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[crispian]

I'm a severe Obstructive Sleep Apnoea sufferer, to summarise it - I wouldn't wish it on my most hated person.

For the med techies there's a summary here:

Basically when I sleep and hit N3 (stages 3 & 4, the deep healing sleep) I choke and am brought up to at least N1, if not awakeness so that my muscles can open the airway. 43 Times and hour. Add to that, the average duration is around 17 seconds, that's pretty much every minute.

I'm married, with 3 wonderful kids. The oldest is 13 and the youngest is coming up to 5 in August.

I exhibit disconcerting parasomnias (actions whilst asleep), to which I believe the main cause is the lack of REM Atonia (inhibited motor function during REM sleep to prevent one from 'acting out' what's being dreamed). Oddly however, the parasomnias are often violent and directed towards my wife with both physcial and verbal abuse that few would stand for. I have also awoken from sleep realising that I've just punched my wife, strangled (but thankfully not enough to cause an physcial *or* mental/emptional damage) my middle daughter (kids like to climb into bed with Mum and Dad in the early hours sometimes) and also headbutted my 5 year old boy.

I find I resist going to bed with every fibre of my being, to the point of insomnia, however being an apnoea sufferer its near impossible to hold it back for long without the body just packing in and sleeping anyway.

I do not know how long I've been suffering from Apnoea, I have college friends that recall my sleeping a lot in the college library (when I was 17, I'm 37 now). I've had headaches daily for as long as I can remember, and always been a loner even though I always had a few reliable close friends.

In 2006 I finally fell apart and went to the GP (General Practioner, Local Doctor) and said that I believed I was suffering from Depression. I knew that I was suffering from Apnoea 7 years prior but coudn't get a GP to bother to follow it up and they just said I needed more sleep!

Fortunately I had private health insurance through my employer and saw both a Psychiartrist and CBT Psychologist. I also went through Fluoxetine, Citalopram and another I think that I've forgotten, and eventually was put onto 300mgs of Venlafaxine (Effexor).

26 sessions later with the CBT Psych I was finally able to produce something that got my GP to refer me to a neurological centre to investigate my parasomnias. I was wired up with enough electronics gear to look like I was about to walk into an embassy and explode (apologies if I offend anyone there). The very next morning I was told immediately that I was suffering from severe OSA and that was likely the cause of the parasomnias. I was awash with hope and excitment - my problems had a name, and that meant they could be treated.

4 months later, still awaiting a CPAP machine to treat my apnoea I finally caved into my depression whilst driving home from work (20 miles commute) and didn't care if I fell asleep. About 5 seconds later I noticed I was on the wrong carriageway - luckily it was empty in the opposite direction. I couldn't wait for the healthcare in the UK and aquired my own CPAP unit, and about a month later the UK health system finally gave me one.

Sadly the CPAP unit does little for me. Instead of giving me refreshing, wonderful sleep, I wake up with painful cramps in my stomache (from the air leaking into my tummy), terrible issues with unpleasant and frequent wind, eyes that frequently water (leakages around the eye area) and on top of the physical issues I have to deal with putting on a mask every night that stops me facing my wife as I sleep unless I place something between her and I to block the expelled air from the mask. I frequently suffer from Sinusitis due to the air drying out my sinuses, if I put the humidifier up too high I wake upo frequently in the night to find water running out of the mask.

As for the parasomnias, my wife tells me that I'll pull the mask off my face, hurl abuse at her and then put it back on again. (I never know anything about the parasomnias or apnoea events unless my wife informs me).

All in all the CPAP fails to revitalise me, and as the years have passed I've less frequently used it. I still use it though, in the hope that one day it'll fix me.

That's my sleep!

I'm on 5mg or Ramipril for Hypertension (they say hereditory, but the Apnoea could just as well be causing it)
80mg of Simvastatin for inherited LDL issues.
2mg x3 per day of Diazepam for my headaches (to be reviewed shortly)
And I have a ton of Codeine based meds from various sources (not prescribed to me) as well as some Tramadol.
And ofc the Venlafaxine, although a prescribed 300mg from the Psych, I'm taking only 150 as the half-life withdrawl symptoms are horrible for me.

My Children love me, my son can't get enough of me, my wife has to fight to sit next to me with my eldest daughter and my middle daughter is just 'understanding'. I can't explain it, you either understand children and how they behave towards their parents, or you don't.

