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Are depressed people more intelligent than other people?


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#41 jeffster84

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 06:31 AM

Did y'all never just get bored by being surrounded by idiots? Not feel stiumulated. That's what makes me depressed!
If a pencil rolls, is it still stationary?

#42 tlmorowsky

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 06:45 AM

Did y'all never just get bored by being surrounded by idiots? Not feel stiumulated. That's what makes me depressed!


As funny as that sounds, no joke! I don't mean in a mean way. I agree in that the people I feel depressed or anzious around has no idea about so much in life. They seem to be nieve.. or not in tune to the things that are important in life.. the things that make us "artistic"

#43 tlmorowsky

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 06:52 AM

CHILDREN OF BIPOLAR PARENTS SCORE HIGHER ON CREATIVITY TEST, STANFORD STUDY FINDS

STANFORD, Calif. – Researchers at the Stanford University School of Medicine have shown for the first time that a sample of children who either have or are at high risk for bipolar disorder score higher on a creativity index than healthy children. The findings add to existing evidence that a link exists between mood disorders and creativity.
The small study, published in the November issue of the Journal of Psychiatric Research, compared creativity test scores of children of healthy parents with the scores of children of bipolar parents. Children with the bipolar parents—even those who were not bipolar themselves—scored higher than the healthy children.
“I think it’s fascinating,” said Kiki Chang, MD, assistant professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and co-author of the paper. “There is a reason that many people who have bipolar disorder become very successful, and these findings address the positive aspects of having this illness.”

Many scientists believe that a relationship exists between creativity and bipolar disorder, which was formerly called manic-depressive illness and is marked by dramatic shifts in a person’s mood, energy and ability to function. Numerous studies have examined this link; several have shown that artists and writers may have two to three times more incidences of psychosis, mood disorders or suicide when compared with people in less creative professions.
Terence Ketter, MD, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and a study co-author, said he became interested in the link between mental illness and creativity after noticing that patients who came through the bipolar clinic, despite having problems, were extraordinarily bright, motivated people who “tended to lead interesting lives.” He began a scholarly pursuit of this link and in 2002 published a study that showed healthy artists were more similar in personality to individuals with bipolar disorder (the majority of whom were on medication) than to healthy people in the general population.

Some researchers believe that bipolar disorder or mania, a defining symptom of the disease, causes creative activity. Ketter said he believes that bipolar patients’ creativity stems from their mobilizing energy that results from negative emotion to initiate some sort of solution to their problems. “In this case, discontent is the mother of invention,” he said.
The researchers point out that creativity and bipolar may have important genetic components that are transmitted together inter-generationally. There have only been limited studies investigating this; the Stanford study is the first to specifically examine creativity in the offspring of bipolar parents.

CHILDREN OF BIPOLAR PARENTS SCORE HIGHER ON CREATIVITY TEST, STANFORD STUDY FINDS

STANFORD, Calif. – Researchers at the Stanford University School of Medicine have shown for the first time that a sample of children who either have or are at high risk for bipolar disorder score higher on a creativity index than healthy children. The findings add to existing evidence that a link exists between mood disorders and creativity.

The small study, published in the November issue of the Journal of Psychiatric Research, compared creativity test scores of children of healthy parents with the scores of children of bipolar parents. Children with the bipolar parents—even those who were not bipolar themselves—scored higher than the healthy children.

“I think it’s fascinating,” said Kiki Chang, MD, assistant professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and co-author of the paper. “There is a reason that many people who have bipolar disorder become very successful, and these findings address the positive aspects of having this illness.”

Many scientists believe that a relationship exists between creativity and bipolar disorder, which was formerly called manic-depressive illness and is marked by dramatic shifts in a person’s mood, energy and ability to function. Numerous studies have examined this link; several have shown that artists and writers may have two to three times more incidences of psychosis, mood disorders or suicide when compared with people in less creative professions.

Terence Ketter, MD, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and a study co-author, said he became interested in the link between mental illness and creativity after noticing that patients who came through the bipolar clinic, despite having problems, were extraordinarily bright, motivated people who “tended to lead interesting lives.” He began a scholarly pursuit of this link and in 2002 published a study that showed healthy artists were more similar in personality to individuals with bipolar disorder (the majority of whom were on medication) than to healthy people in the general population.

Some researchers believe that bipolar disorder or mania, a defining symptom of the disease, causes creative activity. Ketter said he believes that bipolar patients’ creativity stems from their mobilizing energy that results from negative emotion to initiate some sort of solution to their problems. “In this case, discontent is the mother of invention,” he said.

The researchers point out that creativity and bipolar may have important genetic components that are transmitted together inter-generationally. There have only been limited studies investigating this; the Stanford study is the first to specifically examine creativity in the offspring of bipolar parents.

During the study, the researchers looked at creative characteristics in 40 bipolar patients and 40 offspring, comparing them with 18 healthy adults and 18 healthy offspring. The children in the study ranged in age from 10 to 18. Half of the children of bipolar patients also had bipolar disorder; the other half had attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or ADHD, which appears to be an early sign of bipolar disorder in offspring of parents with the condition. The majority of participants with bipolar or ADHD were on medication.
The researchers included children with ADHD so they could study creativity before the onset of full bipolar disorder. “We wanted to see whether having a manic episode is necessary for this sort of creativity,” said Chang, who also directs the Pediatric Bipolar Disorders Program at Lucile Packard Children’s Hospital.

Study participants were given psychiatric evaluations and then completed the Barron-Welsh Art Scale, or BWAS, a test that seeks to provide an objective measure of creativity. The scoring is based on “like” and “dislike” responses to figures of varying complexity and symmetry; past studies suggest that creative people tend to dislike the simple and symmetric symbols.

The researchers found that the bipolar parents had 120 percent higher BWAS “dislike” scores than the healthy parents. The children with bipolar and the children with ADHD had, respectively, 107 and 91 percent higher BWAS dislike scores than the healthy children.

