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Lindsay
post Apr 23 2006, 10:00 AM
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QUOTE
Alcohol Cravings Induced via Increased Serotonin
by Ann Blake Tracy, Director, ICFDA

There is an alarming connection between alcoholism and the various prescription drugs that increase serotonin. The most popular of those drugs are: PROZAC, ZOLOFT, PAXIL, LUVOX, SERZONE, EFFEXOR, ANAFRANIL, and the new diet pills, FEN-PHEN and REDUX. For seven years numerous reports have been made by reformed alcoholics (some for 15 years and longer) who are being "driven" to alcohol again after being prescribed one of these drugs. And many other patients who had no previous history of alcoholism have continued to report an "overwhelming compulsion" to drink while using these drugs.

(A few personal accounts: #1 A young woman, a recovering alcoholic, reported that during the eight month period she had been using Prozac she found it necessary to attend AA meetings every day in order to fight off the strong compulsions to begin drinking again. #2 In the Southeastern United States a middle aged psychologist, also a recovering alcoholic, after being prescribed Prozac, found herself needing to attend AA meetings morning, noon, and night to keep from destroying the sobriety she had achieved. #3 A young father, who was Mormon and had never before in his life used alcohol, found himself drinking Ever Clear and exhibiting bizarre as well as violent behavior, after being prescribed Prozac and Ritalin. #4 A young mother who had never used alcohol before began drinking large amounts within weeks of being prescribed Prozac and quickly found herself committed to a mental institution due to the psychotic behavior that resulted. Added to her Prozac prescription were anti-psychotic meds and electric shock treatments. She then began to experience seizures and was started on anti-seizure meds. #5 A concerned neighbor reported her friend was drinking straight Vodka on a regular basis after being prescribed Zoloft. #6 A daughter reported her father, sober for 15 years, began drinking again on Prozac. The consistant report from these patients has been an "overwhelming craving or compulsion" for alcohol.)

For some time we did not have specific medical documentation to help us understand why this was happening. Could it be that Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, etc., being mood altering substances, were removing the inhibitions that individuals had placed upon themselves to stop their additions? But beyond this mood altering effect of Prozac, etc., there seemed to be a physiological cause for this alcoholic obsession as well. There were reports of people who rarely drank before Prozac, etc., consuming excessive amounts of alcohol after starting usage of these various drugs. For example we have the case of a young newly wed in Southern Utah who was given Prozac for a hormonal imbalance. Before that time she would have two or three social drinks a year, yet soon after being prescribed Prozac she began bringing alcohol home by the case. Many similar reports followed.

Could it be that because these drugs have such a strong adverse effect upon the pancreas [Manufacturer's warnings include such side effects as hypoglycemia, diabetes and pancreatitis.]they are producing a potent disruption in the body's blood sugar balance? This would in turn cause a "craving" for alcohol as the body reaches out for a "quick fix" to raise the blood sugar level thus triggering a vicious self-perpetuating cycle as the alcohol pushes the blood sugar level even lower after the brief high it produces. This means that those suffering a tendency toward alcoholism or any other blood sugar disorder would suffer the most disastrous repercussions of Prozac, etc., (including psychosis, suicidal ideation and violence) much faster than most. Patient reports support this conclusion.

In November of 1994 Yale published a study that gave us one answer to the alcohol cravings associated with these drugs. The study demonstrated that an increase in brain levels of either of two neurotransmitters (brain hormones), serotonin or noradrenalin, produces: #1 a craving for alcohol, #2 anger, #3 anxiety. They found this to be especially true for those who have a history of alcoholism. All of the drugs listed above are designed in one way or another to increase serotonin which in turn also increases noradrenalin. Anyone who has a history of alcoholism should heed the warning contained in these reports. And anyone who has developed a problem with alcoholism while using these drugs deserves answers as to why they have experienced such an overwhelming compulsion to drink.