I'm a perfectionst, less than I used to be but still enough to obssess over things. I have some OCDs that I'm aware of, usual stuff.

I have a Black Belt in Tae Kwon-Do, was a software developer for a company that dealt with the UK Ministry of Defence, European Space Agency, Metropolitan Police, Houses of Parliment and various energy and environmental sectors of the UK. I'm 5'11 and my weight fluctuates a lot between 13 and 15 stone.

From early 2007 until 2009 (I think) I tried everything to get back to work and become the valuable employee I once was. Eventually I was threatened with using MSN Messenger at work (it was a pitiful attempt to soften me up for ..) and a second later offered a "Comprimise Agreement". Basically they had given up, and rather than ask politely they were afraid of UK Employment Law stinging them and so drove me to agree to the comprimise (an under the table deal that would remove the threat of action and pay me off to leave the company basically).

There's a story to that but not for this post really.


Still reading? Blimey, you must be bored!

Now I'm at a point where my most recent thoughts have been that if *something* should happen to me, I wouldn't want my children to discover me first. I've given up. I've no way to write the following down in a nice paragraphed way

I had a mild accident with a hedge in the snow with my car, I felt nothing (I wasn't hurt, I just didn't care what had happened)
I have no memory anymore. Either the apnoea or the depression could be the cause, but I fail to remember things, and have trouble recalling the past (besides my recent medical history, I've filled out enough forms and seen enough 'professionals' to last a lifetime).
I feel nothing, except anger and sadness.
I want to hurt people I don't believe are behaving in a way I feel they should. (Being rude, unpleasant, not caring about others etc - not complying to my life-rules).
I don't just want to hurt them, I often have to strain to prevent myself, whether driving or walking around.
I can't look in the mirror, I don't like my reflection.
I can't spend time in silence with myself.
I have no energy to do anything, I just sit in the same chair all the time, mostly staring at my laptop wishing it would do something interesting - there was a time I was always playing games on it - I don't find any pleasure in that anymore.
I don't find pleasure in life, I don't know if I ever did, I don't know what it feels like.
Nothing I do is enjoyable.
My libido is gone (I know the drugs have a lot to blame for that too).
I haven't drunk alcohol since 2006, I stopped smoking in 2005, I don't take drugs (except medicinal ones).
I was a model citizen, nice to people, polite, held doors for people I didn't know, let people out of busy road junctions when driving, picked up litter etc.
Now I just feel betrayed by nature.
My wife is sinking into a depression because of my condition.
My eldest daughter asks me to smile.
I can't concentrate (although I've done well to type this). I can't cope with the forum list for this site, or the interface - and I was an interface developer once. I just can't focus on anything.
I can't run numbers like I used to, often when I'd play a game I'd work the stats out for various things, I can't even add 2 and 2 without losing focus now.
I hear a ringing in my head.
My ears throb to noise.
I hate loud noises, I get angry and shout a lot, or run away and sleep.
I don't cry much, I want to, but I can't most of the time.
I sit in the shower and lose myself in the 'rain'.
I can't listen to people for more than a few minutes before I find myself not listening or understanding what's being said to me.
People don't understand me, makes me angry. I have to repeat myself a lot.
This forum posting mechanism is likely timed out and when I post and it loses everything I'm just not going to bother and switch it off (copies to clipboard right now!)
I hurt. I stopped exercising, I stopped doing anything. I don't see a point in anything any more.
I don't eat much. I eat at rare times when I know if I don't I'm going to fall over. Sometimes I binge, but I rarely eat anything other than bread, cheese or cereal, and my Wife's a lovely cook.
I exist only to serve others. I have to wake to drive people to places, I have to wake to perform tasks, I do not wake and get up because I want to.

And now I'm at the crux of my post. I'm pretty sure I've enough medical produce to do the job I'm consdering daily. Until now I considered blowing my airbags and crashing my car. Jumping from a height and landing head first (I don't want to suffer, I want it to be quick), stepping in front of traffic (although I don't want to ruin anyone else's life), drowning, drinking myself to death, emptying my arteries, wishing my apnoea would do the job and other such thoughts. But now I realise I've had the means right before me, my medications and various strong painkillers.

