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Jan 28 2008, 01:02 PM
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Advanced Member
   
Group: Advanced Member
Posts: 277
Joined: 29-November 07
From: British Columbia, Canada
Member No.: 20,885

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All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more.
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Jan 28 2008, 02:29 PM
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Gold Member
      
Group: Gold Member
Posts: 1,250
Joined: 15-April 07
From: SW Washington State, USA
Member No.: 15,504

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QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 28 2008, 10:02 AM)  All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more. I get energy to keep going from others. My first ring of support is here. Keep posting. Listen to your responses. Let everyone here get into your heart. Let everyone love you and hold you up, and don't you ever let go of the wonderful people here. There just may be more love and acceptance and support here than anywhere else this side of heaven. You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." It is the most cleaver trap of a circle reasoning there is. Like the alcoholic. Why am I an alcoholic? Because I drink. Why do I drink? Because I am an alcoholic. So when you feel too close to self-termination, just hit the "Restore Defaults" key (and weep for your lost life if that key does not work). Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. Finally, in reference to sentence five of your last paragraph, it is not that the world does not want you; it is that you do not want you. On one level, the world wants everyone and everything upon, below, and above it. The world does not judge who or what it does not want. In reverse, the world may not care who or what is on, under, or above it. Either way, your presence in this world is 100% permissible. You have permission to be here. You belong here. Where else do you belong? In outer space? In the Crab Nebula? On Charon? No. You are a man, and you belong on earth--at least for now, but that is another topic all together. Gandalf_The_Grey, I love you. Because I finally love myself, I love you. When I see you, I see myself. That is the beauty of DF. We know each other. We are each other. We you are down, I help you up. When I am down, you help me up. We all go together into the promise. Period. Case closed. Without each other, who would put up with us. We put up with each other because all of us have been, are now, or will be in the same place--despair, suicide thinking, hopelessness, devastating depression, trapped in the dark place inside. So, please Gandalf_The_Grey, hang on. Do not give in. No matter what, restore default settings 1,000 times an hour if necessary. Love, Larry
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Jan 28 2008, 02:30 PM
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Platinum Member
       
Group: Member
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 5-July 07
From: San Fransisco California
Member No.: 17,342

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If you can't see the point, make one.
Nothing in your present life fulfills you, so you'll have to make some changes, a little at a time. Computer programming sounds interesting. Read one page today, no matter what. A chapter if you feel like it. You need to bring things into your life that interest you and make you feel more empowered. Computer programming can lead to so many things, so many possibilities, with varying levels of social interaction. You can get a job that allows more people into your life, and make some "real-life" friends. That may lead to an intimate relationship. But you have to take the first step, and then another, etc., until your life has changed into something worthwhile.
I don't mean to minimize your pain at all. I've been stuck in the feeling of worthlessness and futility many times, although I've never had major physical pain issues. I've often wondered what the point is, and many times I've had to tell myself "Just because. Just for the hell of it. Just out of curiosity." A little anger can be helpful, too, just getting fed up with the status quo. Anger isn't healthy to hold on to for a long time, but sometimes it's just what we need to give us the energy to rise out of despondency and helplessness.
I'm sorry you're feeling so down, and I hope this helps.
--------------------
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. ~Buddha
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Jan 28 2008, 09:01 PM
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Advanced Member
   
Group: Advanced Member
Posts: 359
Joined: 15-September 07
From: Perth, Australia
Member No.: 19,021

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You're obviously in despair Gandalf, and the simplest hope is often the best: It will get better. Depression clouds our judgement, it makes us think in absolutes and causes us to create false assumptions. You're 22 and a virgin, therefore you will always be a virgin. That is incorrect. You are 22 with your entire life ahead of you. Many people are virgins for a long time, despite 'general knowledge' to the contrary. Life can and will get better. You have to believe that. Read a bit of your book each day. Give yourself small achievable goals. Don't try to set the goal of reading the whole book, make it just a page. Then the next day make it one and a half. Then two. You don't have to get a girlfriend and have sex right now. Simply make a small trip out to the supermarket and smile at a girl. It doesn't matter what age she is, your goal is just to smile. Nothing else. Do that, and you've achieved something else. I'd seriously recommend trying some CBT with a clinical psych - they can really help. And I'm glad you're on meds, they help too.
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Jan 29 2008, 12:59 AM
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Advanced Member
   
Group: Advanced Member
Posts: 277
Joined: 29-November 07
From: British Columbia, Canada
Member No.: 20,885

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Hmmmm.... so yeah, I'm feeling emotionally fine right now, but that's just because I'm loaded with a big dose of opiates. I took some extra oxycontin because my back was really bad today; exceptionally so, it kept me up all last night with spasms. So now I'm high and feelin' good, but I know it's just feel-good sensations smothering the misery. I didn't do it to feel good, I genuinly needed to get my pain under control, but that's the side effect I guess. Surprisingly because I'm so used to opiates, I can function and think just fine no matter how stoned they have me. QUOTE You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." A good possition? Maybe, but it feels like an empty one. QUOTE Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. The thing is, I don't believe these thoughts are lies; but rather logical beliefs from prolonged and consistant observation. I've had hope in the past so many times, but it never ever pays off. And last October my biggest hope of all, the girl I completely fell in love with, did everything in the world for, and thought for the first time in my life that I had a real chance with, stabbed me in the back and tossed me aside like an unwanted piece of garbage. The point is, there's nothing in my forseeable future that would result in me even meeting anybody, and I'm in too much pain to go out and be active with anyone. Most girls wouldn't want to be with some cripple, and deal with my constant pain, and look the other way with the stigma attached to painkiller addiction. I've also been working out devotedly for 2 years and still have barely any muscle. After working so hard, I finally have a decent non-flabby figure, but my actual muscle mass is puny and I'm still weaker than all my friends that don't work out at all. I quit working out 2 months ago, I can't be bothered any more. I don't have any instinct for how to attract women, I have no idea how to initiate any kind of romance from the first kiss to anything else. I'm just socially retarded. I get really stressed in social gatherings with big groups of unfamiliar people, I don't have any friends other than 3 childhood ones that live far away. Women don't want me, they never show an interest in me; because socially I'm a worthless fricking idiot. There's no reason to believe it'll get better, there's no reason for it to get better. You know I just realized I hate myself. That's not self-pittying, that's hate for the worthless piece of garbage I turned into.
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Jan 29 2008, 09:11 AM
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Senior Member
    
