it (not really enthousiastic about it), and took me some weeks now to get the internet connection working at least. otherwise, there is not much news. i'm still depressed. and insomniac. and all that. and problems still growing bigger faster than i can solve them. and the anxiety disorder has grown if anything. to live as a hermit and not even internet. a weird life. and isolation and loneliness doesn't help the depression to lift either i feel. i don't think much can change any more in my life. there isn't much left of it. but okay, i go on struggling on. although i can't figure out why, i still go on struggling on.
  2. hi Tweed, i can understand your pain too. i suffer from anxiety too. and i've had situations too, where i was almost 'obsessed' with the fears. while others couldn't really understand why, why it upset me so much, and for a long time. i can understand that for them such things are not "this big". for me it is. and i think i'm beginning to understand, at least partly, why. it seems to me, that for me this extreme, prolonged anxiety comes up when it is about something very existential to me. and, having lost so much already, in my life, and in the course of those years suffering from depression and anxiety, for the few things that are not yet lost, it feels especially threatening and upsetting to me to see them endangered, threatened. i think it is good that you have a therapist now, and i hope that s/he can help you to work through these issues. it is weird, reading your post, i was reminded of my own, intense, and maybe/probably irrational fear (well, rational in a way, but irrational in the extent) and how i worry, and how others (friends or family) have reacted to that. and telling me that my fear is exaggerated, and irrational. i was reminded of my own frantic anxiety and worrying about something, and others' reactions to my anxiety. for me, much of my biggest anxiety reactions is about losing my place to live. when something happens that threatens my home, my anxiety raises to the skies. i could imagine, that for you, as a writer, this idea of someone (and even a malicious person) getting your texts, must be a very upsetting, and in a way 'fundamentally existentially threatening' thing. i'm trying to learn to accept my being so 'weird'. for me there are things that really scare me, and situations i can think of that i really couldn't bear to experience. that's what i'm trying to do, to learn to accept it. because it doesn't get better when i beat myself up for it. and if i'm not going to give understanding and acceptance to myself, who is going to? well, that's my way, or rather the one i'm trying. and i learn to accept that others who don't know this kind of extreme anxiety cannot understand it. they can't even imagine how it is, i think. i try not to hope anymore that they could really understand. maybe it's just not possible. they might know fear, and i'm sure they could imagine some situations where they maybe would panic, but to understand why i react like this in a situation that for them does NOT seem "life threatening", maybe is asked too much. so i'm trying to tell myself, in such situations, that it is okay to feel this anxiety, and to see / know that there is a reason for it. but also, that the extent of my anxiety is too much. so i try to work on the intensity of the anxiety, but not on telling myself that there is "no reason to fear" (when there is) (whether it is 'small' or 'big' reasons in the eyes of others, but there is a reason, in my situations). for me, losing my home would be terrible, so when something happens that might cause this loss, it is a reason to feel afraid. i'm not really sure whether for me this is 'pure anxiety', or whether my ptsd plays a role in this too for me. the intensity (and thus, the 'irrational' part of it) comes close to what i know from my 'ptsd-typical reactions'. and maybe my experiences with my 'ptsd fears' has brought me to this approach of 'acceptance', and at the same time knowing that others cannot know why exactly it is so very scary/terrible for me. so i try not to expect too much understanding from them... and i try to find out for myself, how i can minimize the risks, and to do what i CAN do (when i can), and what 'protection from disaster' i could find, and leave the things i cannot change to god. and tell myself that 'there is no 100% security', as much as i hate that sentence. best wishes m.
