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Are depressed people more intelligent than other people?


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#1 dar

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 01:07 AM

Guys I have been thinking and I have been thinking that people with depression, from the people I have met, are very intelligent people but are depressed because they cannot cope with normal society because normal society doesn't have the level of intelligence depressed people have. Could this be true? Every depressed person I have met possesses a higher intelligence than the normal person in society. Could it be their mind has progressed pass the simple thoughts of a normal person therefore it is hard for them to socialize with normal society?

#2 gritty

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 02:54 AM

I have wondered about this as well. Instead of depressed people being more intelligent, maybe intelligent people are at a higher risk of depression.

#3 319_Please

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 08:42 AM

I've thought the very same thing. I've though that I must have been given another gift, something that makes up for the fact that I've been so depressed and unhappy for so long. And I am smarter than the average bear. I'm no rocket scientist, but I do feel as though I've got something, either creative talent, or powers of observation, or whatever, that sets me apart.

I think depressed people just think things through more than other people. They have more time alone with their thoughts, so their ideas are a little better rationalized, a little more fleshed out. I don't think that this is really a sign of advanced intelligence.

So, in fact, my depression has given me the gift of thinking things through more thoroughly, and in the course of pondering whether I was more intelligent than most, I've come to the determination that I'm not more intelligent, but instead just think things through more thoroughly.

I think what you are talking about is a myth that depressed people tell themselves, something to make them feel better about themselves. The moody, depressed creative artist, also a myth. Sure I'd like to believe these things, but at this point I just want to be "normal". I'd like to have those problems for a while, instead of a brain that plays tricks on me.
And you know you're never sure, but your sure you could be right . . . -- Smashing Pumpkins

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#4 harlequin

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 08:50 AM

I would say that this is not so, unless "more intelligent" people are more inclined to "think themselves into *****" by developing more complex "negative perceptions" and therefore inclined to "stress themselves" more.

Having worked in mental hospitals, I've seen people from all walks of life and all levels of intelligence.

I would guess that people that are socioculturally disadvantaged are less inclined to recognize that they are depressed, less inclined to allow themselves to be "labeled" as depressed, and less inclined to access mental health services.

So I think that socioculturally disadvantaged people who are depressed are there, but just not visible for these reasons. There would be no reason for the incidence of depression to be any lower in that population. It's an equal-opportunity problem.
"Weasels ripped my flesh"- Frank Zappa

#5 Sheepwoman

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 09:27 AM

This is a yea-nay observation regarding who is more intelligent. I belive that people with depression can be more intelligent than others because we tend to analyze more of our thoughts-even though sometimes our thoughts are irrational. There are exceptional intelligent and creative people who have suffered from mild to severe depression, such as Einstein and Vincent van Gough. However, there are also non-depressed people who are just as intelligent and have great artistic talents. The down side for most of us is that we have great difficulty in expressing our intelligence because depression stifles and takes away the energy to do so.

Just my two points of view. I feel that I'm intelligent. Of late, that intelligence does not always shines through. Like most of us, I have my ups and downs, too.
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#6 chaku

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 09:33 AM

I honestly wouldn't even go there, man. Intelligence comes in so many different forms and on so many different levels, that it is just too much of a generalization to be right.

Just off of the top of my head I can think of:

Booksmarts....
Probably the "classical" definition of intelligence, someone who learns well from reading and does well with their grades in school. Does depression make someone booksmart? I really doubt it. Usually these people are high acheivers and do well in society, something depression usually doesn't help very much with.

Mathematicians....
Some people are literally geniuses with numbers. They can solve equations on the fly and can solve things much, much quicker than your average person. These people are the most amazing to me and we still haven't been able to figure out scientifically for sure what makes them so much more effective at this skill, but if any of these forms are something you are born with, I think it is this one. I have never heard of someone "becoming" a math genius at a later date, so I doubt that depression will make this happen either.

Philosophers....
I think this one is probably connected to depression. In simple terms what a philosopher does is "think about things," and when we are depressed and isolated we have a lot of time to do that. I should know, I have been isolated for the the past 7 years. Of course this doesn't mean depression causes philosophy, it just may be a product of the side-effects of depression.

Verbal/communicators....
Some people are very good communicaters and are good with words to the point of acheiving success. This can be in a workplace, politics, relationships, words go a long way. Depression if anything tends to isolate us as you said and usually depressed people don't make the best communicaters because we are too "in our heads" about things.

Artists....
I don't know about this one. I am a struggling artist right now and my depression has not made me good at it so far. I have had to work very hard to even get as far as I have. I honestly think the biggest factors of artistic intelligence come from two places, exposure to it when we are young and our brains are developing and drive/passion. If depression has done anything to help me with my art it has given me time to find my passions and hone my skills.

Competitive....
Some people have a very competitive mindset and are very effective when in a competitive environment. From what I have seen, depression hurts this kind of intelligence because winning usually takes a positive mindset and high self-esteem. Depressed people are usually more "down" about their skills, worth, effectiveness, and such. If you don't think that you are going to "win," you probably won't even try right? And if you do, the chances of it being a half-hearted attempt because "you couldn't do it good enough anyway" are pretty likely.

