Lynn

Member

Group: Senior Member
Posts: 1873
Joined: Dec. 2001


Posted: May 22 2004,04:04
  

http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/topicarchive.htm

I found this website today and it will take me forever to read all the questions and answers on here about bipolar and meds. I put it in my favorites to go back to. It is by Dr. Jim Phelps. Check it out!  



Thanks Lynn!

I went to this website and I am still wondering if I have symptoms of Bipolar...at least strong enough that some one would consider that I have it. I have been questioning my mental state in the past couple of weeks. The other day at work I swear I felt manic. I was hyped up and felt like I couldn't calm down. Also, I heard my name being whispered but there was no one around, which makes me wonder what is going on. I am depressed and have been having suicidal thoughts lately which are odd. (Don't worry, I am okay). I just want to know what is going on. How did any of you first think you may have Bipolar?

I actually thought that I was going "crazy" and that my thyroid was out of whack again.  I thought that maybe my hypothyroid had gone hyperthyroid because of the many changes that had taken place in my body and mind.  (many symptoms of your thyroid are the same, and indeed a high percentage of bipolars ARE hypothyroid).  I AM hypothyroid, but thought that something had gone terribly wrong with my thyroid because of what was going on with me.
I couldn't sleep, I was pacing, crying, hearing things much too loudly, seeing things too brightly, thoughts racing too fast, all my senses were on alert and working overtime.  I had dropped 25 pounds and was like a caged animal.  I hadn't slept in 6 weeks!  I was inconsolable!  I was in an acute manic phase brought on by Celexa (an anti-depressant) and had no idea!  I went to an endocrinologist to see about my thyroid, and he sent me to a psychiatrist!  So, I WAS crazy after all?!  Indeed, I was bipolar!  within 36 hours of mood stabilizers and anti-psychotics, anti-seizure medications, I was a new woman!  I could sleep, my mind was still, I stopped pacing, My mind was silent and I stopped crying... I was at peace.  Thank goodness they had found the reason "why". :)  Bipolar I, Rapid Cycler... (we would soon find out about the Rapid Cycling).  
That's how I found out.  It was a nasty road.  Six weeks of hell.  And I've had other manic cycles since, but at least we knew what we were up against.  That time we had NO idea.  
I wish you peace.

Good luck,
Cat

I am a returning member, but have not visited in a number of years.  I can't figure out how to start my own topic and I didn't see any topic that addressed this so hopefully I'm not committing a major faux pas by posting here. If so, please forgive me and point me in the right direction.

I have struggled with depression all my life and recently discovered that I married a man who is bipolar  .... or at least that's what the doctors think at this moment.  He is newly diagnosed and since diagnosis has been through  a rather intense 6 months of ramping up on meds, tweaking meds, tapering meds, etc. etc.  He is working with a pharmacologist that seems wonderful and really on top of it, but the problem is that during this period of adjustment (from now until we figure out what meds work for him) it is really an emotional rollercoaster living with him.  It's impossible to navigate his moods.  He's not volatile like he used to be prior to meds, but since we still haven't found the perfect combination he's still really unstable.  No matter what I do I hit landmines when I'm around him.  One second he's all besotted and telling me how much he needs me and the next he's not talking to me.  I just don't know what to do.  If I stay clear of him he gets intensely angry with me for not being affectionate, pointing out how I should be more considerate and understanding of how he really needs me right now.  I DO understand that this is difficult for him, but it is also excruciating for me, too, and is affecting our young son as well.  I'm crying half the time out of stress and just pure fatigue over having to hear "I'm sorry" one more time.  I know he can't help it, or I don't think he can ....  We have periods where the medication works great and I can see a strong, stable person behind all that anger and aggression.  But, when the meds aren't working and the negativity starts to infect everything again .... our home becomes toxic.  We can't be near each other without some sort of offense occurring.  If I try to give him space he gets worried that I don't love him.  I don't know what to do keep sane through all of the adjustment periods that I'm sure I have in my future if I want to stay married to him.  Our main problem is that whenever he is . .. .mean ... to me I withdraw to protect myself and to try to ride through it on my own.  Withdrawing emotionally and physically, that is.  I'm not trying to punish him.  I simply cannot be intimate with someone who has treated me cruelly all day.  It makes me literally feel sick to my stomach to envision trying to be intimate with him at those times.  He tells me that I create a vicious circle.  The more I don't want to be touched, the more irritable and agnry he gest.  But ... it's not a chickn or the egg thing much as he would like to pretend that it is.  It's his mental illness that creates the situation to begin with and yet ... how do I get us out of it?! Any advice from biplor sufferers or spouses or SO's on how I can stay psychologically and spiritually intact?

