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NothingToLiveFor

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  1. Thanks so much too! Now I think I do need to take a break from this thread and get out the house.
  2. Thanks for clarifying. I was hoping it was something like that but, like I say, the day I wrote my other posts was a day when I probably shouldn't have been on the internet so I interpreted everything badly. Absolutely. If I didn't want to be friends with someone without anything romantic then I wouldn't want a romantic relationship with them anyway. Thanks. Rereading I saw you did say this earlier but I missed it in favour of the stuff I wanted to rant about. Sorry. @Sophy Basically, I need to stay clear from the internet. That's my first goal anyway and a whole other issue and something I've been struggling with for ages. It stops me getting stuff done as well as ruining my self esteem and that has a further effect on my self esteem as I don't get as much done as I planned. It's not shyness just as in quietness though - it's being passive, unable to ask people out and no matter how hard I try to hide it and the fact that undoubtedly the insecurities and lack of confidence will show themselves somewhere. Thinking all I can really do is try to sort my job out for a start and try to accomplish more in my free time. Then maybe there won't be as much insecurities to show. And I'd actually connect with someone and so believe I can ask them out. I'll never be able to ask someone out literally as soon as I meet them. What I'm hoping is the rare cases I connect with someone to some extent who is single will get common enough that maybe I'll be able to ask some of them out and maybe one will say yes. That's why I'm so worried about diminishing opportunities as I get older. If instead those cases get even rarer then I stand no chance. I have 50% control over this. I can keep going to what I'm going to. Hopefully add something else if I see something interesting but I have low energy and trying to somehow finish private projects also mean a lot to me and, like LonelyForeigner said early on, you have to genuinely want to go to these things so overall there is very much a limit. But what you can do? I'll do what I can and try not to dwell on passing time or consider it, like you said, too bad if it doesn't happen. @Sophy I've just read your kind words about me coming back to the thread! Thanks so much! That means a lot! I nearly didn't. I even switched off notifications.
  3. @Sophy Thanks! In case you're wondering the last comment I made which seems to ignore you - I just wrote it before you replied. I'm about to respond to one or two things you said just now. But thanks that's more the encouragement I was hoping for 🙂
  4. Actually I've just read through my first posts here and realise I misrepresented them a bit. The whole sense of urgency combined with not being able to do anything right now was only part of it - there was also all the stuff about where to meet people and I did take that on board. Still feel that after 30 there just aren't enough single people around unless you are super social and can go to something every day or use avenues specifically designed to meet people like online dating and if those are hopeless that's really depressing. It's one of the few places I have at least had a little bit of success with. And that feeds into the whole "crap I need to solve this now!" feeling as every year they'll be less and less people who aren't taken. People get divorced but I'd imagine a divorced person would just see someone like me (even after I've fixed myself) as a sort of child. And they'd have a point too. The number of people with a life story at least compatible enough for us to relate on the same level will drop to zero.
  5. It's not. Everyone is completely misinterpreting everything I said. I was angry at reading stuff in various places about how shy passive guys are either inferior or a******s. That's what I was angry at. People of both genders SAYING shy guys are awful. Not at women for not wanting to date them. Women, like everyone, can date whoever they want and I never said I was entitled to anything. In fact if you look back to an earlier post I said I'm not even trying to date right now. I'm fully aware I've got issues which I am working hard to resolve. I know I need to sort myself out and never tried to deny it. But everyone is putting words into my mouth making me look like I'm someone I'm not. I admit I shouldn't have made the last post I made. It was a direct response to that article I saw as saying shy guys are the worst thing ever. I'm in a mess right now, if I was in a better place I would have interpreted it as an advice piece. My rant was about that and not a response to being rejected or anything. Believe it or not I don't react badly to being rejected. But the amount of stuff I've read lately that seems to attack shy guys is the problem - not anyone's dating preference. Anyway, I'm sorry for the last post I made as I can see how it came across badly. But moving on from that. Look at my other posts. Basically I came to this thread just getting some stuff off my chest about how I don't really know what to do as I feel simultaneously too old and too inexperienced for my age to spend any length time trying to fix myself while also being aware that I need to fix myself. I now realise what I need to do on that front is to just ignore the "too old and too inexperienced" bit and hope I can enter the dating game at 35 or 40, whatever. It'll be an uphill struggle with low odds of success but no point dwelling on it now. TBH what I really wanted was someone to tell me I was wrong and that I wouldn't be beyond hope if I have to enter the dating game from virtually nothing at 40. Yes I know I didn't make that clear and it's not someone else's job to tell me that but isn't that why I lots of folk come to this forum? The reason I persisted in this thread and started to get more aggressive was because I thought Lonelyforeigner was basically saying guys are a******s for being shy. Please tell I misinterpreted that. Basically I am fully aware that you can't expect anything if you don't make your feelings obvious. I know that, and if I at some point do meet someone and feel in a position to make a move I hope I am able to do so. I mean I've been fighting crippling shyness all my life so I might not succeed. I'd try. I'm really trying to gain some confidence and I'm in therapy but it's not an overnight fix. Surely people in this forum more than anywhere else would understand that? But I might well end up again wishing I could ask someone out and not managing to do so. I know this won't lead to success. But... this is the crucial thing... If I try and try to ask someone out and don't summon the courage then I am not trying to manipulate her! I am trying to ask her out just not succeeding! I know this isn't a good thing but it is not manipulation and not being an a******! (the "her" in this case is hypothetical - like I said I'm not even in a place to try right now). tl;dr: I never said I'm entitled to anyone. I'm angry at things people have said rather than being rejected or women in general. Sorry I went too far with that one rant but you are still putting words into my mouth. Being shy is definitely something you should work on but it doesn't make you an a******.
