mmoose

Remembering the past is a double edged blade. We cannot learn if we completely forget the past. But we cannot wallow either. Learn what you can and move on. Be better for it. It sounds like WhyAreWeHere is learning self-respect. Great. Some anger seems normal and appropriate when reflecting upon the past experiences. Is this anger going to consume you? Or, can you grow? move past the past and be better in the future. Or, do you let the actions of others, no matter how wrong or how long ago, continue to dominate your present and future? Isn't life about learning and doing better the next time? Well, that and catching pokemon... But yes, we all have different levels of digging to do in our past in order to learn or understand. And some things seem to not be a "get over it" ever. And yes, sometimes 'forgetfulness' is the most important skill we can use. (different from repressing, which I employ frequent and often...forget? never! those grudges don't hold themselves)

yep. In today's society (especially online) it seems that loud = right. Quiet thoughtful reflection loses out on the moment to another loud voice. But, in the right settings, we quiet thoughtfuls can still say important things. (yes, I have fun playing around in this area. When I say something important and very contradictory to the loud ones, those that know me know to listen to everything I say in such times as i don't play the loud game and if I speak in such situations at all, they know it's worth listening to. Or, if i am directly contradicting someone, the whispered callout tends to get everyone's attention, change the tone and thought patterns. )

I like the idea. Certain substances are outlawed for silly reasons. Others are controlled for very specific reasons. But if there is a substance that can help us remove our inhibitions in a controlled theraputic setting with a highly trained professional monitoring and directing...why can't this be a tool for some mental illnesses? But, the "drugs are bad" brainwashed are brainwashed. "drugs" includes asprin, caffeine, heart medications etc... drugs have effects (good and bad). So I was glad to hear a couple years ago that some substances have been "allowed" clinical trails. But I should be clear, there is a great difference between a "clinical setting with a professional" and finding some illegal substance on the street somewhere and trying to self medicate. (even known alcohol self medicating usually goes wrong eventually, right?) If my doc suggested a clinical setting using a psychedelic with a qualified specialized therepist, I would consider. (sometimes we are the biggest obstacle to making progress in our own therapy) I would hope to have some good questions to ask before making a decision. And likely would have to time the sessions so that the rest of the day and the next day there was nothing else planned etc....(like a big dentist appt, gotta schedule it right) Glad it was a positive experience for you Gandolfication!

and now we know that Lindsey has been involved with tragic personal issues.

Personally, I like spam. Fried up just right it is a wonderful juicy crunchy treat. It is a shame that "spam" is used for unwanted things. If you were asking about why some one would flood a generally public website with "advertisements" (honest or not), let me be the first to welcome you to The Internet... Why has something not been done? Where are the moderators in this? I expect the better question would use "Administrator" instead of moderator (with the bit of computers I know) Well, this is not a publicly traded multi-billion $ company. This is a small site. And from what I have seen, most moderators (and Admins) are volunteer. I tend to have patience when asking volunteers for things. Of course, most of the websites I have visited over the last 25 years, it goes like this: person 1: why no action on XXXX someone representing the website: are you volunteering to offer your services ? person 1: no... someone representing the website: ok. There is an old saying on the web, "be the change you want to see in the world" So, if anyone has skills and time, please offer them to any of the moderators (or user Lindsey) It could be that the current activity is newish and to defeat it, the software needs a major upgrade. If the current purse does not have the $, then we try to work around.

That sounds very similar to how I was at work. Well, years ago. But, I went another direction. I enjoyed training others and watching them grow (you might also). I was not better. Maybe had luckier background due to random circumstances. (almost all of them had better grades etc...but then, grades to not directly translate to business anyway) I would occasionally host stuff. New Manager came in. Wanted to make them feel welcome so I invited the team to my house for a cook out. I did not view this as "social" My responsibility within the team maybe (pressure!). But I did this more in a "set the stage and let people interact outside of work" than to be a social occasion (and certainly not a social occasion ABOUT ME). After things got started, i faded into the background (where i belong and operate better) Is there some "social" thing that can be done that you could start and join, but not have to carry the event? Just going out to lunch on a Friday instead of everyone eating in...can be enough. And you don't have to carry the work persona of being "the go to guy!" during that. It might take off some pressure. I know I sometimes need to just be a fallible human and take off the other personas I have to wear at work. Is this a contradiction? I would see it as "different roles" in different situations. And I am comfortable being the moreon in a social group. (but, that can take a lot of trust or time to build) Maybe I compartmentalize alot. Being an expert in one thing does not make one an expert on everything in life across all areas. Letting others be an expert in other things is a healthy thing. (and takes pressure off of me) And when I show how moreon I am about something, just shows me as a human (which sometimes, helps with communications. A new hire might not feel comfortable coming to you with questions if you are "too important".) I think you understand the big thing. No alcohol. And yes, that would rule out an after work "happy hour" where a lot of stress and pressure gets vented, a lot of networking occurs etc. any of that make sense? Or is my past experience "unique" and unhelpful?