Group: Senior Member
Posts: 644
Joined: 5-August 04
From: USA
Member No.: 442

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Gandalf... I just wanted to let you know you are in my heart and my thoughts. I have been where you are... let me tell you though, you are still so young. There is plenty of time to learn and overcome. You *will* overcome... because it is the only thing that you can do. I've noticed one thing... the low point symbolizes something. First, in a low, you feel horrible despair, pain, lonliness, etc. Then... you start to feel *tired* of feeling this way... which can lead to two things: one is suicide(al thoughts), the other is change. In order to *stop* feeling this way, our mind naturally thinks of the most drastic way to stop it, but really, change will do the same thing. Pick out what you don't like about your life: what is one simple thing you can do to change it? Look up things that help with mood: what can you do for yourself that will naturally benefit you? Even if its something tiny, even if it doesn't seem to work. For example, getting some sunshine. Take a short walk. You don't have to see anyone, talk to anyone... just get some air. Or say hi to one person... or like Hircon said, read *one page* out of your book.
As long as you are doing something to take care of yourself, it will be easier to continue on. Even if it is small!! Do not ever judge your progress against someone elses... each little bit counts for *you*.
Take care of yourself! Try eating lots of veggies, or something else good for you!
Just hang in there!! Depression is something that we have to learn to live with... it is difficult!!! It is a struggle!!! But it is worth it, and those days when it isn't able to take you over make it all worthwhile... the little things...
Be strong, please, as strong as you can :)
--------------------
Trying to save myself, but my self keeps slipping away...
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Jan 29 2008, 03:44 PM
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Senior Member
    
Group: Senior Member
Posts: 470
Joined: 30-August 07
From: Cal-i-FOR-nee-Eye-A
Member No.: 18,623

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QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 29 2008, 01:59 AM)  Hmmmm.... so yeah, I'm feeling emotionally fine right now, but that's just because I'm loaded with a big dose of opiates. I took some extra oxycontin because my back was really bad today; exceptionally so, it kept me up all last night with spasms. So now I'm high and feelin' good, but I know it's just feel-good sensations smothering the misery. I didn't do it to feel good, I genuinly needed to get my pain under control, but that's the side effect I guess. Surprisingly because I'm so used to opiates, I can function and think just fine no matter how stoned they have me. QUOTE You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." A good possition? Maybe, but it feels like an empty one. QUOTE Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. The thing is, I don't believe these thoughts are lies; but rather logical beliefs from prolonged and consistant observation. I've had hope in the past so many times, but it never ever pays off. And last October my biggest hope of all, the girl I completely fell in love with, did everything in the world for, and thought for the first time in my life that I had a real chance with, stabbed me in the back and tossed me aside like an unwanted piece of garbage. The point is, there's nothing in my forseeable future that would result in me even meeting anybody, and I'm in too much pain to go out and be active with anyone. Most girls wouldn't want to be with some cripple, and deal with my constant pain, and look the other way with the stigma attached to painkiller addiction. I've also been working out devotedly for 2 years and still have barely any muscle. After working so hard, I finally have a decent non-flabby figure, but my actual muscle mass is puny and I'm still weaker than all my friends that don't work out at all. I quit working out 2 months ago, I can't be bothered any more. I don't have any instinct for how to attract women, I have no idea how to initiate any kind of romance from the first kiss to anything else. I'm just socially retarded. I get really stressed in social gatherings with big groups of unfamiliar people, I don't have any friends other than 3 childhood ones that live far away. Women don't want me, they never show an interest in me; because socially I'm a worthless fricking idiot. There's no reason to believe it'll get better, there's no reason for it to get better. You know I just realized I hate myself. That's not self-pittying, that's hate for the worthless piece of garbage I turned into. Firstly: I'm not going to tell you that going back and forth on suicidal feelings is either good or bad. I'm not going to do that. In a way, for you, it might be necessary to stay there until you finally reach a place where you want to leave those thoughts behind, where you get so sick of thinking them and going back to that place that you finally get mad and make a fist and declare for yourself that no matter what, YOU are worthwhile and that you alone will determine your self-worth. You and no on else. And honestly, whether it is necessary or not...as long as you continue to stay stuck in that thought mode, it will imprison you. I hope---I really do---that you finally break free of that, because this train of thought is one of the cruelest killers of all. Secondly: Examine your own logic. Examine the empirical evidence that leads you to believe that you are worthless to the opposite sex and that no woman could ever love you/want to be with you. This might be true: the pool of women truly available to you might be small...but it is present. There is something to love about everyone. Hitler, siamese twins, and serial murderers even have a pool of women who want/wanted to be with them. Your big moment might come in your avocation (computer programming) or simply examing who exactly you want, and changing up the haunts where you might go to find that special lady/ladies. They are out there...but you can't handicap yourself by searching blindly, or even worse, giving up on yourself and not trying at all. Thirdly: All you can ever be, in any instance is yourself. Fourthly: That girl who broke your heart? If you can't find the words for this situation, I'll state them for you until you can: F**k her. Seriously. Life has a funny way of visiting payback on people like that. Leave it to life to hand her that receipt. But you need to move forward from that...that's another cruel, cruel killer. Lastly: hating yourself is not a big deal. I've found that even some of the most grounded and happy people have periods of time where they loathe themselves. So that is not the problem. Choosing to stay there is. In a way, it's safe. It's comfortable. But you will never grow in that place. It is only one of many prisons we make for ourselves. Again: I hope you finally do someday break free of this dark and cyclical mode of thought. Think of it as a war. Fight back. Fight dirty if you need to, and take as many hostages as possible...but FIGHT.
--------------------
'Love is a strange emotion. When one thinks of it, a conflicting multitude of thoughts arise. Love is pitiful and marvelous, empowering and parasitic. It is hideous; it is beautiful. It is weak and strong at the same time. Love has started wars, ended wars, caused the depression and death of millions, as well as caused uncountable others to be thrown to the heights of ecstasy. So is love truly such a pure, lovely thing? I think it is a mixture of both. Just as nothing is purely good or evil, so is love.'
Anonymous
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Jan 29 2008, 08:43 PM
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Junior Member
 
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 49
Joined: 30-October 07
From: Canada
Member No.: 20,133

