Hi- New here. Little intro- mom of son 11 dx BP at 8 ADD at 11 and daughter 9. Dx bipolar (probably bpII) at 19 tried lots of meds still don't have it right.

I'm not sure what course of action to take with my son. I can't figure out if he is majorly depressed, hypomanic, or in a dysphoric mixed state.
Symptoms of
Depression-
mopes around
trouble getting to sleep-but sleeps well through the night
low energy
difficulty concentrating
doesn't care about following rules
angry and irritable
time of year (SAD) symptoms started when the time changed
excercise seemed to help got worse when baseball stopped (about the same time as time change)
none of the "energy/euphoric" manic symptoms


Hypomanic
very Anger and irritable
ignores rules
sort of self destructive-doing things that will get him in trouble
can't focus or concentrate

dysphoric/mixed
all the thing that overlap

Really all signs point to depression except the intense anger.

what we have tried- was doing really well on 200mg lamictal, 18mg concerta and singulair for allergies-still taking these
when his behavior changed we added zoloft have played around with 25-50 mgs. No matter the dose it seems to help for a little while and then symptoms come back

I am afraid that the zoloft is making him cycle. (Have been reading a lot about the dangers of antidepressants causing cycling with bipolar)

I guess my questions are
Will upping his lamictal to stablize help or hurt because of the antidepressant effect it has?

Is adding depacote a better choice? I hate to give him more meds and depacote side effects sound kinda scarry

lastly, what about the concerta? Is it contributing to this? Or did it level off and this is ADD rearing it's ugly head and he needs to up the dose?

Sorry this is so long. Any input will be appreciated.


PS Making an appt with pdoc but can't always get in right away

[quote name='Andypandy' date='Jan 30 2007, 08:30 AM' post='204070']
[quote name='Shoppingchick' post='204028' date='Jan 29 2007, 02:52 PM']Hi- New here. Little intro- mom of son 11 dx BP at 8 ADD at 11 and daughter 9. Dx bipolar (probably bpII) at 19 tried lots of meds still don't have it right.

I'm not sure what course of action to take with my son. I can't figure out if he is majorly depressed, hypomanic, or in a dysphoric mixed state.
________________________________
I write the following in response to your email above. I'm not sure how much help it will be, but I am reflecting on the problems I gave my mother more than 50 years ago as a (possibly) BP child. Here is my brief account reflecting back to the late 1940s when my mother was at her wits-end with me as her only child. I write this as a 63 year old man who surivived and whose mother survived too!
_____________________
1.In the first 36 years of my life I had many episodes of various kinds of emotional disorientation, themselves of varying lengths and intensities, varying from a euphoric or high mood to a depressed or low mood. Sometimes they affected my day-to-day life severely and negatively and sometimes the affect was insignificant, hardly noticeable. After many experiences on the fringe of a normality that was my usual modus operandi or modus vivendi, as it is said in Latin , on the fringe of what I saw as my general everyday experience of life, an experience that is sometimes called the quotidian by writers, poets and novelists, I was diagnosed as a MD in May 1980 in the process of treatment by a psychiatrist. I had often been on this fringe, as I say above, a borderline zone, a limen as some historians call it, a border territory, a zone between normality and various behavioural extremes and eccentricities from my birth in 1944 to 1980.

The treatment regime in 1980 was lithium carbonate, an antimanic, mood stabilising, the first really successful mood stabilizer for MDs, for an illness that in the 1990s began to be called BPD. My history to that point had been far from smooth and linear as my remarks above indicate. Those thirty-six years had often been bisected, polarised and traumatised. My particular experience of these all-too-common everyday personal emotional extremes away form the norm, from my norm, is only part of my story. Everyone has their story for everyone experiences all sorts of abnormal eccentricities in life, some people of course more than others and some more traumatic and intense than others.

My account of those years from 1944 to 1980 follows. I try in writing about and in summarizing these first 36 years of my life, not to overstate my case, nor to understate it, but give an account of those first 36 years which I refer to here in this general statement as phase one of my bi-polar life.

2. In some ways the inclusion of the names of those doctors who treated me over the years in this first phase and in later phases would personalise this account, but names are not that important and to include them here in this narrative causes confidentiality problems for some readers and for people in my own past who might not want to be mentioned. This is especially true at some internet sites where posts are rejected if names are included in any posting at the site---and so I leave names out. Those whose names I could mention would not be troubled by their inclusion here, not now, not in 2007 after an extensive destigmatization of the disorder in recent years.

