Over the years it seems that, despite therapy, my depressive symptoms have only gotten worse. It's gotten to the point where I contemplate either suicide, self harm, or both on a weekly if not a daily basis. However, I have never committed either, well maybe the self harm, but it was pretty superficial. Now, I was thinking about all this and the times where it feels like there’s so much clutter in my head that I just want to smash my head repeatedly against the wall, strangely thinking that head trauma will alleviate a headache (completely irrational), and began to question what keeps me from doing so. For that matter, why is it that whenever I feel emotional to the point I think I could cry, I simply do not, rather I sit with a stoic expression and if someone begins to talk to me, I make a note to mask any and all signs. The answer I came to was that I am completely disenchanted by the very prospect of suicide, self harm, and public displays of depression. Now, there are plenty of other extraneous reasons, the massive emotional impact it would have on my friends and relatives, the trauma that the one who found me would incur, and of course the all powerful fear of nonexistence, but first and foremost, I kind of just feel like it's an overly dramatic gesture. Very peculiar, I think. Pardon me if this sounds unsympathetic, but teenage suicide simply seems so passé, unromantic. So while a level of my consciousness is utterly wracked with guilt, humiliation, depression, self loathing, and what have you, another level, in a most detached fashion, simply feels bored with all the complaining, chalking it up to narcissism and victimization. Does anyone else feel this way? It's rather surreal.
Also, I hate how impudent this will sound, but I’m rather tired of all the “it’s just part of being a teenager” rhetoric. For one thing, the mere fact that others are suffering doesn’t make me any happier, nor does it make me feel a part of something grander. Moreover, it’s also always struck me as being a really easy way to gloss over an issue without offering any semblance of sympathy or advice. Bah, well this is all just one big rant anyway.

Sorry again if this was overly hostile or offensive, it's just that the anonymity of the web offers a nice, though perhaps unhealthy, means of releasing pent up frustration (these things seem better left out of relationships and social affairs, and besides, I can always change screen-names or forums).

This post has been edited by MurphysLaw0: Sep 17 2007, 08:32 PM

I'm so, so, sorry for your pain!!!! You have found a really good place here, and even though I don't have anything great to say to you, I am certain that someone here will!! Just hold on and don't give up, OK??

Even though I don't know what to say to you.......I still did not want to read your words and not say anything. Please, take my offer of support, as it is intended. Just a voice "out there", to tell you that your not alone, and you have found a place to help. Maybe look around and read some other posts. I hope you find some help here, I think you will.......

You are very well spoken, I can tell by your post, you are no dummy!! Good luck, we are all kindred spirits here

to the site,and i'm glad You have found Your self here,first You will find very supportive and friendly people here..it's alright to rant,and feel everything that Your feeling,it's part of our emotions. I have dealt with Depression,and at times i still do My Mother was severly depressed,and tried to take Her Life many times,even while carrying me,and in 1999,on July 30th,my Mother ended Her Life...i've even been there myself,which i wrote my story in "my blog" Your most welcome to read my story,just click on my name....and Your right it would defenetly leave a emotional impact on Friends,and Family if something happened to You...thru out this forum and in different areas of topics,You will find Others who relate,and will be here to help....even to listen and if You need someone to talk with,always know that my pm is always open......Your more then welcome to pm me,if You need too You have Friends here,Friends who are supportive..keep writting,and don't give up..I enjoy reading what Your feeling,besides...."when You talk,always remember....."You Heal". hope to hear from You again......."bear"

This post has been edited by bear: Sep 17 2007, 07:28 PM

MurphysLaw0, I think I get similar feelings. Sometimes I bore myself from thinking too much about why I feel down. I realise this isn't a good thing, because if I'm boring myself with my own state of mind, what chance do I have of finding anyone who gives two hoots about how I feel?