Money....
There are people out that can get and save money much more effectively than a lot of other people. Some people seem to just make all of the right business decisions and wind up pretty rich. I know there is a lot of luck involved here, but I think there is also a certain cunning that some people have for money that helps them get rich while the rest of us kind of sit around waiting for something to happen or get tricked into working a dead-end job. This seems to tie into the competitive mindset as well. In order to be good with money you have to pursue it, making the right decisions when to spend and when to save. Since my whole family is depressed and we all have pretty serious troubles with money, my experiences are that depression is not good for money smarts.

Do you see what I am saying? Intelligence in itself is so complicated that trying to generalize depression into this whole range of the human mind is not going to get the correct answer.

Edited by chaku, 01 May 2006 - 10:11 AM.


#7 harlequin

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 10:13 AM

I did a Google search using the terms "intelligence correlation depression", and actually didn't find much at all. What I did find, here:

http://mangans.blogs...depression.html

was an article that suggests that more intelligent people are better able to cope with complex stress, and therefore less inclined to get depressed.

Could it be that some depressed people that happen to be intelligent "tell themselves" that it's because they're intelligent in order to make themselves feel better, even though there's no real evidence to support that?
"Weasels ripped my flesh"- Frank Zappa

#8 misfit

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 10:25 AM

I think that depressed people tend to be more right-Brain intelligent...or, right brain intelligence gives one a better chance at being depressed. The more creative one is, ususally the more emotional they are. WHen you look at the vast list of creative people with depression, it's almost endless...so many have it.

I often don't feel I fit in in this world, I go out and there aren't too many people I can connect with in suburbia, I am driven nuts by the statis quo...so many things bother me, because I think about them too much. I remember watching an episode of the Simpsons where Homer found out he had a crayon stuck up his nose and was pushing into his brain for years which caused him to be stupid...when he had the crayon removed he was really smart. They showed him in a movie theatre watching a spoof of "The Runaway Bride". Everyone was laughing and Homer couldn't get why...he kept saying "this is so predictable" "this is so stupid" and everyone in the theatre was getting mad at him. That's how I feel a lot of the time about so many things. I can't enjoy a lot of things because I see through them. So often I wish I could just live, live everyday just to live instead of seeing into the deeper meaning all the time. Now, it dosen't mean that I don't enjoy silly comedies etc...but there are many, many (ooooh so many) things that I find stupid and can't understand why people give into them, why others can't see what I see. But, maybe if I was happy I wouldn't notice those things so much? Or is it those things which cause me to be depressed? I am not sure.

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We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves-Buddha

#9 harlequin

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 10:35 AM

I would say two things-

First, show me the statistics.

Second, you could just as easily turn your intelligence and insight into coping skills for the parts of lfe that you are dissatisfied with.
"Weasels ripped my flesh"- Frank Zappa

#10 MLO

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 10:43 AM

I've wondered if people who are depressed are more creative, but I don't think I've considered the 'more intelligent' theory.

I've also wondered if people who are depressed...and not with situational depression but a depression with a neurochemical component... have access to a part of the brain that others don't. Sort of like an undiscovered sixth sense ability. I briefly toyed with the idea when I realized how closely my moods are tied in with weather and other unknown factors (time of day? depressed people around me?)

Kay Jamieson (sp?) wrote a book on the link between bipolar illness and creativity called Touched by Fire. The original poster may want to check this out.
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#11 quietCherub

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 10:49 AM

Hmmmm...there have been many good points made here! It is tough to make a statement like that, because it includes too many broad categories. There are all different types of depression, and all different types of intelligence, like others have mentioned.

I don't know if this applies directly, but I've always felt that a person cannot experience true happiness without experiencing true sadness. Of course happiness and sadness are quite arbitrary terms...lets say lower end emotions and higher end emotions. Think of them as two ends on a continuum. I believe that the farther one can experience on one end, the farther they can experience on the other. Sooo...under this theory, "normal" people's range would be much smaller than that of a depressed person. That is why they don't think so much, and why they can get upset and be fine minutes later, or excited and then devastated in the same minute. Does that make sense? Because what they are feeling is not so far from the neutral middle point, it does not take as much work to get bacck there. Nor does it take that much time to get there. So it may seem as though they are able to handle themselves better, but it is because they are not truly experiencing as much as a human can. For example, how can a "normal" person really appreciate how good it feels to have someone they love in their arms, when they have never felt the sadness that comes from losing someone they love? I don't know if that makes sense. I know "normal" people do get upset, do fall in love, etc. but I feel like it is not as genuine or as real as one of us would feel.

Now you're probably saying 'well if this is true, then howcome I haven't felt extreme happiness yet?' but like I said, happiness and sadness are just arbitrary terms. Happiness could be replaced by appreciation, contentment, understanding, being able to relate to another person or people....does that make sense?