I'm an athiest and a scientist. I don't believe there's anything after, I don't believe there was anything for me before. I'm a combination of electrical signals and organic matter that's a result of years of stimuli to create responses and reactions. Nothing is unpredictable if all the facts are known, life is a sequence. Death is black, there's nothing after, the lights go out and the brain stops. Life ceases to exist. Surely it's better to just stop the torture that is my life instead of endure it? I'd not know it was over, I wouldn't care - I'd cease to be, but at least I wouldn't be in pain.

I'm not asking for answers, I'm just lost and something inside me tells me that if I don't say something somewhere to someone its not going to matter much longer, just as long as the kids don't discover me before anyone else if I pass.

Thank you, whoever you might be, for listening, I've no-one else who understands what it is to be me.

Edited by lindahurt, 08 August 2011 - 07:06 PM.
Graphic/ Per TOS

[solarflare]

I cant imagine what it is like to have sleep apnea. You are very intelligent, maybe too much so.

My problem is I can sleep round the clock to avoid the negative thinking. I too wonder why I should live, but I have a teenage son, who doesnt seem to want much to do with me. Thus I put off ending it all.

I keep reminding myself that that is the most selfish thing I could do.

I also am trying to realize that I must use this life I have to help others in some way.

I hope you find strength and more compassion for yourself and others.

Blessings

[haappy]

I know a CPAP is a real nuisance. I have used one for 6 years. It took me a year to get completely accustomed to it. There are a couple things you might consider. It doesn't sound like your mask fits properly. There shouldn't be any air leaks. I had a hard time finding one that didn't leak air into my eyes. I finally found one that the angle of the nose piece adjusts. It is the only mask I can use.

Also I have an auto Pap instead of a CPAP. The air flow adjusts to my breathing. That way it doesn't blow harder than I need. I have never had trouble with air in my stomach.

The humidifier takes a bit of time to get adjust correctly for your climate. It will also need a little changing as the weather changes. I find that if I lie on my back more water builds up in the mask. I can't figure that out.

As for the expelled air there isn't a lot you can do. I find my arm gets freezing cold from the air. I have to cover my arm with the sheet.

There is one thing I love about my CPAP: in the winter I pull all the blankets over my head and sleep very toasty.

My husband used to use a CPAP but now uses a mouth piece. It might be worth trying. One kind is called SnoreMeds. You can find it one the internet. They are too big for my mouth so I can't use them.

Good luck!

[SailingAway]

Hello Crispian

I can offer you my empathy for what you are going through. I do not suffer with the sleep disorder you have, but can imagine how horrible it is to live with it, and how it affects your family life. It sounds like a living hell. After reading through your ordeal, I found one sentence that caught my attention. I noticed it because I have seen it in myself, and in other people who are going through a severe depression. Here is your sentence:

I exist only to serve others. I have to wake to drive people to places, I have to wake to perform tasks, I do not wake and get up because I want to.

It is good you wrote about what's going on in your life. Writing has probably released a bit of the stress, and you can look back at what you wrote to gain perspective. Many people on DF understand. I have received some very thoughtful and caring advice on here so far.

For one thing, there is absolutely no doubt you are an intelligent person who has accomplished so much in life. I won't repeat everything because I think you already know how blessed you are. I just wanted to say 'don't give up. Please don't give up on yourself. These negative feelings are temporary. They will pass, I assure you. I think you do have major depression, and I think you need to get professional help immediately. I don't know if you'd be averse to admitting yourself as an inpatient to help you with the depression? That could be a good option. It may be a necessary break from daily life, and you'll be in a health care setting where they can help you get mentally well again, and perhaps also treat your sleep disorder at the same time. It is an understatement that you are burned out.

Crispian, please give yourself another chance. You are having some severe suicidal thinking at the moment. You need to seek professional help at this point. It is the depression making you think those thoughts...and they are deceptively good at convincing you that you don't deserve to live. Those are the biggest lies, and you deserve another chance. Do not let those thoughts push you to harm yourself or others. A strategy that my counselor told me was to practice detaching ourselves from the depression. We took a pillow, labeled it DEPRESSION, and each of us took turns hitting the freaking pillow, for God's sake. It looked ridiculous, but believe me, it worked. Most of us swore and cursed at the pillow, we hit it numerous times to vent our anger, and one other person threw it across the room. This, of course, wasn't our entire therapy session....it was just one small catharsis that seemed to work. If you don't want to try it, that's totally understandable....but I guess I'm trying to say that it was a way for us to take CONTROL over the depression, instead of internalizing our feelings and believing the delusions and negative thoughts in our minds.

