Dear Forum Members,

A year ago I was diagnosed as bipolar II.

I am going through a lot of changes. I'm going through a divorce. I am laid off and forced to live with my parents due to being broke. I am working a part time job that is boring. I have no friends anymore and am very bored--but dont want to make friends because I am scared to.

Lately I have been having outbursts of tremendous irritability. They are like rage attacks. I am frustrated with the world and myself. I isolate from other people and beat myself up emotionally and sometimes physically in my room.

Has anyone else experienced something similar to this? I have a doctor, but I would like to hear from fellow travellers please. I'm a little scared and feeling alone.

Thank you,

Xephon

I'm sorry to hear what a horrible time you've been having. I've been having a rough year, too. Fortunately, my husband is still hanging in there waiting for me to get better and I've been able to keep my job but I've barely been functional. I've had a chronic anxiety and irritablility with depression as long as I can remember. But in November I got so much worse. I've been trying to figure out if I'm bipolar because of the irritability and agitation which only seems to get worse with the medications the psychiatrist have been giving me (SSRIs). I've only had a couple of outbursts of rage, mostly out of frustration that I'm so miserable and nothing seems to work. One day I went into my bathroom and pounded on the dresser and screamed and cried for probably an hour. I even scared myself because I felt like I was out of control.

Try not to beat yourself up (literally). Being bipolar s**** (even though My diagnosis so far is mood disorder NOS). This has been a terrifying year and I hope I find the right medications soon. Are you taking medications for your bipolar? Even though the medications I'm on haven't made me feel "normal", I'm certainly better than I was a year ago. I'm currently taking zoloft, neurontin, ativan, and about to start trileptal (which is supposed to be good for anxiety and agitation). I didn't ever think I would have to take so much medication, but if that's what I have to do to be the person I can be, I'll do it.

Hang in there. Don't give up. Work with your koctor and let him/her know what's happening. You shouldn't have to put up with being miserable.

Ali

Xephon-

In these economically trying and totally hectic times, I think we can all relate in one way or another. Trust me, you are not alone! A final Dx can be challenging to deal with at first. Add to that being laid off, moving back in with parents, broke, and being somewhat out of it socially are all understandable emotions in such circumstances.

Yep, I've experienced some, at least "similar" situations that you are facing, and I'm sure I could speak for many on DF. I know that I have read many of your posts, but my memory fails me as to what you have shared thus, I have no specific response.

I will ask, as due to your recent "irratability", has there been a med change? Has anything in your life changed dramatically...Oh, don't think for a moment I've forgotten the divorce issue....but, other than that? Stress can cause irratability and rage....as well as medications, environment, stress, anxiety and so on.

Look at your "stressors" and question yourself on WHAT you can do to relieve them, in a healthy manner, of course! My take on it is that "Stress = Validation". It's not the "stress"that's the issue. It's how we deal with it.

Wishing you in a better place,

Deepster

All the challenges you're facing would be daunting to anyone, so give yourself a break, eh?

Dear Alinam,

Thank you for your kind response.

I am sorry for your troubles with mental health issues as well. It sounds like a very difficult time. I am glad your husband is supporting you and that you and your doctor are trying to find the right medication.

Bipolar disorder is often misdiagnosed for years as depression, so dont be afraid to get second and third opinions. I wish I had all those years ago.

I am seeing my doctor in a few days so it will be good to talk with him. I'm always happy to know that there are good folks on these forums to support me as well.

-Xephon

Dear Deepster,

Thanks for your supportive reply.

I think that my schedule change at work has affected me negatively. I have to wake up at 5 AM for work and I have trouble sleeping at night. That's part of it. I also have added emotional stress because my divorce will be finished in almost a week. So the emotional stress/anxiety keeps me up at night and then I have to wake up at 5 AM.

I keep telling myself that things will get better. Keep on keeping on.

Thanks again,

-Xephon

Ouch! That's not much sleep. Maybe you should consider looking for a different job, or working with your boss toward a more reasonable schedule (I know, easier said than done). One thing I did learn while researching bipolar is that lack of sleep is a huge trigger. Which just figures since lack of sleep/insomnia is also a primary feature of bipolar.