This is just a working theory that I've thought of before. I kind of just elaborated on it for the first time now, so I'm sure there's flaws...critiques welcome! I can see where there are some holes...but I'm no scientist, so cut me some slack. Hehe :)
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#12 chaku

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 10:59 AM

Harlequin, I don't know this for sure, but I think that maybe instead of being smarter, or even telling themselves that intelligence is the reason for their depression, it could also be a matter of honesty, too.

There are many ways to look at what the "most intelligent" response to any situation would be. Misfit's situation is one I think all of us depressed people have been in, we see so much negative garbage and it gets on our nerves. As an example, me being a musician for the latter portion of my childhood I got to watch everyone else listen to Britney Spears, the Backstreet Boys, Limp Bizkit, and other things that came across to me as being some of the most shallow, ******** crap that it would amaze me that someone could actually go to the store and buy it. I am not proud of how judgemental I was, but I would wind up thinking things like "what is wrong with these people?" or "Are they stupid?" I still slip into that now and then, watching some of the new music that comes out, it just makes me so mad.

But some would argue that the more intelligent way to act in that situation would be to just like it too, sure it may be dishonest, but it will let you be part of the crowd. It is much easier to make friends when you just do what they do. That kind of resistance creates problems in any social circle, and can extend to literally any part of your life, jobs, relationships, basically everything.

So perhaps by being more honest about things depressed people create a lot more problems, and that could be argued to be less intelligent.

I love my honesty though, :hearts: smart or not smart I will stick with it.

#13 Guest_art.chick_*

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 11:35 AM

I honestly wouldn't even go there, man. Intelligence comes in so many different forms and on so many different levels, that it is just too much of a generalization to be right.


I am leaning with Chaku on this one. Animals become depressed when they are kept from their natural inclinations and made to feel helpless. I think that is one of the factors that keeps many of us depressed, and if being intelligent makes others more inclined to exert control over us, the stressors would be higher for intelligent people, leading toward more depression.

When I look over the many many threads over the years here at DF, I see some who are clinically, long-term depressed for no other reason that brain chemistry. But I have seen a lot more people come here who have stressors from untenable living situations. They are depressed because they have no resources to change things that are really bad in their lives. There are a few who have plenty of money but just do not see how they could live with all the upheaval of making changes, but it is much more common that money is the big factor. Who would NOT be depressed if they lived with an addict in an unstable environment with lots of abuse, but they had no place else to go? Perhaps if they were less "intelligent," their abusers would not have to work so hard to keep them down, but a beaten down being of any intelligence level would still be deeply depressed from the helpless feeling that comes with inability to persue happiness, a supposed constitutional right.

#14 dohta

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 02:16 PM

maybe not intelligent, but definitely more thoughtful imo
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#15 cinnamona666

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 02:17 PM

this is a topic ive thought a lot about over the years..especially as an adolescent when I had not met anyone i could remotely even relate with. as others have stated, there are many different types of intelligence. Depressed individuals seem to be more sensitive and more aware of surroundings than others..and unfortunately to our detriment. Many of us naturally place ourselves in the shoes and perspectives of others..and have this innate ability to feel pain (lovely eh?)

very unscientific, but every genius i have ever met was 'off'. 'off' socially and/or emotionally. I remember one in particular..he couldnt even enjoy class..because he saw through the errs of the text. He had trouble coping in a life where so many things bothered him that didnt bother others (yay for self destruction >_<)

wow im rambling.. in the end.. brains of people who are depressed, who are extraordinary geniuses, or autistic..etc.. just work differently and science has yet to figure out all the consequences/ (ugh cant think of word...drives self crazy..stupid memory loss...****..i miss my brain) im gonna just take a break..i cant go on with this reply until i figure out this word) MANIFESTATIONS of these differences.. that took me nearly 10 minutes >_<
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#16 Moonlight_Magic

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 03:12 PM

I honestly have no idea, i doubt it. People generally tell me i'm stupid. On the other hand my average academic grade is an A. Universities love me, the general public tends to hate me.

Im book smart im not street smart. I see things differently to a lot of people. I dont fit in, and i suffer from social phobia as a result. Because of my social phobia and the fact that i sometimes feel isolated (lonely), that can sometimes play a role in my depression. No social network to fall back on when i need help on you see, generally i have to cope on my own becuase i dont always have anyone to turn to for support. Im a single parent and i cant work at this time, so im stuck at home all day aswell. That doesnt help.

Mind you im just weird full stop, regardless of how well i do at academics. These days, i tend to veer more towards creative pursuits than i do academics although i still have an interest in a variety of subjects. I find that creative pursuits give me more of an outlet for self expression than do academics. That helps me channel my emotions into something positive.

EQ may play a stronger role than IQ, although according to most tests my EQ is above average as is my IQ. (i do these tests for fun because i enjoy doing them). Then again, more often than not in most tests ive taken the right answers have been pretty easy to guess using basic common sense.

But just because i know what i should be doing, it doesnt always mean im going to do it! Its like hoovering, i know i have to get up and do it at somepoint, but on the other hand i might decide to procrastinate for hours on end instead.

Actually if anything id say my depression (other than being a chemical imbalance) is more closely linked to my idealistic nature. Im an idealist, a perfectionist and when i look outside i see s***.