  3. hi lfvalade, and to DF i can relate to the extreme tension and fatigue. Years of depression sure takes a toll on you. i don't know about the hormones and all that, none of my docs ever tested anything. but i'm sure exhausted and tired and it's getting worse. Anxiety and Depression here too. and it seems to me the frequent panic attacks are also exhausting physically. at least it feels like. i'd like to hear more about what you're doing to get out of, or prevent, the tiredness. oh, adrenal glands, is that where the cortisole is produced? something to do with stress? m
  4. hello annain and to DF (DepressionForums) and to this room. i've read. and i care. and i hope you will come back. if not to this thread, or only some time later (i think it can be difficult to learn to deal with the starting to tell things..), then hopefully to other parts of the forums or this room. i hope you will find helpful texts to read, and good support from other members, on DF. and please, do not worry about "taking up space". you are NOT "taking too much..." or anything like that. you had a lot of traumatic experience in your life. sad enough that it was so much. when there is much that has happened, it is much to write. it is as long as it is, it is okay, it is as it is. you are welcome here, and welcome to write your story, and to write things out. sometimes it can be helpful indeed. but it is difficult too, and it needs courage to do it. congratulations on this hard work! and that you managed to write it down. and klick this 'send' button. it is hard too, i think, to see your own experiences written down. well it is for me. difficult. when i face my own stories. hard to realize, all this has happened to me, and i have to live with it now. different to have single pieces of it to haunt me in my nightmares, or to see it all written down. but i think it is necessary to realize, yes that is how it was. i hope you get support from your T too, to cope with this getting-more-real of what had happened. have you also learned some methods or techniques, in therapy, how to distance yourself from the traumatic memories when it's getting too much? (or maybe getting flooded by memories is not so much a problem for you..?) you can post for more support here too, or if you want more people to read it you could post in Depression Central (as indeed there are not _too_ many people here, compared to Depresson Central), i think there are quite some people out there who can relate to how disturbing or hard to cope with it can be to face things that have happened in the past. best wishes mynah
  5. - managed to water my plants - helped a neighbour this week (and realizing today that this is something good, for me belongs in my 'positivity list': i was able to help. and managed to do something useful.) - no need today to leave my house
  6. thank you again slw! your input is very valuable to me. interesting, this socially awkward without the anxiety part. i'm trying to sort through my thoughts. thanks for telling me about you and about your son. btw i think it is great that you trying to let this be his private thing. probably isn't easy for a parent. but important i think. "socially ********" seems to have a rather negative sound to it? (but then i am usually not very sure about my interpretations of meanings or implications conveyed with the words. that's why i ask a lot, and sometimes 'weird' questions...) is this more of a way of putting yourself down, or a meant in a way of 'matter of fact description'? are there other terms for it? i've tried to do some reading on it, what i found was topics related to social skills, or rather lack of... and something about adaptive behaviour (which rather makes me think of Pawlow's dog and Skinner's rats and such) my pdoc recently mentioned social skills training. but in the context of my anxiety (of phone calls, of asking for something, ...) - there i am again with the phobia topic. i'm trying to sort one from the other. obviously they can exist one without the other. if your son comes across some miracle technique i'd love to know it too for me too the goal is not to become a social butterfly. but i need some getting better in everyday functioning. i hardly function anymore in any way. and i'm a grown up (in years at least) and living on my own and need a bit more than the very basics of everyday surviving-from-dawn-to-dusk-and-through-the-night or barely-functioning. i have to come to stop avoiding each and every scary thing. but slowly, step by step, otherwise i get overwhelmed again. it's not easy. the anxiety issues are some of my issues for therapy. that is, if i go to therapy. i hope to be able to go again next year. i also try to work through my issues in other ways, books, reading, working on myself, as good as i can. to do what i can do on my own. apply tools and methods... to read what i can find on it. i hope your son will be able to work through his issues with the help of the psychologist, and get less afraid with time and more able to do things. probably there's also things he would like to do if he could (but anxiety preventing it). i really hope he'll find his way out of this. did you do working on the social awkwardness for yourself? maybe did you do things like social skills training for awkwardness or something (if such exists)? well that is in case you felt you wanted to work on that, it to be too much of a problem for you? often i find the tools and methods i've come across so far do work on the social phobia part of it for me. but still don't give me much of a clue as to how to be less awkward. and i feel the need to find out of that too. and it often fuels my anxiety even more. i'm coming to think more and more that for me somehow it might be two (obviosly different?) parts of the problem... (but also feeding each other) ... so maybe i have to adress them separately? and i do remember that i had my share of awkwardness even before i was this 'case of anxiety' that i'm now. even in primary school. iirc it was some social thing that made them decide against skipping grades. well i'm still trying to figure it all out and how to tell one from the other.
