Hi, I hope some of you might have some answers for me... short version.. brother in law. suffered extreme financial hardship, became depressed. this has been going on for many weeks now. He comes out of the room at 5 and then stands in the bathroom staring in mirrow til I ask him to come to dinner. he does not shower. he has no joy in life at all. I dont know how to help him, how far to go. We cant really afford to get therapy right now, no aid available. Im lost. I ask him if he was feeling like he could commit suicide.. he said yes. I said what stops you? he said people and family. He is in there. How do I get him out. severe weight loss, will eat anything you give him, but wont on his own. any ideas, anyone dealt with this. I personally have had depression some years ago. Mild nothing like this. also if you really push him he shakes and heart beat rapid and breathing rapid and get upset. not violent as yet. pushing = how about taking a walk with the dog and me.

he has to want to do it for him. I know thats hard to hear and deal with but unfortunately its the way it is. If he's non violent, which I hope he stays that way, there just isn't alot to do.

Keep posting and looking on the forums. were glad you here and wil send plenty of support your way.

Thanks Heather, we are just at a loss. But we love him and will hang in there. His wife and mother keep telling him to shape up and get a grip... like he can, Im sure he wants to but just cant right now.

Thanks Isabeau,
Previously he was at another brother's house and they did get him to go see the GP he gave him some meds but Tom wont let me see them. I dont know if he is taking them or even what it is. He also has a sleeping pill, which i dont think he takes. Last night he said he would go to the gym with my husband this morning, but wouldnt come out of the room and go. When my sister in law (other brothers wife) ask him to go to counseling he said he would but when she made the appt. he pretty much freaked, heavy breathing, some yelling, shaking. So she told him he didnt have to go and then he was fine. His wife is in California where they were living when this all came down. She cant deal with it at all. The two brothers are in the process of buying them a house close to us where they can live and start over. I am just hoping maybe going to look at houses will give him some hope. Our biggest worry is how long can he go like this and will if eventually mean best thing for him is in house care. I can and will do whatever, but bottom line, we want to do whatever will help him the most.
Amy

Hi Amy!

Joining the other ladies here, I am equally sorry for your brother and you. While he is doing some serious suffering, the weight of this on you is most scary as well as very tiring. So, as was previously mentioned, do take care of yourself 1st If you were to crash, then where would your brother be?

I couldn't help but wonder if your brother did work or not. Whether he did or didn't, he certainly can't now for sure.

Here's my slight suggestion, and you may have already tried this. But if not, give it some consideration. Maybe when he appears to be okay, like when he accepts food and is eating. Strike up a conversation with him and tell him how he appears to you. Don't make any judgments as to his behavior, or what he is or isn't doing. Just tell him how you feel about this situation and how afraid you are for him. Ask him how he sees himself. Then, is he okay to be in this state of mind or does he wish not to be. If he says that he is perfectly okay and is not interested in getting help, then that is when I would bring out the big guns. Let him know that the longer he continues on this path, the worse he will become. And he may reach a point where you are no longer able to have him to live with you due to the burden of responsibility. Tell him that when you are out of options, and your worries are such that YOU are not able to function, since you don't want to toss him into the street, you may have to talk with some professionals to have him hospitalized for his own safety and for your peace of mind. Then leave him alone to dwell. If he doesn't come back to you within a few days with any words, ask him if he has had any thoughts about your conversation as you would like to know how he feels about it. You would like him to understand what you are facing.

Also, try calling one of the suicide help lines, (the #'s are listed here). Tell them of your dilemma and maybe they can either give you some good advice, or tell you something to say to get him on the phone. You have nothing to lose by calling them, and they are the trained folks to deal with this sort of thing.

Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you and really wish I could help you better. Please do keep coming in here and at the least, unload your worries. This is a safe place for doing that and everyone here is willing to listen. Also, read what you can about this. Check the portal page, and scroll all the way down. Most likely you will find articles of interest.