Hi BBWolf, Old friends are great. Especially when they stand the test of time. On the other hand, old "ex's" can be a different story. Some time and space helps. Sometimes, the more space the better. So what are your concerns? It is wonderful to be concerned for our fellow human beings. It is great to be a supportive friend. It can be troublesome for those with 'too much empathy' as we might not be able to disconnect appropriately. But I don't think that you are helpless here. Sure, you might not be able to cure cancer (well, even if you are an oncologist, youda already cured and we'd all know...) but you can help in certain ways. Helping her mother with small chores could put your 'friend's mind at ease. Some positive words of encouragement. To protect ourselves, I'd guess I would try to find some boundary in there somewhere though. Otherwise, I am a bit burned out on 'feeling bad for others'. Emotional exhaustion is a thing. And we need to protect ourselves so we can help others also. Give what you can, but don't give everything. Or, maybe, this anxiety is not for her. Maybe this is one of those reminders that we are all getting older and you are confronting some of your mortality. (And then to get it even more involved, if you are confronting your own thoughts, feeling bad that you're making it about you instead of them....? sorry, detour.) Keep talking. Write it out to see if something specific pops out of the subconscious.

Contradictions are the BEST! So fun to think about. I enjoy a good paradox. Ok, fine, less enjoyment when it is about me. But still, paradoxes are great to play with. Generalizations are general. It is easy to generalize "everybody" from a couple of interactions with some bad people. I know I need to cut down on the interactions with the bad people and spend more time with good people. But the older I get, the worse others get. (no, not here of course, you guys are my peeps!) Lately, I've been considering the differences between: Introvert vs anti-social vs misanthropy vs "loner" vs hermit. Introvert/extrovert is where we get "energy". Well, that really depends upon who the other person is. The manipulative dishonest people take energy out of me. Friends can give me energy. So I'm just anti-social? Well that depends on the ""social", which is also people...just grouped by some commonality? So then it depends upon that commonality I think. If I am interested in something, and there is a social gathering centered about that something, I can put up with it. (maybe) Otherwise, no. Misanthropy, I don't fit into society. Well, I don't feel like that. But then, that depends upon our experiences and history and perspectives etc. So, we need to keep searching for better matching people? And on and on and on. (and my opinions/descriptions will likely change tomorrow...) But on the other hand, a pandemic and 'isolating' has not been the worse thing. Or maybe I am getting used to not being forced to be around others. "I view myself as better than most other people." Oh, this one is always fun! Personally, I have not met 4 billion people (of the current 8B on the planet) to be able to judge the "most people" thing. Because, this comparison is really relative, but commonly viewed as an absolute (isn't that contradictory?) Just ignoring the "most people" part, how do I feel about myself, well that can vary day to day between extremes. (probably for most of us here) Welcome to the forums. Keep going. (I feel like I should be should be make a Monty Python Holy Grail reference here...I HAVE been to Norway, but no moose bit my sister)

Alone together. There is no one else that can. Words are easy. Actions are hard. Fail. A lot there that is true. And a lot that could be turned inside out. (I know words that are hard and actions that are easy, I bet we all do) But yes, in the end, I think we are the only ones that can help ourselves. Sure, there are others (friends, family, strangers on the interwebz) that can help us. But if we do not want help, we do not want to change, do not want to listen etc, no one can make us. Even with other's helping it can still be hard or impossible for us to change sometimes. Every now and then, I think of a comic book hero. What would they do for mental health? nothing. (If I were Clark Kent, there is a limit to the number of times I would save Lois Lane from falling off the building. At some point, you gotta tell her to stop going up to the roof because she keeps falling off. And yes, some people will purposely jump off a tall building if they have a friend to catch them, just to get that attention. Sure, not all Lois' fault, but at some point...) When we bottom out, or get good and motivated, real meaningful change can happen. But we can still get some guidance from others. What would you say? 99% our actions and 1% help from others? 95/5? 90/10? I think, at some point too much help from others means we are not changing ourselves. Or, we become dependent upon those others and stop trying ourselves. Most think that giving up is easy. I think it is quite hard. And there certainly are degrees of "fail". We can fail, learn and try again. A lot of things in life need a lot of learning! The only real failure is not trying at all (I'm sure that is a quote from someone much wiser than I, but don't remember who) It's not a failure to use tools, therapists, friends etc, as some change might be to fix our blindspots....which we are blind to. (but you seem to have a fair handle on most of this already)

Can you delegate? When it comes to shopping, maybe others can pick stuff up for you. When it comes time for decoration, maybe the grandkids will take direction. More interactive and "together" that way. Cooking? tell some to bring, direct some to cook in your kitchen. Get a comfy chair so you can watch (and correct them on what they are doing wrong!) I'd rather have someone help that way. Tell me which decorations you want where and I can throw stuff all over the place. And if I get tired of being told that is not how it's done, well, I can walk away with the best of them!