  6. The great irony is if you are a male with low self esteem you are supposed to hate yourself as males with low self esteem are utterly pathetic and unlikeable let alone loveable yet somehow you simultaneously have to stop hating yourself in order to change. Another ****ing catch-22. One advantage women have is it doesn't matter how much they screw up - they'll never be part of the single lowest, most unlikeable, most worthless group in society - the wimpish, cowardly, low self esteem, passive male.
  7. Here's an article in which the author says that spineless cowardly little wimps are the lowest form of life on earth and should just **** themselves. Utterly worthless. Not men at all. Not humans. Without any value. Pathetic losers: "No More Mr. Nice Guy" on doctornerdlove He doesn't use those exact words. What I wrote above is more of a summary of his key points. He's right though. His views are objectively correct and shared by the entirety of society. 100%. Now there is one caveat here. Virtually all boys who act this way are in their teens and early 20s. They pretty much all get a grip, man up and sort themselves out before they hit 25. If you are still like this in your 30s then wow. And this is me. I'm not just an example I'm the most extreme example on earth. I was too far gone, too far behind, too old, way way way too extreme an example and too late to fixed things now. So I had a choice. Either **** myself or, in my mind, it was possible to retain a little dignity by removing myself entirely from the world of dating. Pretend to be someone who has chosen a celibate life. I was wrong. Looks like I've only got one option then.
  8. Well, what exactly are you supposed to do then? You meet someone you're attracted to. If you find someone attractive you're single and they're single then you want to date them. Without the presence of an off switch preventing you from wanting to date them you're already doomed to be creepy. You could ask them out straightaway and undoubtedly get it wrong = creepy. Not to mention the confidence this needs. But if you take any time building up the courage to ask them out then you are becoming friends with someone you want to date = creepy. You could avoid them and shun then, being careful not to do anything which could be seen as "friendly" as if you do you are suddenly being dishonest. Guess I have to be avoiding and shunning everyone I find attractive then. Maybe you're expected to avoid and shun them and then, when you've build up the courage you return and ask them out! I'm being sarcastic as that is clearly ridiculous but if you're not allowed to become friends with someone you want to ask out then that seems the natural conclusion. You are expected not to choose someone purely based on looks, to choose someone based on personality but if you're attracted you want to date them so you're not allowed to give yourself a chance to find out more about them as then you have "ulterior motives"! And what about when you're not in the place in life where you reasonably can date. Desire is not attached to logic. If you know you can't date then you don't suddenly stop WANTING to date someone you are attracted to. It also doesn't stop the thought "I hope I can get better, get comfortable enough with myself to ask miss X out on a date" i.e. it doesn't stop you having vague plans in the future to ask them out. So, again, do you have to shun miss X? Seeing as you can't be friends with her if you have any thoughts of dating her otherwise you're creepy. I guess you need to build the social skills first to read the signs straight away. But the only way to build those skills is through practise. So you have to socialise and risk meeting people you're attracted to while you're building those skills. It's a paradox! So can we please just stop pretending the word "creepy" is used for things guys like me actually have control over! You have to keep on finding more activities to go to in order to build your social life (Given most people over 30 are married exactly how many social circles would you have to work through to find one which isn't?) to get dates but you're not allowed to do activities in order to build your social life to get dates! You have to somehow magic up enthusiasm for an increasing range of social activities and somehow switch off thinking about dating. And that's how you get dates. You see this is why I gave up. I wrote a post here months back saying I'd given up - how do I now be happy as a single guy - and I was told that even that was wrong as giving up makes you an "MGTOW" which is itself a bad creepy thing! It's amazing! YOU REALLY CAN'T WIN!! If you are a guy who is unlucky enough to have poor social skills who isn't aromantic and asexual you are creepy no matter what you do. No matter how hard you work to improve those skills. The world just hates awkward guys while simultaneously telling us we have to somehow find it in ourselves not to hate ourselves in order to change our situation. Another paradox.
