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"you Need To Try Harder"


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#1 stories

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:36 PM

I am battling depression first and foremost, an eating disorder, and self-harm. I am told that I need to "try harder" to get better by a lot by the people in my life. I am trying. It may not seem like it or I may have slip-ups but I am trying. It is hard when for so long it has seemed like these disorders have defined me. It is scary to think of not having them.

I hate when people say I need to try harder or have more determination to get better. I am trying. It's not like I can just will myself out of it. I don't want to be depressed. It has taken everything from me. But it will take a lot more then willpower and wishes to rid myself of it. They don't know what it is like to live day in and day out with depression, how much it can weigh you down. Even my younger brother who knows depression and anxiety tells me that it doesn't seem like I am trying and I need to try harder.

How do I respond when people say this? I tell them I am trying but they don't see it as enough. It's not like I can always act fine around them. When I was acting, it was when no one knew I had depression because I kept it all inside. I can finally get help now that I've opened up, but this is the response I get. It is really frustrating. And it's not like I can just tell them, "I am trying. Stop saying I need to try harder. You don't get it and aren't taking my illness seriously enough to understand. So just stop." I can't do that, especially not to my younger brother.

Has anyone else dealt with this and have similar experiences to share?

Edited by stories, 08 September 2012 - 07:41 PM.


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I have too many disorders.

#2 dusk25

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:59 PM

My mom tells me I need to try harder a lot. It really hurts, because I am trying. She tells me I don't interact with my kids enough which is very disheartening. I wish I could offer a constructive way to respond, but I usually respond with anger and sadness.


#3 Epictetus

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:27 PM

Hi Stories,

This may sound shocking to you, but I think you may be trying too hard. Depression is linked to disease pathology in the brain; atrophy [wasting away]; up to 20% atrophy in the amygdala, up to 28% thinning of the cerebral cortex. THOSE ARE HUGE NUMBERS AND REPRESENT HUGE LOSES TO THE BRAIN.

And in way, depression is your brain's way of telling you something important, very important. If you stick your hand in a fire, you feel pain. The pain is not just something to overcome by trying harder. The pain is a way your body tells you: get your hand out of the fire now!

I think depression is your brain telling us something. It is a source of important information. It is making us sick to save us, to get us to the doctor's office, to medication and treatment.

Part of the treatment is "giving up" unrealistic expectations. Almost all familial and social expectations "presuppose" health. They "assume" health. But the assumption is hidden. For example, [if a blind man could see] he should be like those with vision. [If a paralytic could walk] he should exercise every day. All familial and social expectations, all these abstract ideals "assume" health: [IF I WASN'T SUFFERING ONE OF THE MOST BRUTAL BRAIN ILLNESSES KNOWN TO MANKIND] I "should" be the ideal son or daughter, I "should" be the ideal brother or sister, I "should" be the ideal friend, the ideal male or female, the ideal attractive person, the ideal employee, coworker or supervisor, the ideal student . . . even . . . even . . . the ideal "normal" person. But that's the point: I am not in good health. I am in very poor health.

I'm not going to tell Mr. Stevie Wonder that he should "try harder" to see. I'm not going to tell a paralytic woman to run the Boston Marathon, or climb Mount Everest or swim the English Channel. All these things "assume" health.

A brain in serious depression is suffering profound atrophy and brain cell death. It is suffering from unbelievable volumetric loss.

So I am going to say something different. I'm going to say: consider "not" trying harder. Consider being good to your brain. Consider going easier, not harder on yourself. Lower abstract unrealistic or perfectionistic ideals. Abandon abstract ideals that make you feel bad and are detriminetal to your mental health. Instead of beating up your brain for its "failures', try beating up abstract ideals that hurt your brain.

