In the last two weeks I’ve been experiencing some symptoms that have to do with memory that I never experienced in the 8 years I’ve lived with depression. Sometimes I notice my mistakes right away, other times it takes me 30 seconds to a minute to get it and a few rare times, I won't notice at all until someone corrects me. They occur spontaneously and unintentionally. Here is a list of what has been happening:

- I stutter and slur words together to make words that don’t exist.

- I mispronounce words and names.

- I will stop mid-sentence because my mind goes blank and I forget what I wanted to say; I call these mind blanks. When this happens I become confused and exasperated.

- I can’t remember events/activities that I did two weeks ago or a month ago, let alone six months or a year ago. Perhaps it’s because my days start bleeding into each other and there isn’t much diversity in it.

- I’m an avid reader, have read thousands of books and used to be able to keep track of what specific plots, characters, titles and authors. Nowadays, I can’t remembers books I’ve read. I don’t know who my favourite authors are or what favourite titles are. I will read a book twice and still not know I’ve read it until my sister reminds me I have.

- I will speak backwards like Yoda and will have trouble putting the sentence in true order.

- I replace words in sentences that don't make sense. For instance, I was walking in a corn maze yesterday and I said, "We are turned up" instead of "We are turned around".

Is this brain fog? I looked up the definition and I don't have all the symptoms for it. Does one need to experience all the symptoms of brain fog in order for it to be brain fog? I usually don’t have good coordination walking around the house and will bump into things or trip but I have been fine the last few weeks. My concentration and attention span are good as I’m able to watch television for a few hours or read a book. I’m able to make decisions and focus. The only times I can’t think clearly is when I spontaneously start saying things wrong.

I have large periods of blanks in my memory during my early 20’s when I was deeply entangled in my anorexia. The brain doesn’t function properly if one starves long enough so I understand why I wouldn’t remember these times, however, I have recovered from the eating disorder in the last two years and don’t understand why I still have large blanks. In fact, I don’t recall the first six years of my life at all and I only have a handful of memories of me between the ages of 7 and 12. I have roughly 25-30 memories of the teenage years (13-19) and most of them are unpleasant.

I know that as you get older, you start forgetting details of your past but does this occur in a person as young as I am—23? Blood results back in April showed I was anemic and this isn’t anything new as I have been on and off for many years. I am aware as a vegetarian that I’m don't get enough vitamins.

Questions: Is the list of symptoms above normal for someone who is severely depressed and lacks iron & other nutritional deficiencies? Do you experience any of these? Should I see a doctor about these symptoms?

Hi thecoldone,
YES, see a doctor about these symptoms as soon as possible. These are not typical symptoms of depression, at least not to the degree that you are having. And you are going to have to be MUCH older before you start forgetting details. You are not even close enough to that. I'll bet that being anemic does play some role in this, but again, not to the degree you have. Please do make an appt for your doc, before you forget! (Just a little joke there, to lighten things up.)

Please come back and let us know how this turns out for you. I will be very curious to know.
AT

Thank you for the response, AT. I talked to my older sister about it and she pretty much dismissed it, said it was a phase and to get back to her in two months. I take my sister's opinion very seriously and I feel like a stupid hypochondriac after she presented some logical explanation to these symptoms. Perhaps I'll get a doctor just to take care of my physical ailments but I don't think I'll talk to him about this unless it persists for a while.

TheColdOne,

Hi there an welcome to the DF.

From what I read here, I can say that I've had similar troubles, some very recently. Ok, heres my little two cents. Obviously a problem like this is something that has many things working at the same time to put it in effect. I don't know all of them, but I can see three things for you that are contributing:

1. Well, your depression is the first obvious factor. Brain Fog is a common aspect of depression, no doubt. (I suffer from it myself.) The depression is kinda like the foundation for your brain fog. I agree with Always Trying though, typical depression shouldn't manifest such a potent brain fog.

2. Your anemia I'm sure is also working to boost this brain fog. Hypoxia (lack of oxygen) in your organs, especially your brain, could really be doing a number on your cognitive functions. Then take into consideration that you have depression going- well you get the point.

