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[WorkingTowardsaBetterLife]

Mods- I don't know which forum to post this in but I think it could really help some so move as you see fit.

I was thinking about it today, when I replied to someone else's thread about what you received best from therapy........My therapist said when you learn to accept who you are a lot of your problems may resolve themselves. I got a bit upset when I heard that about 9 months ago and dismissed it. She said your negative attitude about your mental health diagnosis is not helping your GAD situation. Worrying, stressing, obsessing about the negatives are not helping your insomnia, which triggers your BP issues and other issues.

So can you accept yourself? I am struggling, but it's getting a bit better. My god, when I first was diagnosed BP1 with paranoia and psychosis thoughts of Michael Myers and Halloween came to mind. Then I got a little more adjusted to the idea after I watched Stephen Fry's The Secret Life of a Manic Depressive. I started seeking out positive role models in the BP community. I started believing again I can be a productive member of society.

Then I see the PDOC again and he says well most BP people are co-morbid. Wow that sound peachy. He hits me with GAD, PTSD, some OCD issues and let's throw in ED issues as well. Now I feel like a real freaking loser. I had this self image of myself that I was smarter, more clever, handsome, and had been successful now that was all torn apart. I begin think my god I am going to end up homeless like my Dad, also BP1 whom is non compliant. I starting really fearing the funny farm was coming in the wagon to pick me up.

The last time I saw my therapist, before I had to transition to another one she asked me how i perceive myself. I said I see myself as someone with a very serious mental health problem. She had hoped for I am smart person, whom is working hard to manage my mental health issues........I am a good person with a dark cloud at times, I think she put it.

So whom is willing to share about their evolution to acceptance. How did you do it. Who long did it take you? Was the process bumpy as I expect?

Thank you for sharing.

Dan

[Epictetus]

Hi Dan,

Good topic.

I would have to say that I am still working on it and I am almost 60 years old. It is hard to reduce one's attitudes and influences to objectivity, but I think I am making continual progress although bouts of severe depression seem to cancel out everything sometimes.

At one level I think to myself that if I end up someday in unclean rags, stinking to high heaven, and living in a cardboard box in an alley, I will still honor respect and love myself. At another level I am not there in terms of total acceptance.

The turning point for me came with two insights: The ideals that a society needs fulfilled and which it therefore rewards are not necessarily good for everyone in the society. And of course I am also referred to that smallest of societies; the human family where we enter as the weakest member.

I can understanding a society at war rewarding courage and bravery. But I don't think that means that every single member of the society needs to be a soldier. I can understand a society that needs explorers and settlers to idealize and reward aggression and self-reliance but I don't think that every member of the society needs to be like that. Societies, including the human family reward those who fulfill their needs and do not reward those who don't. When I was in Japan I found that the Japanese highly reward shyness and cooperation. Children who are too individualistic and outgoing are often sent to psychiatrists. In my country, parents worry if their children are shy.

I think we are sort of "programmed" to idealize things and reward and punish ourselves in relation to how to meet or fail to meet these ideals: the ideal child, the ideal sibling, the ideal student, the ideal friend, the ideal 'male' or 'female,' the ideal worker. We even have ideals like: the ideal 'normal' person.

I spent a lot of my life beating myself up over these abstract ideals. It wasn't until I got older that I learned that first, many of these ideals were not really mine and second, that many of these ideals were unrealistic and perfectionistic, and third, that many of these ideals were detrimental to my mental health, to my humanity and to my individuality. I learned I could beat up the ideals instead of beating up myself.

But the programming runs very deep. It can almost seem to be hard-wired into my brain. So it takes effort to be myself and accept myself. But in theory at least, I am committed to loving and honoring myself no matter what, with no strings attached. And in theory I am willing to lower unrealistic expectations, get rid of expectations and ideals that do me harm, and honor myself in my own individual strangeness. I try to examine the "shoulds" in my life to see if first, they are not perfectionist and second, that they are really MY ideals and not ideals I have simply absorbed from the dominant culture. Does that make any sense Dan?