Hi, sjgal.  What a difficult position you find yourself in. I'm not quite sure what I can say to you that would be useful.  I am diagnosed bipolar but am on a med cocktail that has been working well for me for a while now.  However, I can recall going through some of the mood swings you describe your husband as having.  Has he always had these symptoms or is this something new that has come up recently?

ShroedingersCat ~ I've known him for 4 years and he has always had terrible mood swings, but I really don't know if he was like this before I met him.  He was married previously and he doesn't recall ever having any altercations with his ex-wife in regard to his mood.  However, from what I know of their relationship and the dynamics I think it is more likely that she never called him on it like I do.  I hold him accountable for his behavior and call him on it.  I'm quite direct and the aggressive/volatile side of him prior to medication didn't handle this very well.

Well, I doubt the symptoms appeared right when he met you.  I know that I didn't recognize my symptoms until I took a real long, hard look at myself.  It could be that he is in denial and just doesn't want to recognize that he has had this problem for a long time.  I'd be willing to bet that it had an effect on his previous marriage too.  It does sound like you are living in a very unhealthy atmosphere right now and I am sorry that it is affecting your son.  What is your husbands attitude about his treatment?  Is he entirely engaged in the process or is he doing it just to satisfy you?

SC

At peak argument moments he claims he's doing it all for me and this is discouraging because I feel like that statement implies I am responsible for what he does.  I want him to be responsible for himself, to choose to get medical help because he knows it is the best thing for him to be a compassionate human being.   At his lucid moments  he tells me that he knows he is doing the right thing by taking medication.

sjgal, please understand that you are NOT responsible for his moods or behavior.  Unfortunately, my experience has been that what we say in the heat of battle is an accurate representation of what is really going on in our head.  Not always, but a lot of the time I think this is the case.  He is going to have to come to terms with his diagnosis and treatment, and I just hope he doesn't hurt you too much in the process.  Do you think he would consider couples counselling to get some of this stuff out in the open?

SC

We were in counseling before his diagnosis and it didn't help much then, but perhaps it would be effective now that he's on medication.  He's resistant because it was not benefical before and also, of course, there is the financial burden.  We have to pay the full fee out-of-pocket, plus arrange for a babysitter.  It is so expensive that it makes it nearly impossible.

I do believe he would never have gone down the road of talk therapy and drug therapy without my insistence.  And if our marriage were to dissolve he would end his drug therapy. He has told me so.

I do know that I am not responsible for his behavior.

From what you have said, it really sounds like your husband isn't recognizing his problems and that he is subjecting himself to treatment just to please you.  Not a healthy approach in my humble opinion.  Counseling could be helpful, but only if both of you go into it with open minds.  I understand that the costs are prohibitive.  I can't imagine where I would be without my insurance.  Honestly, I think I would be dead or locked up in a county hospital somewhere.

SC

You are right ... there is an element of subjection to his treatment.  He often states that he hates taking pills and wouldn't be doing it but for the fact that he doesn't want to lose me.  I feel so sad about this since I feel that good mental health must be achieved by one's internal desire to heal thy self.

Thank you for all your kind words and advice.  I hope we will find our way back to counseling at some point.

I'll keep a good thought for you and your husband.  I'm always happy to listen if you need to talk.

SC

thanks SC, good advice.  Welcome to the forums, sjgal!  It's nice to have you here.  
You know, sometimes it's just plain hard to tell if those moods you're seeing are actually bipolar occurrences, or just plain moods from the stress of it all.  Hopefully, in time both of you will be able to distinguish between them.  Because he shouldn't be able to get away with just being b*tchy  :;):  (cause goodness knows, WE can't, can we?)

Good luck on figuring it out... it just takes time, patience, and the "want to"

wishing you love and laughter,
Cat

I think we were both a bit discouraged reading on the forum that it takes 2-3 years for medication to stabilize and that in the longrun we are in for a lifetime of having to rework things to find the right pharmaceutical combination.  I just don't know how marriages/relationships survive during those tumultuous times!  Perhaps some of the behavior is controllable, but I do believe that a lot of his mood swings are not ....which doesn't make it any easier for me and try as I might it is difficult not to resent him for treating me poorly even when I know that he is not directly to blame for it, that mental illness is nobody's 'fault'.