3. You seem like an articulate individual. Being well read means you have an abundance of information swirling around in that noggin of yours. All the words you have learned, and all those stories and anecdotes- your brain is constantly sifting and processing these things, and when you go to pull out words to form your sentences, your brain is having trouble sorting through the sea of words. If you are a highly intelligent individual, the effects of a brain fog will be more noticeably thats for sure. A computer is a great analogy of how our brain functions. If the computer has a 2Ghz processor (its brain power), then the more information it has to sift through and process, the slower and more bumbling it will go about this task. If you up the processing power, then it churns through the data like a breeze, sorting and pulling up the right information at the right time. Maybe you need something to help stimulate your brain? I surmise that all that information you feel like you've lost is still in your brain, its just buried beneath fragments of information which your brain hasn't organized. Maybe you need to defrag?

Anyways, giving attention to all the possible causalities will help you to best treat this. Seeing a doctor definitely is the obvious first step, but also doing your own research can really give you the best sense of good direction. I'm not insinuating anything but have you ever looked into examining yourself for symptoms of ADHD or ADD? As is often the case with adults, these disorders largely go unrecognized because of the stigma surrounding them. Try looking over in the ADHD section in the DF and testing yourself against some of the identifying factors there. A common misconception with ADHD is that an individual has to be hyper in order to have it- not so. The reason I mention all this is because I discovered how bad my brain fog really was when I contrasted the old me to the new me under treatment (adderall xr) for ADHD (I'm not hyper either but have all the other symptoms pretty much). The difference was amazing and since I've already talked so much here I wont bother getting into it- suffice to say that many things I once thought lost, were returned.

And real quick, I will also mention natural supplements. The obvious ones would be ginko bilobo. But omega 3's (commonly in fish oil pills) are scientifically proven to aid in smoother brain flow (which also helps depression). Vitamin B's are good too; they increase the bodies ability to absorb nutrients from food- the implications are higher energy, and more nutrients to your organs. Ok, well I'm done blabbing now, lol- I hope you find the help you need and that your brain will be up and running at maximum power in no time!

best regards,
~Dragsum

Your symptoms plague me daily, and I'm even younger - 21. My GP says its depression, but he attributes everything to depression. All he seems to do is send me for blood tests...hasn't even checked my serotonin levels.

All I can manage to muster in terms of oral communication these days is either a flat "yes" or "no" response. Sometimes a "really?", but nothing creative and small talk is impossible. Its like my brain doesnt have enough energy - that its fatigued. I've been told time and time again its stress...but the stress only began over the symptoms.

One doesn't have to experience all the symptoms of brainfog for it to be brainfog, just some. If you have difficulty remembering what you had for breakfast yesterday, what you did this day last week, forgetting the topic of conversation while speaking to someone or just general concentration and memory issues then its certainly brainfog. There's usually an underlying issue for the brainfog though, its a symptom of something else.

I've recently been lead to believe this could be due to either a severe nutritional deficiency or a sleeping disorder. Since every blood test I ever take comes back "fine" and the doctors always say I'm extraordinarily healthy, I'm leaning towards a sleeping disorder - namely apnea. How are your energy levels? The symptoms you describe perfectly match the psychological impact of untreated sleep apnea, so perhaps you might consider a sleep study to rule it out, that's what I'm doing.

Dragsum,

I like at your computer/brain analogy. That's a good one! How do you suppose I "defrag"?

I actually try to avoid doing too much research on disorders because I start thinking I have some horrible disease like a brain tumor. *sighs* Your theory that the information is still buried there and just difficult to access gives me hope. I think my plan (I enjoy making plans and lists) is to eat healthier, take iron pills, vitamin B pills and omega 3 pills. I should see a doctor because I haven't in 4 months.

By the way, I took an online test and I scored a total of 64. It said: "You appear to be suffering from a moderate amount of attention and concentration difficulties according to your responses to this self-report questionnaire." I don't know if many of my responses are due to the depression.

I'm reading on a daily basis, take photographs, cook and bake, write on a paper and online journal, write to penpals, hang out on anti-Twilight forums and watch the Discovery channel & take notes for the urban fantasy novel I'm working on right now. I also work once a week for a few hours and will start swimming lessons in late September. Is that enough stimulation? Should I do more?

