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Worry-free

Tardive Dyskinesia???

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Posted

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I was just reading about some of the side effects of Effexor and I came across something called "Tardive Dyskinesia" (movement disorder). Is this a very rare side effect? Should one be very concerned about the possibility of this with the use of Effexor? The article that I read said that this movement disorder is a permanent condition.

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Posted

I cannot find any evidence that Effexor causes Tardive dyskinesia in patients. Other meds, such as Seroquel, do... as I have had problems with this med... also, Abilify can, ask your doctor, please do not get freaked out without knowing the facts:

Tardive dyskinesia is a syndrome involving dysfunctional, involuntary movements associated with long-term, chronic use of neuroleptic medications, such as Haldol, Prolixin, and Thorazine. These drugs lead to an apparent general calming or sedative effect on the individual and are considered major tranquilizers.

Tardive dyskinesia may appear anywhere from three months to several years after initial use of these medications, and withdrawal from neuroleptics often exacerbates the symptoms.

Common tardive dyskinesia movements include, but are not limited to: facial tics, grimacing, eye blinking, lip smacking, tongue thrusting, moving one's head back or to the side, foot tapping, ankle movements, shuffled gait, and head nodding. Tardive dyskinesia may lead to very serious problems, such as respiratory interference, inability to eat, oral ulcerations, and difficulty standing/walking.

Tardive dyskinesia movements may be confused with stereotypy because of the repetitive nature of both behaviors. Stereotypy refers to ritualistic, often complex behaviors, such as body and head rocking, hand-flapping, and complex hand movement patterns. Stereotypy appears to be under voluntary control. In contrast, tardive dyskinesia movements are less complex, less ritualistic, and are not volitional.

Other psychoactive drugs, such as clozaril/clozapine, have similar effects on behavior but do not produce tardive dyskinesia as neuroleptics do. If neuroleptic drugs have been used, or are being used, there is substantial evidence (at least seven studies) which show that tardive dyskinesia can be avoided and/or treated, through the use of certain nutrients, especially vitamin E. One professional suggests the following to prevent or treat tardive dyskinesia:

Vitamin E, 400-800 units/day

Vitamin B6, 100-200 mg./day

Vitamin C, 1000 mg./day

Vitamin B3, 100-200 mg./day (niacinamide)

Multiple mineral tablet containing about 3-5 mg. of manganese

Due to the serious side effects of neuroleptics and given that not everyone responds positively to the drugs, it is best to address behavioral problems with behavior management strategies. The majority of behavioral problems are environmentally caused. Treatment of behavioral problems with neuroleptics may cause additional social and physiological problems; therefore, they should be carefully considered before being utilized.

again, ask your doctor BEFORE worrying about this disorder... it sometimes takes large doses of meds to bring on TD.

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Posted

I had a reply all ready to post and then I did something and lost the browser.

What I wanted to say was if you do a search on google or a similar web tool with the words "Tardive Dyskinesia Venlafaxine", you'll get hits. Some will be research papers but I think (IMO) that this doesn't necessarily mean that TD is caused by Efexor. Certainly on the drug info leaflet I have and on the Wyeth web site, TD is not mentioned as a possible side effect. Other medications such as the neuroleptics have more of an effect. But it is a very rare condition all the same.

The best person to talk to about this is your dr or perhaps a pharmacist. They would have the medical knowledge to know if TD is something we need to worry about.

Certainly acquaint yourself with the symptoms of TD so that if it should start then you will know to get yourself to the dr ASAP. Symptoms can be:

Taken from http://counsellingresource.com/medications...ut-tardive.html

Tardive dyskinesia is characterized by repetitive, involuntary, purposeless movements. Features of the disorder may include grimacing, tongue protrusion, lip smacking, puckering and pursing, and rapid eye blinking. Rapid movements of the arms, legs, and trunk may also occur. Impaired movements of the fingers may appear as though the patient is playing an invisible guitar or piano.

I know that I wasn't worried about this and I've been on efexor and anti-psychotics.

I think TD can be long-lasting if you have to remain on neuroleptics say.

Try not to worry too much about this as it does seem to be a rare condition.

Try doing a web search, but you may find that you get a lot of unreadable or highly technical information as well as some anti efexor sites etc.

If you are at all worried talk this over with your dr.

Eileen

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Posted (edited)

I was just reading about some of the side effects of Effexor and I came across something called "Tardive Dyskinesia" (movement disorder). Is this a very rare side effect? Should one be very concerned about the possibility of this with the use of Effexor? The article that I read said that this movement disorder is a permanent condition.

I suffer from Tardive Dyskinesia as a result of Efexor - So- believe me - I know it is true. I would not wish this on my worst enemy.

