well here's how it goes....

i remember being naturally happy until the age of around 9.. thereafter its been horrible.. and largely because of my inability to interact properly with people i think.. perhaps if i tell you my history i could get some good pointers..

ok i remember being happy at my very first school.. then at the age of 7 i went abroad to a very hot country with my family for one year where my father worked... again everything was great .. although my parents were arguing a lot...

i came back home and at 8yrs of age i was in boarding school for a year. it was tough to start but by the end i liked it very much.. you mature a lot for an 8yr old in circumstances such as that..

ok age 9 i am brought out of school where i had become quite independent but with decent relationships and also quite deeply religious. two things seemed to not go right for me then. My parents.. actually highly overprotective mediterranean parents who could not bear me in boarding school any longer were trying to put me back to how i was.. ie not the more mature kid i had become. Secondly i was put in a day private school with spoilt rich kids who had not developed the sensitivity and maturity i felt i had at boarding school.

This was the toughest because i didn't like them and they didn't like me.. and there were more of them than me!! so i was picked on pretty ferociously (mainly mentally).. it almost drove me out of my mind.. i had to see a child psychiatrist.. there had been one brief sexual experimentation (i think harmless) at boarding school with another boy and i confessed this at the interview.. the thought of letting my parents know that had weighed heavily on me.. but once i said it i was fine with it.. and this hardly stopped the problems i was having with the other boys

(fyi i have never been effeminate and never experimented again in case you think that could be the source of bullying)

so i go back to school.. and it continues.. as a result i think i develop a vindictive streak of my own.. which on the whole would only come out on my own friends! and this thing arose where i did not value one or maybe 2 people that liked me but always the cool group i was not part of...

it felt like i was suffering a great deal.. and i was always running through my mind what i need to try to change things.. but i could never change things.. and i was always feeling terrible.. nobody that i was i around was i happy with.. i continued to be picked on all the way through to university

i think i lost the capacity right there to be natural with people.. the things people naturally do to get along with others i am always trying to work out how to do them.. and this must come across negatively always i imagine..... i know i need to relax but i am the most chilled out person in the world but when it comes to people i am now a total unnatural.. perhaps ironically i think i don't sacrifice enough of myself, give enough to get what i am wanting.. (maybe thats it..)

all the way through my troubles with kids you might have thought my parents would have helped me out.. but no they were too busy fighting terribly to help me.. not only this they would each try to get my support in whichever argument they were having.. i think this had the dual effect of screwing me up and also making me a bit spoilt in a way.. because i would interrupt adults etc thinking i'm on their level...

anyway by the time i get to university i am highly sensitive and with no social skills whatsoever.. i try but keep judging myself as failing.. and as such i fail..
i manage to emerge from university with 2 good friends that i have to this day (who i don't see very much but they consider me their best friend..).. but that is all up to this point .. no school friends and constantly screwing up in front of everybody else... i also live in a large capital city where you don't get much social interaction without a lot of planning and effort..

also could be some cultural things happening.. i am from mixed but both european cultures and i live in a different culture again.. so there is not that sense of belonging.. also no relatives that i grew up with.. just a very intensive mediterranean family unit like a pressure cooker..

in some ways i am very shy in others i can be very brash and rude.. i think that i now treat everyone the same.. which i notice others do not.. i'm a bit self righteous... so i will not give someone who might think he is becoming my friend any less hard of a time if he does something wrong than i would to anyone else... i bite once and they are gone (often i think i was right to be angry).. i guess i have not been around people enough to forgive them when they screw up.. surely i screw up too...

funny thing.. once i finally got 'accepted' into a 'group'.. bunch of nice guys always going out on saturdays to look for girls.. we were in our low 20s.. funny thing here is i realized far from being so weak.. i was much stronger than any of these guys individually.. they were very exposed within the group and all relied on each other but there would be some pretty pathetic arguments etc etc... anyway one of the guys hit on a girl i was trying to date so that was the end of that...

anyway.. here i am 36.. still always uncomfortable around people.. i do quite well with girls but after a while we always break up - i think my lack of confidence - and some jealousy which i am trying to work on - being a huge turn off.. i think i can bizarrely be dismissive at the wrong times when people are being good to me and overly helpful -practically a saint - when i don't need to be!! never sure if i am saying the right thing, highly self conscious... and i'd love to have some years of freedom from myself(without the suicide i often fantasize about) and to have simple joys in life before i die!! like the people i see in bars who effortlessly seem to be having a good time without worrying about anything..

i'd like to have a wife and kids even!

any help or similar experiences i'd love to hear from you..

basically i'm doing it wrong (as i would always say to myself at school) and i'd love to do it right

thx for reading

Hi Mark

I read your post and felt I could be reading about myself in alot of ways...you are not alone and others have similar feelings of inadequecy. I have almost zero social skills in some situations and in others I can be the life and soul of the party. I have no friends at the moment (trying hard to work on that one!) I have never felt like I have fitted in anywhere and this just adds to my depression.