------------------------------------

TheMelodyofRain,

First of all, beautiful username. Second, thank you for responding.

They are actually able to check serotonin levels? I didn't know that! Is that a special test?

I've heard these two phrases a lot---"it's just the depression" and "it's just stress". I know stress and depression can cause a heck of a lot of things but it's strange that you're not showing up as anemic or deficient in nutrition. I sleep a lot, around 10-12 hours, and still don't feel rested and blame that on the anemia. Until I get my iron levels up, I'll assume it's nutritional deficiency for me. Thanks for letting me know about sleep apnea, though.

Oh and please let me know how your sleep study turns out! I'm interested in the results. Take care!

This post has been edited by TheColdOne: Aug 25 2008, 05:42 PM

I often experience all that brain fog that you are describing, but not to the degree that you describe.
Heck, sometimes I get something like an out-loud dyslexia when I can't understand what people are saying to me because it almost sounds like some foreign language.
But I agree with the other folks here, if you suspect that something isn't normal, you should DEFINITELY ask a doctor about it. Though it may be surprising to hear if it really is just an abnormal symptom of depression. Like, I was having severe hallucinations and I found out that it had to do with my depression.
So while you should see a doctor, don't always fear the worse. :)

Wow. That's intense.

The hallucinations---psychotic depression, right? I think I saw that on wikipedia. That sounds scary.

D***, sounds like I'm picking up my parents fatalistic attitude. I should be more positive and incidentally, realistic. I'll work on that. Thanks Yakshini!

Back at cha here TheColdOne,

I don't mean to be crass or blunt here, but unless your sister has "M.D." after her name, then in my opinion, you shouldn't put a lot into what she says. Maybe she does have this. But is she talking to you in your face? Is she able to see how you react and respond to the conversation? Everyone knows the body language train. I would hardly call what you are experiencing as a phase. If it is, it certainly isn't a normal phase! For her to dismiss all you are feeling is not doing you any good. The bottom line is what YOU feel and YOU are who you are living with.

And, there is nothing you said that can be related to being a hypochondriac unless you have done some serious research in order to concoct these issues you are having. If she was able to give you some logical explanations for this, then that is good. But sometimes to have the input of a 3rd party, someone who is not close to you, can be extremely helpful. Your sister has a lifetime of knowing you, this may or may not color her perspectives of you. When you see a doctor, they have no predisposed thoughts about you. They focus on what you present them with.

I really think that you are doing yourself a great disservice to not see a psychiatrist. And, for you to withhold any part of what is truly going on, is not fair to you. The doctor can only work with what he is told. If you don't tell all, then he may not be able to come up with a diagnosis at all, or at the least, he'll come up with a wrong one. You can only expect him to be as good as what you tell him. So if you aren't honest, what is the sense in going? Some of the things you said could be based in a physiological disorder and the others could be rooted in depression. But a psychiatrist is a medical doctor. He is able to sift through all you say and determine what is what. Allow him to do his job, he has many years of education behind him that led him to his expertise.

My last thing is, why would you want to take any risks at all with your health, whether it is mental or physical? The one can be affecting the other. The point is that there is so much 'we' don't know, this is why you go to the professionals and let them do what they are best at. Again, at the least, getting a 3rd opinion can only help. If he confirms all that your sister told you, then you can really rest easy. But if he doesn't, wouldn't you want to know? I just don't recommend you doing nothing, as so much could be happening right now and at a rate that you don't know! Some of this could've been coming on for awhile, and then triggered something else, and on and on.

As to how to defrag, you do the same thing that you would with your pc. You have to let go of some of your thoughts. Sometimes people need to learn how to clean house upstairs, so to speak. There are thoughts that run through that are okay to think, and fine to acknowledge, but not needed for you to act on or put any focus time into. These may be thoughts you can let go of, delete them, forget about them, whatever. Or you may just want to hang onto them. Then you put them in a closet in your mind, your filing system. The folder of misc thoughts that do not need action. This is defragmenting your brain. As you know, the more of this you can do, the more space is freed up, the better the opportunity is for new thoughts to come to you that you presently can't see as you have soooo much going on in your head. It's like allowing your head to be a slug, so it can have a day off and not be required to work so hard, day in and day out. Dragsum's words of your info probably still being in there is absolutely true! It is just so buried because your house is cluttered. As you said, you don't like doing too much research & for very good reasons. That is a good idea. BUT, maybe you can do research without soaking it all in. Like skimming an article and if you realize you are saying, "This is ME! They wrote this about me!" then this is the one you read and pay attention to. But with the rest, you need to know that you are not going to have every single thing you read, and if it isn't really hitting home, FORGET ABOUT IT! Don't waste any brain space on it.