I know this sounds counter intuitive. But please consider it. I don't usually give good advice. And perhaps this isn't good advice. But at least consider it. Others here will probably give you advice that is more helpful. Depression is a cruel, vicious, brutal disease. You are an innocent victim of it. When others tell you to "try harder," they are knowingly or unknowingly, wittingly or unwittingly, making things worse. I hope you conquer your depression. I hope you eradicate its dark shadow over your life. All the best to you!!!

Edited by Ep1ctetus, 08 September 2012 - 08:31 PM.


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Mental Illness is a serious health condition not to be trifled with. It requires treatment by highly trained, experienced, qualified and Board-certified physicians, physician- specialists, and mental health professionals. There is no substitute for this professional care. I am not a mental health professional, only a fellow sufferer.

 

*All research is subject to limitations.  The findings of medical research in the field of depression are subject to validation, invalidation or reinterpretation based on many factors including:   reliability, objectivity, new discoveries, adherence to research ethics , as well as  other research studies, including more detailed studies, larger studies and longer term studies. 

"A man is really ethical when he obeys the constraint laid on him to help all life which he is able to help, and when he goes out of his way to avoid injuring anything living. He does not ask how far this or that life deserves compassion as valuable in itself, how far it is capable of feeling. To him, life itself is sacred. He shatters no ice crystal that sparkles in the sun, tears no leaf from its tree, breaks off no flower, and is careful not to crush any insect as he walks. If he works by lamplight on a summer evening, he prefers to keep the window shut and breathe stifling air rather than see insect after insect fall on his table with singed and sinking wings. If he goes out into the street after a rain storm and sees a worm which has strayed there, he reflects that it will surely dry up in the sunlight, if it does not quickly regain the damp soil into which it can creep, and so he helps it back to the lush grass. Should he pass an insect which has fallen into a pool, he spares the time to reach it a leaf or a stalk on which it may clamor and save itself. Animals suffer as much as we do. We must fight against the spirit of unconscious cruelty with which we treat the animals. " Dr. Albert Schweitzer.

"Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind." Dr. Albert Scheiweiter.


#4 ellemint

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:15 PM

I agree with what Ep1ctetus has so wisely stated.

I get the same comment from my family, and I have found there is no use in trying to persuade them that I am trying or start listing all the things I am doing to reduce depression. It doesn't work, and it just leaves me feeling in a one-down position.

It's like if you had cancer and your blood counts were low from chemo---no one would dare say "you're not trying" hard enough to raise your blood counts. But since others can't see the problems in brain function that might be going on you're attacked for the very symptoms that are causing you so much suffering.

hope someone else posts a good comeback or response to those hurtful comments.

take care,

ellemint

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#5 yesican

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:38 PM

I agree 100% with the other comments.
Perhaps when people say 'you need to try harder' you could respond with 'no, you need to stop judging me and either try to understand what depression is or keep your comments to yourself!'..sounds harsh I know..and easier said than done.
Personally, I have had to let go of a number of relationships that were hindering my path to wellness. I have let others opinions define me for too long, and I cared too much of what people thought.

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#6 lauralau

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:49 AM

I just see it as people want the best for you. If they are saying that, they're probably just really sorry to see you suffering so much and want to see you better. And you might get better. Please don't give up hope.


#7 apple_bloom

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:39 AM

Similarly is when someone gets frustrated with you and tells you that they "can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves."

Last I checked, I've started therapy and have been reading books on depression. I'm dealing with depression as well as health issues. Don't tell me I don't want to help myself just because I'm having a low moment and not responding to your half-*** attempts to help me feel better.

"I think hell is something you carry around with you. Not somewhere you go." -- Neil Gaiman

#8 WadeAlexander72

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:35 AM

People are so d*** irritating sometimes. Yeah, try harder alright. Funny how that often doesn't seem to apply to them when they have problems but you're expected to have motivation in droves.

People like that usually don't understand so pretty much anything you say will sadly be ignored or passed off as "not trying" so I just usually would say "yeah ok thanks" and move on.