  7. hi Belle, i'm not sure about the spelling of qi gong i might have this wrong. i hope you'll find info. glad you think this exercise might be useful to try maybe you can also create your own variations of it when some parts don't suit you well, don't feel comfortable. you can even do something similar lying on the floor. i think my 'version' of the exercise isn't even exactly the original one, it said in the book to take what helps you from the exercises and leave what's not useful for you, and to try variations and find out what helps you best. oh, and i only sing when there's no one around me and my neighbours not at home! (really wouldn't want anyone to hear me croaking.. ;) ) take care mynah
  8. i still have not filled in this form. but. i have almost finished writing a short chronological about what happened oct and nov. it is so difficult for me to remember everything at once. i do have memory problems, especially in the sense that there seems to be only one event at the time to fit in my brain to think about. (eek this sounds too strange.) so i have to do it bit by bit. i can remember, but only piece by piece, not all at the same time. and working hard to figure out what has happened on which day. some days were just too full of things happening, seems like a whole week. i need this 'review' of what happened when, as in the form they ask about 'the accident on date xyz' while the accident was another day but i had to go to hospital on the later date again, but it was not a new accident. and i'm still trying to figure out what exactly they want to know with this form. if it really is what they ask, the answer doesn't fit into that one line. maybe i just have to use an extra sheet of paper. oh lord have mercy why am i so scared to fill in a form and maybe not fill it correctly. i'm also working on telling myself that it is GOOD that i'm working on this form, on remembering and thinking through what-has-happened (and it is painful); and trying to avoid thoughts of berating myself for not having this finished yet.
  9. mynah


    hi florry, i'm glad that you're ok so far now and that you managed to wrestle it back into that manageable ball inside, and not have it 'overflooding' you anymore for now. it gets easier to deal with feelings when they not pop up all together screamin negativity at you in unison. but difficult the process to learn to deal with them. depression can be a nasty beast. glad that you're still here!
  10. hi Deet, did some of your symptoms or how you felt when very depressed was very similar to symptoms of the stomach bug? i wouldn't be surprised if such a similarity could cause the feeling like depression is coming back. i know it can work in such a way for me with panic attacks. some of my symptoms with panic attacks are: being short of breath or the feeling i can't get enough air, can't breathe well. and my heart racing. and sweating. and it seems that sometimes my body takes such symptoms as a cue that now it's time to have a full-blown panic attack. with the whole of the panicky feelings. even if the 'original symptoms' just came from doing exercise or climbing a long flight of stairs too fast and i did not feel anxiety when doing that. just my two cents. take care mynah
  11. hi Belle, i've experienced situations like this too. the 'fight or flight' theory i think is what explains it... (if you can do neither, there's the 3rd 'way out' which is to 'freeze', to get like paralyzed.) there is an exercise that helps me in such a situation - or better when i'm not yet in 'complete paralysis'. no idea if this could be useful for you too. i think it has to do with mindfulness, and being aware of the feelings. to sit on a chair, rather straight, and focus on my body parts that rest on the chair, and my feet on the ground. gah, this sounds stupid. let me try again. i sit on that chair, and try to focus, slowly, part by part, on the different parts of me touching somewhere, something. my feet on the ground, and how stable the ground is, my back side on that chair, the upper parts of the legs, and my back against the back of the chair. and the arm rests. and what parts of my body are sustained by that chair, by the floor, ... i try to shut out everything from 'outside' for that time, sounds/noises around me, even thoughts, just concentrating on sitting there, touching the chair and the floor and feeling that. when i'm kind of 'more grounded', in the here and now, just in this moment, how i sit there, and feel the contact surfaces with the stable ground and chair. then i can open my mind again to what goes on around me, sounds, to listen to them, or my thoughts. or i start to do breathing exercises, which also help me with my anxiety. it is easier to do the breathing when sitting on a chair, instead of hugging my knees curled up on the floor. and the 'pre-exercise' of feeling my body on that chair helps me to better be able to feel the breathing in my body. but often i just do this 'chair exercise', not in preparation for breathing, but just to get me out of this curled-up ball of anxiety. also i do allow myself to be not relaxed. i allow myself to cling to the arm rests or whatever, when anxiety is high, it is just about focusing on what do i feel concerning my body and this chair i'm sitting on, not about judging how do i sit there or trying to force myself to relax (this has not worked for me, and i think 'force' and 'relax' is just too opposite for me...) i don't remember well where i have this exercise from, i think it might have been a book about coping with ptsd stress and symptoms (thus also anxiety and 'being like frozen'). tai chi and qi gong have been useful for me too (but not when i was in the middle of such a 'paralysis'), deep breathing / breathing exercises, and ... singing (yes) (seems that the body regulates deep breathing just by itself when singing?) good that you're on your way to find ways what you can do to work on these anxiety reactions. benzo's can help for the moment but for the long run it's better to find other ways. best wishes mynah