One of the hardest lessons of life is that we are full of contradictions: loving and hating the same people, loving and hating the same ideals and so on. One would like to have "chemically pure" feelings, but I have learned that this is also unrealistic. I can be glad for some good that befalls a person and also be jealous. I can love and hate myself. But . . . I try to envelop any feelings I have in acceptance and love...

"I love you Epi even though you are hating yourself right now."
I love you Epi even though you are hating yourself for hating yourself right now.'
I love you Epi for feeling guilty about hating yourself.
I love you Epi for being angry at yourself for hating yourself.
No matter what, I will not stop honoring and loving you Epi.

In order words, I try to envelop all the my feelings in love, the positive and the negative feelings.

But do I accept myself. That is the question. I do and I don't. I try. I think that individuality is not an imperfection. I think a universe without individuals would be poorer. So I think individuality is intended. I feel like my individuality is a law of nature just like the laws of physics. Just like social laws. I am a law too. I don't know if that will make sense to you. My unique "strangeness" is something that should be on the earth, and so it is also a law.

Anyway . . . I am going on and on. I hope my post made sense. LOL. Best to you Dan.

Edited by Ep1ctetus, 15 August 2012 - 10:42 PM.

[WorkingTowardsaBetterLife]

Ep- Thank you very much for that thoughtful post. It's so deep I need to process it before I can really respond since you hit so many good points.

[Twitchy1]

I'm not sure that I'll ever fully accept myself as I am, though I am working at it. In particular, I am currently challenging my need to be on medication to control the bipolar disorder. I wasn't diagnosed until earlier this year (I'm nearly 40), though I suspected it on and off for a few years. Having my pdoc put me in the psych ward after a serious suicide scare kind of drove the point home, but now I think to myself "well, I made it to 39 yrs old without anyone's help, is all this really necessary?" The answer is probably yes, but full acceptance will take time. I'm off my meds right now (my pdoc is aware of this, she actually took me off them temporarily and then I stayed off of them) and I feel good, but there is a part of me that knows that I am being reckless and that this could change at any time. I'm currently enjoying a kind of manic/hypomanic state, and I'm working dilligently to hide it from my therapist and pdoc so that they don't force me back on the meds. My husband recognized the signs of mania last week and asked me about it, but then believed me when I told him that it wasn't mania or anything to be worried about. So I suppose that is yet another sign that I'm not accepting my illness.

I think what holds me back the most in terms of acceptance is my perfectionism and inability to admit weakness on my part. I've always been a very driven person, an intelligent high achiever as my pdoc puts it. It also doesn't help that I'm in a profession that is very male-dominated and egocentric, with lots of chest thumping and cocksure personalities. If my colleagues knew of my illness it would undermine my career, despite the fact that depression (and mental illness generally) is prevalent in my field. My therapist is helping me work through these issues so that I can accept the fact that being bipolar is NOT a sign of weakness or something I should be ashamed of, but rather a true illness. Again, it's going to take some time.

[WorkingTowardsaBetterLife]

I'm not sure that I'll ever fully accept myself as I am, though I am working at it. In particular, I am currently challenging my need to be on medication to control the bipolar disorder. I wasn't diagnosed until earlier this year (I'm nearly 40), though I suspected it on and off for a few years. Having my pdoc put me in the psych ward after a serious suicide scare kind of drove the point home, but now I think to myself "well, I made it to 39 yrs old without anyone's help, is all this really necessary?" The answer is probably yes, but full acceptance will take time. I'm off my meds right now (my pdoc is aware of this, she actually took me off them temporarily and then I stayed off of them) and I feel good, but there is a part of me that knows that I am being reckless and that this could change at any time. I'm currently enjoying a kind of manic/hypomanic state, and I'm working dilligently to hide it from my therapist and pdoc so that they don't force me back on the meds. My husband recognized the signs of mania last week and asked me about it, but then believed me when I told him that it wasn't mania or anything to be worried about. So I suppose that is yet another sign that I'm not accepting my illness.