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#9 Hope4theBest

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:43 AM

Many people have no clue of what pain depression can cause.

If someone starts in with "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" or " take a walk and you'll feel better", I know its time to never confide in that person ever again.

When I first started therapy my Dad said, in his day people went to work, ate and slept, and that is all life is supposeed to be. It makes a depressed person feel EVEN WORSE.
I was shamed and blamed for wanting help.

I wish there was some kind of public education out there on this. But until some stupid celeb like lindsay lohan starts talking about it, no one wants to understand.


I too am sick of the ignorance, OP. The only thing you can do is protect yourself and work in therapy, and not talk to people/supposed 'friends' who have no clue.

All they do is shame and blame, bcs they fear depression. A form of denial, imo.

IF YOU ARE LONELY WHEN YOU ARE ALONE , THEN YOU ARE IN BAD COMPANY
~Jean Paul Sartre

#10 WadeAlexander72

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:56 AM

Many people have no clue of what pain depression can cause.

If someone starts in with "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" or " take a walk and you'll feel better", I know its time to never confide in that person ever again.

When I first started therapy my Dad said, in his day people went to work, ate and slept, and that is all life is supposeed to be. It makes a depressed person feel EVEN WORSE.
I was shamed and blamed for wanting help.

I wish there was some kind of public education out there on this. But until some stupid celeb like lindsay lohan starts talking about it, no one wants to understand.


I too am sick of the ignorance, OP. The only thing you can do is protect yourself and work in therapy, and not talk to people/supposed 'friends' who have no clue.

All they do is shame and blame, bcs they fear depression. A form of denial, imo.



I can remember my grandmother once telling me that I should go out for a walk because the sunshine would make me feel better. Yeah, ok, that'll work.

I've always wished that we could somehow bottle this up and pass it on to others to try so they can get a temporary idea of what it's like. They'd change their tune pretty fast.

It would probably help matters if we all turned purple or something - that way people can "see" it, which is so much better since this is all obviously in our heads and we're nothing but a bunch of woe-is-me types.

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#11 Beautiful_Misery

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:32 PM

My sister is a psychologist and told me to "just snap out of it" the other day. :stare: Sometimes, people, particularly people that know us and are well-meaning, are full of s*** and have their heads up their *****. :smilingteeth: Actually Hope put it best when she said "All they do is shame and blame, bcs they fear depression. A form of denial, imo." Spot on if you ask me. If my sister knew that every day I think about buying a gun and just ******* blowing my brains out to end this nightmare, maybe she would keep her bulls*** advice to herself? Maybe. They WISH we could just snap out of it, or get over it, or try harder or whatever it is that their insensitive, selfish little brain is thinking would make this problem go away so they can go on with their happy little carefree lives.

Edited by Beautiful_Misery, 04 October 2012 - 12:34 PM.


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#12 Hope4theBest

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:38 PM

LOL. Wear a scarlet letter. because 'society' thinks we should be working a 70 hour work week instead of having a 'pity party'. I hate that stupid expression.

Yet society rewards narcissists and drama queens on 'reality' trash tv. Something is really wrong. And I dont think its us, just for having 'emotions'. perhaps we just have a more sensitive spirit, and aren't sociopaths.

:)

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IF YOU ARE LONELY WHEN YOU ARE ALONE , THEN YOU ARE IN BAD COMPANY
~Jean Paul Sartre

#13 Marie241

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:35 PM

I sometimes feel I am getting the same response or people do actually say nt to be so depressed. I was thinking about when I read your post. I have never tried but I think the next time it happens if it is someone I know I might try nt contradicting them I might say "it's not easy,one thing you could do to help would be.....
- Tell me I've done something well because when you are depressed you don't believe it
- call me once a week just to say hello
- perhaps we could set a date to go the cinema once a month
- help me to sort out my paperwork because it's not easy doing it when I feel low

Ive just thought of this so not saying it would work but abe I will give it a go. If they do any of this with me maybe I could mention just during conversation that if they are positive not judgmental it helps me more

I know this will not be easy because when I'm low I don't want to, but if I'm not just going to ignore them maybe I'll give it a go.