Im also highly sensitive, oversensitive at times infact.

The realist in me knows that the real world is nothing like my ideals, but all the same, its still disappointing when you realise that, at times, reality really does bite. I used to say "depressives are not depressed because they are depressives, depressives are depressed because they see the world for what it is". Obviously i cant speak for all those with a mood disorder, but when i came up with that quote i was refering to myself.

These days i try and keep my strange illogical quotes more optimistic in nature (like the one on my sigline).

Add to that im a romantic thats not had much luck in love and voila, one depressed and incredibly lonesome soul crying out for something to fill the huge void it feels is consuming it, with something meaningful, if only it knew what that was.

Passion, it has something to do with passion (not nessacerily of a sexual nature), i need to find something i have passion for.

Creative pursuits i find come closer to filling that gap than academics did, as much as i love them; And chocolate icecream doesnt fill the gap at all (so ive discovered). Well ok it does for an hour and half or so, but my waist line is starting to complain a bit now, or rather my jeans are!

On the other hand it could be i dont fit in cause i insist on telling bog awful jokes. If i didnt find myself funny id stop.

So to sum up im a perfectionistic, oversensitive idealistic romantic thats prone to depression and social phobia with an above average IQ and EQ (according to the tests ive taken) so its no wonder im just plain weird then. Me thinks i should have been a poet or some such. Actually i had some poetry published once, actually three times, but i stopped writing years ago. Got a block, still got the block, had the block for years. It was awful poetry anyway.

Anyway, enough whinning, but depression may be linked to specific personality traits. Ive not looked into it.

On the other hand both my parents suffered with depression and anxiety, so maybe i just got a faulty gene or something.

Edited by Angelofshadows, 01 May 2006 - 04:00 PM.

"Oneday your prince will find you, mine just got lost on the way and was too stubborn to ask for directions!" (annoymous)

All quotes below by me and whomever happened to come up with them before i did (lol):

"Beneath the pessimism that is depression im an eternal optimist, so please don't be fooled by my seeming negativity!" *ahem*

"Finding acceptance from the world around us, begins with finding acceptance of the self".

"You dont have to achieve great things to be a great person!"

"On the road of life im a sunday driver. Im taking the scenic route at a speed im comfortable with. So if you want to overtake me, please feel free, but dont keep beeping your horn at me, its irritating. Thankyou"

#17 harlequin

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 03:44 PM

There are two types of data that can be applied to this question.

What we see here in this thread is "anecdotal" data, in which a very few people share their ideas about this.

But the only way a real answer to this question can be found is to look at the scientific data- like some sort of comparative-experimental data. I have looked for this on Google, and not found any either way. So I cannot know for sure.

In the absence of this data, I am forced to assume that depression is an equal-opportunity illness.

But the data also gets confounded by the interaction between the "stressor" and the individual. It's the individual's response to the stress, which is partly genetic and partly learned, which really determines who gets depressed, except for completely involutional depression- and I've only maybe met one of those in my 54 years of life.

Statistics. Show me the statistics, or ignore me.... :)
"Weasels ripped my flesh"- Frank Zappa

#18 Neatoboy

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 04:19 PM

I know people who suffer from depression... some I would class as intelligent, others I wouldn't!

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#19 chaku

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 05:06 PM

Harlequin, you are never going to find accurate statistics on something like this. Whether or not someone seems smart or like a complete imbecile is usually more of a feeling you get based on your interpretation of their beliefs and the way they act. Sure there are things like IQ tests and such, but those are not accurate either. If you were to go to lets say Africa, and give one of our IQ tests to one of the primitive tribes there, I very much doubt that it would accurately reflect their intelligence. I am pretty sure those tests are fallible and not perfect just like the opinions here.

The people here are talking from their experiences because that is all they have to go on. Our opinions are just that, educated guesses. We all have our experiences that basically wind up being our own limited studies much like a scientific study would be. You really can't quantify intelligence factually, it always winds up being an opinion.

Edited by chaku, 01 May 2006 - 08:11 PM.


#20 wolfram

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 08:17 PM

Well, statistic would show women are at a greater risk than men for depression. However this is currently being debunked because the way men show/are tought to show certain feelings are different than women. And the warning flags are different for the sexes. The same could hold true for different types of people. There could be whole groups being missed who have depression, but their warnings signs are deemed "normal" I am one of those types. My behavior was deemd normal because of my profession/interrests. BUt when that wa taken away huge warning flags emerged. I doubt we will ever have a good break down by intelect/personality types if it is taken this long to figure out there are differences between the sexes. It would be very usefull because people of a certain type can be on the look out for warning signs.

#21 membrain

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 09:30 PM

It's true that people with depression are often intelligent, but I think it's just that we're more in-tune with our environment and we think about things a lot. :bump:

Membrain :hearts:

Edited by membrain, 01 May 2006 - 09:30 PM.