“The results of this study support an association between bipolar disease and creativity and contribute to a better understanding of possible mechanisms of transmission of creativity in families with genetic susceptibility for bipolar disease,” the researchers wrote in their paper
The researchers had hypothesized that the scores of children with ADHD would differ significantly from the scores of bipolar children so they were surprised when the scores did not. Chang said this indicates that mania is not what is fueling the creativity. “The kids with ADHD who hadn’t been manic yet still had very high levels of creativity,” he said.

The researchers had hypothesized that the scores of children with ADHD would differ significantly from the scores of bipolar children so they were surprised when the scores did not. Chang said this indicates that mania is not what is fueling the creativity. “The kids with ADHD who hadn’t been manic yet still had very high levels of creativity,” he said.

The researchers also found a link between the length of a bipolar child’s illness and creativity: the longer a child was sick or manic, the lower the BWAS dislike score. It makes sense, Chang said, that this illness could, over time, erode one’s creativity. “After awhile you aren’t able to function and you can’t access your creativity,” he explained.

BWAS dislike scores tend to decrease with age even in healthy individuals, so more research is needed, Ketter said. Further studies are also needed to assess the role of genetic and environmental factors in creativity and bipolar, he added. The team plans to next examine whether the degree of creativity in parents correlates with the degree of creativity in their children.
SOURCE: This study was funded by the Heinz C. Prechter Fund for Manic Depression, a NAR-SAD Young Investigators Award, a Klingenstein Third Generation Foundation Fellowship and the National Institutes of Health

#44 Moonlight_Magic

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 07:25 AM

i dont have a problem with people pursuing their passion, its more the people who tout their intelligence and just wait for their welfare check every month.



oh i dont know, if you look at it another way, they are getting something for free, and that doesnt seem entirely stupid to me.

and of course as they dont work, they have lots of free time to pursue their passion in the process.

Not that im advocating welfare as i dont know the system in the USA. Personally in the UK, as a single parent im better off not working at this time.

So i stay at home, look after my child and use my free time to follow my passions instead.

I also use this time to look into career avenues and job options for when i do return to work.

The intelligent thing to do is to always follow the route that is the most advantageous at the time :hearts:

If i went out to work at this time, it would be the stupid thing to do. When my child is older then i shall change my approach, but not just yet.

Edited by Angelofshadows, 04 May 2006 - 08:08 AM.

"Oneday your prince will find you, mine just got lost on the way and was too stubborn to ask for directions!" (annoymous)

All quotes below by me and whomever happened to come up with them before i did (lol):

"Beneath the pessimism that is depression im an eternal optimist, so please don't be fooled by my seeming negativity!" *ahem*

"Finding acceptance from the world around us, begins with finding acceptance of the self".

"You dont have to achieve great things to be a great person!"

"On the road of life im a sunday driver. Im taking the scenic route at a speed im comfortable with. So if you want to overtake me, please feel free, but dont keep beeping your horn at me, its irritating. Thankyou"

#45 Moonlight_Magic

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 07:59 AM

Did y'all never just get bored by being surrounded by idiots? Not feel stiumulated.



I dont really get bored of my own company, no

And im perfectly capable of stimulating myself, thanks.
"Oneday your prince will find you, mine just got lost on the way and was too stubborn to ask for directions!" (annoymous)

All quotes below by me and whomever happened to come up with them before i did (lol):

"Beneath the pessimism that is depression im an eternal optimist, so please don't be fooled by my seeming negativity!" *ahem*

"Finding acceptance from the world around us, begins with finding acceptance of the self".

"You dont have to achieve great things to be a great person!"

"On the road of life im a sunday driver. Im taking the scenic route at a speed im comfortable with. So if you want to overtake me, please feel free, but dont keep beeping your horn at me, its irritating. Thankyou"

#46 Moonlight_Magic

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 08:00 AM

I see things that are much more relevant to getting rich as: greed, self-esteem/ego, competitiveness, a willingness to take advantage of others to get what you want, looks, a good financial starting point, and luck.


here here!!
"Oneday your prince will find you, mine just got lost on the way and was too stubborn to ask for directions!" (annoymous)

All quotes below by me and whomever happened to come up with them before i did (lol):

"Beneath the pessimism that is depression im an eternal optimist, so please don't be fooled by my seeming negativity!" *ahem*

"Finding acceptance from the world around us, begins with finding acceptance of the self".

"You dont have to achieve great things to be a great person!"

"On the road of life im a sunday driver. Im taking the scenic route at a speed im comfortable with. So if you want to overtake me, please feel free, but dont keep beeping your horn at me, its irritating. Thankyou"

#47 Timeiswhat

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 12:21 PM

As I read through this thread, I am seeiing one thing very similar.....we have all thought this. I believe there is truth in it so let me explain why....
Someone once told me that a blind man can usually see better than average and a deaf man tends to have 20/20 vision by nature.... this is because when God takes away one of your senses, he inhances another....hence, if depressed people have the issues that we all have, then we should by nature be stronger with something else.

Only problem with my theory is that I can't prove it. I can't identify my inner strength.(yet) What about you guys....any hidden strengths that surpass average out there?


Hey Angel of Shadows, I have that painting above my bed.

Anyway, I'm a musician, and have apparantly picked up music unusually quickly. Does that count? Also, I have a really good auditory memory. I can still remember exact conversations I had five years ago, down to the inflections and vocal tones of those involved. It sortof freaks people out sometimes, because they don't think I'm listening to what they're talking about, but later, when they can't even remember what they said, I can tell them exactly what it was. Sometimes my auditory memories are so strong, I almost think they're real (happening right now). Eg. I'll hear a song one day, and the next morning, I keep thinking it's playing even though no radios are on.

Also, I was pulled from my Kindergarten class because I was learning faster than the other kids. There were no special programs in my school, so they had to put me in seperate lessons. After that, I transferred to a better school, where I was again stuck in a pull-out class. I've been in AC and IB ever since. Mind you, some of the kids in IB are still not that intelligent. You can get in if you're a hard worker too. You just need high grades.

I have several disorders (apparantly) though. I've been diagnosed for depression/bipolar disorder (they haven't figured out which yet), general anxiety, panic disorder, OCD, and ADD. So I have a few factors besides depression.

