Hi.

I was just wondering what techniques you have found useful in dealing with your depression/anxiety without the need of meds..

I personally think the best cure is dealing with the root cause. But what is essential is your mind is clear and relaxed.

So the plan for me is to let my mind relax and then think back to the root cause and deal with it. I don't see the point in worrying about the symptoms (but make sure i know them) when they will go away once the depression/anxiety lifts!

Everytime I feel the symptoms coming back i'll remember that it is my amygdala and no reason for me to feel this way now and relax. Then go back to the root cause again. Keep doing this until my mind reprogrammes itself.

Also gaining knowledge about the problem would be a much bigger advantage to me if it does happen again.

I also think it is essential I know why I feel this way (emotional intelligence) or in my mind attach my feelings to some cause as that it will help to focus my mind on the cause.

I think people who don't know why they feel the way they do make it much difficult for themselves to overcome the problem. Also I think it is wise to talk to people who have had mental problems and now are completely over them. This gives me that extra boost.

Comments welcome.

This post has been edited by Logic: Mar 11 2008, 12:00 PM

Hi Logic

Interesting perspective if the depression is not a chemical imbalance.
What do you think caused your depression?

Trace

I looked into great detail over months about if my depression could be caused by a root cause. I eventually came to the conclusion it wasn't logical. Looking at the things which happened to me when I was young which made me the unhappy person today, I found that it could make me feel better about myself justicifying its not my fault why my life is the way it is but it did not cure my depression.

Hi Trace. No one is born with chemical imbalance thus something / some event/ your perception must have caused/triggered this imbalance in serotonin. For me it was definately stress related. Taking AD ,in my opinion, only corrects a symptom and does not deal with the true route cause.

I think other people should try this option as they have nothing to lose and it seriously does work. I mean I would not be satisfied that i am depressed for no good reason. Would you?? There is definately a reason and people should focus more on finding the reason(s) rather than on their symptoms.

Hope it helps.

Logic

Actually I do not have clinical depression (a chemical imbalance). I was merely stating that someone with a chemical imbalance will find it very hard to just change their life style and better their lives and this can normally not be done without meds or a combination of meds and therapy.
For a stress related depression, it can be possible to achieve without meds and with a change in life style and perhaps therapy.
I personally, have overcome depression and I did not take meds, however I did not have a chemical imbalance and used many other resources that lifted me out. Therapy, God, my surroundings, taking opportunities to change the way I live, caffiene makes a difference to my day, so I enjoy my coffee and occasionally for extra energy, a red bull!

Trace

This post has been edited by Trace82: Mar 11 2008, 07:35 AM

Hi Logic,

That is a pretty strong statement that no one is born with a chemical imbalance. Many of our members here have stated that "they have been depressed for as long as they can remember" or "I have been depressed since early childhood" and to boot, many have said that through all of these feelings they have lived idyllic lives, loving and supportive home lives. I would think that their perceptions of their early years holds just as much merit as someone that describes a horrible childhood.

It is known that the chemical imbalance can be progressive, getting worse with age, much like the inability to process alcohol. So, might there not be enzyme systems that as they get progressively dysfunctional produce less and less functional serotonin, to mention just one of the brain amines (neurotransmitters). Research and peer reviews have revealed that there is a direct genetic link to mood disorders. One MH issue that is strongly genetic is schizophrenia, but the norm is most people don't start showing symptoms until their midteens. But one would have to surmise that the dysfunctional abnormalities inherent with schizophenia must exist from birth.

I know that my MH issues definitely progressed with age, what was once barely noticeable, and maybe a drink of two, a cup of coffee, whatever was enough to control the symptoms, evolved into a condition that had me voluntarily admitting myself into psychiatric wards until I finally was treated with a medication that completely abolished these symptoms overnight. And I can safely say that I have no traumatic experiences in my life. Not to say everything was always perfect, but a far as I know, and I have had extensive and successful pTherapy, both talk therapy and CBT, no what one would describe as traumatic.

I was successful in school, in my professional life, a full love life, a great son and terrific grandchildren. Both my parents are still alive and I am 64 soon. I have had money, toys, loves and everything one could think of except peace of mind, and it slowly depreciated with time. Ten years ago, I took my first pMed, a pretty mild one at that and as things got better lifestyle-wise, my MH deteriorated. Now I take a cocktail of meds and my life continues to be good. But again, my need for meds increases over time. I am fully convinced that whatever NT system, or enzymes needed to produce them properly will continue to deteriorate. Am I setting myself up for continued dependence on meds, I doubt it, I think of myself being very optimistic about my future, but I also think I am being realistic about my condition.