I'm sorry I don't have any answers for you, but perhaps my seeing things from a similar perspective will be of some comfort.


acontradiction

I am exactly like you when someone else is involved. If someone else is in the room then the stoic expression is employed and whatever thoughts come to mind are never brought to fruition. the same occurs when i want to kill myself or hurt myself in a big way. I dont do such things because other people would notice and that stops me. You've really articulated my feelings quite well. nothing public, always private.

you're not alone!

the forum admins are very careful about allowing anyone to post thoughts that may act as triggers to others. so i want to tread as lightly as possible on this subject. i have no authority, no expertise or even experience that proffers me the right to give solid advice on this very serious issue. but i'd like to offer my experience anyway, because discourse seems to be the only real path to understanding.

i always felt the same way about suicide. well mostly. i've never been deeply suicidal, never inflicted any physical harm on myself or others. the thought of it, the very concept of suicide is like an old joke. a bad one at that. every thought in my head may be screaming that there is no reason to live, but the thought of suicide just seems absurd. i used to try to imagine it, but i felt foolish. there was a rash of teenage suicides at my highschool and it seemed like that ought to be the next step. but it wasn't. i'm having trouble expressing it right now but it's exactly what you say. passe. then i think to myself, i still have the self respect not to seriously consider making a fool of myself by doing something so stupid. but can i pass it off as stupid? if life really is that aweful, why continue? it occurs to me that though i never inflicted physical harm, that denying myself physical harm i manifest the same self destructive impulse emotionally. i tell myself what a fool i'd seem, then i think how foolish it is to care what others think after i'm gone. that thinking quickly grows cyclical, and i shut out the thoughts as much as possible. that can't be healthy thought.

i also empathize with you in your sentiment about teenage depression. i'm 24 now and the depression is still here and going strong, so hearing people say "it's just teenage angst" is a little infuriating. but the point is i'm still here. i've found more and more things in life that i can do to make myself happy. there is value in life, the trick is that we have to pursue it. suicide isn't an answer. neither is dismissal of the issue.

I see what you're saying and agree with you. Like I said, I'm not suicidal in the least, no matter how much the thought crosses my mind, I am very much so in control of my actions...for the most part (I suppose almost as much as any one person can truly claim to be). The thought that "I shouldn't worry about what people think when I'm gone" might be something that's crossed my mind, but honestly, as long as I am alive I can't simply discount the inevitable trauma that I would inflict on others by taking my life; I simply can't justify the action knowing the outcome. And I really didn't want to come off as being insensitive, I don't view those who harm themselves or take their own lives poorly, I do have sympathy for them as well as their family and friends, it's just that I started the above topic at a low point in my emotional cycle. The fact is, I have a very high set of personal moral codes that I've adopted over the years, codes which I hold myself to but not necissarily everyone else. Is it wrong for others to commit suicide, well, I suppose I ought to leave that to personal interpretation, however I would advise anyone in that state of mind to seriously consider the long term consequences of your decisions. Depression has this funny way of inducing this illusion of isolation, it makes you feel like you're completely alone without any connection to the world, when that is rarely ever true. Anyway, I don't view suicide as a damnable sin or anything of the sort, however, it would be wrong for me to commit that sort of action knowing full well the emotional backlash it would have on many of the people I know and, even if I can't bring myself to admit it, love me. So that's that. Again, I wrote it at a very low point. My original post was merely that restless and destructive shadow I keep locked away in the back corner of my mind, it's not me (well, not entirely at least).

This is off topic, maybe I'll make a new one, but is there anyone who suffers from depression and is completely obsessed with duality? I have to admit, I am, that and the number 2, complimentary pairs, and polar opposites. I have no idea why, it's just something I've always had an absurdly intense interest in.

I'm the same way, I don't know why, even though it seems like the opposite of whats helpful, I tend to keep my depression to myself. I think its because I figure everybody else will just deem my problems trivial and think less of me for letting things get to me so much and affect me so badly.

Sorry about the double post. Man I can't do ANYTHING right!