Its sounds like you had a very unsettling childhood...I did too. these are the most vital years for developing social skills and a sense of identity. But try not to beat yourself up about these things. These are things we can change.

Are you getting any support at the moment?

Batfink

P.S welcome to DF

hi

thx for your post..

no no help..

the few times i asked for help i managed to run the psycologist trying to help in mental circles!

i think another defense mechanism!

i'm kind of depressed but this is not something drugs can cure.. i'm pretty sure its about solving my own issues..

go back to your GP, the answer isnt always meds for everyone. They are for me and lots of others but you can asked to be referred for some therapy, It sounds as if you could do with some support. We all need support in our lives. we cant do it on our own. I am having group therapy at the moment for a few different problems, but I chose group therapy because i thought it would help me overcome my crippling shyness that I have sometimes. Maybe you could benifit from that too. I hope you arent offended by suggestion.

We all want what you want...the house the family and kids..dont feel as though your asking for too much. Remember you are entitled to be happy we all are. we deserve a good life too.

Batfink

thx

perhaps i will try that.. or i might just seek out a counsellor myself...

i think it comes down to the individual counsellor because everyone i've seen so far has not helped... i felt that i my social issues enter into the equation even in the office with them! and i don't extract the best out of things!

hmmmmmmmmm i'm doing it again now ..

u see i am terminally self conscious... and it comes across like i'm playing.. in a way i am i suppose.. but actually i really want to solve this!!

thx for trying.....

what about CBT? that can be good for changing negative thought patterns? but as i have learnt these negative thoughts come from a source, and usually finding that source will help combat these patterns.

But yes you are right it does depend on the therapist..how comfortable you are with them...in all honesty im not that comfortable with mine, i get really paranoid around him, which makes me self concious.

Mark, others may disagree but it is hard to find a good therapist. There are good therapists out there but there are also those who just want money, plain and simple. I have had a difficult time finding a therapist and I can talk to anyone, anywhere........You have to use your instincts with a therapist. Find one that is really sincere in trying to help you, that's the key. I have been to several who just talk about this and that, the weather, etc etc...

[perhaps i might try it..

the cgt sounds interesting.. i need to look into that as it might d the trick.. i certainly have negative patterns... thx for the advice there

re:counsellors- the only thing is that in my experience i tend to take the most well intentioned therapist round in circles! it just gets counterproductive..

the thing is most therapists in the Uk, perhaps anywhere.. just listen...

if i knew the answer i would have worked it out..

given how self conscious etc i am i could talk for weeks to myself or someone else and it gets me nowhere... its just reproducing the mental torment i put myself though but out loud.. i gain nothing out of it, never have..

i could just pay myself to listen to myself!! :)

This post has been edited by mark1000: Jul 23 2008, 08:21 PM

Hi Mark,

First can I say I agree with Dave. Good therapists are like hens teeth and I do very much agree many of them are in business for reasons other than the patients.

I agree too with Batfink in that meds aren't for everyone. Always talk therapy should be the first option unless someone is suicidal. I'm a long term meds user now and I don't see any real need for them from what you say. But I'm no doctor so don't follow my advice on that!!! You may also be keeping back info which is normal too.

Can I say you seem very self aware and have analysed your past in such detail for us it should be easy for you to do that with a therapist.

You say you tied your therapist in knots, or similar words. Why?

If you see a therapist, GP or psychiatrist there is no point unless you are honest and open with them and don't compete. If you do then don't bother going at all. They have plenty of people who are actively cooperating. Why don't you?

You focus heavily on the period at boarding school and mention a sexual experiment. Assuming that was another 8 year old then it is actually quite normal and nothing to worry about at all. Kids experiment, I recall at a much younger age than 8 playing "doctors" in our back yard. And getting screamed at. We didn't know why at that age. It was a group of us, girls and boys.

You pinpoint your parents as being a problem as it seems they aren't interested and created a negative environment for you. Which naturally effects you badly. I would talk that area through with a therapist but of course they will want the whole story to give them perspective. Why not give a therapist a copy of this?