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Hey Gandalf,
I'll tell you my story. Make of it what you will.
When I was at my worst, I would continually get suicidal thoughts. Holding the fort against these thoughts was exhausting. One night, I got really really drunk, which, when mixed with my ADs, made me more depressed than ever before. At that point, I accepted that suicide was an option. That was actually a turning point. I felt a huge weight lift off my shoulders and a new sense of freedom. If I got suicidal thoughts, I would mentally respond, "Okay. I can always do it later. But for now I can go on a little longer." A few other people have pointed out a similar experience for themselves. Knowing that ultimately I always had that out, I was relieved. It brought me closer to acceptance of death in our lives. Death is inevitable, you can't reverse it, so while it was an option for me, doing something irreversible when you're not in the right state of mind was clearly not a good idea, logically.
Once I had accepted death, my expectations of life dropped away. If you're ready to die, then who cares if you're not doing well in school, you're out of shape, and you're not good with girls. If you're ready to die, then things can only get better. You can stop caring about living life to certain expectations. You can just start enjoying what you can out of life. You've only got one life, and you'll for sure die some time in the future, so you may as well get anything you can out of it while it lasts.
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Jan 30 2008, 04:29 PM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: 30-January 08
From: Seattle, WA USA
Member No.: 22,337

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Gandalf,
I'm sorry you're so sad. What's funny is I was reading your post and thinking to myself, "this person's thinking is so distorted." But the truth is that's how I'm thinking about my life right now so I can't really reprimand you or even guide you towards more loving thoughts when I can't even do this for myself currently. I guess all I can offer is this...
Hang in there, Joy
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Feb 14 2008, 12:49 AM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 22,142

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QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 28 2008, 03:29 PM)  QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 28 2008, 10:02 AM)  All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more. I get energy to keep going from others. My first ring of support is here. Keep posting. Listen to your responses. Let everyone here get into your heart. Let everyone love you and hold you up, and don't you ever let go of the wonderful people here. There just may be more love and acceptance and support here than anywhere else this side of heaven. You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." It is the most cleaver trap of a circle reasoning there is. Like the alcoholic. Why am I an alcoholic? Because I drink. Why do I drink? Because I am an alcoholic. So when you feel too close to self-termination, just hit the "Restore Defaults" key (and weep for your lost life if that key does not work). Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. Finally, in reference to sentence five of your last paragraph, it is not that the world does not want you; it is that you do not want you. On one level, the world wants everyone and everything upon, below, and above it. The world does not judge who or what it does not want. In reverse, the world may not care who or what is on, under, or above it. Either way, your presence in this world is 100% permissible. You have permission to be here. You belong here. Where else do you belong? In outer space? In the Crab Nebula? On Charon? No. You are a man, and you belong on earth--at least for now, but that is another topic all together. Gandalf_The_Grey, I love you. Because I finally love myself, I love you. When I see you, I see myself. That is the beauty of DF. We know each other. We are each other. We you are down, I help you up. When I am down, you help me up. We all go together into the promise. Period. Case closed. Without each other, who would put up with us. We put up with each other because all of us have been, are now, or will be in the same place--despair, suicide thinking, hopelessness, devastating depression, trapped in the dark place inside. So, please Gandalf_The_Grey, hang on. Do not give in. No matter what, restore default settings 1,000 times an hour if necessary. Love, Larry I just love what Larry's reply says so on point. We can relate to what most every posts in this forum. At times. I feel it's more therapeutic then what most group therapies can offer. We need more "Larrys" in our circle of friends. Kudos to him and others that share their insight. No_Joke
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Feb 14 2008, 02:34 AM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: 12-February 08
From: Canada
Member No.: 22,658

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There's always a point, you have to look for it. I felt as you did a couple of years ago. Then I came to the realization that there were others living painfully just like I was. From that point on I decided to devote myself to help others. I'm still pretty lonely I suppose, but I've made peace with that. This is how I get the energy to keep going. The world is a beautiful place, with the beauty often hidden behind the ordinary. Keep looking for the extraordinaries, and you'll find your muse. If all you do is think about the ordinary, then you will find no beauty in life. I want you to truly see the world. Please, just keep searching. One day you'll find yourself.
With love, D
--------------------
If you feel like you need somebody to talk to, you're welcome to add me to one of your instant messengers. I'm by no means an expert, but I'll listen to what you have to say and hopefully help you out in times of need.
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Feb 14 2008, 06:41 AM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: 14-February 08
Member No.: 22,706

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Nutritional supplements help me I think. Plus, I try to avoid caffeine and sugar. Mostly though I think it's just an inner motivation to not give up. Something inside compels me to get up and never stop trying.
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Feb 17 2008, 04:35 PM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 22,142

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QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 28 2008, 03:29 PM)  QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 28 2008, 10:02 AM)  All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more. I get energy to keep going from others. My first ring of support is here. Keep posting. Listen to your responses. Let everyone here get into your heart. Let everyone love you and hold you up, and don't you ever let go of the wonderful people here. There just may be more love and acceptance and support here than anywhere else this side of heaven. You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." It is the most cleaver trap of a circle reasoning there is. Like the alcoholic. Why am I an alcoholic? Because I drink. Why do I drink? Because I am an alcoholic. So when you feel too close to self-termination, just hit the "Restore Defaults" key (and weep for your lost life if that key does not work). Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. Finally, in reference to sentence five of your last paragraph, it is not that the world does not want you; it is that you do not want you. On one level, the world wants everyone and everything upon, below, and above it. The world does not judge who or what it does not want. In reverse, the world may not care who or what is on, under, or above it. Either way, your presence in this world is 100% permissible. You have permission to be here. You belong here. Where else do you belong? In outer space? In the Crab Nebula? On Charon? No. You are a man, and you belong on earth--at least for now, but that is another topic all together. Gandalf_The_Grey, I love you. Because I finally love myself, I love you. When I see you, I see myself. That is the beauty of DF. We know each other. We are each other. We you are down, I help you up. When I am down, you help me up. We all go together into the promise. Period. Case closed. Without each other, who would put up with us. We put up with each other because all of us have been, are now, or will be in the same place--despair, suicide thinking, hopelessness, devastating depression, trapped in the dark place inside. So, please Gandalf_The_Grey, hang on. Do not give in. No matter what, restore default settings 1,000 times an hour if necessary. Love, Larry If I can do so, I'd like to post an open letter to those that feel things will never change. That is so untrue. I've learned that friends can change. Job/relationship environments can and do change. I recently came to the understanding that a long-time friendship was one sided. When she showed her true self, it was selfish and self serving. And she had the nerve to tell me how "evil" her twin sister was. I now know that she's not far from that. I can only allow people into my smaller circle that show themselves to "belong" there. Everyone that smiles and gives good hugs, isn't necessarily your "friend". I've learned to trust my inner voice and to do what it takes, to take care of me. I've learned to graciously turn down invites when I know my body needs rest. I'm undertaking a big move to a place out of state. I know that God must be supplying me with the fortitude to go forward with this. This is the first time I've had to do this. It's not by choice, but my daughter and a few close friends are rallying me onward. A few so-called friends don't even call to see how I'm doing. But since they're operating from a place of pure selfishness, they don't have room in their hearts to care for my little needs. I'm so glad that I've come to the understanding that true friends are in your life for a reason. The false ones will fall away by default. I try not to do lot of leaning, but if I lean, I lean on God. That's what we should do. And trust Him to take care of us, better then we can ourselves. This reminds us of our limits and our shortcomings. But thank God, he will not only care for us, he'll make the impossible, possible for us. But we have to trust Him to do this. We'd be lost w/o Him. This knowledge has made me a stronger believer. I'm not perfect, but I know and trust a perfect Creator and I've learned to draw near to Him and He'll draw near to me. Remember the scripture, "knock and He'll open the door"? It's true. Try to take the focus off of what is going wrong, and refocus on what is going well. If we allow it, depression can totally distort our perception of what is going on. I hope this gives you a dose of "good cheer". Take care No_Joke
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Feb 20 2008, 10:52 PM
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Just Registered
Group: Just Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: 20-February 08
Member No.: 22,936