I think what holds me back the most in terms of acceptance is my perfectionism and inability to admit weakness on my part. I've always been a very driven person, an intelligent high achiever as my pdoc puts it. It also doesn't help that I'm in a profession that is very male-dominated and egocentric, with lots of chest thumping and cocksure personalities. If my colleagues knew of my illness it would undermine my career, despite the fact that depression (and mental illness generally) is prevalent in my field. My therapist is helping me work through these issues so that I can accept the fact that being bipolar is NOT a sign of weakness or something I should be ashamed of, but rather a true illness. Again, it's going to take some time.

I went off my meds for awhile and I do ok off meds as long as my stress is normal. When stress gets high I need meds, whether it be BP meds and/or benzos for anxiety. The thing about mania for me, is it's not all bad. I am funnier, when hypomanic, and more productive, I can process info at the speed of light. But then I often go full manic and under extreme stress psychotic. I just hate taking any BP meds because the slow me down and I can't function as well mentally. I find I can't find words in my mind, I am slow, and don't appear as articulate as I really am. It's a real mixed bag. I have tried 6 BP meds so far and only Lamictal and Lithium have had somewhat acceptable side effects. The rest were a disaster.

I am like you in that I was diagnosed BP1 about 2 years ago and now 43. I always just thought I had a bad temper and like to use drugs. I fit the classic example of being very irritable towards the general public. I figured everyone was like me, as a supposed normal teen growing up in a area where people partied a lot. Now I realize I was self medicating as a teen. But even with that said, in college I could go all day with normal stress and then just smoke a certain substance to knock me out and I pulled mostly A's during college. If it weren't for insomnia issues off and on for 20 plus years I would probably not take meds at all. I would just find a job that doesn't have such high stress and I would be find with no meds.

Additionally, like you, I am a driven almost perfectionist whom beats himself up all the time. I am negative and cynical too, although I have flashes of positive thinking. A therapist told me that the expectations of my wife and I are so we are set up to fail all the time and it would just cause my BP to trigger off and on.

I wonder if I truly accepted my mental health issues and was more open about them, kind of like gays coming out of the closet, all this would disappear. I would no longer need self medication, benzos, and other meds to manage my day and night. Suffering from paranoia for a number of reasons, makes this very difficult to do. If I was an actor it would be almost cool to be BP, but in sales people would say mean things to me talk behind my back, etc. I have seen this first hand.

The only strength I have that most BP people don't, according to my psych, is even when I have had breakdowns I am rational enough not to take extreme action without at first considering the consequences. A few years ago I had a full psychotic break and was about to attack the neighbor because I imagined that my auditory hallucinations was his bass coming through the wall. Just before I picked up the stick to attack him I thought he isn't a bad guy he doesn't know his bass is too loud. Then I put my head to wall and the sounds were gone. I realized it was me not him that needed help. I removed myself from that situation and all turned out ok.

I am just reading your point on reckless. I have been very reckless at points in my life. Whether it be alcohol, drugs, crime, I have done it. My therapist and wife asked me why I committed those crimes, shoplifting, stealing proprietary info from employer that I despised. Honestly, part of the reason I did it was because it was exciting and stressful at the same time.

Well sorry for my rambling I am getting off topic a bit, can you tell I am hypomanic LOL.

Can I ask what field you are in that mental illness is prevalent? I am going to guess an artistic endeavor?

[fallenangelxxx]

no!! nothing has got better!! ive been out for few years now and nothing is the same! people look at like we are crazy...but most of us arent! 3 years ago i did try to blow off my head! the doctors blamed the anti-depres.. they said that what did....I dont know, i have soo much piled in me that i can never share!! people will not understand hell!! i dont understand, but its my job, no questions just shoot. I love the Marine Corps. but i do hate what they have done to me, im a monster very dangerous to most people! i do try to be better, i know you all are not my enemy...i try to remember that alot. I even pray to God for help but i get the feeling he wont talk to me anymore. i feel lost with nowhere to be!! Im tired of being tortured!!