  9. It's all moot anyway. Chances are I'm gonna quit this job I hate and move out the country anyway. I just don't want to live with the knowledge I'm almost to never go on another date as long as I live anymore.
  10. There's pretty much only one regular activity now and yes I'm definitely passionate about it. Clearly I can't join another though until I discover something else that is a group based activity that I really want to learn or do. And there isn't anything. I have a hard enough time finding motivation for solo projects. For meetup groups it was just to meet women - why else would anyone want to have dinner with 20 strangers? There aren't many interesting activity ones in my area and even when there are how I help checking to see if the list contains any women in my age group? You're expected to find an off button on your intentions or summon genuine interest in god knows how many activities from nowhere despite depression. That's supposed to give you a chance and yet at the same time you're not allowed to actually want it to give you a chance. While at the same time you're not allowed to use avenues which actually are supposed to be for dating (like online dating). Damned if you do, damned if you don't - this advice clearly came from people who don't know complete datelessness and so must realise at some level that there odds of never meeting anyone ever again are pretty low. (i.e. vast majority of the population). Their situation gives you more leeway to "just let it happen". Also - coming on too soon makes you creepy and yet trying to build a friendship first makes you a "nice guy TM" which is apparently even creepier. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I suspect that's marriage rate and doesn't include people in other relationships. I've tried to switch off "ulterior motives" but guess what. If you want to find someone to date you want to find someone to date. There's no off button on motivations. And "creepy" is my least favourite word in the English language. These days it's solely used by those lucky enough to have social skills and good mental health to shame those (especially men) who aren't. Well after all those years fixing the social mistakes I know about I'm still not likeable enough in my 30s then it really is game over. I mean there's been social activities for the whole group and partners but no random friends that I've gone to. And I've been invited to house parties from a late 30s married with kids guy for all his other late 30s, 40s, 50s old married with kids friends (and their kids). Seriously, I find it hard motivating myself for any social activity, it's hard enough being the 7th wheel for genuine close friends. Looking through a list of participants on facebook and every single profile photo is with a kid and a partner and every single response is along the lines "Somes fun! Sure we can make it!" with the 1st person plural pronoun and sometimes followed by "can the kids come to?". Honestly I know you're expected to find motivation to do social things but there's only so much you can find. I doubt any of them having single friends anyway (and there I go again - wanting to do something for the getting dates motivation. Time is running out so much for me I can't just switch it off!)
  11. You're not supposed to meet people at bars. You're not supposed to meet people at work. You're not even supposed to meet people in online dating(!!!!) I'm not going to approach people at the library/grocery store whatever. That's what crazy people do. Or at least people I do not like and practically on the exact opposite of human personalities to me. And what happens if you join a club or activity or volunteer? 10-20 people. The same 10-20 people every week so it's not like a constant stream of new people. Always a fair few retired people and students. Maybe 3 or 4 people in your age bracket and desired gender. Now, consider that apparently around 99% of the population over 30 is in a relationship from what I've seen. Half of those who aren't are divorcees with children. From their point of view a man who has barely dated is basically a child himself that they have nothing in common with. Exactly how many of these activities do you even need to go to to meet one eligible single let alone someone who you have a connection with let alone mutual attraction let alone not gonna rule you out for some superficial reason? Especially when you're so weird and lacking in social skills you connect with about 1 in every 1000 people to begin with. And yet the only activities where there are any number of actual single people are not recommended! It's statements like these, that make me think that normal people, the 99.99% of the population who can date, live in a completely different parallel universe to us 0.001% who can't. Sorry for being curt, it's just something that confuses me. Maybe the 99.99% somehow form close bonds with everyone around them who isn't a single right gender right age person and eventually get introduced to anyone else who is a single right gender right age person who happens to exist anywhere in some mysterious 20 link deep social network. I don't know. I have corrected all the awful social skills I had growing up. I don't see any visible signs of people not wanting me around. So in theory I should be in these networks. If that is how it works. I don't know. Normal people confuse me. And it's frustrating saying you're better off not in a relationship. Suggesting we can't handle being single, can't feel complete. It's not even being single now that's the problem. It's the long term that's the problem. Growing old completely alone. Not 5 years of no dates but 40 years, 60 years. Nothing to look to forward to. Just getting older. I grew up imagining wife and kids like everyone else. Someone I'm the only one I know who hasn't managed it. And I'll never manage it. Everyone chooses it in the end. People go through a ton of bad relationships and yet for some reason out of the 30 mostly 40y.o. + people in my workplace virtually every single one clearly still opted for the relationship route. And everyone I