  12. yes, exactly, like a big fake. even when it's really what i want to say, what i want to convey, and not know how or with what words, and then using words that others have used. so either i remain silent or i feel like a fake. i'm rather comfortable too with silence when there's nothing to say. but there's few people with whom i could have good comfortable silences. i need something for my hands too. often i wear long sleeves, so i can hide my hands when they're so busy with this seams at the edge of the sleeve... or to hide the tiny scraps i've made of that tissue. the 'hello how are you' often is what my awkward social situations start with. i remember to just say "fine", i know that it's not the time or place to say anything about how i am. sometimes gets difficult though when they can see from my face that i'm not fine. i really have to work on this looking thing some more. i've been trying to keep eye contact enough so they know i'm listening and interested. but very often i'm like one of these, either (scared/anxiety...maybe also from hypervigilance?) or (very busy looking at the floor...ashamed, afraid, depressed...) - so i can understand why i make a weird impression. but i haven't really figured out yet how to be different. i've come across something about the time how much / how long to look at people, like between one-third and two-third of the time seems to be good, less makes you seem uninterested or not honest, more makes you seem agressive. so i come to understand how i could maybe come across as agressive when i have these huge staring eyes or even as if i was not truth when i'm looking at the feet most of the time. eek, this is difficult. studying anthropology seems nothing to me compared to understanding this. thank you for listening and for your input
  13. hi windmills, hi djaef, hi all, as you can see this discussion is not being discouraged here on DF: we're here, we're talking about it, and we're still here. if it was discouraged i trust that there would have been a comment from mods or admin to please stop this or we'd have been pm'ed about it and asked politely. in my experience over the years here on DF this is what happens if something can't be accepted, and it happens when there is reason to. keeping to the TOS and the work of mods and admins is what makes it a safe haven for all of us. everyone here works on him/herself to keep it respectful as good as they can, and this is good. not everyone who has written here before can or want to take the same amount of time and thought to reply to everything, i think it depends on each's own level of being busy elsewhere and on the personal "pressure from suffering" with a certain issue. for me, i've been suffering very much with this topic, it's an important one for me, so it's my choice to put in a lot of time and effort. not everyone can. as i see it, this is especially difficult for the ones who carry the load of working to keep DF running smoothly all the time (our moderators and admin - they have a lot to do here, and i take my hat off to them!). i even think self-censorship is a good thing at times. i know i do watch my words often (in rl as well as here) as i don't want to step on someone's toes if it is avoidable. i know how my own toes hurt when someone else does. i know it's not always avoidable, and mostly when it happens it's not on purpose (here on DF i can even be quite sure of that), so i work on myself to not take offense. and i know that the bigger the crowd the more difficult it gets to see everyone's toes when discussing the pros and cons of the meds approach i think it is important to not forget some points: - there is many people who have never taken meds or are just starting their treatment, maybe even haven't made it to see a doc about it yet, and they might be unsure about whether to take meds or not. - there are many many "guests" reading on DF, probably many of them even never register, they just keep reading, and try to find ideas and find info/help just by reading - and they won't post or ask questions as they're not registered. - we're discussing this in "Depression Central", which is a part of the boards that everyone can see, and the most frequented part of DF i think - there is about 50-70% of depression people who do get help from the meds. so the chances are relatively high that someone who tries a med for his/her depression will get some relief from the med. - sometimes (especially when confronted with this illness or diagnose of depression for the first time) people tend to react in a rather 'panicky' way, or just not having the energy to think themselves through all the pros and cons there are (i know i often don't manage to work up energy for anything with my depression), might get frightened by reading a more 'critical discussion'. and often with depression and anxiety it seems so much easier just not to do anything, as every change can be scary - it might turn out for the worse, is what _my_ depressed mind tells me very often. i for one wouldn't want to discourage anyone from trying to find something that could bring him/her relief from the sufferings of depression. whatever my own experiences with AD. even if the percentage of effectiveness was much lower, i would not want to keep someone from something that might help them. even if maybe it will not help them. but they cannot know in advance. much the less can i know whether it would help them or not. i do not think it makes