Could I suggest you trust your doc to refer you to a therapist. Explain the problem in broad terms and ask to see someone with expertise in that area. Relationships, family, cilture, childhood issues etc. Looking for yourself is likely to cause delay as there are so many promising so much and delivering so little.

CBT is something I don't like but I'm a deep depression sufferer and cannot use it. It is enjoyable doing the sessions and it does help you understand how the whole proces of thought, action and emotion fit together.

You say you only have 2 good friends. Lucky You mate. Most will tell you they have none at all.

Your experience as part of the Boys group is a typical one I'm afraid. You have to lower your standards to be a part of such a group and you could not do that. Not your problem, it's theirs. What would prefer? To be with that type or alone? I choose alone every time.

I too am self righteous and it does hurt me often but I don't suffer fools gladly and tend to ignore them once I know. I don't attack them verbally etc but I do respond if baited.

You asked if anyone can get you out of the rut. Yes, you can. By seeking help and cooperating with that help. Don't fight them.

As to friends, they come and go in life and today people are far more fickle than they used to be. I tend to put that down to our "sound byte" society where concentration spans are in seconds and text messaging is commonly used. So impersonal and really quite insulting as I consider texts as saying "I can't be bothered talking to you". So I never reply until they get the message. Being, talk.

From what you've written here I'd suggest you are in a very good position to improve your life. Really as much as you want. But you must learn to trust medical people, therapists and so on. If you don't like a particular one, leave, try another. And trust yourself too, your instincts sound quite good and will make you stand out from the crowd.

Don't take all the blame for what other people are like. Most are living in fear (rejection, job security, image etc) and put on a front. As such they hurt many and no one gets through those barriers after a while.

Best

Friendly.

Hi Friendly!

I only just came back to my email as i started a new job last week..

thank you for looking at what i had to say in such detail.. nobody has to do anything like this for anyone and i really appreciate that!

not only that u may have convinced me to try a therapist again -. i will try to co-operate.. but i need someone who does more than listen and direct i think.. having said that.. just writing that synopsis of my life the other day did help me.. however i think part of my problem has always been to run through countless theories to myself.. which screws me up.. i probably need a therapist to control me quite well in session..

just a point to note.. paradoxically my parents did care too much! they are very over-protective.. even now - especially my mother who comes from a highly dysfunctional family- has always tried to live her life through us - putting me and my brother under unnecessary pressure.. but they also fought like dogs and involved us which was not very mature on their part.. particularly when they might kiss and make up in the evening while us kids lie in bed all emotionally torn/unresolved after having had them vent (my mother really) their frustrations out on us.. but despite this i could not have more loving parents. they would do anything for us at any time and that never really changed.. the hurt they caused was i think collateral damage.

thx again.. i hope you start feeling better. It is ironic that someone who is able to give light to someone can suffer from depression themselves..

anyway its my theory that people who have these issues are generally highly sensitive and they need to be at least above average intelligence to be so! so we can take comfort in that :-)

txx

mark

This post has been edited by mark1000: Jul 26 2008, 10:36 AM

Dysfunctional families often create dysfunctional children. The overprotection parents do is a means (in their minds) to keep you from falling into the dysfunction they have. Making you the mediator in your parents' arguments means you have to choose between them. It does create mental/emotional havoc in any child which colors the way they think as they grow to adulthood and beyond. It sounds as if you are struggling with this. Do not allow your parents to use you as a sounding board or mediator. They need to fix their own problems, not you or your brother fixing them. Maybe telling them to see a marriage counselor would work. It would definitely set you free of the emotional/mental strain. This is from my experience growing up in a dysfunctional home (both parents grew up in dysfunctional families.) and how it affected me.

You are very insightful with yourself. Look at what you've posted here. You have the answer to solving your issues. However, it's difficult for many people to see the answers due to our own dysfunctional thiunking. Therapy can help you see your problems in a different context. Therapists do not tell/give you the answer to your problems but guide and give feedback while you do the self-work necessary to make changes in yourself. If you play "mind games" with your therapist, you are defeating the purpose and making it harder for yourself. Being honest and open to suggestions is the key to your recovery. If you need to know a bit about what CBT involves, there are several threads in Psych Ed 101 that contain a few of the self-work exercises required to change your perceptions and cognition. It's a good therapy (best I've ever had) to help with self-esteem, anger management and can improve the way you interact with others socially. Finding the right therapist, one you feel comfortable with, is trial and error. I know if you're in the UK you may not have the option of selecting your therapist with NHS. If you do decide to try therapy again, print out what you have posted here and give it to the therapist to read. It will give them insight to your issues and how to work with you (they'll know that you can be argumentive.)
Sheepwoman

i'm sorry i couldn't really give your post and other posts justice by reading through all of them- my adhd won't allow me to really do that.

anyway...
i fully believe that medication gets us to the point where we are able to confront our issues and see them with greater clarity. maybe you're in such a circle of confusion right now that you can't see the forest from the trees, however meds could help silence those thoughts and bring reality to the fore.