America already has an estimated 10 -15 million alcoholics. To increase that number with a reaction from prescription drugs which causes a compulsion to drink is a tragedy! What a sad state of affairs that drugs which are actually being promoted as a treatment for alcoholism have the potential to create alcohol craving behavior. This is not only frightening, but absurd. It is heart-rending to listen to those who have had years of sobriety destroyed almost overnight or those who have never touched alcohol before Prozac, yet began drinking compulsively due to a medication prescribed by doctors unfamiliar with this connection. By chemically inducing an overwhelming urge to drink this effect also causes patients to mix alcohol with these powerful drugs. When alcohol and drugs are combined, one can compound the effects of the other so the resulting impairment is far worse than if the two were taken separately...even small amounts, mixed with some medicines, will deaden your senses or change your perceptions which can lead to psychotic behavior, seizures, etc. Those in this situation need to be made aware that they are not alone, and that this is a common report which is now substantiated by medical documentation. They also need to understand that it is possible to very gradually withdraw from these drugs and overcome these adverse drug reactions.


SORUCE:- References for this material: Krystal JH, Webb; E, Cooney N.; et al., "Specificity of Ethanol-like Effects Elicited in Serotonergic and Noradrenergic Mechanisms," ARCHIVES OF GENERAL PSYCHIATRY, Vol. 51, Issue 11, pgs 898-911. (This is the Yale study mentioned above.); In a study conducted by Liisa Ahtee and Kalervo Eriksson (Physiology and Behavior, Vol. 8, pp. 123-126, 1972) rats which preferred alcohol had 15-20% higher concentrations of serotonin in the brain.


~Lindsay, Forum Super Administrator


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hello123
post Apr 23 2006, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 23 2006, 09:00 AM) *


SORUCE:- References for this material: Krystal JH, Webb; E, Cooney N.; et al., "Specificity of Ethanol-like Effects Elicited in Serotonergic and Noradrenergic Mechanisms," ARCHIVES OF GENERAL PSYCHIATRY, Vol. 51, Issue 11, pgs 898-911. (This is the Yale study mentioned above.); In a study conducted by Liisa Ahtee and Kalervo Eriksson (Physiology and Behavior, Vol. 8, pp. 123-126, 1972) rats which preferred alcohol had 15-20% higher concentrations of serotonin in the brain.
~Lindsay, Forum Super Administrator


I'm not sure I want to go on medicine for the treatment of depression after hearing all of these bad things. You did not list Lexapro. Does it have the same effect of causing a craving for alcohol?
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Lindsay
post Apr 23 2006, 11:06 AM
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QUOTE(hello123 @ Apr 23 2006, 11:52 AM) *
I'm not sure I want to go on medicine for the treatment of depression after hearing all of these bad things. You did not list Lexapro. Does it have the same effect of causing a craving for alcohol?



If you read the disclaimer at the top of this forum you will see:
QUOTE
The treatment of mental disorders is a personal trial and error process. Just because one person has severe headaches when they use Zoloft doesn't necessarily mean that if you take Zoloft YOU will have headaches too. Conversely, the fact that Paxil didn't work at all for one member does not mean that Paxil cannot be your success story. Your wonder drug or combination of, will be discovered totally independent of what may or may not work for another individual. If one drug was the answer for everyone, then there would be only one drug on the market. We all react differently to different medications and varying dosages. It may satisfy your curiousity to learn about other people's experiences, BUT this should never be the deciding factor as to what will work best for you. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.


This is a rare occurance, hello, as we have not had in six years of DF any posts on this one topic.
IMHO, this problem with SSRI's and alcohol involves people who are predisposed to alcoholism. Coopwink.gif


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----
"I cannot make my mark for all time...those concepts are mutually exclusive.
"Lasting effect" is a self -contradictory term. Meaning does not exist in the future, nor do I.
Nothing will have meaning, "ultimately."
Nothing will even mean tomorrow what it did today. Meaning changes with the context.
My meaningfulness is in the here and now. It is enough that I may be of value to someone today.
It is enough that I make a difference now." ~Lindsay



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bastillenz
post Sep 15 2006, 09:43 PM
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Hi,

I can only confirm from my experiences that Effexor does create an added problem for those with any prior addictions, drugs,alcohol,smoking. Up to approx 150mgs there may not be a noticeable change but above this and more so after 225mgs when appetite is increased so is any other addiction. Many smokers may have noticed this on Effexor. I'm not saying Effexor will create an alcoholic,that's just a caution for those with any prior problems. Your dr should be made aware of previous medical history.