But I also support anyone that can do without meds, I don't think that every situation requires them. And then there are the tweeners, those that may need meds for a short period to stabilize themselves. I am sure this happens in substance abuse. And I know many MH clients that take no meds at all, therapy does it for them. And I fully appreciate that in them, sit on the sidelines and root for them in fact.

Peace and Love.... wayne

I just had a long discussion about that with my CBT therapist. I've also found relief from meds. But what I have found out that meds have relieved my symptoms, but I have done corrections in my beliefs, my thinking, and my behaviour, and this is no way smaller part than getting rid of the symptoms. the relapse rate of depression is higher when people take only med do alleviate symptoms, but make no lifestyle/thinking pattern changes.

the degree to witch depression symptoms are genetic, inherited etc is different for every person. I have a strong heritage, my mother was suffering from depression and committed suicide. so, I have no guilt over being ill, I didn't think in a wrong way or dealt with problems in a wrong way, it's just that my nervous system is weak, and it collapsed finally after being overwhelmed. but now that I know that, there are many more things I can do to support it, besides medication, and I'm postive about using them all.

so, way to go, logic!
soleil

Hi . There are alot of proven ways of changing the chemical balance without AD. Thinking of good things from past and focusing on good memories is one. According to several studies AD is no more affective than placebo. So belief plays an important role. I have my AD that is believing in God and that God will help me and believing in myself and that I will get over it.

I'm glad you have conquered your depression



There is no proof that depression or schizophrenia is genetic. However there are theories and it is just one of the possibilities. But there is a familial link. If a family member has it your chances of getting it increase significantly. This does not mean everyone in the family will get it. I personally think it is more to do with the thinking patterns that are learnt from these family members that predisposes you. Schizo is far more serious and it is more than an emotional problem and thus is in a different catogory to depression.

If I have been depressed for 2 years will I be able to feel or think clearly of the positive past experiences? I think I would also say I have been depressed as far as I can remember.



Negative thoughts cause negative emotion.

This is what I think causes depression. Some event occurs that you are not happy about, a series of negative thoughts go through your consious mind, you cannot change the event and so get depressed, event continues, thoughts continue, get more depressed, thoughts become subconcious, feel depressed without any particular reason or cause. I think that is why when someone has an event that does not last long the depression lifts but when it is long term then the negative thoughts become subconscious and thus you feel depressed without no apparent cause.

These are my logical explanations. You are more than welcome to differ.

you are both correct, and not correct. it´s just not that simple always. belief does play an important role in depression. in fact, the center of the depression from the thoughts side, is always negative beliefs about the world or about oneself. so changing those beliefs and attitudes is an important part in healing from depression, and some people may do that, just with cognitive-behavioural therapy, which has proved to be an effective tool for conquering depression.

HOWEVER, in other cases, it´s not ENOUGH. I´m a living proof. I did everything I could, I practiced all CBT tools vigorously, I changed my life a lot, I changed my opinion about myself a lot. it was not enough though, because I couldn´t conquer physical symptoms like memory loss, fatigue, the inability to feel feelings. the inability to remember good times, the inability to remember my mom, the inability to sense MYSELF as a WHOLE. I was feeling like a failure when I couldn´t help myself only with willpower and doing the right things, but now I have forgiven myself, because I realize I couldn´t have changed those things. And I couldn´t have focused on good parts of my life, when I didn´t remember them fully, or I couldn´t have enjoyed things when I literally could not feel (I understood this later, when I started feeling).

But I´m still very positive about CBT and changing the beliefs and behaviours to conquer depression. I would be TOTALLY lost and in a bad position if I had been relying ONLY on meds. it´s just that sometimes one needs both.



not correct. it has been proven that depression is genetic, especially it´s worse forms like bipolar disorder. depression includes thinking patterns but this is just one part of it. if you say depression is not serious, then you are lucky because you have experienced only mild version. mine could have almost killed me. and it did kill my mother.



correct. depression is a disorder that causes spiralling worsening. bad thoughts causes bad feeling, bad feeling causes certain behaviour, this behaviour causes bad thoughts, and the circle starts again. i.e. the person thinks that some work is overwhelming and he can´t do that -- he then feels depressed -- he then cancels the activity and does not finish the work -- he then says to himsef, I really am bad and cannot handle this.

if you can dispute your negative automatic thoughts, and do not change your behaviour, you have better chances for coming out of depression.

HOWEVER, this is not always enough. depression is far more than just psychological disorder with wrong beliefs, it is a lot of time very somatic, brain illness. Illness is an illness, and it can be impossible to get rid of the SYMPTOMS of depression just by thinking and acting correctly. it´s beyond willpower.