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QUOTE (Daisho @ Jan 29 2008, 09:43 PM)  Hey Gandalf,
I'll tell you my story. Make of it what you will.
When I was at my worst, I would continually get suicidal thoughts. Holding the fort against these thoughts was exhausting. One night, I got really really drunk, which, when mixed with my ADs, made me more depressed than ever before. At that point, I accepted that suicide was an option. That was actually a turning point. I felt a huge weight lift off my shoulders and a new sense of freedom. If I got suicidal thoughts, I would mentally respond, "Okay. I can always do it later. But for now I can go on a little longer." A few other people have pointed out a similar experience for themselves. Knowing that ultimately I always had that out, I was relieved. It brought me closer to acceptance of death in our lives. Death is inevitable, you can't reverse it, so while it was an option for me, doing something irreversible when you're not in the right state of mind was clearly not a good idea, logically.
Once I had accepted death, my expectations of life dropped away. If you're ready to die, then who cares if you're not doing well in school, you're out of shape, and you're not good with girls. If you're ready to die, then things can only get better. You can stop caring about living life to certain expectations. You can just start enjoying what you can out of life. You've only got one life, and you'll for sure die some time in the future, so you may as well get anything you can out of it while it lasts. I really agree with that! Couple of times in the past I have "accepted death" and did not really care about anything - just before I was so-close (seconds) to killing myself. And suddenly at that moment I felt wonderful! The problem was that after a while I started feeling better, so I always "relapsed" - I started caring about things and then the pain came back with a vengeance. (Please note that I just joined this forum, have never done anything like this and still feel lost in this electronic maze. At this moment I feel lost here. So forgive me if I do something "against the rules" - I'm not even sure what the rules are.) Two weeks ago I quit my meds cold turkey (the quack-doc just said OK, go away) and its been one hell of a ride since. I am not at the point where I don't care whether I live or not, so the pain is right there on the edge of unbearable and I spend a lot of time figuring out the best way of killing myself. So far my conlusion is that it should look like an accident so the relatives and the life insurance company don't get to be so self-richeously judgemental. And my kids getting the life insurance money would mean that this was not a "completely selfish" act. ;-) (flame on) That always gets me - how can anyone tell me that ending my unbearable pain the only way I know how is a "selfish" act? PLEEEEASE! Apparently THEY would prefer (or don't care) if I live in excruciating pain as long as I don't cause THEM a bit of pain by completely getting rid of my unbearable pain? THEY are the selfish ones, objecting to having to endure a bit of their own pain, which is nothing when compared to my unbearable pain that was just permanently ended! (flame off) The thing that really bugs me is that I know what I need! All I need is a hug and a shoulder to cry on. The therapists don't do that - they give you drugs. And I suspects that my girlfriend does not like me anymore because she only gives me a hug reluctantly when I beg for it. The no-sex policy does not help things either. I think that she stays with me just for the free room and board. So I have this idea (seriously). Instead of giving money to quacks and girlfriends, I am thinking of finding a hooker and paying her for hugs and a shoulder to cry on (no sex). At least there would be some honesty in that relationship. But I've never met a hooker in my life and I have no clue how to find such a person. Any suggestions on how to find someone like that? Hey, it may even be legal? Who knows, I may be starting a new service industry... ;-)
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Feb 22 2008, 01:11 AM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: 22-February 08
Member No.: 22,978

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I have kissed a lot and felt depressed anyway. Depresion is an illness.
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Apr 1 2008, 07:18 PM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 22,142

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QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 28 2008, 02:29 PM)  QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 28 2008, 10:02 AM)  All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more. I get energy to keep going from others. My first ring of support is here. Keep posting. Listen to your responses. Let everyone here get into your heart. Let everyone love you and hold you up, and don't you ever let go of the wonderful people here. There just may be more love and acceptance and support here than anywhere else this side of heaven. You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." It is the most cleaver trap of a circle reasoning there is. Like the alcoholic. Why am I an alcoholic? Because I drink. Why do I drink? Because I am an alcoholic. So when you feel too close to self-termination, just hit the "Restore Defaults" key (and weep for your lost life if that key does not work). Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. Finally, in reference to sentence five of your last paragraph, it is not that the world does not want you; it is that you do not want you. On one level, the world wants everyone and everything upon, below, and above it. The world does not judge who or what it does not want. In reverse, the world may not care who or what is on, under, or above it. Either way, your presence in this world is 100% permissible. You have permission to be here. You belong here. Where else do you belong? In outer space? In the Crab Nebula? On Charon? No. You are a man, and you belong on earth--at least for now, but that is another topic all together. Gandalf_The_Grey, I love you. Because I finally love myself, I love you. When I see you, I see myself. That is the beauty of DF. We know each other. We are each other. We you are down, I help you up. When I am down, you help me up. We all go together into the promise. Period. Case closed. Without each other, who would put up with us. We put up with each other because all of us have been, are now, or will be in the same place--despair, suicide thinking, hopelessness, devastating depression, trapped in the dark place inside. So, please Gandalf_The_Grey, hang on. Do not give in. No matter what, restore default settings 1,000 times an hour if necessary. Love, Larry
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Apr 1 2008, 08:33 PM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 22,142