Lexapro is possibly the safest of the SSRI's, that's when it comes to interactions with other meds and side effects. If your not an acoholic now, it won't make you one!

Any issues should be mentioned to the doctor before starting any treatment.
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The Light
post Feb 7 2008, 07:46 PM
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Having posted my personal strong belief's in Effexor, I agree that it does increase alcohol cravings and my smoking has gone up as well. On the same note, I have always liked my beer so that may play a strong part in it. I'm not a trouble maker when I'm drinking and never gone over the edge as a result of my drinking aside from being a little more talkative.


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Lupercus
post Feb 7 2008, 11:26 PM
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Not having been aware of any prior alcohol problems, I started out on citalopram several years ago and nearly immediately experienced a strong craving for and compulsion of overuse of alcohol. Not so much the wines or beers, but more so the stronger beverages like vodka, rum etc. Where before I used to enjoy the taste and social setting when having a drink or two and actually preferred wine, I suddenly needed the instant alcohol-high of distilled liqour. Nasty side-effect was that when on citalopram or lexapro, the perception of being intoxicated essentially did not occur and gave me the (utterly false) impression that I was still entirely lucid. Of course I was not and that in turn created a whole slew of other problems, not to mention the adverse effects on my liver and kidneys and God knows how many braincells.

Someone very aptly described it as follows:
One drink feels like four drinks.
Four drinks feel like four drinks.
A complete bottle feels like four drinks.
Also there would be no hangover.

After I found myself having consumed 2 liters of straight Rum in 3 days, I realised that I had a problem.
I detoxed and entered into a sobriety contract with my therapist and my therapy group, but staying 'on the wagon' was a constant struggle.
Interesting tidbit is that when I took myself off meds for a while, the cravings immediately disappeared and staying sober was absolutely no problem. (Even when around other people who would drink.)
Unfortunately my depression and resultion anxiety and anger issues returned as well and so I find myself in the uncomfortable position of trying to avoid both the frying pan as well as the fire. It seems to me that the closer to titration-level I get, the stronger the urge to imbibe to excess becomes.

Just my $0.02




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firelizardee
post Feb 8 2008, 01:40 PM
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The effects of alchohol when on meds will vary for each person.

Drinking whilst on ADs is not recommended


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beautifuldisaste...
post Feb 9 2008, 01:09 AM
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QUOTE (firelizardee @ Feb 8 2008, 01:40 PM) *
The effects of alchohol when on meds will vary for each person.

Drinking whilst on ADs is not recommended



i've always been quite the partier (not so much in recent years).
one thing i noticed that happens to me now (past five years of being on effexor) is that whenever i drink around 4 or more drinks in a night;
i black out.
this never happened to me before i started the effexor.
i could drink four drinks now;
not be drunk,
and still blackout.
it's scary.
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Lupercus
post Feb 9 2008, 09:51 AM
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QUOTE (Lindsay @ Apr 23 2006, 10:06 AM) *
QUOTE (hello123 @ Apr 23 2006, 11:52 AM) *
I'm not sure I want to go on medicine for the treatment of depression after hearing all of these bad things. You did not list Lexapro. Does it have the same effect of causing a craving for alcohol?



If you read the disclaimer at the top of this forum you will see:
QUOTE
The treatment of mental disorders is a personal trial and error process. Just because one person has severe headaches when they use Zoloft doesn't necessarily mean that if you take Zoloft YOU will have headaches too. Conversely, the fact that Paxil didn't work at all for one member does not mean that Paxil cannot be your success story. Your wonder drug or combination of, will be discovered totally independent of what may or may not work for another individual. If one drug was the answer for everyone, then there would be only one drug on the market. We all react differently to different medications and varying dosages. It may satisfy your curiousity to learn about other people's experiences, BUT this should never be the deciding factor as to what will work best for you. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.