I'm not sure the blind person analogy works here... Depressed people aren't necessarily "missing" anything, are they? It makes sense that if a person is missing one sense, the rest are strengthened: Their concentration isn't being divided as much as if they had all their senses. It isn't really the same for depressed people though, is it? I guess though, our concentration *is* being divided differently. We don't pay as much attention to everyday things, I think. I know I don't... Things like clothes, hair, television. I do think that there is a link between depression and intelligence, generally. I'm just not sure that this is the best way of expression the relationship.

#48 TwilightZephyr

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 02:44 PM

jeffster84 -- I never get bored with "idiots" no one is really a complete *****. You'd be suprised at the other gifts people without smarts have...like more compassion. You can always learn something from everyone. Granted there are times I feel surrounded by idiots...but mostly because I think my country has way to many of them in high places.

tlmorowsky -- that was an interesting read...my mother was/is manic-depressive. I feel anything but creative...lol. I have no talent for creativity...so maybe it is more an evironment thing.

bint_button81 -- I think everyone has strengths and talents to compensate for what they lack. I actually think that one of the reasons a deaf man's sight or whatnot is strengthened because their body has one less strength to use, so it moves the focus and work to other areas. Try closing your eyes, and see if you don't become more aware of what you are hearing.

#49 Moonlight_Magic

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 11:19 AM

I'm not sure the blind person analogy works here... Depressed people aren't necessarily "missing" anything, are they? It makes sense that if a person is missing one sense, the rest are strengthened: Their concentration isn't being divided as much as if they had all their senses. It isn't really the same for depressed people though, is it? I guess though, our concentration *is* being divided differently. We don't pay as much attention to everyday things, I think. I know I don't... Things like clothes, hair, television. I do think that there is a link between depression and intelligence, generally. I'm just not sure that this is the best way of expression the relationship.


I agree with your point and wonder perhaps if they are, in a sense, talking about the concept of balance? For every negative there is a positive etc and all that? A lot of philosophies are based on it, negative/positive, good/evil, yin/yang, light/dark, night/day and all the shades of grey inbetween.

For every injustice there is a justice, for every sorrow there is a joy and so on and so forth. All in all coming together to create balance.

and there might even be a little splash of karma in there too.

im rambling now so im going to shut up whilst i think im making sense :D

Edited by Enigmatic_Soul, 05 May 2006 - 11:50 AM.

"Oneday your prince will find you, mine just got lost on the way and was too stubborn to ask for directions!" (annoymous)

All quotes below by me and whomever happened to come up with them before i did (lol):

"Beneath the pessimism that is depression im an eternal optimist, so please don't be fooled by my seeming negativity!" *ahem*

"Finding acceptance from the world around us, begins with finding acceptance of the self".

"You dont have to achieve great things to be a great person!"

"On the road of life im a sunday driver. Im taking the scenic route at a speed im comfortable with. So if you want to overtake me, please feel free, but dont keep beeping your horn at me, its irritating. Thankyou"

#50 DuckDodger

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 12:25 PM

I won't try to make a guess as to whether depressed people are more intelligent than the average population or that intelligent people have a greater tendency to be depressed. Without solid, empirical evidence, it would be a mistake to try. But, even though I am not qualified to comment, I will try anyway. I am throwing my two cents in because this is an extremely fascinating topic, but I'll let you draw any conclusions you want.

(Warning: This post is longer than I planned, so let the reader beware. And sorry.)

First, about me:

The best I have been able to ascertain is that I have been depressed since fairly early childhood (3,4,5 or so). This is based on memories of my behavior then. The depression became worse to the point of incapacitation at times when I was in high school. I don't know if there is a connection to my intelligence. My IQ has tested high but with different results at different times (probably a difference in testing methods). When I was a kid, my parents had me tested and the supposed result was 170. I think that result was a bit too high. My most recent test, a couple of years ago, was 147. I have a strange mix of right-brained thinking that connects well to the left brain in some areas. In standardized testing in school, I pegged the top in math areas, yet made absolutely crappy grades in math. I tested well in verbal and visual skills, the two areas I have actually used professionally. Visual orientation is very strong in me, either a result or a cause of my ADD. I understand visual cues in learning faster than oral. I understand written instructions better than oral. All that is connected with ADD.

This all tied together for me in a number of ways. For example, I understand pretty well many of the basic concepts of both quantum and relativisitic theories of the physical universe. But it's visual. In my head, I see it and get it. If I had to explain what I understand, I would have do it with visual representations. But I could never do the math or be a physicist. I am in awe of the whizes who can and are.

I can remember the faces of everyone I have ever met and the sound of every song I have heard. I can't tell you the name of someone I met last week or the title of a song that was on the radio a hundred times this month.

When I define myself (in a vocational sense and apart from what I am currently doing for a living), I say I am a media person, a communicator. I think I am best at taking information and concepts and converting them to messages that help people understand them. I have worked in newspaper, radio, television and now internet -- all communication media. The problem is that right now, I am working as a contract application programmer, which puts me right on the cusp of what I can do and what I am not qualified to do (remember my crappy math grades?). Where I excel in this is taking what a client's goals are, the business to be done on the web, and creating interfaces that are intuitive and understandable. I am good enough at programming, but there are far more people out there who are better trained, better qualified. The interesting thing to note here is that I have worked with those guys, and to a man, they would excel in programming skills, able to kick my coding butt in a single bound, and yet totally blow at communicating with customers and developing interfaces that could be understood and used by anybody but themselves.

So how does this connect to my depression?

Someone once said that "depression is rage suppressed." I don't know about rage, but I do think that one factor in MY depression is that I feel stuck in the wrong vocational box and I don't know how to get out without losing my house and starving for a while. Here I am, fighting my demons, trying to work at programming (which I have done for more than 7 years), and yet it is NOT what I would be doing if I could snap my fingers. I would rather write... talk about the human condition... about us and how the things we say and do have a profound effect on the people around us and spreading exponentially to others as time moves on. But I am not. Instead, I am stuck in a box with no visible way out.

Is my depression connected to my intelligence?