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#14 silenthunder

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:44 PM

I might say "it's not easy,one thing you could do to help would be.....
- Tell me I've done something well because when you are depressed you don't believe it
- call me once a week just to say hello
- perhaps we could set a date to go the cinema once a month
- help me to sort out my paperwork because it's not easy doing it when I feel low

Ive just thought of this so not saying it would work but abe I will give it a go. If they do any of this with me maybe I could mention just during conversation that if they are positive not judgmental it helps me more

I know this will not be easy because when I'm low I don't want to, but if I'm not just going to ignore them maybe I'll give it a go.


I think this is great stuff - I noticed a few others on this thread pointing out that some of the 'you should try harder' people may be genuinely concerned for us and really want to help us but just don't know how. They may even think they are ENCOURAGING us by telling us 'try harder' (the way a coach would) - its just not coming out of them in a very positive way.

Something I wanted to point out from my own battles with depression that I have noticed both in myself and other people with mental health issues. We often are trying - VERY HARD (and alot of this is done by worrying, and debating things within ourselves) - but sometimes we aren't trying DIFFERENT things

what do I mean? well - try doing something that you would not normally do, but that you think might help - if even a little. I think its pretty obvious to most of us that whatever we do isn't helping our depression - so 'do' something ELSE.

most people reading this are probably scoffing at those words right now - but what I mean is: get out of your comfort zone. discard the stuff going on in your head talking you out of doing 'stuff' and 'just do it'.

Marie241 just gave an example of what I'm talking about. I've been pushing myself to 'do' more different things - and I'm getting fairly good results with it

ST


#15 HRiddle

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

My sister is a psychologist and told me to "just snap out of it" the other day. :stare: Sometimes, people, particularly people that know us and are well-meaning, are full of s*** and have their heads up their *****. :smilingteeth: Actually Hope put it best when she said "All they do is shame and blame, bcs they fear depression. A form of denial, imo." Spot on if you ask me. If my sister knew that every day I think about buying a gun and just ******* blowing my brains out to end this nightmare, maybe she would keep her bulls*** advice to herself? Maybe. They WISH we could just snap out of it, or get over it, or try harder or whatever it is that their insensitive, selfish little brain is thinking would make this problem go away so they can go on with their happy little carefree lives.


I can't believe a psychologist said that...please tell me she's not a clinical psychologist?? Otherwise it's so disheartening that she said that...

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"How can I sleep, when I don't know whether I live or dream?
How can I weep, when I don't know if the pain I feel is real?"

#16 HRiddle

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:08 PM

Stories, after reading other people's comments, what I want to say is this: remember that people become depressed for different reasons and they also get out of depression in different ways. If one thing works for some people, it doesn't mean that it will work for you. Indeed, some people may get better when they "try hard", but it doesn't neccesarily mean that what you need is the same thing. If you have a deep underlying problem, it may take you years, even decades, to resolve it. If something in your past or some traumatic experience is bothering you, it is likely that you won't feel much better before you find the right way to deal with it. The people around you may see you as somebody who's simply exhausted and has little motivation, or they may think you have too much self pity and really ought to pull yourself together. What they don't see, however, is the tumor inside your heart, and what is causing you to behave the way you do. It takes one who has been there to understand how you feel, but unfortunately not everybody has (definitely not those around you who say such things to you).

In short, I think you should have a lot more self-compassion and give yourself the time and space to recover. It hurts to hear people talk to you that way when they don't understand a thing, but remember there are many of us here who do understand your experience.

Edited by HRiddle, 04 October 2012 - 08:09 PM.


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"How can I sleep, when I don't know whether I live or dream?
How can I weep, when I don't know if the pain I feel is real?"