sense to debate about whether some call it a "cure" and whether it is or not; however small or big or total the positive effect might be for a person, as long as it helps in one way or another, it is good to find help in battling depression. i do think it is good to be able to make informed decisions. and to have a closer look at what can i do to battle depression, besides meds, or even instead of meds. i also think it's not wrong to think about possible 'risks' of different approaches before trying them, and about what can i do to minimize the risks and what can i do if... (and i do think it's also important not to get lost in the "what ifs" - depression and anxiety can do that easily too.) and i think it's important for those who do not find help in a med they've tried, maybe even found too much of negative effects, to know they're not alone. to know it can happen, and it's not their fault (depression has this nasty way of producing guilt feelings about whatever...), and to know where to get support too when things i tried did not work out in the way i had hoped. from my own experience i know that doctors often have not been as supportive about this topic as i had wished, and i know that it has been too difficult for me to find words for my painful experiences when it was very fresh; i hope for everyone to get the support they need, be it with the meds approach, other / alternative approaches, in any combinations, and also the drug free approach. i know that the things that for me are an elephant in my living room, maybe for others is just a fly in their living room. i appreciate it very much when they can see that i in fact do have an elephant to deal with, and not tell me it's just a fly, but i also acknowledge that they just have to deal with a fly in their living rooms, and cannot imagine my animal is an elephant... (they're not sitting on my couch...) you cannot know for sure how a med will affect you if you've never tried. (that is, unless you know of any other rare medical condition you have, that might make it impossible to take a certain drug; i think they're listed in the 'contra indications' for every med.) i respect a critical view on "western medicine", it is a valid point of view, i think there is value too in approaches like homeopathy for instance, and i do know that herbs can be powerful (and harmful - SE!) medicine too - even some of our today 'chemical medicines' have been developed from certain 'active ingredients' of natural medicine, as for instance 'aspirine' is found in willow bark. but i do not think a 'general discussion' about 'medical approaches' belongs to DF, i'm sure there's other discussion groups about that in general. as to fighting depression, the specific meds (chemical, natural, ...) have their rooms or threads on these boards. .... i've been too long already ... enough for now. take care all mynah @djaef: no you did not suggest it would. you're right. i'm sorry.
  14. mynah


    ((((HAC)))) such fleeting moments of feeling more happy (or for now, the memory of them) often is what keeps me going too ... in the hope of another one of those moments some time to come, if i only hang in there for long enough some feeling like that will happen another day. yes, it is possible. it is difficult, hard, and tiresome, but possible. kind of in "survival mode", to get through it, i think.it can be helpful to be able to talk about things, or just let it out. better than to keep everything inside all the time. about you pondering about DID, have you seen the PD/PTSD/DID room? (probably you have..) i thought maybe there's more interesting info there too, and i know there used to be members with DID here (some time ago), maybe some are still here and have ideas on this too. take care mynah
  15. not sure if i find something every day, i'll try. today definitely something good: managed to sleep for almost 8 hours, _and_ woke up not remembering any dreams.
  16. mynah


    hi florry, i guess i can relate to your word list. if i wrote a list about me would probably look pretty similar. however you sound to me as if you would need real life help now. PLEASE if you feel as down as your post sounds, do get real life help NOW! call a helpline, call 911 (err not sure, is it the same in UK?) or go to ER. we don't want you to be going! here's the UK helplines: http://www.depressionforums.org/forums/Suicide-support-information-UK-t2972.html (sorry i can't even manage to post a link...)
  17. hi HAC, i can see how that experience with the psychiatrist has influenced your feelings about seeing psychiatrists and taking meds. i think it must have been difficult enough for you to request seeing a p-doc. the idea was a good one. you have my respect, for deciding to aks for help at a young age (it took me long to go that step). i'm sorry that it turned into such a sad experience! (however i hope you're not repeating such experiments as with a liter of brandy... ) there should be more time for listening than just to one first sentense, at the doc's. and more monitoring how the patient fares with the prescribed meds. you've really met an extreme there i think, with that doc. i hope you'll eventually come around to try another time to see another p-doc, and i hope that when you do, you'll manage to find one from the opposite side of the scale, an understanding, listening and sensitive p-doc (yes they do exist it seems ) maybe you're rather sensitive to AD, some people are, and if you should want to give it another try one day i'd suggest you'd ask the doc about starting with a small dose and slowly increasing, some do that to find out what dosage works best or is most bearable from SE. as to "biased": we all have our opinions, and an opinion is subjective by definition, so of course