I'm really having a rough night and I really did better for about a week - up to tonight. I just keep thinking if I could somehow erase myself from existence - that my kids didn't know about me and my husband found someone else - everything would just be better. I don't think about killing myself - that would be terrible for them - I just want to not be at all.

The neighbors are all out in the cul-de-sac laughing and having a game of kickball. My kids are out there too. But I've been out and tried to chat with these people before and I might as well have been wallpaper. How can they all be the best of friends and be pretty good people and hate me? I'm really not a freak - I'm really not. And I know you might be thinking well if they are okay with my kids they must be fine with me too. It's just that my kids are happy and confident and they join in regardless. I'm worried when I get older they will hate me for making them outsiders from the cool people.

I emailed this friend of mine - *Jane and I came to the realization that neither she nor my other two mom friends in town ever initiate contact. It's always me. And they are WONDERFUL people - it isn't them. I just wonder if they hide out wondering if I'm going to SURPRISE bug them again. And they slip on occasion and say things like - well when we had the girls over - not my daughter - I guess I should get smart and get it. I tried to invite one of the daughters over a week ago and they didn't answer until late even though she mentioned being at home that day.

I don't have any other friends - I needed to come here. MY husband is wonderful, but I can't do this to him anymore. Even my brother, who I love so much, hasn't been as communicative as usual.

But you know what - I probably am that obnoxious. I need my own island or planet. I feel the worst about the fact that VERY kind people have given me advice and here I am again just pulling everyone else down. I need to shut up and do something - I know. I apologize for just playing the same tired tune over and over doing nothing. I just felt so alone and selfish and desperately want someone to talk to me.

Hi Nicky,

No need to apologize here. What you are going through is rough, and it's good that you are hear talking to us.

Ok I'm going to ask a question here. Do your neighbors and friends know about what you are going through. I have found that if people don't know that you are depressed they tend to treat you as an outsider sometimes. Not because they don't like you or anything like that.

I know some of my friends looked at me as an outsider because I was always the gloomy person until I told them what was going on. Most of them were more understanding once they started to understand what I was going through.

If you haven't told anyone, perhaps it might help. It takes a lot fo courage to tell anyone that you are depressed but it might be a thought.

Dante~

First of all thanks for being there, Dante.

I was not depressed when all this started. I have lived in my current house for 7 years. These people who live here have never really liked me and I've only been fighting the depression battle for 6 months. So, no, it's not the depression - it's straight up me - apparently very obnoxious me. It just didn't used to bother me as much that people didn't like me. I would NEVER tell them something so embarrassing - they would use it against me and have more stuff to use against the freak.

My other friends quit being nice to me before the depression too. I try to be very careful not to smother or be needy either. I always keep a light happy tone.

The thing I'm scared of is - what if I'm not depressed? What if I'm just pathetic and selfish and whiny and want attention. I guess in a way I kind of do or I wouldn't be drawing so much attention to myself here.

This post has been edited by NickyLynn: Aug 12 2008, 09:15 PM

Hi again Nicky,

Your very welcome.

You are who you are. That dosen't make you pathetic. The one thing I have learned in this world is that some people accept you for who you are, and some people won't even accept you for who you are.

The thing that can be so troubling is finding those people who accept you for who you are. You are your own person, there is no need to change to satisfy the opnions of others.

I know it is hard, but there are people who will accept you for who you are.

Please hang in there, and remember tomorrow the sun will shine that much brighter.

Dante~

Nicky people randomly exclude others like that all the TIME and they are not "pretty good people". A lot of perfectly normal adults are narrowminded pathetic little no-life bullies. Maybe you rub a few of them the wrong way, maybe you threaten them, what's sure is that people like that love their drama and want to be part of it.
Did you as a 10 year old girl go around with the other girls in your class and think up things to do, such as No One Talks To Anna For One Day? I did. Why? I guess I enjoyed it on some level. That's them.
Or, maybe they are just unusually socially awkward with people they don't know?
Probably both.

Your kids and your husband love YOU, they do not love or care about those people. I hope you can come to some understanding about what is going on - one that doesn't involve making yourself into a freak - but I for one will not blame you if you insist on moving. To hear you take this all out on yourself is just horrifying. Your family would be devastated if they knew how you think about yourself right now!

Whatever you're perceived to be by your neighbors, you come across as such an adorable person on here. And someone who would probably never even give these people a second thought if it wasn't for your depression!

Edit after reading your reply to Dante - stop, stop, stop! You're not drawing "so much attention" to yourself. You sound like me when I'm at my socially anxious worst, it's social anxiety talking. Although when it it's like you describe, I want to call it social shame, it feels more like shame over who I think I am than anxiety in front of strangers.
Either way it's not an accurate self image, it's a compounding of all negative feedback you've ever received, true or not true, with a depressive mind.