As to your stimulation, you exhausted me just in reading it! Nothing of what you said screams too much stress to me. These are like to do and want to do things, not have to do's. But the very first thought that entered my mind is that you are so intentionally absorbing yourself, it's as if you are purposely distracting your thoughts so as to not think at all. No wonder you can't remember things! You are overloading your brain. And you are putting more stuff in there when you already know that you don't have room enough for what is in there now, and you want to put more in? I think not. If you can and are willing, maybe you would like to re-examine all you are doing and see if maybe there are a few mind benders that don't need to be done now. I think the swimming is excellent, but how much of what you are doing involves interaction with other people in your face? When two people engage in conversation face to face, it requires one to listen and one to talk, with a focused talk. If you are listening, really listening, then you aren't thinking of yourself, which allows your brain to let go of some of the tiny inconsequential stuff. When you are doing things online, whether it is a forum or one on one, you are still able to focus on yourself primarily. So you are pretty much talking to yourself. Even with writing. I am not a writer, (despite what you may be thinking about how wordy I am!) but I would guess that depending on what you are writing about, either you are really taxing your brain for new thoughts, or you are reflecting yourself in your writings which brings you right back to focusing on yourself. One idea feeds another and on so it goes. No matter how you look at this, you are not giving your brain any down time. Which every brain needs, the vacations in life or the play time or whatever.

Taking notes from the Discovery channel for purpose of your novel is absolutely packing much more heavy thought stimulation in there. You are almost to the point where your brain fog is going to turn to brain shutdown. When it has absolutely no room to process thoughts, and no more rooms to put those thoughts away in, you get the blue screen of death.

Please give this some thought, as in, just notice what your gut reaction is. All I have said here, and I'll bet that the others are the same, are responding on our gut reaction of what we are reading. I'm not sitting here giving you hours of forethought so I can be sure to say the right thing. I figure the fact that all of this is only my opinion, allows you to filter out what doesn't resonate with you. PLEASE do go see a doctor, asap! He can guide you as to what the helpful things are that you do, as well as many other things. Please see a doctor sooner than later, and tell the truth or don't waste your time and his.

Meaning only to care about you,
AT

AT,

No, my sister isn't an M.D. I see what you're saying. I will go to a doctor soon but I haven't decided what I'll say. I don't want to look and sound like a fool. I don't know how many times over the years I've gone to doctors, they've told me I'm fine and it later turned out to be something simple---eat more of this, take this pill, exercise more, have x many chiropractic appointments etc. They still don't know why I have stabbing eye pain. The entire process where I'm not believed is horrible, it makes me feel worthless and like I am wasting the doctor's time. I need to think about it some more.

I really want to return to therapy, I really do, I just can't afford it. I have access to general counselors at a free counseling center but I feel overwhelming guilty when I can only donate $5/session. I tell myself to get over it repeatedly and the guilt remains and along comes hate---not of me but my situation, my poverty. It makes me not want to go at all.

Wow, you think I'm doing too much? That's funny, because I thought I was being a bum! If anything, I'm having too much down time. I don't know about this skimming research thing. It's hard for me to not think my symptoms are a bit of everything. That's gonna take work. Well, I write things down from TV because I don't want to think about it. I have it on paper and get back to it when I want to. Perhaps I should schedule my time better, leave certain days for photography, certain days for writing, others for reading etc. then I won't be doing all these things all at once in the same day. The swimming lessons are supposed to be 5-10 people a class and I think there's going to be more swimming than interacting. When I'm writing my novel, it's not about me, it's about fantasy. My gut reaction to the too much brain stimulation is---huh, what, how? I don't get it.