[Twitchy1]

Workingtowardsabetterlife - I'm an attorney. You wouldn't necessarily expect it, but I guess lawyers have one of the highest rates of depression (and, not surprisingly, substance abuse). It makes sense, for many of the same reasons I listed above - most attorneys are success-oriented, competitive and adversarial.

I have a history of substance abuse myself, but mercifully I have always been able to walk away before things got really out of control. I really really really like the feeling of being "out of control" - and knowing that I am strong enough to reel myself back in. While I recognize that this is not a healthy mindset, I also see how that fits in with my illness. I still drink alcohol in moderation (though I drink less and less as time goes on) and occasionally enjoy a "smoke," but the hard core stuff is way in my past.

Your story resonates with me quite a bit. So much of what you wrote matches my experiences in high school, college, etc. The more I talk with my therapist, and the more I read what people share on DF, the more I recognize how my illness has shaped my entire life. It's eye opening.

Edited by Twitchy1, 16 August 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[WorkingTowardsaBetterLife]

Workingtowardsabetterlife - I'm an attorney. You wouldn't necessarily expect it, but I guess lawyers have one of the highest rates of depression (and, not surprisingly, substance abuse). It makes sense, for many of the same reasons I listed above - most attorneys are success-oriented, competitive and adversarial.

I have a history of substance abuse myself, but mercifully I always been able to walk away before things got really out of control. I really really really like the feeling of being "out of control" - and knowing that I am strong enough to reel myself back in. While I recognize that this is not a healthy mindset, I also see how that fits in with my illness. I still drink alcohol in moderation (though I drink less and less as time goes on) and occasionally enjoy a "smoke," but the hard core stuff is way in my past.

Your story resonates with me quite a bit. So much of what you wrote matches my experiences in high school, college, etc. The more I talk with my therapist, and the more I read what people share on DF, the more I recognize how my illness has shaped my entire life. It's eye opening.

Its funny when I read your post and reflect back I had to do a collage when I was a small kid and we had to tittle it, I titled mine Moody and my last name. I think that was 4th or 5th grade. I recently asked my Mom about that and she said she always remembered me that way. Super happy when I won and sulking and down when I lost. Then later I started getting picked on by bullies, which is ironic because I was bigger than most. But I never felt like I fully fit in and they sensed it so they were always trying me out and not one to back down I got into probably 20 fist fights in Jr High and High School.

I think I was 14 when I took my first drink and soon after was going to keg parties in OC, CA where I grew up. I could never go to a party and not drink. Drinking made me the fun, charismatic guy. I would get nervous trying to talk to girls without something in my hand. Smoking urn, calmed me down. The racing thoughts just stopped and then my insomnia went away. I have tried all drugs out there but having GAD, only the sedative type made my moods better.

When I take a hard look at my life I can see the deck was stacked against me heavily to develop BP. My Dad has BP1 also, as did his blood relative. My Mom was a somewhat functional single parent alcoholic until I was age 13. There was a large amount of emotional abuse/abandonment in my house. Sometimes Mom just left me alone at age 9 to go to happy hour. Her drinking buddy's son introduced me to shoplifting at that age. Earlier than that she had a long term boyfriend that turned real ugly in the end and threatened to kidnap me and raped her. On top of that mental health issues run on her side of the family going back to my grandfather whom I never knew because he died young due to alcoholism related problems. Its just ironic when the psych gave me the full eval for BP I answered yes to all except sexual promiscuity. I have had multiple head traumas as well in my earlier years. I remember after he completed the eval I thought well I ought to just go home and end it, and yes I have OD'd and contemplated suicide many times over the last 3 years. Thankfully I am in a better place now. When my therapist asked me why I didn't go through with it all I could say at the time was my brother, who's life is as big a mess and more, needs me. He has no one else to support him and get advice from. My wife was sitting right there next to me in therapy and she was so sad that not even her was enough for me not to seriously contemplate it.