This post has been edited by zmarie: Aug 12 2008, 09:43 PM

Thank you so very much for your kind words. I don't know that I've felt this low in my life. I feel like I'm drifting in fear and shame and terror without a raft. When I was a child, I was not perfect by any stretch, but I desperately tried to be the champion of the unliked and unwanted. I was not very well liked up to about fifth grade when sports helped me to fit in. I've never been overwhelmingly popular, but always fit in relatively well in high school and people respected me - or at least I thought they did.

Fast forward to now. I've gone to a place where my neighbors actually don't wave when I wave to them. My husband and I try to be friendly to people - are active in the commnunity, coaching kids soccer and attending things with our kids. I think the best years of my life are over. I can't be shunned in this way - it's killing me.

It's funny - I would read someone's post like mine and say - what could be so bad. And yet I'm dying of sadness and social isolation.

Thank you again so much. I wish I could take all the kind words people have told me on this forum and actually use them to save me.

Please hang in there Nicky. You have all of our support here.

Dante~

But you know it's them not you... you know it. If you had one of your old friends around, if you were still good friends, you would probably be laughing at them. Don't forget that just because you don't have it right now.
I'm so sorry you've been losing your real friends, but that happens too, to everyone. But you meet new people you click with. Just not, maybe, on your front lawn right now.

What's the biggest obstacle in moving? (I'm sorry but that's all i can think of, it's the first thing I'd do! But having kids and all there...)
This is exactly the kind of social isolation I always knew I would fall victim to if I lived in the suburbs, why I'm terrified to leave the city.

Thank you Dante and Thank you so much zmarie. You have no idea how much your positive thoughts help. I've stopped crying now - hooray!!!!

Moving feels more like the answer every day to me. I've always fit in better in bigger towns and cities than smaller. The problem is a)I have a 7-year old house we built that I would think it a shame to move but more importantly, b) my son, who has very slightly Aspergerish tendencies has friends and is accepted here and c) we live in a town where my kids can ride the bus to their grandparents school (they are teachers) and be loved and cared for and d) a daughter with lots of friends here. That still being the case it makes me do a big intake of breath to imagine the happiness of leaving here. It's my primary depression trigger.

You would think I'd be a little freaking tougher with a brother and parents and husband and kids who love me. I don't have a story of tragedy which makes all of this all the more ridiculous. I also feel fairly competent at my job. Boo hoo hoo right? But coming home to this every night gets harder each passing day, week and month.

I have dealt with anxiety my entire life, but it has never been this swirling darkness that it is now. The first sign of problems BOOM - I'm picturing ways to hurt myself. Honestly it is getting a bit old.

Nicky-
Don't get so down on yourself... Even if things seem to be in place and everything is going right with your life, people can still be unhappy... Change that... LOTS of people can still be unhappy... Unfortunately, due to how something is wired in us and conceptions we have about ourselves we have to fight that much harder to lead happy, "normal" lives.

I know where you're coming from because I've been really struggling in a slump for a bit now and can't really get out of it. People tell me all te time that I shouldn't be so depressed because I have a family who loves me and friends who care about me. Fact is, is that I am unhappy living in the house with my parents, but financially, I don't have enough money to move out of the house... You'd think with a support system and nothing horribly wrong that I would be great, but I'm not...

And we are all on the boards to try and help people and listen to them. Even if you think you're singing the same "sad old tune", we want to try and help and sometimes just even talking about your feelings helps to not be as anxious or depressed.

Hopefully things will get better for you soon, but just keep trying and making the effort.

Having been a weird kid myself, I can't argue with that one. I wish I could, but if there is a chance that you are able to get better and keep him in the same social crowd, go for it.
But I hope you realize that that is a huge thing you are doing for him. Taking yourself out of your natural environment (cities), planting yourself amongst people who don't seem to get or even muster the ability to be polite to you (God knows what their problem is, don't even want to think about it), facing social exclusion which is one the most painful human experiences there is, all to protect your kids. That's a good, good mother. I don't know that I'd be able to make that choice if I were you. He is so much more lucky to have you than he will ever know, both your kids are, so will you PLEASE stop making it out like you're the problem here?
The bullies are always the problem. You want your kids to know that don't you?

And if time goes by and it just doesn't get better, you can move, you should move. This is not worth feeling suicidal over. Your son doesn't want to grow up with a chronically depressed, deeply unhappy mother, either, it's not fair to you or them, and there are a lot of steps you can take to make it easier on him.

If I were a very strong, brave person I would tell you to call them out when they are rude. Asking "rhetorical questions", as I read about in one of my self-help books, when you feel that you're being criticized but not outright and it's just a creepy feeling getting to you. Like "hi there Mrs. So&So, did you see me before when I waved to you? I was wondering, if you did see me, if there was a reason you didn't wave back? Is there something you'd like to tell me?" Etc.
Stating the obvious, but in a way so that if they have something to say, they better say it, and if not, you've taken away their power to just get away with little bullying gestures like that.
But I've never actually had the courage to do that myself...

Incidentally, can you move from this particular cul-de-sac, keep your kids in the same school, and within playing distance from the other kids? Would it help?