know in every other social setting too. And yet people still tell me they aren't worth it. They may be hard but everyone clearly shares the belief in the long run they're better than dying alone. It's not just for self esteem or because it's the done thing. Loneliness is very real and we need human companionship. I'm in an impossible situation. Too messed up to date now but its now or never. Waiting seems like a luxury reserved for people who aren't in their 30s with an entire dating history that doesn't even reach 6 months in total. It's now or never for me. If my odds feel like 1000 to 1 at 32 how can I expect to meet someone when I'm 40?! I don't meet women's standards now. My lack of experience will be a red flag to everyone now. The dating market is super sparse as I've said now. In a decades time? Not to mention as I'm about to say, the plan of ignoring it and fixing the rest of myself just doesn't seem to work. I've done tons of therapy. The precipice of growing old alone is too real and ever present. I've actually tried to go down the "relationships aren't worth it" route an awful lot in the past few years. First I said "I'll ignore them for now, sort my self out, deal with them later". But my mind just ended up filling me with the thoughts that I'd be in an even worse situation later. And so I changed my mental strategy to "Ok I'll just accept I'll be alone for life. Learn to deal with it". I REALLY REALLY REALLY tried to force that mindset on me. Tried to ignore love and intimacy. Desperate, so desperate that as this was my fate I MUST learn to live with it! Somehow! But ultimately trying to think that just doesn't work. It's impossible to ignore relationships. My mind can't do it. There have been times when I've started to accept it and then some crush has turned up with a boyfriend. Love really is all around you. It's impossible even to find a social situation where you aren't a friggen 7th or 15th or 33rd wheel. And that I can't cope with. I know I should be able to. I can on individual occasions but I can't cope with a whole life spent as a 15th wheel.
  12. @Sophy Thanks for believing I'm not undateable. But this: ... just proves just how much of a different species I really am. In fact scratch what I said about how maybe I'd stand a chance if I had gained the social skills I have now 10 years earlier. Honestly, I don't think I even fully appreciate the full scale of just how incompatible with humanity I really truly am. The fact that humans, every human, don't even need to date but just use the part of their brain and mysterious magic that doesn't even exist in me to form connections that are beyond even my comprehension just gives me some inkling of how abnormal I really still am. No, somehow I have to figure out how to cope with growing old alone. It's the only way. I just can't cope no matter how hard I try do it! I just can't! I can't ignore love and companionship! I just can't! How do I train my mind to cope with it? Not to mention that growing old alone inevitably leads to no friends either in the end.
  13. Well... guess what. I can't do it. It's impossible. It's beyond me. In the past few months I tried and tried and tried and tried just to live, take my therapy seriously, improve my self esteem, not dwell on the future and solve my various life problems and regard growing old alone as not such a big deal. And I do make progress sometimes. Small steps. Like managing to avoid the internet and being productive for a few days or getting a bit more exercise than usual, going to meetup groups whatever. But I only get so far before I come crashing back. And trying to work out why I only get so far while ignoring the growing old alone thing is basically ignoring the elephant in the room. It won't go away. Like it or not the only way older single people survive in a society 100% about love and family and relationships is because they occasionally date and still have hope. No one can grow old without at least that. Our society and nature doesn't allow it. Now the only social circle I ever felt true happiness in has become just yet another ****ing couples + me scenario and I can't pretend any more that I can just grow up and learn to enjoy my friends company without (internally) being bitter and hating it. The stupid thing is I do have much more social skills than I had in my 20s. Which isn't saying much - I was the worst kind of neckbeard weirdo back then. But if I was where I am now mentally 10 years ago maybe I would have stood a chance. But now I finally break free from the neckbeard weirdo phase only to find I'm too late and missed the boat.
  14. I wish I was dead. I really really really ****ing wish I was dead.
  15. Yeah this does just bother me so much just because I've messed up the rest of my world - career, hobbies even basic living. The only stable thing was this group. Everything collapsing around me makes me selfish I guess. The immediate plan I need to make is to not waste every second of my life on the internet. Other stuff you've said will only be possible if achieve that objective. But seeing as that's been my solemn promise to myself every day for about the past god knows how much years and I haven't succeeded yet (in fact I've got worse) it seems a bit of an empty promise. As for the meeting itself. Well she seemed a decent person and I was on my best behaviour, managing to put on my best face to be as jolly and sociable as I would be without these thoughts (although I'm always awkward around new people anyway). So haven't sabotaged things at least I guess yet. Although now I'm dreading the next meet up. I can't go on dreading meet ups and pretending not to, trying to force myself to be a normal person happy for my friends like everyone else would be for the rest of my life. Hiding everyday how I'm becoming ever more isolated and bitter. This was the one group where I never had to wear a mask. Something has to change. I need out. Just in general - career, society, everything. I feel like I need to get out of Britain for a start. Thanks for your support.
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