Keep writing if you can. Maybe that's a catharsis that works for you. Remember that these feelings will pass. You deserve to live and enjoy life again. Please seek the help you need for your own sake.

[crispian]

I keep reminding myself that that is the most selfish thing I could do.

I also am trying to realize that I must use this life I have to help others in some way.

I hope you find strength and more compassion for yourself and others.

Blessings

I don't believe that it should ever be considered selfish, living only to serve is the ultimate sacrifice ... but if those you serve don't return the complement that's selfish imho.

Thank you for your caring words.

I know a CPAP is a real nuisance. I have used one for 6 years. It took me a year to get completely accustomed to it. There are a couple things you might consider. It doesn't sound like your mask fits properly. There shouldn't be any air leaks. I had a hard time finding one that didn't leak air into my eyes. I finally found one that the angle of the nose piece adjusts. It is the only mask I can use.

Also I have an auto Pap instead of a CPAP. The air flow adjusts to my breathing. That way it doesn't blow harder than I need. I have never had trouble with air in my stomach.

The humidifier takes a bit of time to get adjust correctly for your climate. It will also need a little changing as the weather changes. I find that if I lie on my back more water builds up in the mask. I can't figure that out.

As for the expelled air there isn't a lot you can do. I find my arm gets freezing cold from the air. I have to cover my arm with the sheet.

There is one thing I love about my CPAP: in the winter I pull all the blankets over my head and sleep very toasty.

My husband used to use a CPAP but now uses a mouth piece. It might be worth trying. One kind is called SnoreMeds. You can find it one the internet. They are too big for my mouth so I can't use them.

Good luck!

Cheers for the advice, I've been using it for a few years myself now too. I realised I wasn't going to be one of the overnight cures, but hoped that after a year or two things would have improved. I've been through a few masks, mainly ResMed and Respironics ones. I don't get on with the nasal only ones, as I'm a mouth breather during hypopnea events, my nose hates me too. I was able to manage the stigma of the mask quite easily at first, but as time passed and the apnoea refused to abate my feelings towards the unit changed for the worse.

Yes, its good in the summer for cooling off (the air venting) and in the winter with the humidifier for warming up! I'm unable to lie on my back as not even an industrial compressor would do the job! So I have to lie on my side. Sadly, I've realise one of the things I've missed most is the feeling of comfort from a pillow on my cheek :(

I've a Respironics APAP, the bottom pressure is at 8 and the top 20, I often wake clinging onto the end of the bed (j/k) being blown away with the thing pumping out at 17 - 20, which any mask is going to fight.

Thanks tho! I spend a lot of time reading the ASAA forums and AWAKE ones for any inspiration with "XPAP".

Hello Crispian

I can offer you my empathy for what you are going through. I do not suffer with the sleep disorder you have, but can imagine how horrible it is to live with it, and how it affects your family life. It sounds like a living hell. After reading through your ordeal, I found one sentence that caught my attention. I noticed it because I have seen it in myself, and in other people who are going through a severe depression. Here is your sentence:

I exist only to serve others. I have to wake to drive people to places, I have to wake to perform tasks, I do not wake and get up because I want to.

It is good you wrote about what's going on in your life. Writing has probably released a bit of the stress, and you can look back at what you wrote to gain perspective. Many people on DF understand. I have received some very thoughtful and caring advice on here so far.

For one thing, there is absolutely no doubt you are an intelligent person who has accomplished so much in life. I won't repeat everything because I think you already know how blessed you are. I just wanted to say 'don't give up. Please don't give up on yourself. These negative feelings are temporary. They will pass, I assure you. I think you do have major depression, and I think you need to get professional help immediately. I don't know if you'd be averse to admitting yourself as an inpatient to help you with the depression? That could be a good option. It may be a necessary break from daily life, and you'll be in a health care setting where they can help you get mentally well again, and perhaps also treat your sleep disorder at the same time. It is an understatement that you are burned out.