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Dear Gan??? I can relate to what you're probably feeling. I have been struggling with "depression" for over 30 yrs. From the moment I could first realize consciousness, I have always struggled to be happy. If you can relate to what I'm writing about, it takes a lot for me to feel "happy". I've learned not to "struggle" with this condition. Just learn to look at what is going right. On some level, we have to be acceptive of our exitence. We will not find a cure from outside of ourselves. I'd like to say you can quote me. Meds helps, but meditation is more of what we need. It is a wordless exercise that brings serenity to the chaotic world we finds ourselves in. You can take that to the bank. QUOTE (no_joke @ Apr 1 2008, 07:18 PM)  QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 28 2008, 02:29 PM)  QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 28 2008, 10:02 AM)  All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more. I get energy to keep going from others. My first ring of support is here. Keep posting. Listen to your responses. Let everyone here get into your heart. Let everyone love you and hold you up, and don't you ever let go of the wonderful people here. There just may be more love and acceptance and support here than anywhere else this side of heaven. You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." It is the most cleaver trap of a circle reasoning there is. Like the alcoholic. Why am I an alcoholic? Because I drink. Why do I drink? Because I am an alcoholic. So when you feel too close to self-termination, just hit the "Restore Defaults" key (and weep for your lost life if that key does not work). Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. Finally, in reference to sentence five of your last paragraph, it is not that the world does not want you; it is that you do not want you. On one level, the world wants everyone and everything upon, below, and above it. The world does not judge who or what it does not want. In reverse, the world may not care who or what is on, under, or above it. Either way, your presence in this world is 100% permissible. You have permission to be here. You belong here. Where else do you belong? In outer space? In the Crab Nebula? On Charon? No. You are a man, and you belong on earth--at least for now, but that is another topic all together. Gandalf_The_Grey, I love you. Because I finally love myself, I love you. When I see you, I see myself. That is the beauty of DF. We know each other. We are each other. We you are down, I help you up. When I am down, you help me up. We all go together into the promise. Period. Case closed. Without each other, who would put up with us. We put up with each other because all of us have been, are now, or will be in the same place--despair, suicide thinking, hopelessness, devastating depression, trapped in the dark place inside. So, please Gandalf_The_Grey, hang on. Do not give in. No matter what, restore default settings 1,000 times an hour if necessary. Love, Larry
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Apr 2 2008, 08:48 AM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: 30-October 07
From: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Member No.: 20,147

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QUOTE (Daisho @ Jan 29 2008, 09:43 PM)  Hey Gandalf,
I'll tell you my story. Make of it what you will.
When I was at my worst, I would continually get suicidal thoughts. Holding the fort against these thoughts was exhausting. One night, I got really really drunk, which, when mixed with my ADs, made me more depressed than ever before. At that point, I accepted that suicide was an option. That was actually a turning point. I felt a huge weight lift off my shoulders and a new sense of freedom. If I got suicidal thoughts, I would mentally respond, "Okay. I can always do it later. But for now I can go on a little longer." A few other people have pointed out a similar experience for themselves. Knowing that ultimately I always had that out, I was relieved. It brought me closer to acceptance of death in our lives. Death is inevitable, you can't reverse it, so while it was an option for me, doing something irreversible when you're not in the right state of mind was clearly not a good idea, logically.
Once I had accepted death, my expectations of life dropped away. If you're ready to die, then who cares if you're not doing well in school, you're out of shape, and you're not good with girls. If you're ready to die, then things can only get better. You can stop caring about living life to certain expectations. You can just start enjoying what you can out of life. You've only got one life, and you'll for sure die some time in the future, so you may as well get anything you can out of it while it lasts. This is an excellent post, and exactly the way I feel right now. Everything, quite literally, is going to sh*t in a shockingly rapid manner, compounded by a nasty depression of the past two years. While, like so many others here, I have entertained thoughts of ending it all, I've taken to looking at suicide as a last token or 'get out of jail free' card that I've symbolically put in my back pocket. If I choose to 'cash it in', that's it, the end. But, I've figured that I can hold on for at least a day, a week or two, maybe more. Strangely, it's become a hidden wellspring of strength. (sorry if the above makes no sense)
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Apr 12 2008, 11:26 PM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 22,142

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I'm sorry that I can't reply to the most current post, but I felt that i should express a little gratitude. The fact that my new therapist was really willing to hear me out and officially diagnose me having "add" was unexpected but iformative at the same time. She was surprised that I had worked as long as I had, inspite of the depression, add and anxiety. I have to remind myself there are people that are dealing with a lot more. I'd like to tell other bloggers that there is hope. I've found that if I refocus my energies, the depresssion is not as consuming, nor as draining. If I can remember to do that, lol. If anyone has more advice that can help anyone of us, please share!! Take care. no_joke QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 28 2008, 02:29 PM)  QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 28 2008, 10:02 AM)  All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more. I get energy to keep going from others. My first ring of support is here. Keep posting. Listen to your responses. Let everyone here get into your heart. Let everyone love you and hold you up, and don't you ever let go of the wonderful people here. There just may be more love and acceptance and support here than anywhere else this side of heaven. You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." It is the most cleaver trap of a circle reasoning there is. Like the alcoholic. Why am I an alcoholic? Because I drink. Why do I drink? Because I am an alcoholic. So when you feel too close to self-termination, just hit the "Restore Defaults" key (and weep for your lost life if that key does not work). Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. Finally, in reference to sentence five of your last paragraph, it is not that the world does not want you; it is that you do not want you. On one level, the world wants everyone and everything upon, below, and above it. The world does not judge who or what it does not want. In reverse, the world may not care who or what is on, under, or above it. Either way, your presence in this world is 100% permissible. You have permission to be here. You belong here. Where else do you belong? In outer space? In the Crab Nebula? On Charon? No. You are a man, and you belong on earth--at least for now, but that is another topic all together. Gandalf_The_Grey, I love you. Because I finally love myself, I love you. When I see you, I see myself. That is the beauty of DF. We know each other. We are each other. We you are down, I help you up. When I am down, you help me up. We all go together into the promise. Period. Case closed. Without each other, who would put up with us. We put up with each other because all of us have been, are now, or will be in the same place--despair, suicide thinking, hopelessness, devastating depression, trapped in the dark place inside. So, please Gandalf_The_Grey, hang on. Do not give in. No matter what, restore default settings 1,000 times an hour if necessary. Love, Larry
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May 18 2008, 02:46 AM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 22,142