it's not all "pure logic". so what? it's human. i want to hear your opinion about it as well as others'. there is no bashing here, that's the good thing about this safe haven of DF, and we can talk and discuss and ask questions and have an opinion about something, even if it's not all logic. my experience is that there's always the possibility to ask why someone thinks so, or what's his experiences about something, and often their opinion gets easier to understand then. i realize i'm lucky to know some people (irl) who take AD and do well on them, so that kind of helps me to put my own experiences with meds into perspective. and yes, i've seen that episode of Monk, preaching in the streets (i could never preach in the streets, agora-/social-phobic me, lol). and i really like it about that series that there is someone who in fact is kind of disabled in a way, by his mental health problems, and many things he cannot do, and still there is other things he can do, and even things he is brilliant at. that's beautiful. take care mynah
  18. hi djaef, i'm sorry that you're under such pressure now to get better soon. that must make the feelings even worse. but you're right sometimes the fear of a worsening or a possible event that you don't want at all can give a shift to one's viewpoint on possible help or remedies. to maybe even try things you otherwise maybe wouldn't have wanted to try. is your main reason why you've "resisted taking meds" because of possible side effects? have you experienced SE before? or had other bad experiences that were "not very probable"? (just curious...) you also mentioned the "brain zaps" in your first posting - i don't know how chances are to get them (maybe also it has not been studied much), but i've heard of them too, as a possible "weaning symptom". i've also heard that to reduce the meds slowly helps prevent those symptoms. (although sometimes they still happen it seems.) i don't know if "statistics and probabilities" really help in any other way than to say that "chances are higher" or "chances are lower" that something will or will not happen, which still does not help in knowing whether it will happen to you. one thought that has been crossing my mind was: what have you got to loose if you try? (med) well you cannot be 100% sure it will work. but also not that it won't work. if it does not work you've tried for yourself and are 'an experience wiser'. i hope you won't belong to the few percent that get severe SE. and if you should get them, at least you've informed yourself well before you tried, and maybe had some thoughts in advance about what you could take and what you couldn't or for how long, SE-wise, and can make an informed decision about when to stop trying. so, if you'll try them one day, you have an advantage by having thought about it before, and another advantage is to have found DF and support here. btw i really don't think a two weeks camp with whoever would "cure depression". (like 'selling miracle healing' this sounds to me.) this is just my opinion. my experience with therapy is that it can take an awfully long time, especially when there is additional stressors in life that make everyday existence even more of a burden. also it depends on the therapy approach, methods, and the issues to work through, among other, what can come out of it in what time. but i think even when you have not (yet?) 'come very far', if it has helped you at least a bit, even if 'only' to survive through the worst of depression and "only" have dysthymia for now (not as if dysthymia was 'fun' to live with), it's a good thing. personally i've even come to think that maybe not everything can be "mended" again, and probably i'll have to be content if i reach 'out of the pit' again, not hoping for 'complete remission' anymore... but then who knows maybe that's only 'depressive thinking', could be as well. but i keep telling myself small steps will get me somewhere too and i need a lot of patience. take care mynah
  19. thank you scott and somelostsoul. and welcome to DF! i will tell you if i come across ideas how to come out of it. or maybe others have some ideas and write them here. i hope. for some time i had thought it would get better with "training". maybe some of it does... (maybe it just takes some more time?). at least usually it's a little bit better when i've already know the people or the place for a while. (or maybe then they're more used to me being 'weird' so it gets less important? or both.) the "training" should help with the social anxiety i think. and i'm sure part of it is due to social anxiety, or at least it gets worse when anxiety is worse. there is another part to it, atleast it seems to me. something i find difficult to explain. like how do i explain something that i don't know? but i think it is there. to me it seems as if there is something that everyone somehow "just knows" or "automatically does", like instinctively, while i don't have much of a clue. things like when to say what, when to be quiet; where to look, or for how long; ... i don't know well how to describe it, i just feel it is something that most often does not 'automatically' come to me. i've come to understand however that it does play an important role, and makes people decide what they think about me ("how i am"). one example is the looking, i've understood so far that it is not good to look at someone for too long or to not look at them for too long (which it seems i do too much especially when i'm scared, either of the two, but never in the right balance). but i think "normally" a person doesn't have to think about where to look and for how long, they just do it the way it should be done, like "instinctively" or whatever, i have no idea how they know what they have to do.