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Hold on
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Breakdown
I don't know why"
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I think I'm in love. :)

#22 jeffster84

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 05:08 PM

Depression and 'creative' intelligence are inextricably linked. Google 'musicians and depression' or 'writers with depression' or 'poets and depression' etc. There has not been one great artist who didn't suffer from depression.
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#23 Hannah

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 05:26 PM

Guys I have been thinking and I have been thinking that people with depression, from the people I have met, are very intelligent people but are depressed because they cannot cope with normal society because normal society doesn't have the level of intelligence depressed people have. Could this be true? Every depressed person I have met possesses a higher intelligence than the normal person in society. Could it be their mind has progressed pass the simple thoughts of a normal person therefore it is hard for them to socialize with normal society?

Hey, thanks for making me smile for the first time today. :hearts: And I definitely do think that you might be on to something here. Hmm... :bump:


"Depression is a disorder of mood, so mysteriously painful and elusive in the way it becomes known to the self-to the mediating intellect-as to verge close to being beyond description. It thus remains nearly incomprehensible to those who have not experienced it in its extreme mode."
~William Styron, "Darkness Visible"


#24 misfit

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 09:05 PM

You're probably not going to find stats on this sort of thing on google, they will be in scientific journals if they exist. Do they? I dunno, never looked them up when I was uni, had other things to do. It is as black and white as stats and as cut and dry as smart/stupid, depressed/happy...there are so many forms of intelligence and so many forms of depression.

I think that people who are creative tend to have a higher chance of becoming depressed. It's again the right brain intelligence. It's just what I have observed and read about..and many sociologists and psychologists believe that observational data is just as convincing as "true scientific data". Science doesn't always have the answers either.

I had a lactose intolerance test a few years back...I had eaten nothing that day, went in, drank a bunch of lactose then got violently ill and had to go to the hospital. I went to my doctor a week later and said "guess I am lactose intolerant eh?" she said..."well no, we don't really know you never finished the test"-o....k....just had the most violent reaction the lab had ever seen, my doc saw my in emergency, but because science didn't show it she didn't believe it. It was pretty clear...and still is everytime I have something with lactose in it, that I am lactose intolerant.

I can understand why you want real stats to prove things-and I think that is good-however I don't think we should dismiss observation either. There are many explanations to many questions...Maybe it is that depession is experianced differently for those who are intelligent and those who are not...but then I guess depression is different for each individual, so who knows. Maybe someone does need to do a real study on it...there probably is somewhere, but you would need to get a hold of academic journals.

This link shows some famous people (many highly intelligent) who have suffered from depression...This is where I see the link with artistic intelligence and depression.

http://mixednuts.net...on-famous2.html
We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves-Buddha

#25 tlmorowsky

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 11:01 PM

I think depressed people think on a different level than others. I think since they are more in tuned with their feelings.. whether they verbalize it or not, they outwardly express it in creativity. I think their thoughts are on deeper matters. The undepressed seem more nieve in some areas. I think as someone said, they/we ponder about things.. things the average person would not think twice about. I wonder if, like a blind person whose other sences are stronger, depressed people, or people with syndromes, are stronger in other areas. Does that make sence? I think it's likely, atleast possible. I think I would just rather be the average nieve person than the worrisome depressed chic I am though. I'd give up my poetry, writing, and any other artistic ability I possess for a simplistic happy life.

#26 jeffster84

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:39 AM

youve got to be kidding me...def no correlation, if anything its an inverse relationship

now if you want to examine something linked to depression, look at wealth..it seems that far and away depressed people are either poor or barely surviving...i make no claim to be intelligent, but its always interesting to see people call themselves intelligent and at the same time are living on welfare or having to eat ramen noodles and take the bus. there are literally endless ways to make a decent (if not great) living, using any number of skillsets or intelligence types (IQ, EQ, artistic, etc), so when push comes to shove, why is it that most depressed people cant cut it?


What an absolutely ridiculous post. Where are you getting this information from? Seems like it's just a rant against people who 'take the bus'. You, sir, have no idea what you are talking about.

Go and get an education!!
If a pencil rolls, is it still stationary?

#27 tlmorowsky

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 06:18 AM

I agree. I know lots of people who are suffering from depression who have plenty of money and not a single financial problem in the world.... including myself. Furthermore, I think the depression you speak of is not the typical depression we are speaking of. Circumstantial depression due to lack of funds or education is a totally different thing buddy. I, personally, was speaking of those of us who suffer depression no matter what our circumstance. I am really sorry if you are having financial problems and can't cut it, but speak for yourself, and consider getting a financial advisor. Furthermore, to know what we are talking about, you should atleast get educated on depression. In the future, please have enough consideration to think about what you are saying. You rudely insulted everyone who actually suffers from depression.

#28 Moonlight_Magic

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 08:34 AM

youve got to be kidding me...def no correlation, if anything its an inverse relationship

now if you want to examine something linked to depression, look at wealth..it seems that far and away depressed people are either poor or barely surviving...i make no claim to be intelligent, but its always interesting to see people call themselves intelligent and at the same time are living on welfare or having to eat ramen noodles and take the bus. there are literally endless ways to make a decent (if not great) living, using any number of skillsets or intelligence types (IQ, EQ, artistic, etc), so when push comes to shove, why is it that most depressed people cant cut it?