Xephon-

I am sorry to hear that you are having a difficult time; dealing with mental illness is something that a lot of people can't understand. I have a BP friend who refers to us as 'aliens'. LOL.

I know, that before I was diagnosed as BP2, there were medications I was on that agitated me to the point of rage. I controlled my anger and had few outbursts, but in retrospective, I was very angry for a very long time. From my own experience, the SSRIs caused a lot of this, along with Buspar (good Lord, what an aweful medication for me).

I did notice that, even when I wad diagnosed and getting better, there were combinations of medications that were causing me some anger issues. For example, I was given Remeron for sleep, along with Lamictal as a mood stabilizer. This was a bad combination for me; threw me into a full blown rage; I spent an hour wailing on a heavy boxing bag and that barely calmed me down.

Sometimes it's the illness, other, times its the treatment for the illness that causes issues.

How are you doing on current meds Christian? I started the trileptal on Friday night and I feel groggy all morning and irritable all evening. I can't imagine how anyone can take this med during the day!
I've been irritable and angry for so long, I guess that was what was normal to me. Now that I want to get my life back to normal and be the Mom and wife I haven't been, I can't seem to find the answer. it's so frustrating!!

Any suggestions?

Ali

Ali

I'm doing well with the cocktail, it makes me a little foggy during the day, but it's small price to pay for feeling better. Since my shrink has taken me off of the Celexa, we having come to the understanding that I am on the very low end of the BP scale. Again, it was one of those situations where a medication wasn't working for me, for whatever reason. Honestly, most of it falls on my shoulders because I stuck with it for five months, instead of asking to make a change. But, hindsight is 20-20 and I was in a bad frame of mind.

I have never taken trileptal; no experience with it. However, I do know that for the first few hours after I take my Lamictal, I am a little irritable. But, it wears off throughout the day. My shrink and I are slowly cutting back on the medication I am on, trying to find as small a cocktail as possible.

It's all trial and error, but my shrink and I have a good relationship when it comes to everything that's going on. She gives me quite a bit of say in the treatment, but that's also because she knows that I am leery of the benzos. I have never come across as a drug seeker in that aspect, so she trusts my judgement.

Again, my main suggestion has always been to give a medication few weeks and it's not working, it's not working. It's either causing problems, or not treating the illness. Unless it's REALLY driving you up a wall, then talk to the docs about getting off of it ASAP. Seroquel drove me crazy, I made it know to the shrinks and they pulled me off of it. Buspar was kind of doing the same thing to me, but it put me in a little better place than I was with the Celexa alone. But again, I was in a terrible state at that point; I went from barely being function to slightly functional, so it was somewhat of an improvement.

I have always like the Neurontin, it's helped me a lot in the bigger doses. It does make me groggy, but I am still functional. It's better than the benzos because it's easy to get off of. And, I have had docs tell me to only take it at night, but it has such a short half life that it doesn't help me during the day. So, my shrink and I split the dose evenly throughout the day.

Hello, Xephon.

I am Bipolar type II as well. For years I have struggled with anger-management issues and irritability. Though always only with my family, which might be due to other factors than my diagnosis. The worst was the passive aggressiveness which created a lot of friction and problems with siblings and my mother. Sometimes I`d get angry and throw/push things around.

It has taken me a long time and some hard work to handle these problems. We worked with it when I was in therapy, and although I am in control of things and has learned to deal with problems regarding my family in a very different way, I still sometimes struggle when we argue. It`s become very important to me to handle arguements and disagreements in a good way. I haven`t had anger-management problems in any great degree for quite some time, but sometimes I still find myself being unreasonable passive aggressive in family situations. We`ve had a lot of problems, growing up in a dysfunctional family.

The reason why I am sharing this is to just let you know that these problems are not permanent. We can work with them, we don`t have to be our own enemy. I think the most important thing is to not blame yourself or the others around you. Self-anger only makes things worse. The more guilt, the more difficult it is to calm down and try to look at things in a different way. That was the first thing I learned.