Best of luck to you. You are a wonderful sister to take him and his problems on. Don't forget that.
Always Trying

Thanks Always,
I have had the conversations you described. He did work before.. in the loan business some how... he got transferred from utah to cali.. they were very excited as they wanted to live there. one month later. "oh by the way you dont have a job tomorrow we are now closed.' he had been in the business and worked for same co for 18 years. Mean time wife refuses to let her life be changed and continued the charging and spending. they are in late 40s with over 100g in cc debt.
she was still taking money out of retirement account to pay some bills.. which will create a tax liability etc etc. He is actually my brother in law. youngest of 3 he was formerly at the other brothers in chicago, but when all agreed that maybe it would be best if they relocate here..phoenix where the cost of living is less than cali.. we brought him home with us to "look for house" the brothers are going to buy and let them live in. We thought this good idea.. One they will be close to do things with and help. two own house with yard for animals and a sense of independence. he agreed to go with my husband this morning to the gym, but just couldnt get up and out. I have been taking lunch to his room, but feel bad that he is in there alone to eat. The other sister in law would take hers in to and sit with him, but he doesnt seem to like that. I really appreciate all the responses, keep them coming. Thank you all. I need the help and support.

Hi aughra,

Sheesh! No wonder he's depressed! Who wouldn't be? As to his wife, hoo boy! I think she is actually in a worse place than he is! He is taking his pain internally, she is going outside of herself. But, what she is doing would push me to way lower than your brothers! To be honest, I can't even imagine being in the situation he is in. I can imagine and can relate to having a job for as long as he did. And to pack up and move away from the secure 'knowns' to another place and then have the rug pulled out from under you, man, that is awful
Having experienced the rug being pulled out, I have to confess, (you don't want to hear this) that I crashed BIG time. It took me a solid 5 years before I could look at someone and not burst into tears. Suicide was always an option, since in my mind, what difference would it make. But it wasn't something I would actually do. My friends were beside themselves for the same reason as you. At the time, there was no way that I could say what I wanted or didn't, would do or wouldn't and to look down the road was simply an impossibility. I lived as a zombie for 5 years. It wasn't fun. I didn't have anyone else around me to help. So I'm not sure if that helped or not. It did force me to pay my bills and to go to the grocery store, but that was the high point of my activities. I was living off of annuity income so I didn't have to worry about income, even though I did.
Wth your brother, if we didn't factor in what his wife is doing, a part of me feels like it's a matter of time. Something that you can't affect no matter what, not directly anyhow. Indirectly yes. The day will come when he will be saying that he never would have made it if not for you. I think I really do feel (now) that this is all he needs, is time. He may get scary down, but you deal as the days present themself. What is of concern is the wife's spending. It's very very hard to have start your life over being massively in debt and broke. It wouldn't surprise me if the wife didn't 'get it'until the reality of the bill collectors are at her door. It's too bad that this event didn't pull the 2 of them closer together instead of apart. BUT - you know all of this, so I'm wasting your time. Maybe he should close out all of the credit card accounts, and even close the checking and any savings, if he can. Maybe he should see a lawyer about this. This is a huge problem!

So okay, I'm empty! Try this perspective with your brother. Be positive. When the opportunity presents itself, say things like, "oh we know you'll come through this. It may take some time, but ultimately you'll rise." Never dumping on him as he already feels worthless. So make your goal to build up his self esteem. He needs to muster strength to deal with getting a new job and dealing with the wife. Remind him that you'll aways be there for him, no matter what turns the road takes. Otherwise, I'm back to 'sheesh!'

Good good luck to you,
Always trying

Hi, just a couple of thoughts which might be useful.

Firstly, it seems quite likely that this is a response to losing his job. In a way situational depression is better than no known cause because it means hes more likely to recover. However, it is very difficult to change the situation hes currently in, clearly he can't and shouldn't be looking for work in his current situation. Have you talked to him about how he feels about it ie humiliated, lost his bearings, no purpose etc. If this does seem to be a big part of the problem, you may be able to get him in contact with a local mens group with other men who have lost their job and feel the same way. Or perhaps a website which describes the experience and he may see himself in that. This would probably be difficult the way he is now and perhaps better when he recovers a little.

One thing about being depressed is that you know most people just don't understand, they have almost no idea what it is like. People who have been through it understand quite well. You're been through mild depression, and appear to be very empathetic. So it might be an idea to get him to look at other peoples personal stories of depression, he is likely to identify with what they are saying and it will give him hope when he sees many have recovered. So either pointing him to a website like this one, or printing something off that you think is useful and giving it to him might help. That is why a website like this has helped alot of us.

It sounds like he is having a great deal of difficulty being social right now, and probably very anxious when he has to talk to people. Do you know how he spends his time in his room? It seems fairly likely that he is staring at the ceiling all day. If so, you may want to try to get him doing a hobby, such as reading sci-fi or fantasy books or doing sudoku. Something that makes time fly, is not taxing on the brain and dosen't get him anxious. This could be helpful at the moment and then you may have more success with the gym and more difficult activities down the track.