Money is not everyones only ambition in life. I dropped out of a university course where my average grade was an A/A- so that i could spend more time with my son, and becuase i was having physical health problems at the time. Why? Becuase i put my sons upbringing higher on my list of priorities than getting a degree and having a flash job i can boost about to all my friends in an attempt to make myself look more important. I would prefer that my child is emotionally healthy and has a mother who has time to be there for him. I can always resume my studies at a later date. I cant go back in time and raise my child all over again!

Im a single parent, but that was becuase of a relationship breakdown with his father, i had my son when i was living with his dad at the age of 22. I am 30 now. I went to university in my twenties because i didnt come from a privaliged background and couldnt afford to do it beforehand.

I also spent a vast majority of my 20's and later teens looking after an elderly disabled mentally ill mother so a lot of my time was taken up with that. She passed away in march 2005 at the age of 73 from puenmonia.

However talented a person maybe there are sometimes other things that are more important than making your mark on the world in the form of a career and a flush bank account.

I put human feelings first, money comes somewhere down the bottom of my list.

Edited by Angelofshadows, 03 May 2006 - 10:24 AM.

"Oneday your prince will find you, mine just got lost on the way and was too stubborn to ask for directions!" (annoymous)

All quotes below by me and whomever happened to come up with them before i did (lol):

"Beneath the pessimism that is depression im an eternal optimist, so please don't be fooled by my seeming negativity!" *ahem*

"Finding acceptance from the world around us, begins with finding acceptance of the self".

"You dont have to achieve great things to be a great person!"

"On the road of life im a sunday driver. Im taking the scenic route at a speed im comfortable with. So if you want to overtake me, please feel free, but dont keep beeping your horn at me, its irritating. Thankyou"

#29 dawgdean

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 10:25 AM

I was thinking of a line in a song, if your not ##at the world, your just not paying attention.

Hmmph, this is a curious idea. Myself, I found intelligence detracts from getting better, from making changes. My mental activity is a form of resistance.

It has been my experience intelligent people have a harder time when they/we try to change. Thinking about stuff, cause and affect, logic, knowledge, are not necessarily helpful in dealing with feelings. There is a tremendous difference between a thought and a feeling. Trying to understand feelings by using my mind, is like trying to fix a car with a rubber band.

I hope this post takes a different turn. I believe what is important is to listen. I would venture to suggest depression and feelings of worthiness are related ideas. Consequently, I don't think it is a good idea to judge on this forum. Rather, take what you like and leave ther rest. If you are right, then somebody else must be wrong. I encourage everyone to please keep judgments to a minimum, or to yourself.

We are all responsible for keeping this a safe place. It is important that everyone feels safe to express themselves here.

#30 chaku

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 10:39 AM

Jm187, I am not sure if you are trolling with that response, but if you really don't understand this, I think I can explain.

Money is not intelligence. Money may be a small part of intelligence but is not intelligence in itself. If someone wins the lottery does that make them more intelligent? If someone is good at football and makes his living as a lineman does that make him intelligent? What about someone who inherents a lot of money from their parents? If someone is competitive and gets a good job does that make them intelligent? Do any of these mean anything relatively to brain capacity? Maybe, but usually no.

On the other hand: If someone were to write a book that no one bought, does that mean they are not intelligent? A song? Any art period? If someone "is" unemployed does that mean they are not smart? If someone is a genius at math with terrible social skills, does that make them stupid? How about someone starting a business that fails, does that make them stupid too? If Einstein was afraid to leave his home but still made his theories, would that mean he was a stupid man?

I see things that are much more relevant to getting rich as: greed, self-esteem/ego, competitiveness, a willingness to take advantage of others to get what you want, looks, a good financial starting point, and luck.

Dawgdean, that is a very good point, we should definately try and keep things civil here. I will leave my opinion here, but we may all have to just agree to disagree on this one.

Edited by chaku, 03 May 2006 - 10:44 AM.


#31 KeepingAwake

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 10:55 AM

youve got to be kidding me...def no correlation, if anything its an inverse relationship

now if you want to examine something linked to depression, look at wealth..it seems that far and away depressed people are either poor or barely surviving...i make no claim to be intelligent, but its always interesting to see people call themselves intelligent and at the same time are living on welfare or having to eat ramen noodles and take the bus. there are literally endless ways to make a decent (if not great) living, using any number of skillsets or intelligence types (IQ, EQ, artistic, etc), so when push comes to shove, why is it that most depressed people cant cut it?


jm187,

You may not realize how insensitive this post sounds, but it is very insulting to poeple with depression and people struggling with poverty.

Poverty is a very complex problem, caused by any number of circumstances. So is depression for that matter. Niether poverty nor depression can be 'willed' away.

Please think about whether you might be offending someone before you post. I think you could have made your thoughts known without being insulting.