Well it's not so much that cities are even my natural environment - it's just that most of my friends are from bigger locations than mine, so I assume I would get along better there. Friends from college and work mostly (I commute).

WOW I wish I could do that. Say what you suggested. In an OCD way I've planned out what I would say to them in a confrontation over and over and over - usually in the shower. "Why exactly did you not invite my daughter to your party? Why do you turn the other way when I drive past your house? Why do you laugh and joke openly with others and not speak to me? What terrible things are you thinking about me that act like I'm the town leper?"

I've been trying to figure out - is it THIS cul-de-sac? Or THIS town? Or... me. Would I move and just start the whole thing all over again? I don't want to take any drastic action until I can pinpoint the best course of action.

I DON'T THINK my kids know I'm depressed. I make sure my face is clean and dry when I talk to them and feign a sadness over sad news stories, sad movies, or sad information from a friend a lot. My husband used to try to be with me to help me, but now I think he kind of hides out downstairs to cope. I don't blame him at all. He tries really hard.

My children are too good to be true. My son even with his issues is smart, has a beautiful heart, and is pretty confident. My daughter is a sweet, spunky, and confident little girl who is very socially smart and liked by friends and teachers. I would do anything for them - they are why I'm still here. And you are such a sweetheart for saying I'm a good mom. I sure try to be.

Hi NickyLynn,

Just wanted to say, neighbors can be nasty business. It can be the worst, and it can be the best. We moved from our first home due to some wicked people we had the bad fortune to buy next to.

If you have anything "different" about you, some types of people seize on that. It can be anything whatsoever. My suspicion is they are jealous of you for some reason, or feel in some way that you present yourself as different, or "better." Which I'm SURE you don't, but that's their impression, and once they get started on it -- well your breath is maybe wasted on them as a group, but maybe one or two could be spoken to on a one-on-one basis. I wouldn't confront, I would just try to spend time with them or invite them to something. Keep trying, is all I'm saying.

All I know is what happened to us... vilified as "evil" children-hating people, one bad neighbor and her family infected the whole neighborhood. I don't necessarily think they believed everything she was saying (especially the men) but it was easier to just go with her than to cross her and be on her enemy list, because believe me, she could make a person's life hell. And I will tell you 100% we were not deserving of this, but as I said, a perceived "difference" was all she needed, combined with our reserved nature and unwillingness to kiss her butt, and off she went. Proof positive we are "good" neighbors is that we are very happy in our new neighborhood and everyone here seems to feel happy with us. Today in fact I had lunch with my neighbor and her friends and daughter. So I hear you when you say, you keep thinking, maybe it's just these people. You might just be right, so stop blaming yourself.

You probably can't think of anything that they would be jealous of, but still I tell you, I'd almost bet on it. Don't think to change yourself. Just see if you can identify one or two to try to spend some separate time with, and see what you can do to change perceptions -- not by trying to "convince" them, but just by getting to know them. Just be yourself. Beyond that, what can you do? Probably best just come to the realization that they aren't for you, and find other friends and your kids will find their own way I'm sure, even if they get excluded from this group. Are they feeling the hurt from the exclusion, or is it more just you feeling it on their behalf? Just wondering...

Anyway, I feel your pain in so many ways about the neighbor thing, I cannot tell you. I'd list those three and a half years of torture and having to move as one of the most significant things that has ever happened to me in terms of life-altering.

(((((((NickyLynn)))))))

I know what you mean about being the "outsider". Even from childhood (when I was severely bullied) I don't get the invitations to houses and parties but once in a while. When I initiate contact, I'm often refused. But I feel like on the few occasions that they feel me worthy of an invite (and sometimes it feels like I'm the last option or the required invitation for one reason or another) that I shouldn't say no because if I do, then the mere trickle of invites will go away. Which makes me feel even less valued but what choice do I have except be a hermit, which we all know is emotionally and psychologically unhealthy?

Anyway, not intending to take over the thread, sorry. I just wanted to offer sympathy and support if I can. I know it's not easy to say "screw 'em" when they're neighbors (or in my case as a child, classmates) because there's the constant feeling that you're not wanted because you just can't escape them, they're always RIGHT THERE. Maybe confronting them in a straightforward way will give you an answer, possibly not the answer you want but at least you'll know where they stand, so to speak, and you can go forward with the information.

And you're not at fault for their bad behavior. It's wonderful that they're accepting of your kids. And as previous posters have said, you're a terrific mom for wanting to stay somewhere so your kids can grow up in a healthy social environment for them. But please don't sacrifice your own well-being and psychological health in the process.

I've been reminded by the wonderful folks on this board that depression is an equal opportunity disease. Rich, poor, old, young, employed, broke, all are fair game. You're going through a very dark time, understandable based on your situation. Lots of people, me included, don't have tragedy stories but they still suffer from depression. It's not a character flaw, it's a disease. If your lows are feeling even lower than usual, please try to talk to your therapist or doctor about changing up the treatment routine. And of course, post as much as you need to, because that's what we're all here for.

Hope I helped a little.