This post has been edited by blueyes: Sep 26 2007, 02:45 AM

[Laughing] Now that's something trivial that you shouldn't feel bad about. I don't think this forum is terribly anal about double posting. In fact, this place has one of the best communities out of all the forums I've visited. To put it colorfully, most every other internet forum eventually reduces itself to one massive Biotch fit at some point. However, people here tend to be pretty mild, which is a pleasant thing indeed.

do you think maybe you over-analyze things too much? -- just an observation about your post not a judgement
my son does that almost all the time -- without someone to counter his thoughts, it takes his mind to places he is better off not going to

i'm not suggesting this as a solution to your depression, but maybe if you found something else to occupy your mind for a little while
and give these thoughts a rest, you might feel a little better?

it's possible to almost drown in thoughts sometimes -- or i guess it feels that way to me sometimes
and then, i'll do something (usually physical) that makes me forget for a time -- and it puts things back into perspective

just a thought -- i'm sure it wouldn't help everyone

Yes, I am an over thinker, and yes I've been told that I should do less of it and really just work to get outside myself. Well, these thoughts really just pop up during depressive periods...well, no I suppose I'm always pretty deep in thought. I have to admit though, I hate that me attempting some deep thinking is seen as some how being without true virtue, that not only would I be better off being a very surface level individual, but that shallow thinking is something to strive for. Ah, sorry. I see what you mean and don't mean to discredit you, that was just a little slippage of hostility. I apologize.

no offense taken -- i didn't mean that you should be shallow -- just that you should take a break from it from time to time

i do the same from time to time & truely enjoyed my philosophy classes in school -- but i could see where taken to it's limits, it could lead to true insanity

isn't there a saying about how close genius is to insanity? I'm terrible about exact quotes & such -- but I'm sure you've heard it.

Yeah, there is a quote that follows that line of thought, though I would by no means lable myself a genius. I don't think about anything more complex than anyone else, I just find it a bit harder to disengage. But, your right, it is important to get outside your own head. Furthermore, I like philosophy a lot as well, but I also feel at times that certain questions that are asked within the field, such as the definition of "the", something a professor actually did either doctorial or graduate work on, can be a tad inane. My interest in philosophy only goes so far, if I can't see how a theory is pertinent to people and society, I usually deem it to be rather tedious, like the above example. Who will benefit from a definition of "the"? I suppose I just tend to lean more towards a huamanistic path, in which case I'm being unnecessarily hard on the study since that would mean that my only real gripe with it is that it doesn't fit with my perception of what philosophy's purpose should be (that's a run on, oops).

Are you sure your not a genius?? Have you ever tested your IQ??

And um yes you do think about things more complex than a lot of people!!! But I'm not saying that is a bad thing, quite the contrary, I can be the same way, but not nearly as brilliantly as you!!!!

i have to say, last year i took a class called "grammar and stylistics" which went deeper into grammar than i thought humanly possible. we had a full day's lecture on the difference between the definite and indefinite articles ("a" and "the") and i have to admit that i found it absolutely fascinating. the distinction is so subtle yet so vast...

i'm not sure you can admonish the dwelling of issues, but i agree that breaks are incredibly valuable. you have to leave a train of thought alone long enough that when you come back to it you'll see it a new way. think of it this way: who we are and how we see the world is constantly evolving with every experience. as you delve into an idea, you are investigating it from a single perspective, who you are at that moment. but if you step away for an hour, a day, a week -- long enough to become a slightly different person by virtue of new experiences -- then you'll be amazed at how differently you might see a problem. even an hour doing something else can be long enough to go back as a different person, with a new perspective.

as a writer, i can't go far enough extolling the virtues of perspective. after i write an article i give myself at least a day before going back to edit. second drafts written the same day don't amount to much. it's the longer i take between drafts that make a real difference in the quality of my writing.

and to tie it all back somehow to the issue at hand... i often have to remind myself to apply this methodology to my own thoughts, especially depressive thoughts, because the effects can be extraordinary. i go in endless circles sometimes, truly endless. it's akin to being lost in the woods of my mind, running furiously trying to find a exit, or even a clearing, and passing the same trees over and over again. so i beat myself up for the repetitive thoughts, i cut down the trees that i don't want to see again. but thats no cure. all i end up doing is returning to the stump. instead of running past the evil trees i rest on their stumps because it's the only place to sit and by now the exertion is overwhelming. so i sit and stagnate in my thoughts. no longer escaping, but putting down roots of my own in the darkest corners of this forest. but i know there are glades and valleys to enjoy. i know i shouldn't be sitting here on this stump. so eventually i remember to get up, and instead of running blindly i start walking slowly. i try to map out the forest and on the rare occasion i begin to enjoy the forest. it's not an evil forest after all, it just has it's darker places.

sorry for playing inside that metaphor for so long. i really didn't go where i wanted it to. maybe i'll revisit it in a few days for another draft, and i'll find a way to make it work with the theme of perspective...