Crispian, please give yourself another chance. You are having some severe suicidal thinking at the moment. You need to seek professional help at this point. It is the depression making you think those thoughts...and they are deceptively good at convincing you that you don't deserve to live. Those are the biggest lies, and you deserve another chance. Do not let those thoughts push you to harm yourself or others. A strategy that my counselor told me was to practice detaching ourselves from the depression. We took a pillow, labeled it DEPRESSION, and each of us took turns hitting the freaking pillow, for God's sake. It looked ridiculous, but believe me, it worked. Most of us swore and cursed at the pillow, we hit it numerous times to vent our anger, and one other person threw it across the room. This, of course, wasn't our entire therapy session....it was just one small catharsis that seemed to work. If you don't want to try it, that's totally understandable....but I guess I'm trying to say that it was a way for us to take CONTROL over the depression, instead of internalizing our feelings and believing the delusions and negative thoughts in our minds.

Keep writing if you can. Maybe that's a catharsis that works for you. Remember that these feelings will pass. You deserve to live and enjoy life again. Please seek the help you need for your own sake.

Hi Sailing, again thanks for responding. I am currently seeing a Psychiatrist and have been referred again to a Cognitive Based Analyst to see what might be worth trying next. CBT and 'talk therapy' really didn't help me much. I suspect that sleep deprivation is playing a massive part in my depression, which is not an easy one to remedy in my situation. I know I'm not unique, but I do feel alone.

I hope the feelings do pass, as it is I can't remember what life without depression felt like, and for me it makes me doubt there's anything outside of this feeling of despair. I have no wants anymore, I hate being praised for anything at all, if I didn't bleed or break something then whatever I'm being praised for probably wasn't that much of an effort. Everything seems so pointless.

I hope that time will heal, and that I survive the time it takes.

Cris

[pharm30]

I can totally relate. I'm 35, just been diagnosed with moderate complex sleep apnea, probably untreated for 20+ yrs.
I'm 5'7 ~ 150 lbs, so no one really belives it. I am always tired, low energy, low libido, poor memory.
Sleep study I was got NO REM sleep at all, even after titration study it was only 5-7%.
Trying to get used to my bipap autoSV, been two + months and I take it off every night - seems like the pressure gets out of control and I don't feel like fighting it.

I hope that being sleep deprived for years will explain why I feel so depressed, tired, worthless, and hoping that finally getting some sleep with help with feeling better.

I have been pretty depressed for as long as I can remember. Used to be an alcoholic, but a functional one. Social anxiety.
Got a doctorate degree, never missed a day of school or work. Divorced once, just broke up with gf of 5 plus years.
I go to the gym and do muay thai kickboxing and jiu jitsu. On and off smoker.
Went to CBT, I actually think it helped a little. All my friends are married and have kids. I am not sure what "normal" feels like.

I'm rambling, but anyways....PM me if you want to chat or anything.
I feel bad because in theory I have a nice life, but never can enjoy it.
I guess it's nice to know there may actually be a medical issue that would explain all my symptoms - sleep apnea may be the root of all my problems, and that I'm not such a bad guy I actually feel like all these years.

I keep reminding myself that that is the most selfish thing I could do.

I also am trying to realize that I must use this life I have to help others in some way.

I hope you find strength and more compassion for yourself and others.

Blessings

I don't believe that it should ever be considered selfish, living only to serve is the ultimate sacrifice ... but if those you serve don't return the complement that's selfish imho.

Thank you for your caring words.

I know a CPAP is a real nuisance. I have used one for 6 years. It took me a year to get completely accustomed to it. There are a couple things you might consider. It doesn't sound like your mask fits properly. There shouldn't be any air leaks. I had a hard time finding one that didn't leak air into my eyes. I finally found one that the angle of the nose piece adjusts. It is the only mask I can use.

Also I have an auto Pap instead of a CPAP. The air flow adjusts to my breathing. That way it doesn't blow harder than I need. I have never had trouble with air in my stomach.

The humidifier takes a bit of time to get adjust correctly for your climate. It will also need a little changing as the weather changes. I find that if I lie on my back more water builds up in the mask. I can't figure that out.

As for the expelled air there isn't a lot you can do. I find my arm gets freezing cold from the air. I have to cover my arm with the sheet.

There is one thing I love about my CPAP: in the winter I pull all the blankets over my head and sleep very toasty.

My husband used to use a CPAP but now uses a mouth piece. It might be worth trying. One kind is called SnoreMeds. You can find it one the internet. They are too big for my mouth so I can't use them.

Good luck!