3. I certainly appreciate the medical and clinical work of: (a) several of the doctors I went to in my childhood and adolescence, (b) the psychiatrists who have treated me since June of 1968, nearly four decades ago and © many family members, friends, colleagues and associations some known well and others hardly at all, who have helped ride the waves when the disorder raised its head yet again along the way, the road of life.

4. Comments on Childhood and Adolescence: 1944-1963

4.1 As I refer to above, I had some experience of what may well have been BPD in childhood as far back as infancy and at the toddler stage, all of the pre-school years, 0-5, of early childhood development. My mother nearly died in the first month after my birth, the implications of which it is not my intention to go into here, indeed, if there are any significant implications at all. Then onward through middle and late childhood into the puberty cusp of 12 or 13 the BPD features took other forms. The manifested symptoms which have bipolar aspects, at least to a limited degree, or so it could be argued if not proved, seem to me examples of (a) a lack of control of my emotions, (b) a far too intense activity threshold what is now called hyperactivity and © activity with what could be referred to as possessing some/mild bi-polar symptoms. It was not until much later in life, though, that I began to see these aberrant childhood behaviours and new aberrations at puberty and during adolescence as possibly having a link with my future mental illness. It was not until I was 19 in 1963 that any characteristics of this illness became quite clearly apparent and, in retrospect, could be called part of a BPD and given that medical diagnosis, but only in retrospect. At the time no doctor would have given that diagnosis. Even now looking back to the age of 19 in October of 1963 I felt a D so deep it was like ‘a sickness unto death,’ never before experienced, like death not warmed over, as one could say colloquially.

4.2 These behaviours, though, at the age of 19 or any of my behaviour before that last year of my teenage life(1963-1964), did not result in my receiving any medical attention. The first formal diagnosis of schizo-affective disorder(SAD), BPD and/or D did not take place medically until the autumn of 1968 when I was 24. I was given lots of advice from religious to common-sensical: diet, exercise, prayer, vitamins, interesting leisure distractions/interests like horse-riding, watching TV, music, et cetera. After several months to several years, 1963 to 1968, the emotional aberrations disappeared at least for a time. My episodes over those years and in the years to come seemed to exhibit quite separate and distinct tendencies and patterns. Hypomania(H) was always characterized by elation and D was always characterized by varying degrees of very low moods. Such an observation seems now to be so obvious as hardly requiring a mention, but at the core of my experience of this problem was either D or H and the impact of their various symptoms. Within those five years, though, the permutations and combinations of emotional variation were enough to being tears to the eyes of a brass monkey, as my mother used to say and, as I say, looking back in retrospect. It was a miracle I ever got my degree and my teaching qualifications labouring under such emotional chaos from time to time and often, week after continuous week.

In childhood, then, back in the late 1940s, there was no concept of BPD in children. Their misbehaviour was seen as having no medical etiology. So, you are fortunate to live in an age which at least recognizes this medical problem. Your problem is complex and I would advise seeking professional help.-Ron price, Tasmania

This post has been edited by RonPrice: Jul 21 2007, 07:24 AM

Please don't give your kid depacote...it's icky... I understand it must be really difficult dealing with a child like this, but...as I said, depacote's icky...

[font="Arial"][/font][size="2"][/size][color="#0000FF"][/color]
Hi,
My heart goes out to you. Our children are precious and it sounds like you are deeply concerned. I'm sorry I don't personally know anything about the effects of the medications you have mentioned. It sounds like your decision to make an appt. with the doctor to discuss medications and how this would benefit your son is a sound one.
I just read some information from the Canadian Mental health Association that advocates adolescents who are being treated with antidepressants should also be under the care of a psychiatrist. What would happen if you walked into the doctor's office and let them know it was urgent.
(Sorry if there are emoticons on this reply, or anything else I didn't add in. I'm a new member and just figuring out how things work).

Hello Shopping Chick!

I have and/or had all of the symptoms you mentioned, including intense, not to mention irrational, anger. I was dx'd as having schizoaffective disorder. The symptoms for schizoaffective disorder are very close to those of depression, but also include anger. Ask your son's doc about this.