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QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 28 2008, 02:29 PM)  QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 28 2008, 10:02 AM)  All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more. I get energy to keep going from others. My first ring of support is here. Keep posting. Listen to your responses. Let everyone here get into your heart. Let everyone love you and hold you up, and don't you ever let go of the wonderful people here. There just may be more love and acceptance and support here than anywhere else this side of heaven. You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." It is the most cleaver trap of a circle reasoning there is. Like the alcoholic. Why am I an alcoholic? Because I drink. Why do I drink? Because I am an alcoholic. So when you feel too close to self-termination, just hit the "Restore Defaults" key (and weep for your lost life if that key does not work). Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. Finally, in reference to sentence five of your last paragraph, it is not that the world does not want you; it is that you do not want you. On one level, the world wants everyone and everything upon, below, and above it. The world does not judge who or what it does not want. In reverse, the world may not care who or what is on, under, or above it. Either way, your presence in this world is 100% permissible. You have permission to be here. You belong here. Where else do you belong? In outer space? In the Crab Nebula? On Charon? No. You are a man, and you belong on earth--at least for now, but that is another topic all together. Gandalf_The_Grey, I love you. Because I finally love myself, I love you. When I see you, I see myself. That is the beauty of DF. We know each other. We are each other. We you are down, I help you up. When I am down, you help me up. We all go together into the promise. Period. Case closed. Without each other, who would put up with us. We put up with each other because all of us have been, are now, or will be in the same place--despair, suicide thinking, hopelessness, devastating depression, trapped in the dark place inside. So, please Gandalf_The_Grey, hang on. Do not give in. No matter what, restore default settings 1,000 times an hour if necessary. Love, Larry
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May 18 2008, 02:54 AM
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Member
       
Group: Platinum Member
Posts: 12,578
Joined: 7-July 04
From: Ohio
Member No.: 28

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I love your name, No Joke. Depression is nothing to joke about! I work in the mental health field have have dealt with depression, so I think the best advice is to set a routine for yourself, like going to bed and getting up at the same time. Little things mean a lot with this illness. Also taking meds at the same time, every day works for me, plus drinking plenty of fluids. I get dry mouth as I'm on a time released med, but all the same; meds work best if you are well hydrated.
Apparently, you are feeling better. I want to ask you if you were thinking at some early point in time about taking meds. I think it serves people well to hear our struggles. Some will not get on meds to start with, which only allows time for symptoms to develop. It's not all of us want to be on meds, but taking responsibility to get to a doc and get treated seems to be difficult for most people.
Jackie
--------------------
 I have GAD. I worry about everything, lol!
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May 18 2008, 02:56 AM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 22,142

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Greetings fellow bloggers It's been a while since I could logon and try to connect with my inner-self. I've been busy constructing a quilt that I'm making for my aunt. I thought I'd surprise her with one. It does my heart good to do something for another person. I have to resist the feeling that it is "too pretty' to give away. That is pure nonsense. The only thing that is interfering with its completion is this hot weather. I believe it was around 98 degrees today. I could post about a few sad mements, but I'd rather tell others about what is going well right now. I'm reminding myself to be more in the gratitude "mode". So please look up and let the blessings of God shine on you. no_joke QUOTE (no_joke @ Apr 12 2008, 11:26 PM)  I'm sorry that I can't reply to the most current post, but I felt that i should express a little gratitude. The fact that my new therapist was really willing to hear me out and officially diagnose me having "add" was unexpected but iformative at the same time. She was surprised that I had worked as long as I had, inspite of the depression, add and anxiety. I have to remind myself there are people that are dealing with a lot more. I'd like to tell other bloggers that there is hope. I've found that if I refocus my energies, the depresssion is not as consuming, nor as draining. If I can remember to do that, lol. If anyone has more advice that can help anyone of us, please share!! Take care. no_joke QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 28 2008, 02:29 PM)  QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 28 2008, 10:02 AM)  All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more. I get energy to keep going from others. My first ring of support is here. Keep posting. Listen to your responses. Let everyone here get into your heart. Let everyone love you and hold you up, and don't you ever let go of the wonderful people here. There just may be more love and acceptance and support here than anywhere else this side of heaven. You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." It is the most cleaver trap of a circle reasoning there is. Like the alcoholic. Why am I an alcoholic? Because I drink. Why do I drink? Because I am an alcoholic. So when you feel too close to self-termination, just hit the "Restore Defaults" key (and weep for your lost life if that key does not work). Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. Finally, in reference to sentence five of your last paragraph, it is not that the world does not want you; it is that you do not want you. On one level, the world wants everyone and everything upon, below, and above it. The world does not judge who or what it does not want. In reverse, the world may not care who or what is on, under, or above it. Either way, your presence in this world is 100% permissible. You have permission to be here. You belong here. Where else do you belong? In outer space? In the Crab Nebula? On Charon? No. You are a man, and you belong on earth--at least for now, but that is another topic all together. Gandalf_The_Grey, I love you. Because I finally love myself, I love you. When I see you, I see myself. That is the beauty of DF. We know each other. We are each other. We you are down, I help you up. When I am down, you help me up. We all go together into the promise. Period. Case closed. Without each other, who would put up with us. We put up with each other because all of us have been, are now, or will be in the same place--despair, suicide thinking, hopelessness, devastating depression, trapped in the dark place inside. So, please Gandalf_The_Grey, hang on. Do not give in. No matter what, restore default settings 1,000 times an hour if necessary. Love, Larry
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May 18 2008, 03:08 AM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 22,142