  20. You should be able to find a liquid tincture of this, or the actual plant itself, from which you could make tea. I'd link, but this is not allowed. Look it up on google. There is a lot of information about it out there. drinking tea made from St.John's Wort would not give you enough of the stuff for it to be effective it seems, the dosage in the studies i've heard / read of about St.Johns Wort was much higher than what you find in tea. for St. Johns Wort i think crushing or chewing the pills would make more sense. (as it works when it gets to your stomach, doesn't need to reach the intestines in a 'stomach-proof shell' like some meds do)
  21. hi Wayne, you wrote these words to djaef but please allow me to share my thoughts and feelings and questions about this. i might be a bit sensitive about this topic, as i have had my experiences that i don't wish on anyone, and i've had some words along that kind of line directed to me before (other time and place, not here); but i'm this topic is important to me and i hope that i'll manage to word my thoughts in an understandable way today. first of all, my impression with this thread was that djaef wanted to discuss possible ways of working his way out of depression favoring a drug free approach, gave his thoughts on this, asked questions, and some of the discussion then was about why or why not meds and what is or might be (or go) wrong with taking meds - a discussion, in my eyes, that went in a non-judgemental way, talking about reasons why to take meds, how they maybe can help, how they maybe cannot help, and what else can be found to help. also i have not found that djaef has made a judgement of the value of meds. i can see that to many who take AD and have found they've helped them, this kind of discussion might seem unnecessary or not understandable, maybe even annoying? to me, this discussion - and the possibility to have this way of and kind of discussion - is an important one. and i am glad that it is not a "strictly pro vs strictly against" one. i sincerely hope it will continue to be "open" (i mean 'not strictly opposite'). you write that you "doubt that the small amount of members here that are against medications are anywhere near the norm". there is a question i have, when reading this: what do you mean by the norm? Do you refer to the majority of AD users? or of people suffering from depression? or the majority of DF members? and i wonder: is it wrong to think about what meds can do and what they can't? to think and discuss about their use? also i wonder: what about that percentage who do not find help from medications? does the relatively small size of the percentage give reason to not discuss this topic? i don't really understand the reason behind your words, i'm trying to understand / guess your possible thoughts, do you mean that there is no sense in talking about meds, but once a doctor has prescribed something, just take it and that's it? (hard for me to imagine, from other posts i've read from you. but maybe?) what i seem to 'hear' from your lines (or between?) is a kind of ... anger/annoyed? about this topic, with someone not taking meds? or what is it? (but as this is the 'written talk' not the spoken, i might be completely wrong as well.) i'm sure you have a reason to write what you wrote. and i'm trying to get it. the comment about the enlighted person and fear somehow felt weird for me. i suffer from anxiety disorder as well as depression, so enlightment must be very far for me for sure? for me, part of my working hard to face my fears is to have a closer look at them. if my thoughts about meds had nothing to do with my experiences with meds, i would still think it makes sense to have a closer look at how do they work, what can they do, how big a chance that they'll work, and also what if they don't... peace and love mynah
  22. should have been sleeping since many hours. but couldn't. it's almost time to get up again by now. :blink: :stars:
  23. i have this rare talent to say the wrong things or in the wrong way. or time. to put my foot in it. so mostly i just keep quiet and say nothing. and afraid to say something wrong. and sometimes to say nothing is the wrong thing, is a social blunder too. or maybe the whole thing comes from the social phobia and i'm so scared to say something wrong that when i finally say something it comes out awkward? (it is so much easier to listen...) i'm really not good at conversation, the 'normal everyday nice talking'. when it is about a certain subject, or scientifical things, it's not so bad. if i know something it is easier to say something. when it is about facts or such, or things you can read about, or technical things. easier to talk _about_ something, and not talk as "social interaction". i often get feedback that i should not say sorry or excuse me all the time. so okay obviously i do that too much. (and worst is to say sorry to a feedback like that...) so when i feel like saying sorry and think maybe this might be inappropriate i try not to say it. or at least not too much, i try. so i say nothing. and feel terrible. to reply nothing often is awkward too. really, i have no clue of how to "talk normally". i have to think a lot to decide what i could say. i've tried watching others how they "do the social talk", and have tried to 'copy' from others to know what to say. but i still have no clue how this works, i can't figure out, it just does not come to me. i do have the thoughts in me, i want to convey something, and i often empathize - but i don't have what words to say. and this is in whatever language. i can learn a foreign language, i can talk in that language, but whatever language when it comes to this "social talk" i'm at a loss. as if there was a gene for "social talk" that i just don't have. i've even tried to ask friends how they do it. i was not able to convey what i meant. i just got really puzzled wondering looks. it is like in a foreign country, without roads or signposts, and no map or compass. i thought maybe there is folks out here who have encountered something similar? know what i mean? other social phobics? shy people? maybe even someone who has faced something similar and overcome it, learned how to "do the talk"? or any input on this, ideas? how do you think could i work on this? i'd appreciate your thoughts on this.