-Bean

Hi (((shoppingchick)))))))

Please read some of this I have in the Portal side of DF...it may give you some insight...
Best of luck to you and your son and please keep on posting and letting us know how you both are doing. Agitated Depression

my daughter suffers from bipolar and severe depression too!! :( We've been to the doctor who prescribed her lots of medicines which did not work and i'm losing hope! :( and now he says to give her parnate.... but i'm getting even more anxious.. what if my daughter doesn't feel well after that? what if??? i've read a lot about parnate on “Link removed by the Administration, per our TOS. Please PM 'lonelyme' for the link to the site.” but there is nothing mentioned about parnate! :( what should i do?

This post has been edited by lambvet: Sep 26 2007, 03:40 AM

QUOTE(lonelyme @ Sep 26 2007, 01:33 AM)

my daughter suffers from bipolar and severe depression too!! :( We've been to the doctor who prescribed her lots of medicines which did not work and i'm losing hope! :( and now he says to give her parnate.... but i'm getting even more anxious.. what if my daughter doesn't feel well after that? what if??? i've read a lot about parnate on “Link removed by the Administration, per our TOS. Please PM 'lonelyme' for the link to the site.” but there is nothing mentioned about parnate! :( what should i do?

Hi 'lonelyme'

Here is some information on Parnate from our "Other Medications" forum. Hope you find the answers you seek there. When you have posted 5 times you can also start a topic in that area to garner responses from other members with experience with Parnate.

BE Peace and BE Love..... wayne

This post has been edited by lambvet: Sep 26 2007, 03:51 AM

lonelyme please do not give up, you're not alone, at lest not here. I have three kids that also suffer from bi-polar and/or depression. My mother had depression and bi-polar, I suffer from depression. So far I have kept my kids off meds, but I believe that the time will come when one or all three will have to be on meds and I'll be here to guide them . I'd like to give you some info and advise from my personal experience, if I may, but please do not consider this as medical advise, just my personal angel. First it took me a while and trial and error to find the right medication that has helped "me" the most. I was having a heck of a time until I became pro-active in my care/health and I pushed just a little bit. I also have a brother who is a M.D., which is of great help and therefore picked his brain. When I was taking meds that I felt where not working for me or the side effects were to much, I took to my doctor asap. As I've told others in this forum, I started to take vitamins, exercise, etc. As far as my kids are concerned, I always talk to them to gauge their emotions and mental state, if I sense something is off kilter, I sit them down and we talk, I asked them how they're feeling, is something troubling them here at home, at school or work. I also make exceptions for their outbursts, which can happen at anytime and for their mood swings. One thing I never do is criticize them and most important I let no one "pick"on them, remember this is something that only you and your family have to deal with and no one else's business. But I strongly believe that the most important thing is to fine a good mental health professional that is open and honest with you and you feel comfortable with. Please, again do not give up, like I said you're not alone, we are all here for you, we empathize with your struggle.
Concerned for you and your daughter, FV.

I'm not sure what course of action to take with my son. I can't figure out if he is majorly depressed, hypomanic, or in a dysphoric mixed state.
________________________________
I write the following in response to your email above. I'm not sure how much help it will be, but I am reflecting on the problems I gave my mother more than 50 years ago as a (possibly) BP child. Here is my brief account reflecting back to the late 1940s when my mother was at her wits-end with me as her only child. I write this as a 63 year old man who surivived and whose mother survived too!
_____________________
1.In the first 36 years of my life I had many episodes of various kinds of emotional disorientation, themselves of varying lengths and intensities, varying from a euphoric or high mood to a depressed or low mood. Sometimes they affected my day-to-day life severely and negatively and sometimes the affect was insignificant, hardly noticeable. After many experiences on the fringe of a normality that was my usual modus operandi or modus vivendi, as it is said in Latin , on the fringe of what I saw as my general everyday experience of life, an experience that is sometimes called the quotidian by writers, poets and novelists, I was diagnosed as a MD in May 1980 in the process of treatment by a psychiatrist. I had often been on this fringe, as I say above, a borderline zone, a limen as some historians call it, a border territory, a zone between normality and various behavioural extremes and eccentricities from my birth in 1944 to 1980.