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QUOTE (Jkm @ May 18 2008, 02:54 AM)  I love your name, No Joke. Depression is nothing to joke about! I work in the mental health field have have dealt with depression, so I think the best advice is to set a routine for yourself, like going to bed and getting up at the same time. Little things mean a lot with this illness. Also taking meds at the same time, every day works for me, plus drinking plenty of fluids. I get dry mouth as I'm on a time released med, but all the same; meds work best if you are well hydrated.
Apparently, you are feeling better. I want to ask you if you were thinking at some early point in time about taking meds. I think it serves people well to hear our struggles. Some will not get on meds to start with, which only allows time for symptoms to develop. It's not all of us want to be on meds, but taking responsibility to get to a doc and get treated seems to be difficult for most people.
Jackie Dear Jackie In response to your posting, I'm on meds and see my dr at least once a month. I was releived when she agreed that I needed to try another anti-dep medication. Even though I was taking it regularly, I was still feeling over-whelmed with unrelenting depression. Do you think it's possible that some forms of depression are meds resistant??? I pray this isn't the case with me. Let's see what the new meds does and hopefully I'll get good results. Take care no_joke (I wish I could correct my image's gender. I am female, not male Alas......
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May 18 2008, 03:37 AM
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Silver Member
     
Group: Silver Member
Posts: 950
Joined: 19-March 08
Member No.: 23,704

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QUOTE Do you think it's possible that some forms of depression are meds resistant??? I pray this isn't the case with me. Yes, but not totally. I have treatment-resistant depression. No SSRI's worked for me, No tri- or tetra-cyclics worked for me. Treatment-resistant depression is complex, but it STILL is about finding the right combination. It takes a bit longer, but it CAN be done. And luckily for us, there are so many of us depressives, research is forging ahead. There are two new meds in the pipeline, that are TRIPLE-reuptake inhibitors. one is due in 2009 and the other in 2011. You need to be with a confident psychiatrist who refuses to give up. The despair at each med trial failure is crushing. I have friends at the moment who are making me sign weekly "no suicide" contracts. To my amazement, the psychiatrist is still very confident and just says "we'll find it". And I HAVE had periods in Remission... I often think it’s a very good thing that breathing is the default and happens by itself, because if it was something we had to do consciously, I’d definitely be dead by now….
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May 19 2008, 02:49 AM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 22,142

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Hi all I've taken my meds, but nothing is kicking in as yet. This should not surprise me. I have this dreadful feeling that my depression is meds resistant. I will check on this the next time I see my doctor. What is stricking me as funny is the fact that her office is so far away (1 hr) and I'm afraid I don't have the means to afford the gas to see her and return home. This energy crunch is getting that serious. God knows that i can't wait for these 2 yrs to pass so that I can get a job more to my liking. If I could retire today, I would. I've been busying myself making a quilt for a favorite aunt of mine. Too bad I can't offer a visual of it (smile). Take care out there. I'm thankful for what is going right in my life. no_joke QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 28 2008, 02:29 PM)  QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 28 2008, 10:02 AM)  All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more. I get energy to keep going from others. My first ring of support is here. Keep posting. Listen to your responses. Let everyone here get into your heart. Let everyone love you and hold you up, and don't you ever let go of the wonderful people here. There just may be more love and acceptance and support here than anywhere else this side of heaven. You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." It is the most cleaver trap of a circle reasoning there is. Like the alcoholic. Why am I an alcoholic? Because I drink. Why do I drink? Because I am an alcoholic. So when you feel too close to self-termination, just hit the "Restore Defaults" key (and weep for your lost life if that key does not work). Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. Finally, in reference to sentence five of your last paragraph, it is not that the world does not want you; it is that you do not want you. On one level, the world wants everyone and everything upon, below, and above it. The world does not judge who or what it does not want. In reverse, the world may not care who or what is on, under, or above it. Either way, your presence in this world is 100% permissible. You have permission to be here. You belong here. Where else do you belong? In outer space? In the Crab Nebula? On Charon? No. You are a man, and you belong on earth--at least for now, but that is another topic all together. Gandalf_The_Grey, I love you. Because I finally love myself, I love you. When I see you, I see myself. That is the beauty of DF. We know each other. We are each other. We you are down, I help you up. When I am down, you help me up. We all go together into the promise. Period. Case closed. Without each other, who would put up with us. We put up with each other because all of us have been, are now, or will be in the same place--despair, suicide thinking, hopelessness, devastating depression, trapped in the dark place inside. So, please Gandalf_The_Grey, hang on. Do not give in. No matter what, restore default settings 1,000 times an hour if necessary. Love, Larry
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May 20 2008, 08:34 PM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 22,142

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I just want to share what challenges I have endured in the last 24 hrs. I was stopped and harrassed by law enforement officer. You would have sworn I had robbed a bank. I can't go into detail. but I'll deal with the retribution details as they fall into place. Anyone that says we're treated all the same is on another planet or they're lying!!!! All I can say is that emotionally and physically, it all took a toll on me. Rarely have I had to take such crap from the ranks of those that are supposedly "here to protect and serve" their citizens. People that break the law 24/7 got better treatment. But what is really frustrating to me is that I cannot reach this dr that I am assigned to-nor her staff. I'm about ready to talk to someone in administration about this situation. Usually I advocate we should default to gratitude. But I can't default to that at the moment. I feel like I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. Is there anyone out there that can relate????? I cannot handle another brick wall. Opposition may build character, but what does unrelenting frustration build??? If God gives me strength tomorrow, I'm going to scream my concerns to the roof tops!!! This has gone beyond ridiculious. And in my view point, no one seems to care but me. I'm not having a pitty party. I'm trying to rebound from constant neglect from this health official (dr). I'm not a happy camper at all!!! No_Joke QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 28 2008, 02:29 PM)  QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 28 2008, 10:02 AM)  All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more. I get energy to keep going from others. My first ring of support is here. Keep posting. Listen to your responses. Let everyone here get into your heart. Let everyone love you and hold you up, and don't you ever let go of the wonderful people here. There just may be more love and acceptance and support here than anywhere else this side of heaven. You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." It is the most cleaver trap of a circle reasoning there is. Like the alcoholic. Why am I an alcoholic? Because I drink. Why do I drink? Because I am an alcoholic. So when you feel too close to self-termination, just hit the "Restore Defaults" key (and weep for your lost life if that key does not work). Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. Finally, in reference to sentence five of your last paragraph, it is not that the world does not want you; it is that you do not want you. On one level, the world wants everyone and everything upon, below, and above it. The world does not judge who or what it does not want. In reverse, the world may not care who or what is on, under, or above it. Either way, your presence in this world is 100% permissible. You have permission to be here. You belong here. Where else do you belong? In outer space? In the Crab Nebula? On Charon? No. You are a man, and you belong on earth--at least for now, but that is another topic all together. Gandalf_The_Grey, I love you. Because I finally love myself, I love you. When I see you, I see myself. That is the beauty of DF. We know each other. We are each other. We you are down, I help you up. When I am down, you help me up. We all go together into the promise. Period. Case closed. Without each other, who would put up with us. We put up with each other because all of us have been, are now, or will be in the same place--despair, suicide thinking, hopelessness, devastating depression, trapped in the dark place inside. So, please Gandalf_The_Grey, hang on. Do not give in. No matter what, restore default settings 1,000 times an hour if necessary. Love, Larry
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Jun 8 2008, 12:26 PM
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Newbie