This is a rare occurance, hello, as we have not had in six years of DF any posts on this one topic.
IMHO, this problem with SSRI's and alcohol involves people who are predisposed to alcoholism. Coopwink.gif


I agree to a certain extent Lindsay, but I really think the matter is not as simple as having inate predisposition towards alcoholism.
There are many aspects to depression and in my experience, depression seems to coincide with a predisposition towards addicted behaviors in general (hence the societal stygma that is often applied to sufferers of pathologically depressed behaviors.)
Not to say that all depressed are addicts or potential addicts, but the nature of the affliction to me seems to drive its sufferers to pursue nurture and in many cases self-nurture, resulting in self-medication. (And we all know where that can lead to, don't we?). Btw. Let's not limit ourselves to alcohol in this respect. Other substances and behaviors seem just as prevalent in this context.
In the case of ssri's (as I experienced with citalopram as well as with lexapro) the mental predisposition seems to be fortified by the metabolic impact of those same ssri's which CAN translate into increased intensity of cravings for abusable substances and erosion of inhibitions on healthy limits of such.

Again, respectfully just my $0.02


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historyteach
post Mar 9 2008, 08:38 PM
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What is the ICFDA that Ann Blake Tracy is Director of???

Peace
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Elan Vital
post Jul 24 2008, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE (Lupercus @ Feb 7 2008, 11:26 PM) *
Not having been aware of any prior alcohol problems, I started out on citalopram several years ago and nearly immediately experienced a strong craving for and compulsion of overuse of alcohol. Not so much the wines or beers, but more so the stronger beverages like vodka, rum etc. Where before I used to enjoy the taste and social setting when having a drink or two and actually preferred wine, I suddenly needed the instant alcohol-high of distilled liqour. Nasty side-effect was that when on citalopram or lexapro, the perception of being intoxicated essentially did not occur and gave me the (utterly false) impression that I was still entirely lucid. Of course I was not and that in turn created a whole slew of other problems, not to mention the adverse effects on my liver and kidneys and God knows how many braincells.

Someone very aptly described it as follows:
One drink feels like four drinks.
Four drinks feel like four drinks.
A complete bottle feels like four drinks.
Also there would be no hangover.

After I found myself having consumed 2 liters of straight Rum in 3 days, I realised that I had a problem.
I detoxed and entered into a sobriety contract with my therapist and my therapy group, but staying 'on the wagon' was a constant struggle.
Interesting tidbit is that when I took myself off meds for a while, the cravings immediately disappeared and staying sober was absolutely no problem. (Even when around other people who would drink.)
Unfortunately my depression and resultion anxiety and anger issues returned as well and so I find myself in the uncomfortable position of trying to avoid both the frying pan as well as the fire. It seems to me that the closer to titration-level I get, the stronger the urge to imbibe to excess becomes.

Just my $0.02


This sentence really struck a chord with me: "Unfortunately my depression and resultion anxiety and anger issues returned as well and so I find myself in the uncomfortable position of trying to avoid both the frying pan as well as the fire. It seems to me that the closer to titration-level I get, the stronger the urge to imbibe to excess becomes."

I had almost the exact same experience, Lupercus. Interestingly, when I went on Prozac (after weaning off of Celexa) I went an entire month without a single drink and it really wasn't that difficult. Unfortunately, the Prozac did not work near as well as the Celexa for depression (and especially anxiety) and after a year of "experimenting" with different AD's I've recently started taking Lexapro. And yes, within a week I noticed the alcohol cravings returning, although I had the same cravings with Effexor, just not as much.


QUOTE
What is the ICFDA that Ann Blake Tracy is Director of???