#17 Beautiful_Misery

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:50 PM

I can't believe a psychologist said that...please tell me she's not a clinical psychologist?? Otherwise it's so disheartening that she said that...


Yes a clinical psychologist. Extremely intelligent and well educated, but she doesn't see me as clinically depressed. She thinks I make myself a victim so she thinks I'm just being lazy, unmotivated, or whatever BS thoughts are floating around in her BS brain. Today she told me I should "maybe try taking some meds, it helps for depression". Oh, no s***, it does????? -facepalm- What an a-hole. Basically my depression interrupts her perfect little life, so if I can just get over it so she can continue on problem-free, that'd be great.


#18 HRiddle

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:23 PM

Yes a clinical psychologist. Extremely intelligent and well educated, but she doesn't see me as clinically depressed. She thinks I make myself a victim so she thinks I'm just being lazy, unmotivated, or whatever BS thoughts are floating around in her BS brain. Today she told me I should "maybe try taking some meds, it helps for depression". Oh, no s***, it does????? -facepalm- What an a-hole. Basically my depression interrupts her perfect little life, so if I can just get over it so she can continue on problem-free, that'd be great.


Oh no...I'm so sorry you are going through this. I think I'm starting to understand why therapists are not allowed to treat family members/friends/people in their lives, because it does get so complicated and they can't help much.

"How can I sleep, when I don't know whether I live or dream?
How can I weep, when I don't know if the pain I feel is real?"

#19 Hope4theBest

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:38 PM


My sister is a psychologist and told me to "just snap out of it" the other day. :stare: Sometimes, people, particularly people that know us and are well-meaning, are full of s*** and have their heads up their *****. :smilingteeth: Actually Hope put it best when she said "All they do is shame and blame, bcs they fear depression. A form of denial, imo." Spot on if you ask me. If my sister knew that every day I think about buying a gun and just ******* blowing my brains out to end this nightmare, maybe she would keep her bulls*** advice to herself? Maybe. They WISH we could just snap out of it, or get over it, or try harder or whatever it is that their insensitive, selfish little brain is thinking would make this problem go away so they can go on with their happy little carefree lives.


I can't believe a psychologist said that...please tell me she's not a clinical psychologist?? Otherwise it's so disheartening that she said that...


I agree. That is so unprofessional. She's in the wrong field, lol.
maybe Wall St would be a better fit.

Alot of people with bad depression have had LITTLE emotional support. So , obviously this makes it worse. EMPATHY can work wonders. I went to an excellent dr. in Boston when I first started, he made me realize what I missed from my Dad mostly.

Alot of us had negative parenting or trauma in the past. It takes time to deal and learn from it. . That is so wrong that a person in the field has contempt for a depressed person.

I have walked out of one place bcs of their unprofessionalism.

Edited by Hope4theBest, 05 October 2012 - 02:48 PM.


IF YOU ARE LONELY WHEN YOU ARE ALONE , THEN YOU ARE IN BAD COMPANY
~Jean Paul Sartre

#20 henrithecat

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 04:47 PM

My husband is very loving and supportive, but he tells me to "try harder" sometimes. Sigh. I don't know what else I can do really.

I'm on a roll this time. I feel my luck could change.

#21 Hope4theBest

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 05:08 PM

well at least he's supportive. My ex called me spoiled (I worked 60 hr weeks in a law office) but if on weekends I didnt want to hustle and do 'chores' around the house, he couldnt 'understand'.

I also think 'positive affirmations' are a crock. If a persons neurochemistry is off, its the same as cancer. Its not like listening to advice from dr drew or some utube clip is going to cure your brain.