It is also correct, but again only half-correct and needs addition. AD-s are no more effective than placebo IN CASE OF VERY MILD DEPRESSION. you know why? because there are not many physical symptoms, but the depression consists mainly of NEGATIVE THOUGHTS. AD does not change your thoughts, or beliefs. it only changes your physical being, you feel easier, and it´s then easier to change your thoughts to the better. It is also known that in case of more severe depression, those do not respond well to placebos, but only to AD-s.

the issue is about weather one has endogenous depression or exogenous (sp?). the first one is depression coming from the organism itself, and it can´t be treated with only thoughts, but needs meds as well. the other one is coming from negative thoughts and life circumstances and troubles, and responds better to therapy, and change of lifestyle. which type you have - good luck with finding out! :)

hugs,
soleil

Hi yoursoleil.

I don't have the energy to differ.

No problem. I didn´t mean to argue at all, but found it interesting to be able to express my opinion and I hope maybe you got some ideas out of it.

I hope you are doing good, and I wish you all the best :)

hugs,
soleil

To all,

I had the opportunity to see my pDoc today and was able to ask him a few questions, here are his answers concerning many of the issues being discussed here.

Affective (mood) disorders are genetically based, many research papers have defined this conclusion. What one can't predict is the manisfestation of these conditions. For instance, if a parent suffers from Major Depression, a child might suffer from GAD (anxiety). Research has even uncovered specific genes that will reveal whether a person might benefit most by a specific AD. He said that is why the same medication works in two seemingly different conditions. The same gene defect is manifestated in different ways, it might present as depression, anxiety or even OCD.

He said that apparently, Bipolar Disorder does not fit this simpler model, as well as schizophenia, but that they are not related to each other either.

Schizophenia is definitely genetically based. This is old news. The interesting fact is that schizophrenia typically manifests between 13-24 years of age. It has been suggested that the hormones developed during puberty play a role in this disease.

The most telling of these studies are those that are called "twin studies", what they involve is identical twins (exact same genes) being raised in different environments. In these studies the 'familial' link is totally eliminated. And in these studies, the occurence of mood disorders remains the same, effectively eliminating what might be described as situational causes of the mood disorder. What is clearly shown is that if you have the right combination of defective genes, you will suffer from a mood disorder, regardless of environmental influences.

What he told me was that there are specific genes that can predict the likelihood of suffering from these conditions, and he told me that there are numerous research materials to back this up.

In reference to that news article concerning ADs being no more effective that a placebo, it wasn't "several" studies but rather "one" study, and since then noted researchers have debunked its theories for several reasons. The biggest loop hole was that the results were taken after just 6 weeks on medication, hardly enough time to fully experience the benefits of the ADs tested as many of us know from experience. Apparently, there is far more research, especially research reviews containing more that 200, 000+ patients that show a significant and beneficial response to ADs.

Now, aside from that conversation today, one should note that genetic research are rarely cut and dried, this is because of the nature of genetics. In these disorders, one has to remember that certain genes may be dominent or recessive. Because of this, there is no way to say definitively that someone "will" or "will not" suffer from the illness regardless of the parents gene pool. One statistic I like to cite concerning the variability of genetic outcomes involves alcoholism.

Studies have should that if one parent is alcoholic, any children they may have is four (4) times more likely to become alcoholic. If both parents are alcoholic, the likelihood increases to eight (8) times. But in no way can one predict them becoming alcoholic as an absolute, but this research is tried and true and can be backed up with statistical research.

Of course, none of this may describe every case of mood disorder, there definitely is 'situational' depression. And it has been shown that these conditions can cause anatomical changes. And in the case of both genetic and situational depression, non-chemical treatment can be most effective in changing these anatomical changes. But as suggested in this discussion, meds can be the final element in a successful outcome.

Personally, I would hope that anyone suffering from a mood disorder would take full benefit of the various treatment regimens. Only in the most extreme cases does this not work, there is far too much research suggesting that accessing both medication and non-medical approaches is the optimal route to recovery. Again, this man's opinion based on this man's experience.

Peace and Love.... wayne

There is a very cool program called biofeedback that my wife did a while back, and it did her alot of good. It consists of being hooked up to several monitors, heart rate, perspiration, blood pressure, etc... You then watch on a screen how all of these readings fluctuate when you talk about stressful or depressing events. The operator/therapist then has you focus on doing things like lowering your heart rate and perspiration levels, and overall stress levels and eventually you get quite good at doing those things at will. Its proven very effective at allowing my wife to overcome panic attacks etc...

My wife is still on medication, but post biofeedback she really feels in control of her moods like she hadnt experienced before.