As for "Dr." Tracy, I would check out her wikipedia entry. Regardless of that, I think there is at least strong anecdotal evidence for a serotonin/alcohol cravings connection.
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missnocyber
post Oct 8 2008, 11:30 PM
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Look, we are on medications because we suffer from forms of depression. Most depressed people turn to booze. I have tried prozac, paxil and effexor.....
They all make me want to drink.....and oh yes, i ask my doctor...this one makes me want to drink is that normal?
Every doctor says no.
I'm starting to think that...maybe its ME!!!
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Kandy
post Nov 4 2008, 10:31 AM
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Effexor has really been a miracle drug for me as far as my depression goes, but I definitely see a difference in my drinking behavior when I'm taking it. I can drink and drink and not feel any effect from the alcohol. It's bizarre.
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greybird2003
post Nov 18 2008, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE (Kandy @ Nov 4 2008, 10:31 AM) *
Effexor has really been a miracle drug for me as far as my depression goes, but I definitely see a difference in my drinking behavior when I'm taking it. I can drink and drink and not feel any effect from the alcohol. It's bizarre.


For me Effexor has by far been the best for my depression and anxiety. I do however know drink daily where I Rarely would drink before I started Effexor. Definately thinking about finally discussing with the MD.
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stellrchef
post Nov 26 2008, 02:21 PM
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I have a question. I had been sober for about 15 years, had a couple of traumatic "life" things happen, this "kicked in" my OCD and I was put on a tricylic. Hated it so they put me on and SSRI (first Luvox then Prozac). I've been on it for approx 15 years (doses ranging from 20 mg to 60 depending). Sobriety and SSRI overlapped for about 10 years.

Then, 4 years ago, alcohol cravings returned with a vengance. I gave into it and have been battling it ever since. The psych's anwser was to put me on 60 mg of prozac and topomax......hate the topomax and it didn't really help with the cravings anyway (and, at $265 a prescription - not covered by insurance - I'm not interested in going back to it).

I've done some research about prozac, serotonin reuptake and the effects SSRI's have on dopamine levels. As an experiment I went off of Prozac for about 2 1/2 weeks (it's half life is approx 2 weeks). My alcohol cravings started to diminish and, at about the time my OCD symptoms started to reoccur, dissapeared.

I think I've found the answer to the problem.....it's the d*mn prozac! I'm not OK with being between this rock and hard place. There's got to be a way out of it....anyone tried anything that seemed to work? ranting.gif

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stellrchef
post Nov 26 2008, 02:41 PM
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QUOTE (historyteach @ Mar 9 2008, 05:38 PM) *
What is the ICFDA that Ann Blake Tracy is Director of???

Peace


Ann Blake Tracy is a controversial figure, at best. Her "degrees" are from unaccredited Universities and her specialties appear to be more religious and theological in nature as opposed to scientific.

There's nothing particularly wrong with that, but I'd take her advice with that in mind.

That said, there does seem to be scientically researched links between alcohol cravings and increased seretonin levels. Add to that, SSRIs also effect dopamine levels and, for some people, you have the makings of a relapse (as in my case).

After a 4 year battle with relapse (and this after 15 years of sobriety) with no obvious cause; experimentation with going off of Prozac and experiencing a significant decrease and subsequent dissappearance of cravings; I'm starting to believe it might be time for me to look into other forms of treatment and get off the meds.

The withdrawal symptoms for me include what seems to be an increase in adrenaline levels causing overwhelming bouts of temper.....it's not to the point of hurting people or throwing things but the physical sensations are very, very hard to surf and it takes hours for my adrenals to calm down. This is not a problem I EVER had prior to SSRIs

I seem to be one of those people this stuff is not good for. stars.gif
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jagbender
post Apr 23 2009, 03:44 PM
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New to the forum And glad I found it. Been lurking and reading. I thought I was just getting to be an alcoholic. I really do notice gravings for Alcohol. I recently started a streeful job and thought it was due to the extra stress. Very interesting

Off to read some more

Jag
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Jordyns Mommy
post May 8 2009, 01:46 PM
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I am so happy that I read this!!!!!! This happened to me two years ago when I was taking Prozac. My doctors suggestions? Attend AA! Instead of STOP TAKING THOSE MEDS! Imagine that! They looked at me like I was crazy when I suggested that perhaps it was the medication.