Try to be patient with yourself, you are not a bad person just because you are struggling. It`s natural to have periods where we struggle emotionally and anger is a natural feeling which might be caused by a lot of things. It`s actually often just another method of expressing our pain. Sometimes we draw back and become numb, sometimes things become so unbearable that we get angry. Like depression, anger can be fought and controlled.

Have some faith in yourself, you are worth it!

ChrystalR

Hi alinam,

Thanks for te advice. I am actively looking for another job, but for the time being I have to make due with this early shift work. It's bad for me, but I am afraid that not having any money coming in would be worse.

Here's hoping something better comes along. Thanks.

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Again, my main suggestion has always been to give a medication few weeks and it's not working, it's not working. It's either causing problems, or not treating the illness. Unless it's REALLY driving you up a wall, then talk to the docs about getting off of it ASAP. Seroquel drove me crazy, I made it know to the shrinks and they pulled me off of it. Buspar was kind of doing the same thing to me, but it put me in a little better place than I was with the Celexa alone. But again, I was in a terrible state at that point; I went from barely being function to slightly functional, so it was somewhat of an improvement.

I have always like the Neurontin, it's helped me a lot in the bigger doses. It does make me groggy, but I am still functional. It's better than the benzos because it's easy to get off of. And, I have had docs tell me to only take it at night, but it has such a short half life that it doesn't help me during the day. So, my shrink and I split the dose evenly throughout the day.
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I guess the grogginess is my major problem right now. It makes me feel "not right" and that makes me feel. . .I guess, depressed, sometimes anxious. I had a horrible time with the seroquel, too and refused to even try it a second time. I was given buspar once by a GP who must have just graduated yesterday. She gave me a lecture about how "dangerous" ativan is and that if I stopped taking it I would have a seizure. She told me I should taper off of it and take the buspar instead. I was so angry about her approach that I only tried the buspar a couple of times. It didn't work anyway. The neurontin does make me feel much mellower, usually but sometimes I don't feel a thing until it starts wearing off, then I get drowsy and crabby. I'm hoping the trileptal works out to be a little more consistent.

I had a few panic spells yesterday because I couldn't remember what I was doing, I couldn't type correctly, I felt like I "spaced out" while driving. I certainly can't function that way!

(((xephon))) Too bad we can't have the jobs we need and have to settle for the ones we got. I'm pretty lucky to have a M-F so I can at least keep in a routine until the evil weekend (no structure or distractions). I've just been reading a bit about triggers and realizing that a big part of my breakdown last fall was because of extreme exhaustion and sleep deprivation.

I hope you can find a job that gives you a schedule so you can get enough sleep.

Ali

This post has been edited by alinam: Nov 12 2009, 05:51 PM

Ali,

I guess the main reason why I like Neurontin so much is that docs will prescribe it over the benzos and they have no problems with increasing the dosage. Plus, the Klonopin depresses me and the Neurontin doesn't; nice and mellow, no depression. And Klonopin really is the only benzo, in my experience, that docs are willing to work with. It's less addictive than the rest and you don't develop a tolerance to it as fast.

If I was still experiencing a lot of agitation, the docs would be hard pressed to increase Klonopin at all, even given my current track record. But, they'd gladly increase the Neurontin because of it's non addictive nature, so it makes everything easier.

I just wish the neurontin was more consistent for me instead of making me groggy one day, mellow the next, not helpful at all this time and a "miracle drug" the next time. I guess I was hoping the trileptal would have a consistent positive effect, but the counselor yesterday scared me to death and told me it was a good thing I had my husband with me because he could take me somewhere if I started to spiral out of control! What was that supposed to mean!!?? All I told her was that I couldn't really tell how I was feeling, whether I was depressed or anxious or nothing. I think I feel more relaxed, but then, I also forgot to take my zoloft this morning. and I was groggy enough that I didn't take my ativan either. Hope I don't start having problems tomorrow.

Ali,

Wow, that doesn't sound like a very professional thing for a therapist to say... Obviously, if things get worse, he's going to be there to help out. It's as if they're saying that you can't take care of yourself, which just isn't true. Heck, you spend your whole week taking care of your family, obviously you're a responsible adult.