The treatment regime in 1980 was lithium carbonate, an antimanic, mood stabilising, the first really successful mood stabilizer for MDs, for an illness that in the 1990s began to be called BPD. My history to that point had been far from smooth and linear as my remarks above indicate. Those thirty-six years had often been bisected, polarised and traumatised. My particular experience of these all-too-common everyday personal emotional extremes away form the norm, from my norm, is only part of my story. Everyone has their story for everyone experiences all sorts of abnormal eccentricities in life, some people of course more than others and some more traumatic and intense than others.

My account of those years from 1944 to 1980 follows. I try in writing about and in summarizing these first 36 years of my life, not to overstate my case, nor to understate it, but give an account of those first 36 years which I refer to here in this general statement as phase one of my bi-polar life.

2. In some ways the inclusion of the names of those doctors who treated me over the years in this first phase and in later phases would personalise this account, but names are not that important and to include them here in this narrative causes confidentiality problems for some readers and for people in my own past who might not want to be mentioned. This is especially true at some internet sites where posts are rejected if names are included in any posting at the site---and so I leave names out. Those whose names I could mention would not be troubled by their inclusion here, not now, not in 2007 after an extensive destigmatization of the disorder in recent years.

3. I certainly appreciate the medical and clinical work of: (a) several of the doctors I went to in my childhood and adolescence, (b) the psychiatrists who have treated me since June of 1968, nearly four decades ago and © many family members, friends, colleagues and associations some known well and others hardly at all, who have helped ride the waves when the disorder raised its head yet again along the way, the road of life.

4. Comments on Childhood and Adolescence: 1944-1963

4.1 As I refer to above, I had some experience of what may well have been BPD in childhood as far back as infancy and at the toddler stage, all of the pre-school years, 0-5, of early childhood development. My mother nearly died in the first month after my birth, the implications of which it is not my intention to go into here, indeed, if there are any significant implications at all. Then onward through middle and late childhood into the puberty cusp of 12 or 13 the BPD features took other forms. The manifested symptoms which have bipolar aspects, at least to a limited degree, or so it could be argued if not proved, seem to me examples of (a) a lack of control of my emotions, (b) a far too intense activity threshold what is now called hyperactivity and © activity with what could be referred to as possessing some/mild bi-polar symptoms. It was not until much later in life, though, that I began to see these aberrant childhood behaviours and new aberrations at puberty and during adolescence as possibly having a link with my future mental illness. It was not until I was 19 in 1963 that any characteristics of this illness became quite clearly apparent and, in retrospect, could be called part of a BPD and given that medical diagnosis, but only in retrospect. At the time no doctor would have given that diagnosis. Even now looking back to the age of 19 in October of 1963 I felt a D so deep it was like ‘a sickness unto death,’ never before experienced, like death not warmed over, as one could say colloquially.

4.2 These behaviours, though, at the age of 19 or any of my behaviour before that last year of my teenage life(1963-1964), did not result in my receiving any medical attention. The first formal diagnosis of schizo-affective disorder(SAD), BPD and/or D did not take place medically until the autumn of 1968 when I was 24. I was given lots of advice from religious to common-sensical: diet, exercise, prayer, vitamins, interesting leisure distractions/interests like horse-riding, watching TV, music, et cetera. After several months to several years, 1963 to 1968, the emotional aberrations disappeared at least for a time. My episodes over those years and in the years to come seemed to exhibit quite separate and distinct tendencies and patterns. Hypomania(H) was always characterized by elation and D was always characterized by varying degrees of very low moods. Such an observation seems now to be so obvious as hardly requiring a mention, but at the core of my experience of this problem was either D or H and the impact of their various symptoms. Within those five years, though, the permutations and combinations of emotional variation were enough to being tears to the eyes of a brass monkey, as my mother used to say and, as I say, looking back in retrospect. It was a miracle I ever got my degree and my teaching qualifications labouring under such emotional chaos from time to time and often, week after continuous week.

In childhood, then, back in the late 1940s, there was no concept of BPD in children. Their misbehaviour was seen as having no medical etiology. So, you are fortunate to live in an age which at least recognizes this medical problem. Your problem is complex and I would advise seeking professional help. I could post more of my story here, but it is available on the internet at many other sites if you are interested in a 65 year narrative.-Ron Price, Tasmania