AT,

I've slept on what you said. I've now changed my mind in regards to doctors and psychiatrists. I realize my previous post has a lot of excuses and I'm not one to a) quit easily and b) be held back by fear. I work in healthcare and I found out there is a program available for employees. I'm looking into it. And I'm now in the process of finding a new doctor.

Thanks for your input.

Hip Hip Hooray!!!!
I am so glad to hear this part of you sneak out! I KNEW you were a great guy!

Of course I have to comment about your previous message, I just wouldn't be me if I didn't run my mouth.

While I can completely relate to your doctor hesitations based on the inuendo from other docs, and by the way, that aggravates me to death! I hate that! But, that in itself COULD be symptomatic of a mental disorder going on. I'm serious about that. I could be way off base here too, but I could be right on. All of the experiences you mentioned are related to physical issues, not physical issues that are located in the brain. Many physical issues are rooted
in the brains interpretation. WHile I am just like you with feeling like a jerk for having gone to the doctor, I do remind myself that I AM the one who is living with the whatever. What you are feeling is very real or you wouldn't be there to begin with.
NEVER should you be made to feel like you are wasting a doctors time. More correctly, they are wasting your time. As if you didn't feel bad enough, which caused you to seek them out, they make you feel worse when you leave than you did when you came! BUT, that is their problem! Not yours! Take relief that there isn't some terrible thing going on. You know, the majority of people doctors see are like you. The percentage of ill people is very low compared with the number that aren't. It's just that when you are at the doctors, so are all of them! Please don't make your anxieties worse by sucking into those thoughts.

As to not affording therapy, the reasons you gave are exactly why you DO need the therapy! To feel bad that you can't afford more is understandable. But to carry it to the degree you do, isn't understandable. The reason those places exist is to serve people like you! Not everyone can afford the cost of medical care, so you are in good company. Your mental health is far more important than any amount of money. It is!

If you are a bum, then there aren't words to describe me! I'm never opening my door again!
When you are doing your research, before you start, write down every symptom you have and how you feel when this happens or that, whatever, and don't stop until you have spilled everything. Then think about how many things you could have wrong based on your issues. LOTS. This is why there are doctors. Again, it's what we don't know that makes all the difference! Web sites can't begin to treat an ailment from a person they can't see, or a level of intelligence isn't known, or is unable to determine the severity of your problem. Many people minimize their feelings when someone else couldn't be able to tolerate that at all. Others will way overstate the issues because that is how they feel them to be. But a website can't address every single variable, and in medicine, there are tons. The doctors know everything the websites say and a whole lot more. They have years of experience and years of schooling to learn a whole lot more about any one thing you are reading in a book or on a site. So when you are looking at all the possible things you see that you could have, look closer. Look at that sheet you wrote down your issues. Does the ailment you are reading have every single one of yours? Of are there some that are not on your list? If you stumbled upon the one that was a 100% match, you still could be way off base! In real honesty, is serves you and the medical profession no good by reading things that we lack the education to properly interpret. Do yourself a favor and don't read it.
You sound way more disciplined than I ever could be. So don't go analyzing how you are spending your time! That is also a waste of time and is not what life is about. And learning to feel good about who you are and how you are that matters, nothing else. This is why you need to see someone. And trust me, speaking to a psychiatrist doens't even compare with seeing a general practitioner. Let the doctor decide if you're a fool or not. I'll bet you one hundred dollars he won't! His job is to help you understand why you feel the way you do. It isn't to judge your character. He also is able to discern what part of all you will say is within your control or not. You may behave the way you do because of something chemically based that you have no idea of.
I learned from my psych doc a long time ago, that my extreme sensitivity to everything, physical and mental, was rooted in my disorder. It's part of the package. So when a doctor looks at me pathetically, I no longer have any trouble saying right out that I do have extreme sensitivity and if they would like to hear about the many ways this shows itself, I'll be glad to tell them. Every person's level of tolerance is different, but it doesn't make the problem any less real.
Go back to your 1st post and read it again. How much longer do you want to go on feeling that way? Who cares what someoen else says or thinks, they aren't living with it.
So when you DO see your doctor and you are taking all the time you need to tell him EVERYTHING, that is the 1st day of getting control of your life back.
(Don't make me have to seek you out and have to smack you!)