Only in that my mind works in certain ways and although I want to accomodate it, I don't see how I can and that contributes to my affliction. So the depression is not a consequence of my intelligence (or the other way around). My depression is a consequence of my psychic conflict. One part of my brain KNOWS where I am supposed to be right now and wants it more than anything else. Another part of my brain can't figure out how to get there and feels trapped. So the part in between seems unable to resolve this dilemma and I live in pain as a result.

What can I do about it?

I try to spend a little time working on things I would like to do: outlining story or article ideas, researching and making notes and working on ideas for illustrations. But I feel conflicted doing that because I know there is "real" work on the table waiting to be done, clients wondering where it is and many, many bills to pay. So I usually shut off after just a few minutes; it's like my demon throws a switch that I cannot reach. So I usually end up just sitting here, paralyzed.

What about others?

Do I think other people have the same experience? I can't say. When I read posts here, the one thing I see that thay all have in common is the internal conflict each person suffers. Everyone one here seems intelligent enough, maybe some know more about some stuff than others, but I don't see a correlation between their verbal abilities, knowledge they may have or any other IQ indicator and the degree to which they suffer from depression. The main difference may not be whether people of different intelligence suffer depression, but rather how the symptoms manifest themselves and how they deal with the affliction. The biggest difference that may make is that some people, based on how other things in their lives have gone, will have better options for care than others, such as better insurance (or any at all), different notions about any stigma mental health issues have, etc.

One thing for sure, we are all very, very different from each other. Just read the RX posts. For any given drug you will see a variety of responses and side effects. I think that is an indicator of why depression has both similar and variable effects on each of us. Our brains, no matter how you measure intelligence, are so different (and thank God for that, eh?) that we will have different stressors, chemistries and triggers.

My version of the bottom line

With apologies to the real estate industry, the common denominator is:

CONFLICT, CONFLICT, CONFLICT.

Edited by DuckDodger, 04 October 2006 - 12:37 PM.

"You, my friend, are a victim of disorganized thinking. You are under the unfortunate impression that just because you run away you have no courage; you're confusing courage with wisdom."
The Wizard of Oz

"If you want to see God laugh, tell him your plans."
John Chancellor

Don't worry about global warming, Earthlings:
"I'm going to blow it up. It obstructs my view of Venus."
Marvin Martian

#51 mkc

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 04:41 PM

I don't know about others, but I got straight A's. People think I am intelligent. ( Open to question LOL ) I'm depressed for reasons I can't really put my finger on. Perhaps I think too much, I try to find a reason for things, I ponder, I feel restless, I feel lots of people just do such stupid things and I end up asking the question "What's the point?". Ignorance would be bliss IMO. I wish I thought less.

Edited by mkc, 04 October 2006 - 04:42 PM.


#52 DeeBear

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 08:33 PM

I don't know about others, but I got straight A's. People think I am intelligent. ( Open to question LOL ) I'm depressed for reasons I can't really put my finger on. Perhaps I think too much, I try to find a reason for things, I ponder, I feel restless, I feel lots of people just do such stupid things and I end up asking the question "What's the point?". Ignorance would be bliss IMO. I wish I thought less.


Hey everybody,

I seem to remember a study a few years ago that seemed to suggest a link with intellingence and increased risk of depression, but if memory serves correct it was speculated that intelligent people also often have problems socializing, and that this may be the real reason.

Also, look at this page, this guy presents another possibility:

http://www.prweb.com...5/prweb8071.htm

Don't know that I buy it, but there you are.
I'm not a complete *****. Some parts are missing.
Please don't drive me crazy. I can walk from here.
If life is a joke, then I don't get it.
I'm just mentally ill. It's the rest of the world that's crazy.
Posted ImagePosted Image

#53 Every

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 03:19 AM

I honestly have no idea, i doubt it. People generally tell me i'm stupid. On the other hand my average academic grade is an A. Universities love me, the general public tends to hate me.

Im book smart im not street smart. I see things differently to a lot of people. I dont fit in, and i suffer from social phobia as a result. Because of my social phobia and the fact that i sometimes feel isolated (lonely), that can sometimes play a role in my depression. No social network to fall back on when i need help on you see, generally i have to cope on my own becuase i dont always have anyone to turn to for support. Im a single parent and i cant work at this time, so im stuck at home all day aswell. That doesnt help.

Mind you im just weird full stop, regardless of how well i do at academics. These days, i tend to veer more towards creative pursuits than i do academics although i still have an interest in a variety of subjects. I find that creative pursuits give me more of an outlet for self expression than do academics. That helps me channel my emotions into something positive.

EQ may play a stronger role than IQ, although according to most tests my EQ is above average as is my IQ. (i do these tests for fun because i enjoy doing them). Then again, more often than not in most tests ive taken the right answers have been pretty easy to guess using basic common sense.

But just because i know what i should be doing, it doesnt always mean im going to do it! Its like hoovering, i know i have to get up and do it at somepoint, but on the other hand i might decide to procrastinate for hours on end instead.

Actually if anything id say my depression (other than being a chemical imbalance) is more closely linked to my idealistic nature. Im an idealist, a perfectionist and when i look outside i see s***.

Im also highly sensitive, oversensitive at times infact.

The realist in me knows that the real world is nothing like my ideals, but all the same, its still disappointing when you realise that, at times, reality really does bite. I used to say "depressives are not depressed because they are depressives, depressives are depressed because they see the world for what it is". Obviously i cant speak for all those with a mood disorder, but when i came up with that quote i was refering to myself.

These days i try and keep my strange illogical quotes more optimistic in nature (like the one on my sigline).

Add to that im a romantic thats not had much luck in love and voila, one depressed and incredibly lonesome soul crying out for something to fill the huge void it feels is consuming it, with something meaningful, if only it knew what that was.

Passion, it has something to do with passion (not nessacerily of a sexual nature), i need to find something i have passion for.

Creative pursuits i find come closer to filling that gap than academics did, as much as i love them; And chocolate icecream doesnt fill the gap at all (so ive discovered). Well ok it does for an hour and half or so, but my waist line is starting to complain a bit now, or rather my jeans are!

On the other hand it could be i dont fit in cause i insist on telling bog awful jokes. If i didnt find myself funny id stop.