Life is full of mistakes. The wise will look at what you learned from the mistake. Scientific method could be described as an iteration of failures until it is not. Take a deep breath. You are taking responsibility (one way or the other...) which is more than most business executives ever do (I joke....) Finish school. Earn the degree. And you will have earned it. Sure, you may not get the highest honors...or maybe not even first pick of job or first grad school. This is how we learn, and that is ok. But please do not go all mad scientist on us. Humanity is destroying the earth fast enough without another supervillian trying on purpose (yes, another jest. Humor is tragedy plus time, right? Maybe not enough time has past. Yet.)

Early on, I was shown the concept of "total cost of ownership". Sure, initial purchase price was what most looked at. But some things cost more to maintain than the initial purchase price. Not that that helps me too much (currently struggling with a "what to do" in that area...) But sometimes, I do stop and ask myself "sure, I can afford to buy this or that...but am I willing to maintain them? spend the $ on storage, maintenance etc?" And most of the time, it helps me get over an "impulse" and settle on solid long term decisions. It sounds like you understand the concept here, see the right questions about long term commitment and have the right concerns. I suspect that the story is more complicated than that of course... But with only what was written, I personally would keep looking around. But we are all different. Don't listen to me, I have (in the past) purchased things that are a multi-year commitment just so I have that reason to go into work and resist the "but I should retire"...if I gots bills to pay, I cannot afford to think about freedom. Willing slave?

I think that there are lot of reasons. Ever watch old Star Trek? Vulcans? Spock? Their nature is very passionate and they have to focus on logic as a distraction. When they hit "mating season", well, yea. Some stoics are stoics because their nature has to be controlled. Stoic is their acceptable way to interact with society. But, generalizations are general. We are all different people and should not be generalized. So, Gando, you had a good weekend and then bounced back to the other end of the extreme, dwelling the thoughts on the negative. I can respect that. Most would stay in the positive and keep escaping there to the point of destruction. But, isn't it hard to live there doing that? Why not a nice balance of "that weekend was good, hope the week continues and it helps with ..." I mean, where you are right now, it's not like everything is going to turn up roses and unicorns are going to show up farting springtime right away. It is going to take time to rebuild. I bet your head knows this... heart maybe not. So, why the impatience? I mean, I can understand, after a great weekend and maybe envisioning a future with someone etc, realizing that you are starting over from (near zero) and then some ?shame? about that etc etc. Patience and balance to move forward. The 'bouncing between extremes' is so destructive. 'two steps forward, one back' I can handle. A mile forward, a mile backward, I cannot handle that (would likely make more mistakes going backwards a mile and end up making it two miles...) In the 'self sabotage' world, where does this fit in? was the weekend too good and you thought you did not deserve something that good, so 'time to punish myself!' ? (which I respect also, but not it's still not healthy...) mm

There is a lot in there, for sure. Identity, motivation, perceptions, perfectionism, vacillation. Almost too much without breaking it down and then replying with a wall of words. Relate to it? Sure, most of it. My childhood friends would never describe me as a perfectionist. Homework was to be done fast and good enough to turn in. There were other better things to be doing in life. But after graduation and starting work, a certain amount of "it has to be right" (I would not call it perfectionism) is there. And of course, that is enough to self torture over. Never good enough Chasing the dragon? Sure, mostly used to describe a drug usage, but it still fits. Dragons come in all sorts of forms and colors. We all have our own. Thing that are to be chased but can never be caught. (although I swear I have come close and will catch it someday!) Like "a dog chasing a car", what are we going to do with it once we catch it? (Find a new one to chase of course) But that is not to say that dragon chasing is pointless. If we are not chasing a dragon, what are we doing? Dragon chasing gives a purpose. If we have no bigger better purpose, then that dragon better beware, it's in my sights! I had to look up "vacillate vs oscillate". I agree that vacillate is likely the better term for us here. An unsteady rhythm..yea. Swing from chasing one dragon to another. Or, lose all motivation and chase nothing for a while. And then get bored, look around for a dragon to chase and just start chasing it because bored of bored. I know I don't need to be perfect. I know that I do not even need to be "happy". I do not need to be highly accomplished. Sure, in some things, in some ways I am already highly accomplished. But I'm just working the job for the paycheck. I do not need to work up the ladder. I do not need to drive the business. It's just a paycheck. If I knew what I wanted to do when I grow up, I'd be off doing that already. I can accept that I have not figured out some big purpose in life. If others have, good for them. Old saying "a bitching sailor is a happy sailor" Maybe we are only happy when we are miserable. Maybe misery is our comfort zone and we chose not to leave. Or maybe we chose, but cannot find the direction out and falling back to our misery is comfortable. "Happy" is not as easy for some of us. For those where it is easy for them, good for them. (and they can shut up about it) make any sense?