Group: Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 22,142

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QUOTE (no_joke @ May 19 2008, 02:49 AM)  Hi all I've taken my meds, but nothing is kicking in as yet. This should not surprise me. I have this dreadful feeling that my depression is meds resistant. I will check on this the next time I see my doctor. What is stricking me as funny is the fact that her office is so far away (1 hr) and I'm afraid I don't have the means to afford the gas to see her and return home. This energy crunch is getting that serious. God knows that i can't wait for these 2 yrs to pass so that I can get a job more to my liking. If I could retire today, I would. I've been busying myself making a quilt for a favorite aunt of mine. Too bad I can't offer a visual of it (smile). Take care out there. I'm thankful for what is going right in my life. no_joke Depression is like a two-edged sword. I seems to cut both ways. There are times I wish I could consciencely ignore the existence of this condition. Why can't I wake up one morning and not "feel" depressed??? I'm running out of coping mechanisms. I was just informed that my w/c board "denied" me getting any additional thrapy. I can't even get an appt with the dr that is suppose to be treating me. I'm sorry, but that rationale is plain NUTS. And to top it off, my so-called atty exhibits a terse tone when I try to contact him about my dire financial situation. If you ask me, I think I have a lot to be depressed about. I even mentioned to my niece "they shoot horses, don't they??" from a memorable line in the Jane Fonda film of the same name. It appears to take a lot for some individuals to resort to that decision. But I can honestly understand why that is the action others under stress undertake. Some view it as selfish. But I can identify with those who just want the pain to stop. Especially if the meds isn't doing it for them. I so want to look at what is going right. But the things that are going wrong have my undivided attention at the moment. no_joke QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 28 2008, 02:29 PM)  QUOTE (Gandalf_The_Grey @ Jan 28 2008, 10:02 AM)  All these years I've been struggling with depression, and these past 3 or so years I keep going back and forth on thoughts of suicide. Seems I've been getting more serious about it these last few months; albeit the effexor has helped. The thing is, I've realized that "don't do it" has just become my official possition, the default I've drilled into myself over the years.
The more I think about it, I can't actually think of any reasons why I should keep going. The physical pain is always going to be there. The loneliness is always going to be there, eating away at my soul bit by bit. I'll never know love, companionship, the feeling that somebody actually needs me or wants me on some level. Heck, the only way I'll even move out of my parents house (and I'm 22) is to fully learn my computer programming books, but I can't even get up the energy to start.
This is it; my life. Pain, alone, living in my parents basement. I could theoretically be the first human in history to die an old man and a virgin, not even knowing what a kiss feels like. I mean what's the point? Why would I want to cling to a world that doesn't want me? I can't just go forever learning to be happy with my solitude, "looking on the bright side" of aloneness. I can't. Every day the hole inside of me, made by loneliness, gets bigger and deeper.
I really can't see the point any more. I get energy to keep going from others. My first ring of support is here. Keep posting. Listen to your responses. Let everyone here get into your heart. Let everyone love you and hold you up, and don't you ever let go of the wonderful people here. There just may be more love and acceptance and support here than anywhere else this side of heaven. You have a good default position. It is simple and, therefore, difficult to argue against. It bypasses all reasoning and mental gymnastics to the contrary. When in the depths of an addictive urge or suicide thoughts, we want something simple to avoid any thinking, because thinking can be the greatest problem when faced with an urge to drink, use, or suicide. "Don't do it," short-circuits the thinking mind and leaves us with only one conclusion, that is, "Don't do it." It is the most cleaver trap of a circle reasoning there is. Like the alcoholic. Why am I an alcoholic? Because I drink. Why do I drink? Because I am an alcoholic. So when you feel too close to self-termination, just hit the "Restore Defaults" key (and weep for your lost life if that key does not work). Your second paragraph is all depression speaking. "Lies, d*mnit, all lies!" Depression's darkness does not want you to think clearly. It does not want you to have any hope. At first, I hated hearing and reading that "it does get better," by everyone here. I had to force myself to find just the smalled spark of hope I could find to hang on to that possibility. When I found no spark, I settled for having the desire to hope. If I could not find hope, at least I could find my desire for hope. Yes, I had to hope that I would find hope. It works. Do not listen to the lies. Do not even try to think your way out. Once depression's darkness has you thinking lies, it will not let you reason your way back to truth. Here is where I return to my first paragraph. Reach out to others who can take your hand, and lead you back out from the lies. Listen to others who have gone before you, others who know the way out. Surrender to the love and caring of others to lead, comfort, and support you; allow others to love you back to truth. You do not even have to believe it just yet. Simply wanting to believe it is enough to turn the universe. Finally, in reference to sentence five of your last paragraph, it is not that the world does not want you; it is that you do not want you. On one level, the world wants everyone and everything upon, below, and above it. The world does not judge who or what it does not want. In reverse, the world may not care who or what is on, under, or above it. Either way, your presence in this world is 100% permissible. You have permission to be here. You belong here. Where else do you belong? In outer space? In the Crab Nebula? On Charon? No. You are a man, and you belong on earth--at least for now, but that is another topic all together. Gandalf_The_Grey, I love you. Because I finally love myself, I love you. When I see you, I see myself. That is the beauty of DF. We know each other. We are each other. We you are down, I help you up. When I am down, you help me up. We all go together into the promise. Period. Case closed. Without each other, who would put up with us. We put up with each other because all of us have been, are now, or will be in the same place--despair, suicide thinking, hopelessness, devastating depression, trapped in the dark place inside. So, please Gandalf_The_Grey, hang on. Do not give in. No matter what, restore default settings 1,000 times an hour if necessary. Love, Larry
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