So to sum up im a perfectionistic, oversensitive idealistic romantic thats prone to depression and social phobia with an above average IQ and EQ (according to the tests ive taken) so its no wonder im just plain weird then. Me thinks i should have been a poet or some such. Actually i had some poetry published once, actually three times, but i stopped writing years ago. Got a block, still got the block, had the block for years. It was awful poetry anyway.

Anyway, enough whinning, but depression may be linked to specific personality traits. Ive not looked into it.

On the other hand both my parents suffered with depression and anxiety, so maybe i just got a faulty gene or something.


I can relate with so much of what you just said...and I just wanted to say your post brightened my day, you seem like a beautiful person and I hope you find what it is you are looking for.

Misfit, I also related a lot to your post. Growing up, I always got through school with good enough grades even though I didn't really consciously apply myself. Nowadays i'd say my intelligence is waning, I'm not as active as I once was and I seem to have lost a lot of my interest in things, so naturally my brain is in a kind of rut. And the kicker? If I wasn't depressed than perhaps I would be more involved. I won't make any generalised statement about intelligent people more likely to become depressed, but I will say that the two are inextricably linked.
We will be again, another time
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#54 illusion

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 08:47 AM

I´m not sure if there is any connection between depression and IQ. but I think it´s clear that depression or any other form of mental problems make creative, maybe because the brain tries to find ways to cope with it. I also think that depressed people arent as naive as "normal" people. They think more about things and look deeper into meanings instead of just taking whatever is given to them.

#55 honeyeyes

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 12:32 AM

I couldn´t care less about intelligence. If that is true, I want to be the dumiest people on earth. lol

#56 robstahlobstah

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 08:06 PM

I think about that all the time and wonder if that is the case. Sometimes I feel like the people walking around are in a fog and don't see what is really going on around them.

#57 lonleysindy

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 08:14 PM

there's a fine line between genius and crazy...lol
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#58 Giselle09

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 05:02 AM

Hi Moonlight Magic,

I´m new to Depression Forum and I decided to join after reading the post below. I was doing a search on Google about intelligence and its relation to depression and I related to your piece very much, -I feel quite excited about this because I´ve been looking for someone to relate to in depth for years, however I don´t want to be too enthusiastic about it because it has happened to me in the past that I feel `similar to someone with same problems´, but later felt disappointed to find out differences.

I hope it makes sense to you what I´m saying, I´m a bit confused because your name appears as the person that has posted the piece, but it says at the end of it that has been edited by angelofshadow. How is that?

I related to this part of the piece; "Actually if anything id say my depression (other than being a chemical imbalance) is more closely linked to my idealistic nature. I’m an idealist, a perfectionist and when I look outside I see s***."

Well, I don´t feel depressed at the moment, but it’s easy for me to go into it mildly and has always been the case, although I had a couple of very bad bouts. I had most of my life liked and connected with a certain type of people, that I´m not really sure how to describe; weirdoes? `roughish´, charming, attractive types that I considered `interesting and feel certain degrees of disdain -unfortunately, but I´m honest here- for anyone else I do not consider `atractive´or `interesting´, it is very important for me the looks of people and if they feel or think similar to me. All this is a rough summary of the parts of my personality I have difficulties with, I ´ve got nice bits too, but I´m here to talk about the difficult ones. I also think I ´ve suffered from a superiority and inferiority complex depending of the circumstances. I´m a bit concerned that you may be thinking that you are not like me and may want to distance from me right now, but well I´m just taking the chance. I also felt related to the following part;

"The realist in me knows that the real world is nothing like my ideals, but all the same, its still disappointing when you realise that, at times, reality really does bite"

I´ve found myself to be quite critical of people and feel disappointed of them easily which is one of the causes of my depression. I do have friends around, but I feel they distance themselves from me at some stages or definitely sometimes and I imagine this is because of the way I am and because I may alienate them. I´m Spanish and had lived in England for more 14 years.

Do you relate to some of the points I´ve made? Do you know of anyone that has similar difficulties?


Looking forward to hearing from you,

Giselle 09




[aquote name='Angelofshadows' date='May 1 2006, 08:12 PM' post='112328']
I honestly have no idea, i doubt it. People generally tell me i'm stupid. On the other hand my average academic grade is an A. Universities love me, the general public tends to hate me.

Im book smart im not street smart. I see things differently to a lot of people. I dont fit in, and i suffer from social phobia as a result. Because of my social phobia and the fact that i sometimes feel isolated (lonely), that can sometimes play a role in my depression. No social network to fall back on when i need help on you see, generally i have to cope on my own becuase i dont always have anyone to turn to for support. Im a single parent and i cant work at this time, so im stuck at home all day aswell. That doesnt help.

Mind you im just weird full stop, regardless of how well i do at academics. These days, i tend to veer more towards creative pursuits than i do academics although i still have an interest in a variety of subjects. I find that creative pursuits give me more of an outlet for self expression than do academics. That helps me channel my emotions into something positive.

EQ may play a stronger role than IQ, although according to most tests my EQ is above average as is my IQ. (i do these tests for fun because i enjoy doing them). Then again, more often than not in most tests ive taken the right answers have been pretty easy to guess using basic common sense.

But just because i know what i should be doing, it doesnt always mean im going to do it! Its like hoovering, i know i have to get up and do it at somepoint, but on the other hand i might decide to procrastinate for hours on end instead.

Actually if anything id say my depression (other than being a chemical imbalance) is more closely linked to my idealistic nature. Im an idealist, a perfectionist and when i look outside i see s***.

Im also highly sensitive, oversensitive at times infact.

The realist in me knows that the real world is nothing like my ideals, but all the same, its still disappointing when you realise that, at times, reality really does bite. I used to say "depressives are not depressed because they are depressives, depressives are depressed because they see the world for what it is". Obviously i cant speak for all those with a mood disorder, but when i came up with that quote i was refering to myself.

These days i try and keep my strange illogical quotes more optimistic in nature (like the one on my sigline).

Add to that im a romantic thats not had much luck in love and voila, one depressed and incredibly lonesome soul crying out for something to fill the huge void it feels is consuming it, with something meaningful, if only it knew what that was.