"Hope" is an interesting word. To me, it's a four letter word. "Hope" by itself means nothing. But I understand that others need this over-generalized thing in some way... Can you break down this term into something more specific?

Well, if you want to be a mom, and cannot, and someone brings it up... maybe guilt is not the word. But it did not help you. Insensitive may be a description. Certainly not helping you feel better about yourself. But if you have not shared that with her, maybe she does not have awareness that it can really hurt when someone says certain things.

sounds like a microcosm here. I was going to say "tell your mother that she is a mother and "grand" to you, so in a way..." But...no. It is one thing to 'want'. It is another to guilt someone else into providing a want. What does she think she is going by moping around on this topic? Does she think that this is help YOU? Or is this an act of selfishness (selfish regret). If she is all about her, I can take some guesses on why her children might not have turned out to be paragons of health. Talk about "deserve". But, life is not about deserving. Not in the ways people think. The petty person in me says "buy her a cat, call it 'grandkid'" and let it sink in...

Adding some thoughts. Thanks Lindsay for the reminder of the ToS. Yes, search engines will crawl here. Yes, it would be nice if they would not. But, it's how they make their $. So... Be careful about your user name and posting identifying information. (General to any website and life in general!) I would suggest to use a new user name that you do not use on any other site or email. Occasionally, we see someone join and give a FirstName_LastName user name. When I see this, I warn that this might be a bad idea. In the past, some users have requested a change of user name so that their posts are less identifying to them in the real world. But I would not depend upon this as the Administrative staff on a free website may be already overworked. I have seen "new" users with a first post of "I created a new user name that is less able to identify me, so I am not a first time poster. PM me if you want to request my old user name..." which is helpful for maintaining personal connections between friends. If you are still concerned about searches, consider the blogs. You can create a blog and keep it "private". You can maintain a list of which users are authorized to read. I would suggest only setting those users who are actively reading/writing blogs (blogging seems to be very under utilized here) Or, consider getting to know some posters in the forum...then ask if they would read your blog and add them after they agree. The best experience I have had here is because we got a group of 8 or so posters all blogging and commenting on each other's blogs. (it took a while to get going) I like the organization of blogs better anyway. My blog is about me. Your blog is about you. Easy to keep the conversation on track depending upon which blog you are in! But to each their own. (I still keep in touch with one of my blog buddies over 10 years later) Opening this up to other posters that have been here for a while, other tips? What works for you? What does not work? What are your thoughts on privacy? And of course, if you start blog and make it private, feel free to add me to your list. I do try to comment and ask questions (really I do, but sometimes... you know, I'm here for a reason too...)

Thinking about this a bit. "Socially rewarding" I might have known what that was once upon a time. Maybe the fact that I do not understand "socially rewarding" is a problem. Or, maybe I just grew out of it. But I see no reward in social interaction. I've just seen too many horrible "people". Which is worse? Not being "social"? or being social with the wrong people? Then there is "social" vs feeling "connected" to something else (people, a person, a hobby, pets etc) which is similar but different of course. hm.

(been busy and not on this site for a bit) Sometimes, maybe we need to get out of what we think is important and our therapists can see that (or play with it) If you trust, trust. And, nothing is perfect of course. And, sometimes we need to learn which things are good to let go...and which things, if let go, get worse... I loved Herman's Head. Shame it was such a short run. And of course, to put a face on the voice of Lisa Simpson!! Personification of emotions, sure. But also the demonstration of the conflicts between them, pulling us in opposite directions etc. Things are complicated. (should be a cast of hundreds, not just those four. And, like it's easy to recognize the various things like it is as easy as recognizing a face.... Take that cast of hundreds and make them all wear the same costume)

Hi PM. Sorry you are back. Things got better for a while, and then.... Yes, this happens. And it's funny. When things get better, we stop doing those things that helped us get better. And then don't know what to do. "I've tried nothing..." I don't think that is true. You first tried therapy and other things that were positive changes. Good. Then you tried to change jobs, which did not work out quite as expected. But, you are trying! That is part of the journey. Try. And if it works out, alright. If it does not work out, we learn something for the next change. The more we learn, the better our "next idea" will be. It is ok to hate a job. It is ok to look for another (it takes time, right). It is ok to 'backslide' a bit and increase therapy or meds etc. It is ok to recover on the weekends. It is better for active recovery and not passive (sleeping all day or "doing nothing" etc) Sure, it might be hard to manage, but take advantage of the situation you wanted and try. It does not have to be a full weekend. Just start with one thing. Then one thing a day etc.