You know, the more I hear of your story, the more I think that your therapist may be a issue. They're communicating with the docs aren't they? Is there anyway you could get another therapist, someone a little more professional?

Actually, there is another counselor I could go to see that my mother recommended, and yes, sometimes I don't think she's very professional. I suppose she might be communicating with the psychiatrist but it seems like she wants me to start calling his office directly if I have an issue. Trouble is, if he's not going to be there at least M-F and I'm going to be waiting for him to check his messages, I just can't imagine that this is going to work. My husband thinks it will work out fine because he thinks I'm doing so much better, but every time I take a new med, I completely fall apart.

I just don't want to keep changing doctors because, first of all, there aren't that many that take my insurance, and second, I don't want to look like I'm running from one doctor to another looking for drugs.

I'm not used to feeling so out of control of what's happening. I'm used to being the one that keeps things together.

thanks for your support. I'll definitely consider seeing a different counselor.

Ali

Ali,

I had issues with my counselor as well...She was professional, but never seemed to listen to I when it came to medication.. I was having problems with the Buspar, explained it to her and she was very apathetic to the whole thing. I told her about all of my weird mood swings and really didn't get any help; it was pretty obvious that I was having BP issues, but she was dead set against all of it. Towards the end, I just didn't feel like she was really listening to me or had a whole lot of knowledge about mental illness or the medications involved. Given my past history and everything that was involved, I really didn't feel like I was getting much help. She never talked to my shrink, which I was happy about. I don't think that there needs to be communication between the docs and the shrinks because now you're adding another party into the situation. The information being passed back and forth can be misconstrued; always an issue. Plus, it looks like they aren't trusting you or your opinion. Once you find a good counselor, they can help you a lot, but it's just like the shrinks; there has to be a good relationship.

Changing mediation is a pain in the neck; there's no way around it. But, it's a necessary evil; they need to find what's going to work and what isn't. And it's really tough when the main medication that's holding you together is a benzo, especially when it's just getting you back to normal. But, it's hard on the shrinks too; they don't really know you're frame of mind. When you tell the them ativan stabilizes you, they don't assume that it's stabilizing you, they see it as a powerful drug that's getting you kind of stoned. And, they see a lot of people that are soo addicted to the benzos, they have a hard time prescribing it.

My major saving grace has been my hospitalizations, as well as my brother's; the medical professionals understand that there is a serious issue within the family. That's kind of tough for me to admit, but the docs know what they're dealing with and take an aggressive stance with it. So, if life gets really out of control and you're losing it, remember that the psychiatric centers can be extremely helpful.

I'm not even sure I would call my counselor professional. She's really nice, and maybe I haven't gotten the point of this counseling thing yet, but it seems like everything we talk about is so disjointed. She asks me how my husband is doing and when I tell him this has made us a bit distant she starts talking about some technique to help, but never really gets past a really basic definition, then she says we should research it online. When I first started seeing her I was having really bad anxiety all the time and she kept trying to give me techniques to deal with panic attacks (which I can do as long as they don't go on for hours or days or even months!). And personally, if a person has to discuss a particular case with their supervisor, they should only come back and share a treatment plan, not every detail of the conversation. I don't think that anyone is really bought in to whether I fit into one of the restrictive categories of bipolar, but I'm pretty sure that what I've been experiencing is mixed states, dysphoric mania or agitated depression. Trouble is, I'm terrified of trying any of the AP's because of what happened when I tried Seroquel, and there aren't many approved medications for mixed states or agitated depression other than AP's.

I've got to get back to myself soon, my husband and kids are falling apart, but if I can't tolerate any of the medications, I don't think that therapy is going to be helpful.

I know what you mean about the ativan and not being able to tell whether your moods are being stabilized or not. I've been asking that question since the beginning. How would I know if the SSRI was helping if I was "snowed" on ativan?
The good news is, I talked to my primary care doctor today and she said that she would refill my meds if I had a problem with doctors refusing to fill it. She has known me for years, and even though she hasn't been very helpful with figuring out what's wrong with me, at least I feel like she's on MY side.