[thx for your feedback i will probably follow up the cbt line.. i already found one centre near where i live..

i am much much older now so my folks asking for my advice doesn't really happen anymore.. anyway as an adult i am meant to be able to deal with this stuff now!! its was more how about how it shaped me

no meds for me...

my issues are more social i think.. i feel i can solve them without meds.. even now i am coping ok.. although miserably! not sure if meds is the cure

my view is meds should only be taken if 200% necessary

When I read your story.....its intresting because I can relate to a certain extent. I am 26 and it has hit me I have no

friends left, I have obsesed over my job ( I am self employed and work alone). I have no idea how to talk to girls and its

official I have no friends. All my so called friends just want something from me a ride, dugs alcohol. I am not an addict I

smoke grass and thats it. Smoking weed I developed contacts who I call for the soul purpose of finding weed and thats

it. Everyone I went to highschool with doesn't even ****ing care if I exist. I don't even know who I am any more I look

in the mirror and its like a stranger looking back. I have a negative personalty and more than that I am generally boring

to be around I have nothing to offer a conversation other than a pesimistic comment or silence mostly silence. I had a

girl come up to me at a bar that I was with "friends" she was beautiful; she came up to me and said "cheer up downer". I

mean this woman is a complete stranger and obvisly somewhat intoxicated and she still could see right through my

pathetic attempt to make a social presence. I just don't know what I am going to do, I am going to see a therapist soon

because I can't even keep up a fascade of a personality anymore my pain and agony is almost to hard to hide.

Hi again Mark,

Reading your story reminded me a lot of my background which is why it interested me. My father was someone who professed love all my life but from a distance. If you were around him he couldn't do it and always took the "You should do better" approach. I'm sure he thought that would work but it created the opposite in all 3 children. Low self esteem and so on. It built the depression to what it became. There was a trauma that initiated it but it was his approach that entrenched it and made it so deeply a part of us.

Of course I didn't know that until a decade ago else I would have left him behind earlier. I have since cut ties and the weight lift was palpable. No guilt, just relief.

I will have this thing for the rest of my life I'm afraid but I'm 57 now and the worst is behind. I hope, you never know. I've learnt to live with and manage it and know when it is escalating and so on. As opposed to the first time when it was the sky falling in.

Yes, I do have good days, and bad. To me depression is no longer a death sentence. I hate having it but I use it in places like this, usually to show others what mistakes I've made so they can try and avoid them. No one can give another the way out, just suggest ways to deal with it.

So, I enjoy writing, particularly when someone at least thinks it helps some. That's the best therapy for me really. Fact. That's why I write on these forums. Not to demonstrate any expertise as I'm just another sufferer. But to communicate on a level people may appreciate on an issue they seek help with.

If you do see a therapist remember there is only one way it will help. You must give full and honest info. Anything else and it will fail and you will blame them. You are a team and the first priority is to find someone you are comfortable with and able to be open. I know too well the horrors of sitting opposite someone who I loathe and want to hit etc for saying something.

A good therapist will never judge you. Nor will they tell you what to do. However, if you ask them to stop you roaming into areas A,B and C then they will. Gently.

I note you started a new job and I hope it's going well. Can make a big difference to our lives.

Also your resistance to meds. No one really likes them Mark. Loonatix has said basically what I did which is good as Loonatix must have had similar experiences to I with therapy. Being, if your depression is deep or chronic it just doesn't work. Particularly CBT. I certainly think you should check it out and know you would enjoy sessions on such as they are very good. It's just that once you are alone again with no therapist to poke you it feels like you have failed which is counter productive. So what Loonatix says is spot on. Some of us need meds to raise our thinking to a level where it should help.

Hopefully you are not in our boat and it works well for you.

Good luck mate and try to trust. I should speak! Like many I can see the problems, for myself too. But change or fix them? Nope. Maybe one day....


Best

Friendly