  24. ... and he, that shy guy, who never dared to drive a car, started to drive around in a cool car and behaving very macho. such things. that episode was funny :) i used to watch monk when it was on tv here. well, for one, i don't think this gives a realistic picture, and to conclude from a tv series that "meds would change your personality into the opposite" or something like that seems weird to me. also, Mr Monk has his nurse-assistant always by his side, helping him, doing things for him. (hey, i wish i had someone to drive me everywhere!) - btw he's also in financial trouble often, due to not being able to "function normally". the other thing is, very often meds do not "solve the problem" but are rather supposed to give you a much needed rest from the illness, to bring some relief from the suffering, so that you'll get into a better position / situation to work on your issues. to find the energy to go to therapy, for some; to be able to act against that anxiety that's crippling your everyday life, for others; they often are a 'push' to get able to find ways to get better. that is, if they work for you. if not, you'll have to find your way out of depression / anxiety / ... without them. in most cases it is not that the meds make you fine again and that's it, is what i think, but they can help to get on the way to get better, to get able to work your way out of the illness. (for some people it seems that the meds alone already are "the solution" i read. well, if they say so i take it as this is how it is for them.) it is very difficult to solve "outside stressors" while severely depressed or crippled by anxiety. i can imagine that to have some "chemical help" with it - if it works - is a big relief. yes it is easier. the easiest way is to (not) listen for about 3-5 minutes and then send you out with a prescription or with packages of AD. and it is really sad that there are docs who hardly ever take the time to listen. what you seem to wish for (and i wouldn't mind either to have a doc like that), that a doctor should listen for hours and hours and think your whole situations and the why's and how's through thoroughly and find The Solution (med-free) for your specific situation, your illness, your situation in life, simply is not possible. however there are doctors who take more than 5 minutes and actually listen to their patients. and even try to help them in other ways, not _only_ "throwing meds at them". they are hard to find i think. i have thought a lot about this. and i have hurt a lot about this. i've come to think that probably it is very difficult for a doctor, even one who really wants to help their patients, to find other ways to help them instead of give them meds. most pdocs (at least here (europe)) are not doing therapy but have their office hours to treat many patients, just like any other doctor. that's how their "business" works. it is different when you're doing therapy somewhere, then you maybe have an hour per week, to talk. not just 20 minutes in 2 months. so it is a short time that they see their patients. sadly, many of the doctors seem to think "pills help, period." so that's what they do in the short time they have. maybe also they are used to patients who want a quick solution, want to get out of misery soon, and many do not object meds. honestly i couldn't think of many other things how a doctor could try to help their patients in such a short time. the "med free approach" to me seems to be more time-consuming. and to deal with a very depressed person in the office hours also is not so easy i think, rarely do patients tell quickly and concisely what is the matter, well i am not able to do that when i sit there, and the first time i went to a doc i think i just cried a lot and couldn't say very much. so maybe they hope once the patient gets stabilized by meds it gets easier... i think "meds yes or no" is only part of the problem, another part is to find a doctor who's at your side to help you, when - for whatever reasons - your main approach is not or cannot be meds. it is already a precious thing to find a doc who at least not only "throws meds at you". but for example also helps to find the best (form of) therapy (what fits you). *steps off soapbox* edit: often i use the word "drug" for meds, as that's what they are called pharmaceutically. i've tried to find those text parts and edit them as i thought maybe this could misunderstanding... hope i found them all.
  25. hmm... if it is not completely isolated from the rest of panic symptoms that you experience, and when it goes with feelings of anxiety, maybe it _could_ be related to the anxiety.... but better however if you manage to work up the courage to go back to doc about it, then you can _know_. there is something it reminds me of. i don't have it in the chest, but i sometimes get a constricted feeling at the throat. painful, and scary. and difficult to swallow and even breathing sometimes. usually it comes together with other anxiety symptoms. sometimes it's just the constriction there that i feel. but when i look closer to myself then, to my feelings, i realize that there is a huuuge lump of scared and panic and pain an misery sitting in my soul and i'm just trying to ignore it. i have no idea if this is comparable. what i do then is i try to work my "anti anxiety programme", i try relaxation, breathing techniques, or try to write down and sort out what scares me so much, whatever, the same things that can help me with anxiety however. and the constricted feeling recedes. so i take it as one of the many body reactions of my anxiety, and apply the same methods and they help the same. with pain in the chest there is one big difference i think: there could be real physical reasons for that. while my huge lump in the throat is not physical and the feeling of something around my neck is the psyche playing tricks. maybe you could do both things: do see the doc in any case. and you could also try whether to reduce your anxiety will also get the chest pain away. if it is just from the anxiety this could help (maybe needs some training). you might find out more about your body reactions. when you go there do tell the doctor that sometimes it comes unrelated. and see what he thinks. (maybe he has also idea for exercises what you could do when you get it? like breathing techniques, or maybe other ideas.) take care
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