Passion, it has something to do with passion (not nessacerily of a sexual nature), i need to find something i have passion for.

Creative pursuits i find come closer to filling that gap than academics did, as much as i love them; And chocolate icecream doesnt fill the gap at all (so ive discovered). Well ok it does for an hour and half or so, but my waist line is starting to complain a bit now, or rather my jeans are!

On the other hand it could be i dont fit in cause i insist on telling bog awful jokes. If i didnt find myself funny id stop.

So to sum up im a perfectionistic, oversensitive idealistic romantic thats prone to depression and social phobia with an above average IQ and EQ (according to the tests ive taken) so its no wonder im just plain weird then. Me thinks i should have been a poet or some such. Actually i had some poetry published once, actually three times, but i stopped writing years ago. Got a block, still got the block, had the block for years. It was awful poetry anyway.

Anyway, enough whinning, but depression may be linked to specific personality traits. Ive not looked into it.

On the other hand both my parents suffered with depression and anxiety, so maybe i just got a faulty gene or something.
[/quote]

#59 iapyx20

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:49 AM

Wow, this thread turned nasty at some point. :P I didn't read the whole thing. I think the "intelligent people are more prone to depression" thing could be true. I don't personally believe I'm intelligent at all, but I've been told I was all my life. My IQ is 160, I guess. I did a lot of thinking before I became depressed, and I think my thinking was part of what made me depressed. I think sometimes people overanalyze things because they expect an outcome before actually weighing the situation, and think themselves directly into that hole, causing depression. Then when they realize they've trapped themselves in their thoughts, they're depressed because nobody else has a suitable answer.....................I think a lot of my depression went away when I stopped thinking about everything. I guess even average joe could do the same thing, but it might take him a few more seconds....I don't think the correlation is necessarily between intelligence and depression, I think it's between thinking and depression. Intelligence doesn't require thought; it should already have an answer, or need only a simple weighing of facts. I think the word we use for depressed people is "ruminating".

Edited by iapyx20, 31 July 2009 - 11:58 AM.


#60 Guest_CH1980_*

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:56 AM

Guys I have been thinking and I have been thinking that people with depression, from the people I have met, are very intelligent people but are depressed because they cannot cope with normal society because normal society doesn't have the level of intelligence depressed people have. Could this be true? Every depressed person I have met possesses a higher intelligence than the normal person in society. Could it be their mind has progressed pass the simple thoughts of a normal person therefore it is hard for them to socialize with normal society?

I think the real reason depressed people find it hard to socialize is because of low self esteem. If it was intelligence, then every highly intelligent person would have trouble socializing—not just the depressed intelligent people.

#61 iapyx20

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:58 AM

Actually, I was just thinking about it a little more while I stepped out. Intelligent people could be prone to depression because they seek a deeper, richer, more satisfying life, and the simpler folk are content with less, which makes it hard to relate. That leaves them on their own to ruminate. :wink:

Edited by iapyx20, 31 July 2009 - 11:59 AM.


#62 brakeit

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 11:11 AM

What leads one person to depression not necessarily will lead another. That's why I don't think intelligence(-s) is an "issue" :) . Some people tend to feel helpless about one thing, some about another. The thing with higher intelligence is, that these people tend to be more alone with their perceptions, views and opinions (oh, these all kind of are the same,heh).
We all cope differently. We get depressed about different things.
We all want to be happy.. so WHATEVER makes you happy! Really. But do you even know what it is? :)
I agree about the "thinking" thought out there by the 160 genius person :) and here perfectly fits the famous just do it. Thinking unfortunately isn't doing.

Edited by brakeit, 01 May 2010 - 11:12 AM.


#63 Guest_bravetwilight_*

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 06:36 PM

I haven't read every post on this thread yet. But what I have read made me question the word, intelligence. What do we mean by using the word intelligent anyway? Smarter than the average person? smarter in all areas of life? or just smarter in certain areas of life.

This idea that depressives are more intelligent is such a hot topic that it could easily burn up this website! HA.

And yet, I too have often wondered about this. Kay Redfield Jamison's books come to mind quickly when these kind of topics come up. Her studies on the creative impulse being more developed in mentally ill, mostly depression, are ground breaking for the psycological field.
She proves that the artistic creative impulse is brought forward more in depressed people than mentally healthy people. So is this the kind of intelligence we are discussing here or is it the kind of intelligence that comes with analyzing and dissecting, strategies and so on. For me, it all comes back to that artistic factor that is more developed, more energized in the depressed brain.

I think using "intelligence" is a sticky word. It is vague and broad in it's different meanings. So this is a hard question to answer without going into all the research and scientific studies that have been going on for decades about this very subject. But it has been proven that the creative mind is linked to depression, specifically bi-polar. My goodness look at all the great writers...most of them have some form of depression and many committed suicide. Musicians, poets, painters, dancers, writers, scientists, strategists, philosophers, prophets, ......all have an understanding of the abstract in life. But do we presume that all artists are depressed, that all intelligent people have some form of depression? That's a no- no right? But it seems to me that whenever I come across a great mind, there is great suffering at the same time.

bravetwilight

#64 boatpoet

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 10:00 PM

Guys I have been thinking and I have been thinking that people with depression, from the people I have met, are very intelligent people but are depressed because they cannot cope with normal society because normal society doesn't have the level of intelligence depressed people have. Could this be true? Every depressed person I have met possesses a higher intelligence than the normal person in society. Could it be their mind has progressed pass the simple thoughts of a normal person therefore it is hard for them to socialize with normal society?

I've definitely thought this at points. (I've thought, at times) that my mind does work in a much different way than other peoples, and maybe in some ways more advanced. But if that is true, I definitely think that it has an effect on making a depression worse. When I'm depressed I often over-think things, analyze every word that people say, and probably think about things more in-depth than other people may. But I think it might just be that depressed people know their minds so well and how far their minds can go because they are experiencing it so acutely, and sometimes they're unable to relate to people in a way so that they understand the depth of other peoples' minds as well. After all, we only know what it is like to live in our own minds, and other people may have even more advanced, or intelligent thoughts.
But now that I'm fairly well I don't seem to think this. Maybe it' the kind of thought, some self-delusion or something, that a lot of people have when they're depressed.
However, I must say, that at my most depressed state/ when I'm in the deepest part of my depression, my mind does not work better or more intelligently than others. I can barely think at all.
Those are my thoughts, at least.