KA
Beliefs Aren't Etched in Stone... Unless Your Brain is Made of Rock

#32 Special K

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 02:27 PM

Hey All~

Interesting perspectives on this topic. I've seen genius type people suffer with depression and social anxiety. I'm not talking about 2 or 3 I'm talking like 15 people I know. They are book smart, street smart, and all those other smarts. I'm not a genius type, but I am an above average person. I do believe that my observations and listening skills have improved thanks to depression; I was always a good listener before my depression "kicked in", but now I "hear" people better. I feel more compassionate towards them. I am also very in-tone with myself. Depression makes me think a lot about myself what I want, don't want, who I am and who I am not. This is definitely helping me cope with my depression. There could be a correlation with depression and higher intelligence. I am biology freak so I wonder if the brain kind of re-wire its self over time. Its interesting nevertheless. Take Care :hearts:

Edited by Special K, 03 May 2006 - 02:28 PM.

Worrying is like a rocking chair, it gets you nowhere. ~Unknown

Depression is like ice cream in the summer, it gets all over the place. ~ A friend

#33 Timeiswhat

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 02:42 PM

In general? Maybe. I've thought about this a lot too. I guess it could go either way. I mean,
a) depressed people have reason to think more about society/the world/whatever troubles them, whereas people who don't have depression never need to find a reason to be happy or to trust in anything. They just are happy, and they just do trust that what they see, is.
b) People who are more intelligent tend to see the problems with the world/society/whatever troubles them, and they also tend to dwell on it, and that makes them depressed.

Maybe it's a mixture of the two? Of course, I also know a lot of intelligent people who have no signs of depression, and depressed people with... no signs of intelligence? ha ha...

I would choose 'a' if I had to, although I do agree that it's too complicated to find a definite answer. Maybe depressed people are just more expressive about their thoughts? Many artists/musicians/actors etc. are depressed, or manic depressive. I do think depressed people tend to be more artistic, out of necessity. Of course my dad has chronic depression and hardly uses *any* of his right brain.

In my opinion, humans know very little about their own minds. So who knows?

#34 Timeiswhat

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 03:06 PM

youve got to be kidding me...def no correlation, if anything its an inverse relationship

now if you want to examine something linked to depression, look at wealth..it seems that far and away depressed people are either poor or barely surviving...i make no claim to be intelligent, but its always interesting to see people call themselves intelligent and at the same time are living on welfare or having to eat ramen noodles and take the bus. there are literally endless ways to make a decent (if not great) living, using any number of skillsets or intelligence types (IQ, EQ, artistic, etc), so when push comes to shove, why is it that most depressed people cant cut it?


This *is* really insulting. How many depressed people do you know? Whether or not someone "can't cut it" has to do with their will do make something of themselves, and their ability to function, not always just their depression or intelligence. And have you noticed that there are many, many rich people who are obviously not intelligent? Maybe it would make more sense to say, rich people are more often left-brained. They are more logical and cool-headed. Ergo, they are willing to do things that a more sensitive or artistic person would not want to do or be willing to do to get rich.

I don't mean to say that all rich people are unartistic jerks, but I think it's a better corrolation. Look at the music industry... There are so many rich untalented people there, because they were less concerned with art and integrity, and more with having fun and making money. That doesn't make them any smarter. Look at Conor Oberst of Bright Eyes. He's a poetic genius, and he has depression. He also refused to sign to any major labels. Then we have all these pop artists who don't write their own music, or can't sing, or sing, but over a back-up track. Or just lip-sync. I resent the implication that depressed people are unintelligent just because they aren't all wealthy. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't measure intelligence by your bank account. I think that's a little shallow, and that that comment was a little thoughtless.

I'm sure most of us here are depressed or have a family member, friend or lover who is depressed. I think it's insulting to come into a forum dedicated to people with depression and then call them stupid, or say that they all live in sheds and "can't cut it". So what if someone doesn't want to just work a job that makes them a whole lot of money? Maybe more depressed people just want to do what makes them happy, not what makes them money. How could you call them stupid for that? Everyone needs to be happy. And sometimes, it's hard to even get out of bed in the morning. Depressed people, more than anyone, need to do something with themselves that prove their self-worth. Money doesn't make a person happy, or good. It has no bearings on a person's intelligence. I mean, congratulations to all those people who worked hard and made themselves wealthy. I'm not trying to negate the fact that many people with money *do* work for it. But some of them don't. And some of them are still stupid.

I know a lot of people who are intelligent, but still find it hard to make everything work with their lives. Society is not very accepting of mental illness.

Anyway, this whole thing reminded me of a Bright Eyes song called 'Laura Laurent' where Conor Oberst talks
about a girl with depression, and says, "You should never be embarrassed by your trouble with living. 'Cause it's the ones with the sorest throats, Laura, who have done the most singing."

Being sad makes everything much harder. And sometimes, the solution is not obvious. Don't assume that because someone can't get up and be cheery every day that theyare stupid. A think a lot of them know a lot more than "normal" people about life. If you're not participating, you're at least usually observing. And that can teach you a lot more, I think.

#35 Hannah

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 04:18 PM

youve got to be kidding me...def no correlation, if anything its an inverse relationship

now if you want to examine something linked to depression, look at wealth..it seems that far and away depressed people are either poor or barely surviving...i make no claim to be intelligent, but its always interesting to see people call themselves intelligent and at the same time are living on welfare or having to eat ramen noodles and take the bus. there are literally endless ways to make a decent (if not great) living, using any number of skillsets or intelligence types (IQ, EQ, artistic, etc), so when push comes to shove, why is it that most depressed people cant cut it?