IF YOU ARE LONELY WHEN YOU ARE ALONE , THEN YOU ARE IN BAD COMPANY
~Jean Paul Sartre

#22 blueskys_lemondrops

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:34 PM

I can relate with your experience. There is only so much that you can do, so much positive momentum that can be built. It's like being weighted down during a race and it cuts short your progress. If I could keep going to the point it pulled me out I would do it, for me things are blocked. So I don't do it to cure the depression but rather make sure the depression doesn't take over my thinking. I can feel a bit accomplished with the whole trying thing, other times I simply feel at a stalemate, disconnected from my feelings and sense of reality.


#23 stories

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 03:16 AM

In short, I think you should have a lot more self-compassion and give yourself the time and space to recover. It hurts to hear people talk to you that way when they don't understand a thing, but remember there are many of us here who do understand your experience.


Thanks everyone for the responses. I almost forgot about this thread for a while. I am still having trouble with this as I am still being told to "try harder".

In response to your post, HRiddle (which is why I quoted you), my Nonverbal Learning Disorder is getting in the way. No one seems to understand it or even recognize it is there after awhile. That is my 'trauma'. That disorder has shaped me, in a way, and I hate it to no end. It is just a burden. There are few things good about it. It caused all my problems, honestly. With the disorder I am predisposed to depression, anxiety, panic, and phobias, also suicide. Well depression is upon me unfortunately. I know my family adapted to the disorder to help me when I was growing up but I don't think I ever had any therapy or counseling for it, or even "pragmatic social skills" classes which I definitely needed. I am not sure how to make others understand my learning disability or how it affects me. Thanks for your response though.

Edited by stories, 06 October 2012 - 03:30 AM.


I have too many disorders.

#24 puddlejumper

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

To be honest, no one is telling me to "try harder". But I really feel like I have to keep trying, keep pushing, keep functioning. If I slow down too much, I think the depression will grab me by the ankles and pull me underwater. I don't feel like I'm "trying harder" but I sure am "trying hard" just to stay afloat. It's so exhausting!


#25 SloStang

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:07 PM

I noticed a few others on this thread pointing out that some of the 'you should try harder' people may be genuinely concerned for us and really want to help us but just don't know how.


This reminds me of my mother. She always wants to give advice no matter what the situation. Running a half-marathon? Suddenly she's an expert and I have to assure her that I'll drink plenty of water and take care of my knees, because she saw some story on Dr. Oz once. I've learned not to be too open about my running habit, because some people just don't understand. Luckily I have a running club to turn to for support. Wow, that analogy is much more accurate than I expected. :-)


#26 bohemian_artist

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:40 PM

I’m empathetic, stories. I’ve definitely experienced this.

In fact, to be frank about it: I’ve learned the hard way to edit myself and be careful how I say things (if at all). This kind of try-harder-to-get-over-it reply is one of the reasons I quit expressing personal feelings in many situations. It’s awful enough feeling this bad inside; adding to it by having to defend myself and my character makes it worse.

I suppose you may be able to relate if I say I generally feel I have no one (friends or family) to talk to who can openly understand and listen without harsh judgment… Over time, my personality has become socially reclusive and guarded to shield myself from this happening to me; and from the possibility of hurting others or worrying others about my depression. Note that I’m not saying this is healthy; just being honest :|

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen..."

~ Elizabeth Kubler Ross

#27 aure

aure

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 03:26 PM

I've also experienced this. It's sad that we've all heard this line. I'm looking for a job right now, and no one understands how hard it is to do that when my brain is telling me every hour of the day that I'm worthless and no one should ever hire me. Try projecting confidence with that! And then my family still criticizes me and tells me to try harder when I am already trying my best!

So tired of the stigma. What if we all just said, "Well, it's not that simple, and **** you," to the next person who tells us to "try harder." Maybe that would make an impression on the nay-sayers? I get angry that I have to shield other people from my negative emotions and project positive ones--when I don't have any to spare.

"Should I **** myself, or have a cup of coffee?"
--Albert Camus

"Most people will never have to go through the crap you're going through. I can never fully understand your pain but can only try to sympathize."
-- a wise stranger-turned-friend from the Internet




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