Thank you for listening ....

sjgal, it does not neccessarily take 2-3 years for a person to get stable on meds.  The trick is finding the right med(s) and the right dosages.  Once I finally got the right diagnosis and meds, I stabilized very quickly.  I advise taking an aggressive approach with the doctor.  If the current meds/dosages are not working, hound the doc to make a change.  Mood stabilizers and anti-psychotics are not like anti-depressants.  They do not take 2-3 months to see the results.

SC

He has been diagnosed bipolar with social anxiety.  He is on trileptal and wellbutrin.  How does that fit into the stabilizing scheme?

Well, keep in mind I am not a doctor, so any info I offer is worth exactly what you paid for it  :D .  The Trileptal is prescribed as a mood stabilizer and it should not take very long at all to see some benefits.  Wellbutrin is prescribed as an anti-depressant.  ADs in general can take some time to show results.  Two to three months is not uncommon.  Now, the thing about antidepressants and people with bipolar is that the AD can cause mania, so you have to watch that very carefully.  Personally, I was prescribed Wellbutrin and it sent me into a very ugly mania within a week.  It is fairly common knowledge that Wellbutrin can increase anxiety, so I find that to be an interesting choice for your husband with his social anxiety.  But, everyone can respond different to these meds, so what happened to me won't neccessarily happen to your husband.  Currently, I take 150 mg of Effexor XR for my anti-depressant each day and that seems to work for me.

SC

I trust the advice and experiences of the people on the forum more than any doctor I've ever had, so please do not discount your 'services'!  Three years ago I was on effexor and had to get off quickly when I became unexpectedly pregnant.  My primary doc told me to take one pill every other day for one week, then quit.  Consequently, I was in bed for the entire month of July 2001 and I mean this very literally. I did not get out of bed for anything except to go to the bathroom.  I could not sit up without the room spinning and having terrible brain zaps.   I thought I was dying or going crazy ... or both.  When I was able to finally sit up without throwing up I went on-line in search of help because I'd already been BACK to that idiot doctor of mine and he'd acted confused about why I was having any problems at all!  It wasn't until I found this forum that I  realized I was NOT going crazy, rather I was having severe withdrawl symptoms.  This forum was my lifeline.

With that said, thank you for the info on what you know of wellbutrin.  I will DEFINITELY pass this on to my husband.

sjgal

Yikes, that is a scary story about Effexor.  I'm well aware, thanks to this forum, that some people have terrible withdrawal from Effexor.  I have kind of buried my head in the sand about this since the Effexor is working for me and I don't plan on quitting it in the foreseeable future.  At one point when I was in a very deep depression I was taking the Effexor along with 60 mg of Paxil per day.  I had heard the horror stories about coming off of Paxil, but my pdoc weaned me off slowly and I never had any noticable withdrawal symptoms.  I've always wondered if this lack of withdrawal was due to continuing with Effexor.

SC

SC, I had just the opposite effect that you had with Effexor and Wellbutrin.  The Effexor sent me into a bad mixed state and the Wellbutrin has not.  It is amazing how we all have different reactions and experiences with the various drugs available.

It continues to amaze me how two people can have such different reactions to these brain meds.  That doesn't make a pdoc's job very easy.

SC

How do I know whether my husband's abusive behavior is his bipolor illness showing its ugly head or that he gets some sort of satisfaction in hurting me?  I can't distinguish anymore ....

Boy, that is a really difficult question to answer, sjgal.  I'm trying to think of some clues as to whether or not he could be suffering dysphoric mania or depression.  For me, a decrease in sleep is a good indicator that I am becoming manic.  Frenzied activity is another indicator.  Working on several things at once is another.  Depression, for me, means withdrawing into my own little world.  I don't have a nasty disposition.  I just want to be left alone.

Without knowing your husband, it is indeed difficult to answer your question.  Does he go through periods where he is not abusive?  What indicators do you have that he is getting satisfaction out of hurting you?

SC

He goes through brief periods where he is not abusive.  They are literally only a few minutes at a time. We are having run-ins on a daily basis.  There was a period of a couple months this summer where things were GREAT ... then the old irritability started to creep back into our relationship and before I knew it I was huddling alone in the guest room crying again.  I told him to go back to his pharmacologist, which he did and that's when he was put on Wellbutrin again with his trileptal ... unfortunately I dont' remember what he was on when things were going well and he has not kept a journal.  I am encouraging him to do this.