Thank you Thank you Thank you!
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ssphs
post May 8 2009, 06:26 PM
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I was on Prozac 10 years ago for about 10 months and always thought it made me want to drink more which I did and eventually had a big drinking problem that to this day I have to be careful of.
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deece
post May 21 2009, 11:19 AM
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Thank you so much for creating this topic, it is so comforting to me to realise that I am not alone - and that it is possible that I am not turning into an alcoholic...

I just entered "effexor alcoholic" into Google and this post came up...this is exactly what I am going through at the moment - struggling with extremely strong alcohol cravings everyday, sometimes several times an hour, even considering a drink first thing in the morning although fortunately I have never done this although the thought is there.

I have taken several different types of SSRI's over the past 15 years on and aff but three months ago, I was prescribed Lexapro for increased anxiety with depression to go along with CBT sessions. I had to discontinue the course as I had very strong side affects, nostly nausea/loss of appetite/clenching and pain in teeth etc.....I have been on Effexor for the past month and in this short space of time, I have gone back to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day which I haven't done since my late teens over 20 years ago and have also increased my alcohol consumption to very scary levels. This peaked last weekend when I stayed up all night drinking and continued until 3pm the next day before finally going to bed. This episode terrified me and I was shocked at my behaviour, I've always liked a drink but now it seems not only do I crave alcohol all the time but when I drink, I have no idea when to stop because I don't feel drunk and I have no regard for common sense or for my own safety or welfare.

At the moment, I haven't had any alcohol since then, 5 days, but this has been a conscious struggle and I'm not sure how long I can last like this. Having had a drug problem in the past, I can only describe the effects of taking Effexor as being similar to an amphetamine or MDMA tablet, where it was also the case that anyone taking these would crave alcohol and never feel drunk.

Thanks everyone again for showing me that this is not something that is happening in isolation with me and that it may be possible to go back to my doctor to change again, but to what???!!! The irony is that my panic attacks have stopped and I am not strong enough to go back to the waves of panic once more.

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ace42
post May 27 2009, 12:52 PM
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QUOTE (The Light @ Feb 8 2008, 10:46 AM) *
Having posted my personal strong belief's in Effexor, I agree that it does increase alcohol cravings and my smoking has gone up as well. On the same note, I have always liked my beer so that may play a strong part in it. I'm not a trouble maker when I'm drinking and never gone over the edge as a result of my drinking aside from being a little more talkative.

ace42 yes i have found same the150 mg but when low booze wants to make up gap
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rokinroller
post Jun 12 2009, 07:35 AM
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I am also a reformed alcoholic, and ex drug user (dope, speed & LSD) and I too have found that when my anxiety rises I crave a drink more then ever since starting on the effexor.
Thank you for starting this topic as I have a family member who is also on effexor and is battling several addictions.
(prescription opiates, valium and alcohol to start with).
Perhaps this information can help his wife to help him (he is to far gone to help himself).
Thank you


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colstar
post Oct 27 2009, 04:31 PM
Post #23


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My girlfriend has taken prozac for several years and also drank quite heavily - a bottle of wine at least every day. At times it was quite difficult to live with her and put a big strain on our relationship. When she got pregnant last year she came off prozac and stopped drinking, then 3 months after the birth of our son went to the doctors to get prozac as started to feel depressed again, then shortly after this my girlfriend began to drink heavily again. For me this forum has certainly comfounded my belief that prozac increases cravings in some people to drink, at the moment my girfriend doesnt recognise this as a problem and never did. I just hope things will get better soon.
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Michael_UK
post Nov 7 2009, 03:47 AM
Post #24


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I am so glad that I am not the only one with struggling alcohol cravings on effexor.
I have been on this medication for approximately 4 years now. I always enjoyed
drinking some beers with friends on social occasions, but over time I have started
drinking on my own.

I remember that before I started taking Effexor, I never drank alone. But the
cravings were always there, and I began to drink on a regular base.
I started worrying about my drinking habit, and now I am tappering off the
medication. Within one week I will be off that medicine.

The main thing I noticed that while on effexor, I could not have just one drink,
I craved more and more alcohol! I never had this before!

Wish you all a pleasant weekend!

Michael, London
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