#65 jimbow15

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 11:25 PM

Hi,

Well my own view is that depression effects people from every walk of like,c rich and poor alike, regardless of intelligence.

Best Wishes

Jim Bow
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert E.


Information supplied on Depression Forums by members should not be relied upon and is not a substitute for medical advice from a health professional or doctor.

#66 Randomblahnomina

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 03:09 PM

Hey, I just found this topic off a google search, and I'd like to throw my two cents in here.

I've been labeled as "gifted", "bright", "creative", "intelligent", and what have you over the course of my life, and I'm definitely prone to becoming very depressed at times. I heard a theory somewhere (can't remember where) that more intelligent people have more active inner monologues, and are more likely to think themselves into a depressed state. I don't like to label myself as better or worse than anyone else, but I know for a fact that I'm a bit different than most other people, and that I tend to think about things a whole lot, to the point that when I try to express my ideas, I can't do so because the ideas have grown so large that I can no longer keep track of them all at once in my head.

Anyhow, on another (relevant) note, I was recently at a session with my family, where the therapist told me that I was an artist; in other words, someone who somehow sees things a bit differently than anyone else, and (in my case, so she said) has a high level of intrapersonal intelligence (or knows a lot about themself, and is very introspective). She went on to say that she viewed depression as a result of one not being able to use their abilities while getting positive results from the world around them. She told me about an experiment performed on babies, where their mothers were told to sit still and not make any facial expressions while their babies played around them. After a few hours of crying, screaming, and generally just trying to get their mothers' attention, the babies would ultimately sit down on the side of the playpen with no expression on their faces and start drooling.

Could intelligent people be the drooling babies in the experiment? Could we (I use "we" assuming I'm actually somewhat intelligent here; a lot of people seem to think so, so I'll run with it for now) just be a group of people whose talents and abilities were never appreciated? I figure "normal" people tend to find acceptance a bit easier, being that so many other people think the exact same way that they do. Maybe depressed intelligent people are missing out on something that most people today take for granted. And if so... where would they find it?

Any thoughts?
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#67 Guest_ecodweeb_*

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 02:46 PM

Hello everyone,

I also jointed this forum from a Google search on "honest people are more depressed."

Why this? I listened to this podcast:

"Please PM Member for Link"

In it, a researcher was looking to see what link there was with habitual/pathological liars and intelligence. Seems there is a link, also, mentioned briefly, a study is quoted as having found that "people who lie less are often more depressed."

I'm paraphrasing, and in a rush, I have a busy afternoon and it's about time to leave work. I've bookmarked this page and will finish reading the rest of the thread probably at lunch tomorrow. The internet tends to depress me (or some of the expressions on it...) and I try and limit my exposure off-work hours.

I hope my contribution is meaningful. I also didn't like the troll, what he or she said was really mean.

Edited by Trace, 07 October 2010 - 02:34 AM.
Link Removed as per TOS


#68 carolina_blue

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 04:58 PM

I doubt there's a correlation between intelligence and depression, but I'm sure there is between sensitivity and depression.

As far as the person who posted about an inverse relationship between intelligence and depression, he or she clearly doesn't understand depression very well. I think depression can *make* me stupid, but I don't have it because I *am* stupid. Often a depressed person may desparately want change but cannot for the life of them figure out how, and that's due to life circumstances *and* depression, not stupidity. A good ego and motivation are very important to success, and those are qualities that someone who is depressed lacks.

Edited by carolina_blue, 06 October 2010 - 04:59 PM.


#69 Lori123

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 08:11 PM

Guys I have been thinking and I have been thinking that people with depression, from the people I have met, are very intelligent people but are depressed because they cannot cope with normal society because normal society doesn't have the level of intelligence depressed people have. Could this be true? Every depressed person I have met possesses a higher intelligence than the normal person in society. Could it be their mind has progressed pass the simple thoughts of a normal person therefore it is hard for them to socialize with normal society?




I have thought this for a long time. I feel like I'm seeing the stupidity inherent in the way we live, the way our society functions. The futility of life. And most other people run around like five-year-old who just walked in the front gates to Disneyland. "Wheeeeee, this is fun!!! Yay!!!!! It's not real? Who cares!!!!!" Anytime I point out a problem with a line of thinking, like at work, I get blank stares. People don't get it at all. And I know that I'm just going to have to let whatever it is happen, and then everyone will be shocked, because they don't even have the brain capacity to remember that I tried to tell them this would happen.

I have told my husband so many times that I wish I were an *****. I'd be so much happier.

#70 csmith

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:41 PM

Yes it seems people who are suffering from this are generally more emotionally intelligent and self aware then others.

I guess the more intelligent you are,the more you see so the more you feel.

#71 Bradoonee

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 08:01 PM

Lets be quite frank depressed people generally are pretty negative and lacking in will power hence the reason they end up with depression. Certainly we over analysize and that often thwarts us. However the main reason we get depressed is simply because we're very negative. Lets not delude ourselves people and I don't say this to be a troll but we have to change our ways in order not to be like this - its really that simple.

In a way I wish I'd come to a sharper realisation about the power of being positive in the past and in part I was but equally I was very very negative too. I used to winge and moan a lot to my family although I kept that away completely from my friends and girlfriend and perhaps that all slowly started to permiate my subconscious - who knows?

Whatever is going on with me right now yes I do analysize it because I want a solution but sometimes the only solution for inner calm right here and right now is to just say it is what it is.

On a positive note those who can effectively come out of depression are surely much much stronger and wiser for it.

So join me on the other side guys ..... lets do it!! :cool:

#72 Bradoonee

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 08:13 PM

I doubt there's a correlation between intelligence and depression, but I'm sure there is between sensitivity and depression.