There is quite a lot of evidence linking SSRI/SNRI anti-depressants with TD. Yes it is rare - but it happens and it is scary because noone knows about it. It took 7 months for me to be diagnosed and taken off the medication - or almost off it. I have had MRIs, CAT Scans, Genetic Testing and hundreds of blood tests done - I have been hospitalised three times because of the severity of the condition.

Yours in movement

Michelle

Edited by Camandmich

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Posted

camandmich: Is there treatment for it? And is it permanent, or does it stop/reduce when you stop the meds? Sorry to hear about that =( Wish there was something I could do...

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Posted (edited)

Tardive dyskinisia is not always permanent. Withdrawal of the drugs can result in remission. Here is a quote from a study I found on the internet concerning reversal of symptoms.

"Over the last 12 years, we studied six patients with TD who, on prolonged follow-up, were found to have complete remission of their abnormal movements after a neuroleptic-free period of more than 2 years (2 1/2-5 years). All six patients were 61 years old or younger when their TD was diagnosed and their neuroleptics withdrawn."

There are drugs that are used to help with tardive dyskinisia if it does not spontaneously go into remission when the drug is withdrawn.

Edited by katrinasurvivor

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Posted

I am currently on Cogentin for movement disorder diffuculties. The Cogentin helps... but I've noticed that I'm going to have to have the doseage upped... The problem lies in the fact that it dries your mouth up horribly.... and i'm worried about my teeth when that happens.... However, when I back off on the Cogentin, the tics come back full force... It truly IS a difficult disorder. It's a Catch-22... you take the meds to make you better, but in doing so, something else gets worse... but in looking back... you truly didn't have much choice. :hearts: So.... whatcha gonna do? LOL.... :shocked:

Good luck!

wishing you love and laughter,

Cat :bump:

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Posted

As I recently had this discussion w/ my pdoc (who is VERY involved constantly studying all of these drugs) we went over TD together.

TD is VERY, VERY rare! For my example & the example of a friend here were the #'s we were looking at.........

Seroquel (what I'm taking) has a TD response rate of 0.10%

Risperdal (what friend takes) has a TD response rate of 0.01%

As you can see these #'s are VERY, VERY low!! Compare that to what was considered "low" when I had him do some statistical research on Lexapro causing a "low level" anxiety despite its benefits in controlling typical anxiety and depression at 13% and you can that numbers like .1% and .01% are pretty miniscule.

Now..........DESPITE those numbers, TD is still a possibility however it is no longer considered irreversible. They have learned a lot about TD in the last decade. TD is almost always reversible with the use of a drug called........."CLOZAPINE"!!!!!

If Cotegen is not working for you............(not to scare but to advise...........SOME believe that Cotegen can *increase* the risk of TD)............I'd definitely hit up your doc with an inquiry about Clozapine. My doctor was VERY adamant about the use of Clozapine and its almost perfect success rate with reversing TD!!!

Wikipedia can offer some insight into these drugs if you'd care to read.

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Posted

Hi to all,

Only my second post on this board but if I can give any info,I'm happy to.

I have a quite a few drug-induced disorders.

Data sheets are kept up to date by reports of adverse reactions. When two drugs are being used and TD is develops,both drugs are labeled as having the potential. On it's own, it's very rare to develop TD but combined with other meds, SSRI etc the risks of an adverse reaction is increased. As others have said, there are only a small number of cases reported around the world relating to venlafaxine, most not permanant.

If we all went by the rare side effects, we would never take any med.

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Posted

Please do not go near Clozapine in the hope of reversing TD. It is an anti-psychotic medication - so if you suffer from some form of psychosis - you may need it. Otherwise you are going to have a whole set of other problems.

I have found Clobazam (this is a Benzo.) to be good - but the longer you take it the less effective.

Wyeth openly admit that the risk of Extrapyramidal Symptoms with Efexor is 1 in 1000. That is not that rare.

The Cogentin can also make TD worse - so check whether you have TD or EPS - there is a slight difference - time of onset, most prominent movement etc.

50% of TD cases that last longer than 3 monthes are irreversible. Remember that TD caused byanti-deppresssants is different to traditional TD caused by anti-psychotics. If you are interested I have a couple of hundred case studies I could put your way.

Look after yourself

Michelle

My full story is below:

I was prescribed Efexor three years ago and quickly went up to 300mg

per day. It was 'great'for me for two and a half years - until I

started to withdraw.

I weaned very slowly - down to 187.5 mg over four monthes. THat took

me to Feb 2006. Suddenly one morning I woke up and felt very heavy

and by the end of the week I could not life my right leg off the bed

and could only walk with a stick. I could not sit without falling to

the right and was drooling.

By this stage I was in hospital and had had MRI's, CAT Scans, EEG's

and heaps of blood tests.