Hi G, I've seen your thoughtful posts over the years, but we have not overlapped much. I was hoping others would jump in with more responses. Stressed but coping. Busy, which is good. Keeping up, barely. Still getting worse, but should be getting better after the paperwork is finalized. Glad that only some things are getting worse and not everything getting worse. This is bad, but "tv show" Big Mouth ends up personifying some emotions. Depression Kitty, Shame Wizard and the positive one, the Gratitoad. So now I see 'gratitude' and think about the Gratitoad. Such a horrible show, but it is has something going on there with emotions personified. 'Living the dream' is a popular response. 'Living the dream, hoping it stops being the nightmare...' nah, that's too negative. 'Trying to help where I can' maybe that's good enough. The number thing is flawed also...we need a bit background for reference. "yesterday a 2, but today a 3" might be better reference. But again, we need to be careful about who we use this with. And when we can, show appreciation for them. Sounds like you recognize those people in your life are careful to not overwhelm them. mm

I think that everyone has been conditioned to answer "how are you" with "ok" no matter what. So, how to break out of that trained behavior? I have toyed with always answering with a number. A "1-10" scale. No, not for the 'typicals' that you pass in the hallway at work, but for people who understand already (like us here) Overwhelmed but not too miserable. Nice. Awareness, tolerance, some sense of where the limit is. I like it. Of course, some of us are only happy when we are miserable. I know people that I call "stress puppies", they are only happy if they are under a ton of stress. (Yea, I do it also. First step is recognition!) Some use it to get a lot done. Some like the supposed job security that it brings. Others just love to b!tch about stuff or use it to brag. "How are you?" is such a loaded question. Still looking for the hope, or "light at the end of the tunnel" isn't a bad response. What else do we have? I'm looking for more things like this myself. Sometimes, it's hard to find the words. Having some more responses like this could help us realize where we are. Back on topic...if the kids don't hate you, you're doing about as much as you can. It takes two to start a relationship, but only one to break it. Suffering thru, somedays, waiting for a better (or less conflicted) tomorrow is as good as we can do sometimes.

Sorry, I'm a bit different. I don't like attention. And I'm trying to limit exposure to people. Too many selfish or scammers out there. I'd guess I would start with making a number of aquaintences. Some of them might be interesting enough to try to be friends. And then after a while getting to know them (and not just what they say about themselves) then risk some deeper connection. To me, it is a process and a numbers game. And the "willing to invest in others before they invest in you" has diminishing returns usually. But, I am jaded. I would really do the opposite. Find the hobby or pasttime to invest your time in. Something that you find worthwhile by itself. (you've probably heard this a lot) If it happens to be something that others find interesting, then you have a chance to encounter others along the way (Some of my tastes are too different or Euro for the typical 'merican, but I accept that limitation) If you are have an interest or passion in something, it will show and sometimes that draws others in (sometimes, not in a good way) But even if others are not finding you, you can still enjoy something. Just focusing on suddenly jumping into a deep friendship is something that most might run away from. Too aggressive, too deep right away are red flags for me. Volunteer? (car probably rules that out. Got a bike? yes it can be harder to travel in the world made for cars, but bike are a wonder tool for many purposes. Just throwing some things out there. And again, I'm a cynic toward people and working on the misogyny and should not be listened to) m

I said "besides that"... oh well. So social media and church, people are not just showing the best, but everyone is perfectly happy with family, no fighting, not envy or any other problem? It is good that you are looking on the positive side of that. But I don't think you only see that, I would bet that you know that they are not perfect. Which is worse? having a friend that is manipulative or no friend at all? Or someone who gets to know you in depth and does not like what they see? Maybe it's time to change focus or just meet a lot of people and see if any are trusty enough to think about a deeper connection. Just some thoughts. I don't know your entire situation of course. But I know when I start running out of options, it's more a failure of my imagination on the subject and my perception than reality. If I actually met everyone on this planet and they all sucked, then I could draw that conclusion with confidence...otherwise I am jumping to conclusions.