As far as the person who posted about an inverse relationship between intelligence and depression, he or she clearly doesn't understand depression very well. I think depression can *make* me stupid, but I don't have it because I *am* stupid. Often a depressed person may desparately want change but cannot for the life of them figure out how, and that's due to life circumstances *and* depression, not stupidity. A good ego and motivation are very important to success, and those are qualities that someone who is depressed lacks.

Yeah, pretty much agree with what you've written and I think we're mostly on the same page Ms Blue! The exception being I most certainly want to find a solution for this.

#73 Bradoonee

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 08:15 PM

I couldn´t care less about intelligence. If that is true, I want to be the dumiest people on earth. lol

Ha ha amen to dat.

#74 Helium

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 09:21 PM

I suffer from depression and I'm not intelligent. I'm actually an *****.
"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"

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#75 Babyblue_eyes

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 09:40 PM

I strongly disagree with that last statement you made stating the main cause of depression is negative thinking.

I think it's the other way around for those that continually suffer with clinical depression, ie. chemical imbalance. I believe that depression is what causes the exceedingly negative thoughts and feelings.

I believe that that line of thinking can only come from someone who has not truly experienced true clinical depression.

I used to believe that myself until I experienced it. Once you do, there is no mistaking that it is absolutely NOT something you are choosing.

Edited by Babyblue_eyes, 07 October 2010 - 09:46 PM.


#76 Lori123

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 10:01 PM

Depression changes the way I think, how I see things, the way I view the world and other people. It has changed my personality.

When you're in a bad depressive episode, it feels like you're living in a nightmare. There's a dark veil over everything, and you feel sick and exhausted. It's hard to think straight. In my most recent episode, which I'm still trying to climb out of, I tried over and over to look at positive things. To do things that make me laugh or smile. I don't give up on the idea of that being helpful. But it never changes the way I feel inside. I can hold my puppy and love on him and be thankful that I have him, and still feel this horrible emptiness, uselessness, aloneness. It makes no sense, and that's how I know I'm not controlling it. I can't stand things that don't make sense!!

Life truly is essentially pointless. But when we're basically happy, we enjoy the ride, and we (as humans) tend to imbue our experiences with meaning and purpose. Ultimately, though, I don't believe that. I don't see the point in the way humanity has set up life on this planet -- commerce, government, wars, cell phone apps, lining up for the new iPhone, Sarah Palin -- none of it makes any sense or follows any kind of logic. When you stop to intelligently dissect things and examine them in terms of usefulness and maximizing happiness, you realize that we're all just a random collection of cells, sitting here and taking up space, maybe costing other people money or inflicting misery upon them, until we die. The end. A dumb person doesn't stop to examine things like this, or give the ridiculousness of their own life a second look. They're too busy watching football or baseball, or fighting with their spouse, or getting drunk, or whatever it is they do to avoid thinking.

You'd think they'd be depressed, and maybe they are, I don't know. All I'm saying is that it takes some level of intelligence to really see the world for what it is. It is amazing that it's here, and that life formed. But it's also completely random and without meaning. If I'm going to wind up dead anyway, why not avoid some of the annoying drama and just get it over with?

Edited by Lori123, 07 October 2010 - 10:02 PM.


#77 lindahurt

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:05 AM

I know people suffering with depression from all walks of life, so I personally don't think intelligence has anything to do with. There are so many facets of life that can contribute to someone being depressed. It could be a chemical imbalance, dealth of a love one, lost of a job, or anything. I do feel that people with better paying jobs and financial resources are able to get the support they need.
Even in the most horrific of situations, one's attitude has an enormous role in shaping what happens ~ Viktor Frankl
In you lies the power to choose, to commit - Stephen Convey

 
The kind of person you want to become is greatly influence by your inner decisions, and not from outside influence alone. We can even under adverse circumstances, decide what shall become of us ~ Brian C. Stiller



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#78 Acrowley

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 06:22 PM

I know that I technically am (diagnosed as "gifted" as a child). I am very booksmart, very good at maths. I always score highly in iq tests and such. I am very philosophical and thoughtful. But. I am very socially stupid, and am not street-smart in any way. I trust people way too easily, making me gullible. So, it depends on the kind of intelligence you're talking about, on the individual, and how they deal with their lives.

#79 Acrowley

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 01:02 PM

There are two types of data that can be applied to this question.

What we see here in this thread is "anecdotal" data, in which a very few people share their ideas about this.

But the only way a real answer to this question can be found is to look at the scientific data- like some sort of comparative-experimental data. I have looked for this on Google, and not found any either way. So I cannot know for sure.

In the absence of this data, I am forced to assume that depression is an equal-opportunity illness.

But the data also gets confounded by the interaction between the "stressor" and the individual. It's the individual's response to the stress, which is partly genetic and partly learned, which really determines who gets depressed, except for completely involutional depression- and I've only maybe met one of those in my 54 years of life.

Statistics. Show me the statistics, or ignore me.... :)

I agree, we do need evidence, but evidence is not everything. First you need a theory, which is what is being discussed here. I personally belive that we're not necessarily smarter, but that we spend more time in thought, wondering about these things. I think we are generally much...deeper than a "normal" person. I am very idealistic, and feel depressed knowing that people in the world are not caring, not helping the world, while I'm here doing the absolute best possible for me, while feeling like s***. I understand people very well, I can usually judge people's mindset very well, and see how they really are. This depresses me, since I see so many selfish people. Having said this, I also think we generally feel "different" or out of place. For me, this is because I get lost in thought, and act in a way others think is "weird".
As for whether or not we're smarter-I don't know about in general. I am very academically talented (diagnosed as "gifted"). But I am very bad socially; I'm not street-smart, I'm innocent according to friends. So yes and no.

#80 Prudence Jane

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:53 PM

My mother has never been depressed and I consider her to be incredibly intelligent and resilient for raising 5 kids on her own, for having lost two kids in her life (one by miscarriage and the other was born-dead) and for raising her kids with a little amount of money.

But I do believe that in general, depressed people have an ability to perceive the world around them than other people do not have. They have a better understanding of the world around them. But it depends on what you mean by intelligence. There are different types of intelligence.

Edited by Prudence Jane, 29 February 2012 - 04:54 PM.

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