Cheers for the advice, I've been using it for a few years myself now too. I realised I wasn't going to be one of the overnight cures, but hoped that after a year or two things would have improved. I've been through a few masks, mainly ResMed and Respironics ones. I don't get on with the nasal only ones, as I'm a mouth breather during hypopnea events, my nose hates me too. I was able to manage the stigma of the mask quite easily at first, but as time passed and the apnoea refused to abate my feelings towards the unit changed for the worse.

Yes, its good in the summer for cooling off (the air venting) and in the winter with the humidifier for warming up! I'm unable to lie on my back as not even an industrial compressor would do the job! So I have to lie on my side. Sadly, I've realise one of the things I've missed most is the feeling of comfort from a pillow on my cheek :(

I've a Respironics APAP, the bottom pressure is at 8 and the top 20, I often wake clinging onto the end of the bed (j/k) being blown away with the thing pumping out at 17 - 20, which any mask is going to fight.

Thanks tho! I spend a lot of time reading the ASAA forums and AWAKE ones for any inspiration with "XPAP".

Hello Crispian

I can offer you my empathy for what you are going through. I do not suffer with the sleep disorder you have, but can imagine how horrible it is to live with it, and how it affects your family life. It sounds like a living hell. After reading through your ordeal, I found one sentence that caught my attention. I noticed it because I have seen it in myself, and in other people who are going through a severe depression. Here is your sentence:

I exist only to serve others. I have to wake to drive people to places, I have to wake to perform tasks, I do not wake and get up because I want to.

It is good you wrote about what's going on in your life. Writing has probably released a bit of the stress, and you can look back at what you wrote to gain perspective. Many people on DF understand. I have received some very thoughtful and caring advice on here so far.

For one thing, there is absolutely no doubt you are an intelligent person who has accomplished so much in life. I won't repeat everything because I think you already know how blessed you are. I just wanted to say 'don't give up. Please don't give up on yourself. These negative feelings are temporary. They will pass, I assure you. I think you do have major depression, and I think you need to get professional help immediately. I don't know if you'd be averse to admitting yourself as an inpatient to help you with the depression? That could be a good option. It may be a necessary break from daily life, and you'll be in a health care setting where they can help you get mentally well again, and perhaps also treat your sleep disorder at the same time. It is an understatement that you are burned out.

Crispian, please give yourself another chance. You are having some severe suicidal thinking at the moment. You need to seek professional help at this point. It is the depression making you think those thoughts...and they are deceptively good at convincing you that you don't deserve to live. Those are the biggest lies, and you deserve another chance. Do not let those thoughts push you to harm yourself or others. A strategy that my counselor told me was to practice detaching ourselves from the depression. We took a pillow, labeled it DEPRESSION, and each of us took turns hitting the freaking pillow, for God's sake. It looked ridiculous, but believe me, it worked. Most of us swore and cursed at the pillow, we hit it numerous times to vent our anger, and one other person threw it across the room. This, of course, wasn't our entire therapy session....it was just one small catharsis that seemed to work. If you don't want to try it, that's totally understandable....but I guess I'm trying to say that it was a way for us to take CONTROL over the depression, instead of internalizing our feelings and believing the delusions and negative thoughts in our minds.

Keep writing if you can. Maybe that's a catharsis that works for you. Remember that these feelings will pass. You deserve to live and enjoy life again. Please seek the help you need for your own sake.

Hi Sailing, again thanks for responding. I am currently seeing a Psychiatrist and have been referred again to a Cognitive Based Analyst to see what might be worth trying next. CBT and 'talk therapy' really didn't help me much. I suspect that sleep deprivation is playing a massive part in my depression, which is not an easy one to remedy in my situation. I know I'm not unique, but I do feel alone.

I hope the feelings do pass, as it is I can't remember what life without depression felt like, and for me it makes me doubt there's anything outside of this feeling of despair. I have no wants anymore, I hate being praised for anything at all, if I didn't bleed or break something then whatever I'm being praised for probably wasn't that much of an effort. Everything seems so pointless.

I hope that time will heal, and that I survive the time it takes.

Cris

Edited by pharm30, 08 August 2011 - 06:22 PM.

[crispian]

Talk to someone, that's what everything says. Say something, somewhere, somehow but just talk. So I will.