I think I'll try calling the counselor my Mom recommended.

Thanks for your replies, I really appreciate it.

Ali

Ali-

I'm sorry you're family has taken such a hit, I know my wife really struggled when I was having problems. She just didn't understand the nature of mental illness, so it was hard on her. But, we made it through it, mainly because she knew that when things were at there worst, I would get as much help as I could.. But, it was hard on her, I was pretty irritable some days; I didn't take it out on her, but it was always obvious when I was agitated and off. And, unfortunately, when I was in a bad place emotionally, I generally wanted to be left alone.

Therapy helped me a lot with panic attacks and general anxiety, but not with BP mania and depression. For me, they are almost like a different cognitive reality; a reality that it basically out of my control. That was always my issue; especially with the bad, agitated mania, there wasn't anything I could do about it, except suffer until it got bad enough to pop an Ativan. Talk therapy did help me realize that I have too much invested in a certain family member's opinions; a family member who's poorly educated on most issues in my life, particularly my mental illness.

I was terrified when it came to changing medications, but it is necessary sometimes, especially when something's not working. BP issues, as I have found, are a whole different ball game from the standard depression/GAD problems. Sometimes, the issues may require some pretty potent meds (i.e. APs), meds that may cause a bit of 'zombie-esk' symptom.s What I have accepted is that I may never feel completely 'normal' again; I have learned to deal with the 'new' me. And, I have also accepted that if the issues arise again, there's a good chance I will feel even less normal. I have decided that will live in a medicated stupor before I EVER go through the mania and mixed episodes again. But, because of all of that, my shrink and I have a plan and it's only because I have accepted the fact that I can live in 'slow mode' if I have to. I accidently took my Lamicatal doses too close toegther and it made me very emotionally flat and foggy, so we know what will happen if we up the dose. And, honestly, I can honestly deal with that feeling.

So, I think a lot of being BP is accepting the fact that you may never back to 'normal'. It took me awhile to accept that, but it has helped me a great deal.

I wish I knew what happened to me. I don't know that I'm at a place to accept a "new me" if this is it. The trouble I'm having is that I have the agitation and irritability every day and almost all day and periodically I have a feeling of dread superimposed on that. That seems to be my "new normal" every day. When I get home, I'd love to be able to be alone, but the kids and hubby always want attention as they always have and there's nothing I can do about that. I don't just have episodes where I can say I'm having a bad day or a bad week and I can't push them all away and hide for months. I don't have a choice whether to work either. So I have the same stresses every day and no option to kick it down in to a 'slow mode' although I do the best I can to keep my emotions turned down as much as I can.

I really hoped the trileptal would help, since the lamictal seemed to make me to jazzed up, but now I just feel groggy and yuck and while I think it has helped to dull the anxiety a bit it also seems to have brought the depression to the forefront again. I'm back to crying at everything.

Does this even sound like bipolar? I thought bipolar folks were supposed to have some "good/normal" days with bouts of depression or mania a few times a year or so?

Ali

Ali,

To me, it sounds like you have given all of the SSRIs a go-around and have done so for awhile. Honestly, you're in the same boat I was in with the Celexa. I had been on it for years, tapered off of it, gotten back on it and it kicked my BP2 stuff into gear. All of the symptoms that you are describing are the same ones that I have had; until I got off of the Celexa completely. So, IMO, I would say that you are BP2 and that the Zoloft is causing you a lot of problems. You said that with every increase in Zoloft dose, the issues became worse. To me, that's a sure sign that something's not working. Back when the Celexa worked for me, every increase in dose would just mellow me out more and more.

Talk to the docs about getting off of the Zoloft, because it isn't working and may be causing more issue. Talk to them about sticking with the current medication you are on, but get off of the Zoloft and go from there. I know that if I were on a therapeutic dose of Celexa right now, along with the Lamictal, I would be having some serious mood swing issues. Getting off of the Zoloft and on straight mood stabilizers or APs may just be the answer for you.