Physio helped me with my walking and I went home. Another few days

and I started shrugging uncontrollably - then had truncal spasms

every thirty seconds. Back to Hospital. More drugs and doctors

telling me it was "Stress" - what bulls***. I was put on Valium and

Clonazapan to stop movements. Movement Disorders Specialist told me

it was Psychological.

Went home and my movements increased rapidly to full on chorea -

athetosis and hemiballism. Basically, arms flying everywhere in an

uncontrolled manner. I could not stop this and had no control of my

movements. My head would twist to the right and tongue would thrust

out. I would hit my head with my hand repeatedly - I could not hold

anything in my right hand because it would end up hitting my head -

some funny moments here.LOL. Sometimes I would catch my hand

flinging and get my head out of the way - other times not. This was

every minute at least.

I lost the sensation of a full bladder and had pain in almost

everypart of my body.

By now I was seeing the Neuro Psychiatrist (he put my Efexor back up

to 300) - who couldn't identify any psychological reason for the

movements and advised me to see a Neurologist. I did and had every

test for Sydenham's Chorea, Wilson's Disease. Huntington's Disease

etc. I had - at this stage had three Psychotic Breaks - brief (less

than an hour long) bad suicide thoughts and actions that went away

as quickly as they came.

Finally after 6 monthes - a Neuro. finally started thinking

laterally and wrote me a program to get off Efexor - in six weeks.

Too quick - but I had little choice - I was desperate to try

anything. My husband and kids and I were sure that I had some Neuro-

degenerative disease and was going to die.

So by the time I got to 112mg my movements slowed markedly over

three days. They continued to improve and i was ecstatic - until I

got to 37.5 and went off that.

Well - you guessed it - the worst withdrawal ever. Brain zaps,

suicidal thoughts and actions, sweating, shaking - for 5 hellish

days. My Neuro-Psych put me bak on 37.5 and the symptoms disappeared

with in three hours. three hours. I could feel the drug coursing

through me.

I tried another two times to slowly wean from this poison - but I

could not. During this time I started seeing my original

Psychiatrist from years ago and she ahd been great - a god send. She

is treating others with movement disorders from SSRI's and supports

my desire to get off everything.

So I was on the 37.5 and going well - but the longer I was on this

dose the worse my movements got slowly..slowly ...over a few weeks

they were back. I knew I needed to get off Efexor some how and so I

took the Prozac route.I had desperately wanted to avoid this but

finally I had to use it to get off Efexor - Prozac has a longer half

life - weeks as opposed to Efexor that has days.

So I have been Efexor Free for 8 days now and have had NO withdrawal

effects. So that leaves me with 20mg Prozac - plus Clobazam for the

movements.

I hate being on this and plan to start reducing ASAP. My movements

are OK now - I will tongue flick and hand flick occcasionaly - OK

every day a few times. But mainly when excited, angry, stressed etc.

So that is my journey so far.

Luck to all out there and I would love to here from others who have

suffered this.

Michelle in Brisbane Australia.

As I recently had this discussion w/ my pdoc (who is VERY involved constantly studying all of these drugs) we went over TD together.

TD is VERY, VERY rare! For my example & the example of a friend here were the #'s we were looking at.........

Seroquel (what I'm taking) has a TD response rate of 0.10%

Risperdal (what friend takes) has a TD response rate of 0.01%

As you can see these #'s are VERY, VERY low!! Compare that to what was considered "low" when I had him do some statistical research on Lexapro causing a "low level" anxiety despite its benefits in controlling typical anxiety and depression at 13% and you can that numbers like .1% and .01% are pretty miniscule.

Now..........DESPITE those numbers, TD is still a possibility however it is no longer considered irreversible. They have learned a lot about TD in the last decade. TD is almost always reversible with the use of a drug called........."CLOZAPINE"!!!!!

If Cotegen is not working for you............(not to scare but to advise...........SOME believe that Cotegen can *increase* the risk of TD)............I'd definitely hit up your doc with an inquiry about Clozapine. My doctor was VERY adamant about the use of Clozapine and its almost perfect success rate with reversing TD!!!

Wikipedia can offer some insight into these drugs if you'd care to read.

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Posted

i wish i hadn't read this! i have just resigned myself to staying on effexor for life - now i don't know what to do!!!!!

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Well i have been researching pristiq. The reason is after my wife had been on it for about a year, she started to get these involuntary movements. when they first started we visited 3 ERs and she had been admitted to one hospital. No one knew what was going on or what to do. Finally we visited a neuo at Vandy. The doctor there had her to take some piracetam to control to movements. so far it has worked as long as she doesn't forget to take it. All doctors except one has said it was stress related, the one doctor said he had seen this before and that it was caused by the pristiq. So I have been researching this for her becuase she really liked the pristiq for her anxiety and nothing else is working. So I guess I just need more help here if anyone can provide anymore information.

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