I'm having difficulty understanding his biploar diagnosis ... he does not seem to have manic episodes aside from a bit of overspending and sudden overwhelmingly positive feelings about life and 'us'  ~ and I mean one day we're arguing and the next he's expressing his undying love for me.  Also, his depression apparently comes through as irritability, volatility, aggressiveness,etc.  He has no extreme highs or lows, but rather a lot of general moodiness and inability to show any sort of stability in any area of his life. His mood fluctuates OFTEN in the span of a couple seconds.  We can be having a perfectly pleasant time together and suddenly something I did or didn't do sets him off and then I'm crying again because he's disappointed in me, angry with me, whatever.

I don't know if he enjoys hurting me ... that's why I'm asking.  I'm just starting to wonder if he gets some sort of pleasure from it because he hasn't stopped being abusive.  The nature of the emotional abuse is not as volatile, but it is still there and insidious.  We can have a 'discussion' and he'll get very apologetic and sad and say he can't believe he's hurting me, that he won't do it again ... and then he does the next day or even a few hours later.

sjgal - You might want to read the threads about dysphoric mania and bipolar manifestations if you haven't already done so.  There is good info in those threads about manic symptoms.

As far as your husband's bipolar diagnosis is concerned, I'm not really in a position to question that since I don't know your husband and I am not a doctor.  However, I can point out that someone can just plain have a nasty disposition without being bipolar.  I'm not saying that is the case with your husband, but it is a possibility.  You mentioned that there was an extended period this summer that he behaved differently, but then he slipped back into his old, abusive behavior.  That makes me wonder if the meds he was taking were starting to work and just needed adjustment when he started to backslide.  It might be worthwhile for your husband to check with his doc to see what he was taking during that good period if he can't remember.  I would definitely advise that he tell his doctor that what he is taking now doesn't seem to be working.

Your husband's pattern of being abusive then apologetic then abusive again is typical in an abusive relationship.  The abuser apologizes, but then goes on to continue the same abusive behavior.  It's a never ending cycle.  I am worried a great deal about the effect all of this is having on you and your son.  The fact of the matter is that whether your husband's behavior is due to bipolar disorder or this is just his natural personality, it has the same effect on your family.  It just doesn't sound like a healthy environment to me.

SC

It is a sad day for me .. . I have been crying for so many weeks .... the tears hide in my throat all day, choking me. My husband and I had a talk last night and have decided on a time frame within which he will need to show remarkable improvement or else I will leave him. I can no longer put my son through this anymore.  He watches us with solemn eyes and asks me, "Mommy sad?" My husband has readily agreed to start seeing a psychiatrist and will be getting some recommendations this week from his pharmacologist.  I am also looking for a therapist myself.

Schoedringers Cat ~ thank you for your advice and thoughts.  I feel so alone right now, so scared.  This is the only place I feel I can really share my thoughts.

I'm sorry you are going through such a rough time right now, sjgal.  I think you have done the right thing by setting a time frame with your husband.  I know how difficult that must have been for you to do, but in the long run maybe this will give him the kick in the pants he needs to make more of an effort to get better.  I also think that it will benefit you to talk to a therapist.  From what you have posted I can tell that you have been under a lot of stress and you have a lot of things to get off of your chest.

I'll be keeping a good thought for you and your family.  Please know that we are here to listen whenever you need to talk about things.

SC

SJ & SC, I've browsed through your thread, sometimes the docs even have trouble diagnosing Bipolar. The drugs take on the norm (if they are working) 60-90 days. Sometimes you can see an improvement right away, but taking the meds on a regular basis is very important. WB did absolutely nothing for me. I am partly drug resistant or have bad reactions to them. My pdoc had to experiment on me to get the right combo of AD & stabilizers. I know that in a year or so, the drugs may become ineffective and the search will start over. In the meantime, I am stable.

Cat, I had Grave's disease shortly after I was diagnosed bipolar. The symptoms are similar to a manic episode. I know the difference now as I had a very intensive medical investigation to diagnose the thyroid condition. I dropped alot of weight back then. It was a noticable problem as I was already very thin. And I was high as a kite and could not concentrate on any of my college courses. Actually, my chem prof was the one who noticed the change and referred me to my doc. It was a very scary situation.

Take care and go well
Sheepwoman

sjgal - Haven't heard from you in a few days and was just wondering how you are doing.  Are you OK?

SC