People don't understand that don't suffer like we do. When, at times, you are living in purgatory, death doesn't seem bad. Its scary but I have been through so much trauma in the last few years I am no longer afraid to die, honestly. Maybe a little scared but not much really.

Hopefully acceptance on my part, and managing my stress will allow me to lead a more productive life.

Wishing both of you and everyone else better Kharma.

BTW Twitchy your legal profession and my outside sales job have a lot of similarities. Driven, cut throat, substance abuse.

[WorkingTowardsaBetterLife]

no!! nothing has got better!! ive been out for few years now and nothing is the same! people look at like we are crazy...but most of us arent! 3 years ago i did try to blow off my head! the doctors blamed the anti-depres.. they said that what did....I dont know, i have soo much piled in me that i can never share!! people will not understand hell!! i dont understand, but its my job, no questions just shoot. I love the Marine Corps. but i do hate what they have done to me, im a monster very dangerous to most people! i do try to be better, i know you all are not my enemy...i try to remember that alot. I even pray to God for help but i get the feeling he wont talk to me anymore. i feel lost with nowhere to be!! Im tired of being tortured!!

I too was first give Anti Depressants before receiving a proper diagnosis and they made me manic instantly. Don't ever let another doc give your AD'd they are a big no no for BP folks. In the span of one day on Celexa I went from want to cheat with a ugly woman, almost got into a fist fight with a driver I cut off, and was contemplating stealing from the store. Just say no to AD's as a BP person.

The best advice I received, other than working on acceptance, is do what ever you can to lower your stress. Stress has a direct correlation on triggering BP. Being fired from my high stress job was probably a good thing. I have so much less mania than I did before. If you can exercise, meditate, Thai Chi, relax and have some kind of down time, is what you need. Every time I go on vacation once settled in I am just fine, then I would go back to my high stress sales job and I would rapid cycle, have mixed mania, and want to hurt some people or myself. Just do the best you can to lower your stress. I think you will pleasantly surprised at the results.

[Scoobsnheather]

This is such an awesome question!
I've been trying to figure that out for myself and I think it will be a life long process. I have moments of true clarity and see how cool it is to be BP (it really is!!) and then I go down and I forget every single thought or feeling I once had. I think as I've gotten older I've realized that if I can't mentally hold onto these good things then I should write them down so I can read them for myself and try my hardest to believe them. I also reread the homework my social worker has given me and I hear her in my head walking me through the bad stuff. I really have to focus during these times because it pretty much feels hopeless and I feel like a failure and I'll never achieve my dreams and that's all I can think about. That's when the guilt kicks in, of course. It's a real struggle, but the point I really want to make is, the simple fact that we recognize the struggle and want to attain something more than what we are, that is pretty much acceptance in my books.

I think sometimes it's wise to just stop and see ourselves for who we are. We are beyond unique and the rest of the world won't ever get it (society sucks *Insert my long winded rant here*), which makes us the world's best kept secret. When we're on, we're really on and that's truly something to celebrate!! :)

[fallenangelxxx]

Ive tried all kinds of things to stay sane....my doc said i was sane but with issues.........well duh!!! All i have ever wanted is a home with a wife, live a quiet life togather growing old with very few problems. That is my wish...SEE im not so bad i do want the better things in life its just been slow getting them.

[fallenangelxxx]

Ive tried all kinds of things to stay sane....my doc said i was sane but with issues.........well duh!!! All i have ever wanted is a home with a wife, live a quiet life togather growing old with very few problems. That is my wish...SEE im not so bad i do want the better things in life its just been slow getting them.

We are who we are..