Euthyphro, I agree entirely your statement concerning how thought and perception follows principals of evolution. I would never discount that. And yes, I was speaking purely from a singular point of view, which I believe I stated previously.

Euthyphro.

That post was amazing!!! I wish I was half as intelligent as you and Murphyslaw!!!!

It's always nice to be an individual, and make our own statement's - perhaps some teenagers think they're making the "Ultimate Sacrifice" in a profound, romantic statement? Who know's, but in my own way I kind of understand what you're alluding to when you brought that up, and no I don't think you were out-of-order or too crass. Certainly I have the utmost sympathy for ANY victim of suicide. The romance in suicide's gone though, it went with Romeo And Juliet and this goes for everyone.

I have to say I'm bored with all of the 's***' that comes with this illness. The crying, the suicidal thoughts, the torture of another day... Waking up HORRIFIED because the pain didn't take flight overnight. However as I've aged I've become grateful, even though I still feel like s*** the majority of the time. I too, have certainly pondered my mortality and what happens after death? Non-existence was welcome at the lowest of lows, when my depression hurt so much I would have gladly made a grand exit given the chance - however by that time thankfully I was in 5-point restraints in a medical facility with many of my other countrymen in this wonderful chasm of joy and misery I've come to know as Seattle. I've wondered and cringed at the thought of my mom, dad, sister finding me and that's unacceptable. Plus I have two young, young nephew's who'd never recover from it.

While the symptoms have gotten worse, my response to them in kind has changed - like you mentioned, the complaining, narcissism, and victimization... What I've come to realize is that we all go through s***. In fact, my s***'s a lot lighter than some, and much heavier than other's. I hate to use the term "man-up" to my pain, because people have told me in essence to "pull my bootleg's up and get out of the house!" so many times, and evertime I heard that I wanted to give them a good uppercut to the jaw for a TKO.

I think I've subconsciously programmed myself to finally "get up". Don't get me wrong, I still feel like s***. I have suicidal thoughts and have morbid suicidal thoughts often. I detest the idea of suicide though, and I detest being a victim. I detest the fact that I'm narcissistic and still complain to this day. I'm disenfranchised with the idea of depression and letting it kill me though. I used to embrace depression and KNEW I'd take a leave of absense by 21, the prospect of making 30 was ludicrous.

Now, everyday I wake up my perspective's changed even if the illness hasn't. I appreciate your post and enjoyed reading it - I realize you posted this in 07', of course I hope all's well with you in June 08' and your many year's to come

Peace and love to you all, I wish everyone of your burden's lifted

I don’t think you’ll find many that commit suicide because they think it’s romantic or something of that kind. It’s not a romance, it’s an escape. At the time when you are in extreme pain & despair you don’t really care how it will affect anyone else, you just want to “end it”. Have you ever felt what it’s like to be burnt? At that moment were you really thinking what others would feel about it or you just did something to stop it? Well, now imagine your whole arm is on fire & you can’t do anything about it, not for a minute, not for an hour, but for a really really long time. Do you really think you could be thinking about anything else other than ending that pain?
It seems to me like you are imagining yourself in someone else’s shoes without really knowing the size. Maybe that’s a sign of long term solitude. While short term solitude can cause healthy thinking, long term solitude can develop into thought pattern “fatigue”.

I’m sorry if my post seems insensitive, it’s really not..

Just my 2¢

I do similiar things. I think I have gotten to the point that I can act like a normal person on the outside n o matter what I'm feeling on the inside. The reason I am this way is because I am sick of people giving me advice on my depression. I can't stand it when people who have no inkling of what I'm going through tell me to "get over it", "see a doctor", talk to someone", as if I haven't tried all these things. I'd rather hide it the best I can and just wait for death. Don't get me wrong, I know these people are trying to help but it gets to be very frustrating repeating myself over and over to the same people year after year.

Oh, and teen angst just becomes adult angst.