I led awake last night, well, this morning really. I had a couple of bad nights where I refused to go to sleep (not a deliberate decision per se), so I ended up going to bed at 9am, sleeping pretty much all day, annoying my wife and children as I wasn't around when they were awake, and then around 9pm after spending so long sleeping, refusing to continue sleeping, resulting in a following 9am retirement. Rinse and repeat, although this time taking my wife's advice and just going to bed/continuing to sleep through the night.

So, I led awake this morning (well, I think it was yesterday now) and not wanting to get up, I hate getting up during the hours of darkness - it disturbs my wife's sleep, she seems to forget for a while that I'm not quite right and asks "what on earth made you get up that early?!" ... that always annoys me, do I really need to explain why I do things that other's don't consider normal?

Whilst lying there, I find myself focused on thinking just how much it would hurt, running something sharp across my wrist, knowing also that it has to go downward too I envision myself doing it. I have to consider what I'll use - a black-handled kitchen knife, or a razor? How much would it hurt? I consider that I should really perform such a task in the bathroom, hanging over the tub with the shower on so that no-one has to witness a gory red mess in the morning when they get up.

Would it hurt a lot, I know it would, but would it continue to hurt whilst time passes. Would my focus go from the pain to the relief, or the sensation of losing touch with reality. Will the human condition kick in and make me panic, that instinctive drive to sustain one's being?

Then I realise that I can't do that, my kids get up before my Wife, and the trauma it would give them would be unbearable. But I still think about it.

Other times its the bottle of alcohol in the fridge and as many codeine and effexor tablets as I can get my hands on, or perhaps junking my airbag and driving badly towards a wall.

How long before the thoughts become reality, or am I just torturing myself for some stupid reason.

The lines between what I think and what I do feel blurry, like the bad stuff is winning a war of control over my willpower.

Talk to someone they say. I'm not losing a fight, I'm slowly giving it up.

[crispian]

Meh, words don't do thoughts real justice, they don't smell, they don't feel, they don't cover every detail. When writing it's all there in the mind's eye, but what ends up in print resembles nothing of that which is within.

[Moggins]

Meh, words don't do thoughts real justice, they don't smell, they don't feel, they don't cover every detail. When writing it's all there in the mind's eye, but what ends up in print resembles nothing of that which is within.

Crispian, I am sincerely sorry to read of the sheer hell you are going through right now. I felt compelled to write to you because so much of how you are thinking and what you're experiencing right now rings true to some of the problems that I have had with psychotropics.

Like you, I come from a scientific background so I can really relate to the 'SNAFU machine' thoughts you're experiencing. I've worked in the ITC space so I've gleaned a fair idea from what you've written about the cognitive deficits you are experiencing with day-to-day stuff like MMIs. (I get major internet "white-outs" at times, for example.)

I don't know anything about the sleep apnea, but an acquaintance of mine was recently diagnosed with same and he has had a lifelong history of depression. I've had major sleep disruption for the best part of 5 years myself due to PTSD problems (after a car crash). and associated anxiety and depression problems. There is an increasing body of evidence that sleep disorders play a major role in depression, but I think some of the psychotropics that you are taking may be compounding your problems. I think there is a distinct possibility that the thoughts going through your mind right now are being fuelled by the medications. I experienced very similar, really 'alien', thinking after being switched from one SSRI to another, and it was truly the most frightening thing I've ever experienced And I felt violated by them. In an effort to give you some small gleam of possibility, I just want to share with you the news that, since I stopped taking the medication, my thinking is not nearly so bleak.So much of what you describe in your thinking reads like an advert for psychotropic-induced apathy, and IMO no amount of CBT is going to conquer that.

A couple of questions:

1: Have you ever been prescribed sertraline (Zoloft/Lustral), or fluoxetine (Prozac)? If yes, how did you get on with them?

2. How long have you been taking Effexor? What mid-dose withdrawal problems do you experience?

3. How long have you been on benzos? And why were they prescribed for headaches?

4. Have you only gone to the one psychiatrist? What's your gut instinct about how clued-up your psychiatrist is?

You obvkously know the neuroscience and evolutionary biology. Please keep reminding yourself that so much of what you're thinking and not feeling at the moment could be down to iatrogenic effects. Please post again to let us know how you are doing. And remind yourself that even if most of your thinking is really screwy at the moment, there is also that part of your mind that still loves your family and actively wants things to be different. In reading your words, I can hear the fighter in you. Even if you don't feel like posting right now (although I hope that you will post), please get an appointment with your psychiatrist ASAP.