I agree that you should try to be positive around him. Like most people with depression, he will likely recover in a few months or few years. He may know this intellectually, as i did. But it feels like it will go on this way forever, and it is very hard to break that feeling. If your family members are saying things which aren't helping (ie snap out of it, be a man) try to educate them.

The rapid breathing and heart rate you describe sounds like quite serious anxiety, or perhaps panic attacks. I know very little about this personally, but i definitely think it worth your while to read up about anxiety and how to deal with it. Alot of people (somewhere around 50% i think) have depression and anxiety together. It would be very useful to get a doctors opinion on this, but you can start with the internet. You need to have thought about how you will react if he does become violent, hopefully he dosen't, but your safety is most important if he does.

I presume that his wife is your sister. Its worth reading the riot act to her on the finances, it will create a big trap in a few years time when your brother in law has hopefully recovered. I would imagine that your whole family is rather concerned about the spending. It might be worth thinking about who out of you, your mum and dad she would most listen to, and get them to have a quiet but forceful word to her about it. If she dosen't change her behaviour, it might be time to gang up on her and confront her openly.

You're doing a very good thing being so helpful to your brother in law. It must be very difficult, and difficult knowing what is the right thing to do. Try not to get discouraged and make sure you look after yourself.

All of your posts are very helpful.. He is actually my husbands brother. I have only been married to my husband for 5 years so I dont know Tom as well as some. He is an amazing guy. Funny you wouldnt believe. The three brothers would get together and recite verbatim just about every monty python movie and circus. He barely laughs, when he does I cheer for him. He loves getting hugs, sometimes I dont think he will let go. My other sister in law and I talked about him writing things down. While he was there she was cleaning his room and found a notebook.. she did glance thru it and he had been writing for a couple of weeks... worthlessness, why would anyone love me or help me... the expected. He absolutely could not work right now that is for sure and the only one who thinks he should is his mother... but that is another whole story. : ) Ann (other sister in law) and I have basically quarantined the mother from him. She is a very nasty person... I love you and Im here for you, I just wish you werent such a burden on your family.... stuff like that... I could scream. When she called tonight to invite the three of us to dinner tomorrow, I ask him if he wanted to go... anxiety central kicked in. I gave the phone to my husband and he said no mom were not ready for that yet. The anxiety or panic seems to be situational. Something has to 'put' him there. I do know about those, I started having them with menopause... btw.. Tom is 48 my husband is the oldest at 55 Im 53 and Scott is the middle son. He is the one in chicago. Scott is actually an atty and is dealing with the financial stuff. Tom is one of the lucky ones in this... he has family who are able to help get the monkeys off his back while he gets well. He even knows this, he has verbalized it. He just feels so worthless right now. I told him tonight that I would like him to try to come out of the room tomorrow and have lunch with us..maybe outside. And... that I wanted to be able to wash the sheets... So he said.. ok ill come for lunch and ill take a shower if you are going to wash sheets or ill get them dirty... god love him. His family is very ..Im not sure what the word is... well my husband is a nuclear engineer and the brother in chicago is the real estate atty who negociated the sears tower transfer... the dad was chemical engineer.. and then poor tom has lost his job. He feels like crap. I also think he feels bad about being here. Im a cancer patient... under control its all good. But I think he feels like an extra burden.. So I try very hard not to let him see me on down times. Anyway thank you so much for writing and you are not taking up my time... these letters are helping me. they really are.
Thanks
Amy

Good new... Tom was out of the room today at 11am.. had lunch with us at the table. Then... got in the shower and we went to a movie. A little prodding.. dont have to talk to anyone, dark room, get out a bit. so off we went. He has not been back to the room and we have had dinner and played some dominos. Not a big deal for us but probably took everything he has. Maybe tomorrow he will be back in the room, but I consider this a victory...one less day spent staring at the walls and ceiling.
Thanks for your support, Im sure Ill be back to whine when we have a bad day.

Thats great news!!!

Must of been such a suprise for all of you,
Thats a huge step forward since you first posted.

I am so happy for you and your family

Keep us posted
HUGS
Isabeau

I told him that before he knows it, he will have more and more of those days and less bad ones. he has been in the room since except for dinner and then the evening. But tomorrow is another day.