Was this reply really necessary? Please just go troll somewhere else, where your bulls*** is actually tolerated. Because I can promise you that it will not be tolerated here.


"Depression is a disorder of mood, so mysteriously painful and elusive in the way it becomes known to the self-to the mediating intellect-as to verge close to being beyond description. It thus remains nearly incomprehensible to those who have not experienced it in its extreme mode."
~William Styron, "Darkness Visible"


#36 KeepingAwake

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:51 PM

lol, I thought we were trying to have a civilized discussion

resorting to name calling, def a sign of intelligence, guess the truth hurts..



Re : jm187-

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!

Trolls are looking to stir things up. To somehow get a distraction from whatever else is bothering them. The more we respond, the better he'll feel, because he got a reaction.

My advice would be to IGNORE ( and you can set this in your control panel) jm187 so that he takes his warped need for stirring up trouble elsewhere.


Just got to MyControls, Options, Manage Ignored Users, and add his screenname. end of story.

Bye jm 187!

KA

Edited by KeepingAwake, 03 May 2006 - 05:53 PM.

Beliefs Aren't Etched in Stone... Unless Your Brain is Made of Rock

#37 Hannah

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 06:54 PM

lol, I thought we were trying to have a civilized discussion

resorting to name calling, def a sign of intelligence, guess the truth hurts..

Well, I'm certainly being more civilized than you are. At least I can tell when I'm not wanted on a message board. That skill seems to have escaped you.

And onto "ignore" you go! Bah-bye, Mister Troll! :hearts:


"Depression is a disorder of mood, so mysteriously painful and elusive in the way it becomes known to the self-to the mediating intellect-as to verge close to being beyond description. It thus remains nearly incomprehensible to those who have not experienced it in its extreme mode."
~William Styron, "Darkness Visible"


#38 ta152

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 07:12 PM

This is a good thread to read. I remember I was not depressed when I was small and did not have the social values instilled in me by church, school, and home. Then the concept of money, rich vs poor people, black, white , mexican , poor side of town vs rich , different cliques of people forming and all the hyprocriscy that goes with it. Then I started to be depressed. Seems like they say do this in Public and then do what you really want in private and reward those who can do this game well. If you decide you don't want to play the game then you get excluded from the group and labled as anti-social or a trouble maker. If you try and make sense of societys games then you loose your marbles and have problems.

Brain chemistry seems to be studied by people who do not have depression and there fore are not really intune to our illness.

#39 tlmorowsky

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 07:46 PM

i dont have a problem with people pursuing their passion, its more the people who tout their intelligence and just wait for their welfare check every month.


And what does this have to do with depression? Do you seriously think that people who are depressed set around waiting on a welfare check? I understand your point that financial difficulties can increase depression; However, depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Just because one might have little money doesn't doom them to depression or vis versa.

Let me ask you something? Did you come to this forum to insult us? I think you probably came here because you needed some help. You are going about it the wrong way. If not, I think maybe you are looking for anger management, not depression forums. Anyway, if you meant no insult to anyone, why don't you say so in a nice way.. This can all be turned around.

#40 TwilightZephyr

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 08:58 PM

I think there a lot of factors contribute when it comes to depression.

I don't think that intelligent people are necessarily depressed because they can't cope with normal society. I can say that I myself tend to feel stupid, because I dumb myself down because people usually don't understand me otherwise. Plus I usually like less intelligent people better. :P It brings me down a little but not enough to make me depressed.

I have however asked myself this question, whether intelligence plays a part in being depressed?...and almost posted it once. I think in my head why I always ask myself the question is because of the state of the world. How many wrongs there are. You also look at statistics and see that by 2020 depression will be the #1 health problem around the world (or something along those lines). Which makes me also wonder about how screwed up the world is now, and I think will continue to be. I tend to think people with higher intelligence tend to pay more attention to world affairs and information being put out there.

Also I think people who are more analytical tend to overanalyze themselves and get more into the negative thinking set of mind. You see cognitive thought therapy being used more and more which would suggest that a lot of depression is in the way one thinks...I tend to think that this therapy might work better for those with above average intelligence, because I kind of think it hits that group of people.

I think though having higher intelligence does make it easier to problem solve and get yourself out of depression, or prevent it...but as most probably have experienced tunnel vision tends to play part and a lot of things are thrown out the window including the ability to problem solve.

In the end I would say being of above average intelligence can contribute to being depressed, but is not a result of depression. And I don't think anyone one factor could be a sole cause for depression.

It would be interesting to see some statistical studies done on the correlation. I'm sure there probably have been, but as someone has said they probably would be in scientific journals which usually have restricted access. Has anyone looked through the psychology magazine archives? I would suggest a poll with IQ range/depression...but of course this forum would be biased. I might do that on one of my other forums...though it's really not to scientific.

Edited by TwilightZephyr, 03 May 2006 - 09:08 PM.





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